Apathetic EP and Talk:Conservative Judaism: Difference between pages

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{{Talkheaderlong}}
{{Infobox Album | <!-- See Wikipedia:WikiProject_Albums -->
{{notaforum}}
| Name = Apathetic EP
{{WikiProject Judaism | class= B | importance= top }}
| Type = EP
{{archives}}
| Artist = [[Relient K]]
== "Heirs to the tradition" ==
| Cover = RelientKApatheticEP.jpg
| Released = {{flagicon|USA}} [[November 8]], [[2005]]
| Recorded = S-S-Studio<br />[[Spring Hill, Tennessee|Spring Hill]], [[Tennessee|TN]]
| Genre = [[Christian rock]]
| Length = 23:34
| Label = [[Gotee Records|Gotee]], [[Capitol Records|Capitol]]
| Producer = [[Mark Lee Townsend]], [[Matt Thiessen]]
| Reviews =
*[[Allmusic]] {{Rating|3|5}} [http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:68q4g4jctv6z~T1 link]
*[[Jesus Freak Hideout]] {{Rating|4.5|5}} [http://jesusfreakhideout.com/cdreviews/ApatheticEP.asp link]
*[[Cross Rhythms]] {{Rating|7|10}} [http://www.crossrhythms.co.uk/products/Relient_K/Apathetic/14235/ link]
| Last album = ''[[Mmhmm]]''<br />(2004)
| This album = '''''Apathetic EP''''' <br />(2005)
| Next album = ''[[Five Score and Seven Years Ago]]''<br />(2007)
}}


If I am not mistaken, Conservative Judaism claims to be "heirs to the tradition" of original Judaism and [[Orthodox Judaism]] is a right-wing perversion. Is this true? If it is, and [[Maimonidies]] was then what would now be referred to as Conservative, how could Conservative Jews not accept that the Torah is a product of direct divine revelation, something Maimonidies asserts? Does Conservative Judaism claim that this assertion is not really his? '''[[User:DRosenbach|<span style="color:#006400">DRosenbach</span>]]''' <sup>([[User_talk:DRosenbach|<span style="color:#006400">Talk</span>]] | [[Special:Contributions/DRosenbach|<span style="color:#006400">Contribs</span>]])</sup> 14:34, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
'''''Apathetic EP''''' is the fifth [[EP]] released by [[Relient K]]. It was released on [[November 8]], [[2005]], and was initially packaged with copies of ''[[Mmhmm]]'', but is also available separately. The EP reached #94 on the Billboard 200.
:: This is a serious question dressed up in alot of confusion. Maimonides is not and never should be considered Conservative or Orthodox. Such designations are purely anachronistic. Maimonidies's code is not considered binding for Consrevative Jews nor is it binding on Orthodox Jews. Maimonidies was put in Herem for his philosophical writings; Orthodox practice is based on Karo's Shulkhan Arukh. As regards his principles of faith -- these were not universally accepted either. There were other formulations before and after Maimonides. Most controversial was his insistence that a person may not beleive that God has a corporeal form. All the Maimonidiean stuff aside - I think Rosenbach is asking a fundamental question regarding Conservative Judaism. How can Conservative Judaism believe itself to be "traditional" when the historicity of long held and "fundamental" beliefs are questioned or sometimes rejected? I think the answer lies in what it means to be "Traditional". The meaning of "tradition" is probably different to those with an orthodix bent versus a conservative bent. Perhaps an expert in Conservative Judaism could help enlighten Mr. Rosenbach.[[User:Guedalia D&#39;Montenegro|Guedalia D&#39;Montenegro]] ([[User talk:Guedalia D&#39;Montenegro|talk]]) 17:09, 25 March 2008 (UTC)


==Track listing==
== "Takhanot" ==
All songs written by [[Matt Thiessen]]


The article says:
#"[[The Truth (Relient K song)|The Truth]]" – 3:18
:"rabbis in our day and age are empowered to issue takhanot (decrees)"
#"Apathetic Way To Be" – 3:21
"Takhanot" is a strange word. "Takhana" (תחנה) means "station". The word "takkana" (תקנה) may be appropriate in this context, but i am not 100% sure. Can anyone please clarify that? --[[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:43, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
#"[[Be My Escape]] (Acoustic)" – 4:02
#"Which To Bury, Us Or The Hatchet (Acoustic)" – 2:44
#"Over Thinking (Acoustic)" – 4:09
#"In Like A Lion (Always Winter)" – 3:43
#"The Thief" – 2:22


== "are not allowed to perform" ==
==Notes and trivia==
{{trivia|date=February 2008}}
* "Apathetic Way to Be" is a bonus track on [[vinyl album|vinyl]] pressings of ''[[Mmhmm]]''.
* [[Matthew Thiessen and the Earthquakes]] (Thiessen's solo side project) performed "The Thief".
* A tentative track listing, posted on the Gotee Records website a month before the CD's release, listed an [[acoustic music|acoustic]] version of "[[Who I Am Hates Who I've Been]]" as an eighth track. This acoustic version later appeared on the song's single.
* Matt Thiessen has said that there is an acoustic version of "Over Thinking" on this EP because they weren't quite happy with the original version on ''[[Two Lefts Don't Make a Right...but Three Do]]''.
* [[Dave Douglas (drummer)|Dave Douglas]] sings solo on the first verse and on the chorus of "Apathetic Way to Be".
* "In Like A Lion (Always Winter)" is based on the book ''[[The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe]]''. It was originally written in case the band was asked to do a song for the same movie's "Music Inspired By" album. "The Truth" was written for the same reason, but the words were changed for that song once the band realized that neither song would make it onto the album. Both songs were then placed on this EP. Matt Thiessen said that "The Truth" was originally about how everyone wouldn't believe the character of Lucy, although she'd never lied to them before, but he then changed it to fit a relationship with God.
* This EP is dedicated to the band's friend, [[Aaron Marrs]], who was lost at sea in January 2005. He had appeared on the cover of the ''[[Employee of the Month EP]]''. Aaron Marrs had helped designed many album covers, some of which were for Relient K.
* Even though the song "The Truth" was never officially released as a single, it still received lots of airplay and stayed #1 on the [[Contemporary Christian music|CCM]] charts for seven consecutive weeks.
* A very early run of the EP contained a very high-pitched ringing sound on most of the songs due to an engineering error relating to the way acoustic guitars were recorded. This was fixed in later runs.
* The song "In Like A Lion (Always Winter)" is included in ''[[Let it Snow, Baby... Let it Reindeer]]'', the new [[Christmas]] album from Relient K.[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_it_Snow%2C_Baby..._Let_it_Reindeer]
* [[Brian Pittman]] had appeared on every release by Relient K up to this point, but his last appearance with the band was a year earlier on the album ''[[Mmhmm]]''. His bass work appeared on the band's 2007 Christmas album ''[[Let it Snow, Baby... Let it Reindeer]]'' however, as the album contains old songs from their 2003 Christmas release ''[[Deck the Halls, Bruise Your Hand]]''.
* A reworked version of 'The Thief' appears on their later album, [[The Bird and the Bee Sides]], entitled 'There Was No Thief'. The latter song has a new extended first half.


The article says:
==Credits==
:"Conservative Rabbis are not allowed to perform intermarriages"
* [[Matt Thiessen]] – [[singer|lead vocals]], [[guitar]], [[piano]], [[organ (music)|organ]], [[bell (instrument)|bells]]
This is unclear. Who can allow or disallow this? Don't the rabbis decide about this themselves in a council, or maybe according to their own conscience?
* [[Matt Hoopes]] – guitar, [[backing vocalist|backing vocals]]
* [[Dave Douglas (drummer)|Dave Douglas]] – [[Drum kit|drums]], backing vocals
* [[John Warne]] – [[bass guitar|bass]], backing vocals
* [[Jonathan Schneck|Jon Schneck]] – guitar, [[banjo]], [[mandolin]], backing vocals


If major organizations of Conservative rabbis have decided to not allow their members to perform intermarriages, it must be stated clearly which organization have decided it. If there is no such decision, but in practice Conservative rabbis do not do it, then the article must say so clearly: "Conservative Rabbis do not perform intermarriages" and a source must be provided.
===Additional personnel===
* [[Mark Lee Townsend]] – [[classical guitar|acoustic guitar]] and [[twelve string guitar]] on "In Like A Lion (Always Winter)"
* Davy Baysinger – additional vocals on "The Truth"
* [[Pete Prevost]] – additional vocals on "The Truth"
* Derek Kern – additional vocals on "The Truth"


Thanks in advance for clarification. --[[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 16:22, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
{{RelientK}}


Hi! [http://www.rabbinicalassembly.org/teshuvot/docs/19861990/sosland_reception.pdf This decision], holding that a Conservative synagogue is prohibitted from hosting a reception or party related to an intermarriage, begins with a mention of a Standard of Rabbinic Practice prohibiting [[Rabbinical Assembly]] members from being present at an intermarriage. In Conservative Judaism, standards, like [[Conservative Halakha|Jewish law]], are set by the [[Committee on Jewish Law and Standards]]. Best, --[[User:Shirahadasha|Shirahadasha]] ([[User talk:Shirahadasha|talk]]) 05:36, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
==References==
{{Reflist}}


== Positive-Historical ==
[[Category:Capitol Records albums]]
[[Category:Christian rock albums]]
[[Category:Gotee Records albums]]
[[Category:Relient K albums]]


Some errors that need to be corrected:
[[fr:Apathetic EP]]

[[ja:アパセティック EP]]
1. "Positive-Historical," which meant that one should have a positive attitude towards accepting Jewish law and tradition" - this is incorrect - It actually refers to a 19th cntury movement called [[positivism]] (see wiki).

2. "Frankel taught that Jewish law was not static, but rather has always developed in response to changing conditions" - I don't think this is a sufficiently nuanced depiction of Frankels view.[[User:Wolf2191|Wolf2191]] ([[User talk:Wolf2191|talk]]) 15:11, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

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"Heirs to the tradition"

If I am not mistaken, Conservative Judaism claims to be "heirs to the tradition" of original Judaism and Orthodox Judaism is a right-wing perversion. Is this true? If it is, and Maimonidies was then what would now be referred to as Conservative, how could Conservative Jews not accept that the Torah is a product of direct divine revelation, something Maimonidies asserts? Does Conservative Judaism claim that this assertion is not really his? DRosenbach (Talk | Contribs) 14:34, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

This is a serious question dressed up in alot of confusion. Maimonides is not and never should be considered Conservative or Orthodox. Such designations are purely anachronistic. Maimonidies's code is not considered binding for Consrevative Jews nor is it binding on Orthodox Jews. Maimonidies was put in Herem for his philosophical writings; Orthodox practice is based on Karo's Shulkhan Arukh. As regards his principles of faith -- these were not universally accepted either. There were other formulations before and after Maimonides. Most controversial was his insistence that a person may not beleive that God has a corporeal form. All the Maimonidiean stuff aside - I think Rosenbach is asking a fundamental question regarding Conservative Judaism. How can Conservative Judaism believe itself to be "traditional" when the historicity of long held and "fundamental" beliefs are questioned or sometimes rejected? I think the answer lies in what it means to be "Traditional". The meaning of "tradition" is probably different to those with an orthodix bent versus a conservative bent. Perhaps an expert in Conservative Judaism could help enlighten Mr. Rosenbach.Guedalia D'Montenegro (talk) 17:09, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

"Takhanot"

The article says:

"rabbis in our day and age are empowered to issue takhanot (decrees)"

"Takhanot" is a strange word. "Takhana" (תחנה) means "station". The word "takkana" (תקנה) may be appropriate in this context, but i am not 100% sure. Can anyone please clarify that? --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 15:43, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

"are not allowed to perform"

The article says:

"Conservative Rabbis are not allowed to perform intermarriages"

This is unclear. Who can allow or disallow this? Don't the rabbis decide about this themselves in a council, or maybe according to their own conscience?

If major organizations of Conservative rabbis have decided to not allow their members to perform intermarriages, it must be stated clearly which organization have decided it. If there is no such decision, but in practice Conservative rabbis do not do it, then the article must say so clearly: "Conservative Rabbis do not perform intermarriages" and a source must be provided.

Thanks in advance for clarification. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 16:22, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Hi! This decision, holding that a Conservative synagogue is prohibitted from hosting a reception or party related to an intermarriage, begins with a mention of a Standard of Rabbinic Practice prohibiting Rabbinical Assembly members from being present at an intermarriage. In Conservative Judaism, standards, like Jewish law, are set by the Committee on Jewish Law and Standards. Best, --Shirahadasha (talk) 05:36, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Positive-Historical

Some errors that need to be corrected:

1. "Positive-Historical," which meant that one should have a positive attitude towards accepting Jewish law and tradition" - this is incorrect - It actually refers to a 19th cntury movement called positivism (see wiki).

2. "Frankel taught that Jewish law was not static, but rather has always developed in response to changing conditions" - I don't think this is a sufficiently nuanced depiction of Frankels view.Wolf2191 (talk) 15:11, 12 October 2008 (UTC)