Talk:Lucy Hockings

EVO magazine lap times

Will anyone be adding the times set down by Marc Basseng for EVO magazine?

They ran the Maserati MC12, Pagani Zonda F Clubsport, Koenigsegg CCX, Porsche Carrera GT and Ferrari Enzo with help from Black Falcon.

The times for the cars were:

• MC12 - 7:24.29
• Zonda - 7:24.65
• Enzo - 7:25.21
• CGT - 7:28.71
• CCX - 7:33.55(Homers Oddity (talk) 18:05, 1 October 2008 (UTC))

I was thinking about adding these after i saw yesterday they weren't on here but a quick look to EVO's website shows no trace of the article leaving us nothing to link to to evidence. WE can't just say we read the mag and they were in there... 81.79.208.165 (talk) 19:15, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Yup. Let's find a source we can cite before they go up. That is really just a general rule for all vehicles here. roguegeek (talk·cont) 21:24, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

GT-R

The GT-R times are also "manufacturer claimed". Best Motoring did not conduct the test. They reported on the test conducted by Nissan. Best Motoring is a secondary source (which is good if you read the policy) and Nissan is the primary source. Check out what the difference is and how they are defined WP:PRIMARY. roguegeek (talk·cont) 18:53, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

When your standard is applied, most Rancined cars become the manufacturer claimed. the sports auto is not only necessarily a source tested alone.--Wikiarrangementeditor (talk) 22:30, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Ok, so how would you define the difference? roguegeek (talk·cont) 01:43, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Nissan's claim has been achived by way of cheating. They didn't use stock tires and possibly other problems. Acutual production car was tested and could only come within 25 seconds of Nissan's claim. Source:http://www.autoblog.com/2008/09/30/porsche-accuses-nissan-gt-r-of-cheating-the-ring/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.138.229.136 (talk) 00:35, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

They're just claims that question the time. We've placed the new tests onto the article, but I don't think this is enough to remove the Nissan test. roguegeek (talk·cont) 16:15, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Nissan claims that Porsche is lying, so the Nissan time should stay. JCDenton2052 (talk) 00:51, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Agree. roguegeek (talk·cont) 00:57, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

There's more evidence here. JCDenton2052 (talk) 23:28, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

EVO and GT-R Contriversy

There are multiple observers of the EVO test that have different accounts of the tires and suspension setups that were used on these magazine runs. Obviously one driver on one day taking three different cars and posting three of the top four fastest times ever is enough to raise serious suspicions as to the validity of the runs.

And exactly who are these multiple observers?(Homers Oddity (talk) 14:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC))

Regarding the GT-R, Porsche is now formally claiming that Nissan "cheated" to get these times. Porsche has just run its own back-to-back tests with the Japanese company's GT-R supercar and says it could not get within 25 seconds of Nissan's claimed record time of seven minutes 29 seconds in April. BMW has reported that the GT-R that turned in the 7:29 was actually running 693 hp, which is about 200 hp more than the production car comes with. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Joecooooooool (talk • contribs) 15:52, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Do you have a source you can cite for any of this? roguegeek (talk·cont) 21:52, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Source 1 - http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/Nissan-GT-R/235197/

Source 2 - http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/7259/nissangtr693my0.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by Joecooooooool (talk • contribs) 14:46, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Can you cite source 2 a little more fully? Who published? When? Edition? Author? That kind of stuff. roguegeek (talk·cont) 15:27, 8 October 2008 (UTC)Roundel is BMW's official magazine. This article was published in the July 2008 edition.

"But many commentators are sceptical about the value of comparing Nordschleife times, in case manufacturers have fettled with their car."(Source 1). That exactly is the problem. The type of tyres is very important, and turbocharged cars can easily be tuned to more power. Only the times driven&reported by independent sources, like sportauto magazine, or in races have any meaning. Skyline and Supra were entered in 24h several times, as was the Lexus LF in 2008, and the results were not overwhelming. Recently, in CHC/RCN events on the 20.8km track, the Alzen 997 Turbo did 7:00, and Sabine Schmitz in a GT3 was only a few seconds slower. Very experienced drivers in well prepared race cars, with slicks and wings and all, but with limits on weight and power according to the rules. Being only 20 seconds slower with heavy standard road cars & tyres is, well, interesting. One wonders what magazines and websites are willing to do to produce headlines, and manufactures to get top rankings. I'd like to see Nissan and Lexus and others to enter their "road cars" in races, subject them to scrutineering, and repeat the claimed times. The 2009 24h [1] will accept FIA GT Championship GT3 and SRO GT4 entries, so now almost all cars with big engines are allowed, but subjected to certain limits. Factory entered BMW M3 and Audi R8 are expected to show up, so a good opportunity to beat the Germans on their home soil. -- Matthead  Discuß   14:31, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Nissan R33 Skyline GT-R & Porsche 911 996-type GT3

In the record table, it's stated that the R33 GT-R has done a 7:59. There is no a single source on the internet to confirm it, so I hope you'd remove it. You also stated on Porsche 911 GT3 section that the 996 GT3 has done a 7:56 but you didn't put it on record table. (Challenger64hemi (talk) 07:56, 12 October 2008 (UTC))