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{{dablink|This article is about the Australian city; the name may also refer to [[City of Melbourne]] or [[Melbourne city centre]] (also known as the [[Central business district|CBD]]). For other uses, see [[Melbourne (disambiguation)]].}}
{{Infobox Australian Place | type = city
| name = Melbourne |
| state = vic |
| image = Melbourne Infobox Montage.jpg
| caption = '''Top:''' [[City of Melbourne]] skyline and [[Southbank, Victoria|Southbank]], '''Middle left''': [[Federation Square]], '''Middle right:''' [[Flinders Street Station]], '''Bottom:''' [[Melbourne Cricket Ground]].
| pop = 3,806,092
| pop_footnotes = <ref name=2007pop>{{Cite web |url=http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/Lookup/3218.0Main%20Features32006-07?opendocument&tabname=Summary&prodno=3218.0&issue=2006-07&num=&view=#133428242927994956991334282429279950 |title=Regional Population Growth, Australia, 2006-07 |publisher=[[Australian Bureau of Statistics]] |accessdate=2008-03-31}}</ref>
| poprank = 2nd |
| density = 1566
| density_footnotes = (2006)<ref>{{Census 2006 AUS|id=UCL232200|name=Melbourne (Urban Centre/Locality)|accessdate=2008-05-19}}</ref>
| coordinates = {{coord|37|48|49|S|144|57|47|E|type:city_region:AU-VIC|display=inline,title}}
| demonym = Melburnian |
| area = 8806 |
| est = 30 August 1835 |
| county = [[County of Bourke|Bourke]]
| lga = [[Local Government Areas of Victoria#Municipalities of Greater Melbourne|31 Municipalities across Greater Melbourne]]
| stategov = [[:Image:Vic inner regions.jpg|54 electoral districts and regions]]
| fedgov = [[:Image:Map4.gif|23 Divisions]]
| timezone = [[Australian Eastern Standard Time|AEST]]
| utc = +10
| timezone-dst= [[Australian Eastern Daylight Time|AEDT]]
| utc-dst = +11
| location1= [[Adelaide]]
| dist1= 723
| location2= [[Sydney]]
| dist2= 876
| location3= [[Brisbane]]
| dist3= 1658
| location4= [[Perth, Western Australia|Perth]]
| dist4= 3412
| maxtemp = 19.8
| mintemp = 10.2
| rainfall = 646.9
}}
'''Melbourne''' ({{Pron-en-au|ˈmelbən}}<!--<ref>Due to the so-called '[[English-language vowel changes before historic l#Salary-celery merger|salary-celery]]' merger, locals may pronounce Melbourne as {{IPA|[ˈmæl.bən]}}. This so-called merger occurs in varieties of English where the phoneme {{IPA|/e/}} is realised phonetically as {{IPA|[æ]}} before {{IPA|/l/}} and is a feature of English spoken in [[Victoria (Australia)|Victoria]], as compared with the other [[States and territories of Australia|places in Australia]].</ref>-->) is the second [[List of cities in Australia by population|most populous city]] in [[Australia]], with a [[metropolitan area]] population of approximately 3.8 million (2007 estimate).<ref name=2007pop /> Located at the mouth of the [[Yarra River]] and on the northern and eastern shorelines of [[Port Phillip]], Melbourne is the [[List of Australian capital cities|state capital]] of [[Victoria (Australia)|Victoria]]. Melbourne's [[demonym]] is ''Melburnian''.<ref>The variant spelling 'Melbournian' is sometimes found but is considered grammatically incorrect. The term 'Melbournite' is also sometimes used. ''Right Words: A Guide to English Usage in Australia.'' Stephen Murray-Smith. 2nd ed. Ringwood, Vic. Viking, 1989</ref>


Melbourne is a major centre of [[commerce]], [[industry]] and cultural activity.
The city is referred to as Australia's 'sporting and cultural capital'<ref name="melbourneorg">{{cite web|url=http://www.melbourne.org.au/325.0.html|title=Committee for Melbourne- The Sporting Capital|publisher=The Committee for Melbourne |accessdate=2008-09-28}}</ref> and it is home to many of the nation's most significant cultural and sporting events and institutions.
It has been recognised as a [[Global City|gamma world city]] by the [[Loughborough University]] group's 1999 inventory.<ref>{{Cite web |url=http://www.lboro.ac.uk/gawc/rb/rb5.html |title=Research Bulletin 5: A Roster of World Cities |publisher=Globalization and World Cities |first=J.V. |last=Beaverstock |coauthors=Smith, R.G.; Taylor, P.J}}</ref>
Melbourne is notable for its mix of [[Victorian architecture|Victorian]] and [[contemporary architecture]], its extensive [[Trams in Melbourne|tram network]] and Victorian [[Melbourne parks and gardens|parks and gardens]], as well as its diverse, [[multicultural]] society.<ref name="Fairfax ">{{cite web|url=http://150.theage.com.au/view_bestofarticle.asp?straction=update&inttype=1&intid=1797|title=The Age 150th|publisher=Fairfax Media|accessdate=2008-09-28}}</ref>
Melbourne has hosted multiple international conferences and events, including the [[1956 Summer Olympics]] and the [[2006 Commonwealth Games]].
Politically, it was the location of the 1981 [[Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting]] and the [[2006 G20 summit]].


Melbourne was founded by free settlers in 1835, 47 years after the first [[European settlement of Australia]], as a [[pastoral]] settlement situated around the [[Yarra River]].<ref name="settlement"/>
Transformed rapidly into a major [[metropolis]] by the [[Victorian gold rush]] in the 1850s, 'Marvellous Melbourne' became Australia's largest and most important city by 1865 the second largest in the British Empire,<ref name="largeby1865"/> and the tenth largest in the world for a brief moment at the turn of the 20th century. Such rapid growth from nothing was unprecedented at the time. However, Melbourne's growth slowed after 1900 and it was overtaken by [[Sydney]] as the largest city in Australia during the early 20th century.<ref name="overtake">{{cite web
|url=http://www.environment.gov.au/heritage/ahc/publications/commission/books/linking-a-nation/chapter-6.html
|title=Chapter 6: Transport and the Making of Cities, 1850-1970
|work=Linking a Nation: Australia's transport and communications 1788-1970
|year=2003
|author=Dr Robert Lee
|publisher=www.environment.gov.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref>


Melbourne served as the federal seat of government <!-- Do not change this to say Melbourne was the capital. It wasn't the capital. That was reserved for what ultimately became Canberra. Between 1901–1927 Australia had no federal capital-->from the time of the new nation's [[Federation of Australia|federation]] in 1901, until Federal [[Parliament of Australia|Parliament]] moved to the purpose-built capital, [[Canberra]], in 1927.<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://uninews.unimelb.edu.au/articleid_4332.html
|title=When Melbourne was Australia’s capital city
|author=University of Melbourne
|publisher=uninews.unimelb.edu.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref>


== Thank god its friday.. ==
==History==
{{main|History of Melbourne}}
{{seealso|Timeline of Melbourne history}}
{{seealso|History of Victoria}}


And thanks for the backup :) [[User:SirFozzie|SirFozzie]] ([[User talk:SirFozzie|talk]]) 05:01, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
[[Image:Parliament house plans.jpg|thumb|upright|right|250px|Lithograph of the original plans for [[Parliament House, Melbourne]].]]
:Tell me about it. You should see the history of this page. On second thought, I think I might just use those shiny tools to clean it up.... [[User:Risker|Risker]] ([[User talk:Risker#top|talk]]) 05:41, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
[[Image:Melbourne international exhibition 1880.jpg|thumb|upright|right|250px|Lithograph of the [[Royal Exhibition Building]] (now a [[World Heritage site]]) built to host the [[World's Fair]] of 1880.]]
[[Image:Federal Coffee Palace.jpg|thumb|upright|left|The Federal Coffee Palace, a [[temperance hotel]] was the largest and tallest building in Melbourne - one of many built in 1888.]]
[[Image:Landing at melbourne 1840.jpg|thumb|upright|right|250px|Melbourne Landing, 1840; watercolour by W. Liardet (1840).]]
[[Image:Swanston and Flinders St intersection 1927.jpg|thumb|upright|left|[[Flinders Street Station]], intersection of Swanston and Flinders Streets in 1927 when it was the world's busiest passenger station.]]
[[Image:Yarra River railway bridge 1928.jpg|thumb|upright|250px|Melbourne and the Yarra in 1928.]]
[[Image:Orica House.jpg|thumb|upright|[[ICI House]], commenced in 1955, was a powerful symbol of the [[1956 Summer Olympics|Olympic city]]'s [[Modernism|modern]] aspirations.]]
[[Image:Melbourne Skyline and Princes Bridge - Dec 2008.jpg|thumb|upright|right|Melbourne, present day]]
===Foundation and early history===
The area of the [[Yarra River]] and [[Port Phillip]] that is now Melbourne was originally inhabited by the [[Wurundjeri]] people of the [[Kulin]] nation. It is believed that the area was occupied by [[indigenous Australians]] for at least 40,000 years.<ref name="settlement" /> The first British penal colony in the Port Phillip district was established in 1803 on [[Sullivan Bay, Victoria|Sullivan Bay]], but this settlement was abandoned after a few months.<ref>James Button [http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/10/03/1064988393029.html?from=storyrhs Secrets of a forgotten settlement] [[The Age]], 4 October 2003</ref>


== Protection ==
In May and June 1835, the area that is now central and northern Melbourne was explored by [[John Batman]], a leading member of the [[Port Phillip Association]], who negotiated a transaction for {{convert|600000|acre|km2 sqmi|lk=on}} of land from eight Wurundjeri chiefs.<ref name="settlement" /> He selected a site on the northern bank of the Yarra River, declaring that "this will be the place for a village", and returned to [[Launceston, Tasmania|Launceston]] in [[Tasmania]] (then known as [[Van Diemen's Land]]). However, by the time a settlement party from the Association arrived to establish the new village, a separate group led by [[John Pascoe Fawkner]] had already arrived aboard the ''[[Enterprize (1829)|Enterprize]]'' and established a settlement at the same location, on 30 August 1835. The two groups ultimately agreed to share the settlement. [[Batman's Treaty]] with the Aborigines was [[annulled]] by the [[New South Wales]] government (then governing all of eastern mainland Australia), which compensated the Association.<ref name="settlement">{{cite web | url = http://www.melbourne.vic.gov.au/info.cfm?top=52&pg=703 | title = City of Melbourne&nbsp;— History and heritage&nbsp;— Settlement&nbsp;– foundation and surveying | work = City of Melbourne | accessdate = 7 October | accessyear = 2006}}</ref> Although this meant the settlers were now trespassing on Crown land, the government reluctantly accepted the settlers' ''fait accompli'' and allowed the town (known at first by various names, including 'Bearbrass'<ref name="settlement" />) to remain.


I semi'd your talk page due to some vandalism. Hope that's okay. '''[[User:Seresin|seresin]] ( [[User talk:Seresin|¡?]] )''' 03:10, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
In 1836, Governor Bourke declared the city the administrative capital of the [[Port Phillip District]] of New South Wales, and commissioned the first plan for the [[Hoddle Grid]] in 1837.<ref name="COM2">{{cite web|url=http://www.melbourne.vic.gov.au/info.cfm?top=53|title=City of Melbourne&nbsp;— Roads&nbsp;— Introduction|publisher=City of Melbourne|accessdate=2008-09-29}}</ref> Later that year, the settlement was named Melbourne after the [[United Kingdom|British]] [[Prime Minister of the United Kingdom|Prime Minister]] [[William Lamb, 2nd Viscount Melbourne]], who resided in the village of [[Melbourne, Derbyshire|Melbourne]] in [[Derbyshire]]. Melbourne was declared a city by [[letters patent]] of [[Victoria of the United Kingdom|Queen Victoria]], issued on 25 June 1847.<ref name="Miles25">{{cite book|last=Lewis|first=Miles|title=Melbourne the city's history and development|editor=2nd|year=1995|pages=220|language=English}}p25</ref>
:Thanks, Seresin. I'd hoped we'd gotten past that, but it seems I may now become a perennial target. Well, we will see. [[User:Risker|Risker]] ([[User talk:Risker#top|talk]]) 03:27, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
::wholey crap. as a tps, that was a busy time in the old watchlist....--[[User:Rocksanddirt|Rocksanddirt]] ([[User talk:Rocksanddirt|talk]]) 00:38, 9 September 2008 (UTC)


===Victorian gold rush===
The state of Victoria was established as a separate colony in 1851 with Melbourne as its capital. The discovery of [[gold]] in Victoria in the 1850s led to the [[Victorian gold rush]], and the rapid growth of the city, which provided most of [[Service industry|service industries]] and served as the major port for the region. During the optimistic 1850s and 1860s, the construction of many of Melbourne's institutional buildings began, including [[Parliament House, Melbourne|Parliament House]], [[Old Treasury Building, Melbourne|Treasury Buildings]], [[State Library of Victoria|State Library]], [[Supreme Court of Victoria|Supreme Court]], [[University of Melbourne|University]], [[Melbourne GPO|General Post Office]], [[Government House, Melbourne|Government House]] as well as [[St Paul's Cathedral, Melbourne|St Paul's]] and [[St Patrick's Cathedral, Melbourne|St Patrick's]] cathedrals. The city's inner suburbs were planned, linked by [[boulevard]]s and gardens. Melbourne had become a major finance centre, home to several banks and to Australia's first [[stock exchange]] in 1861.<ref name="caslon">{{cite web|url=http://www.caslon.com.au/timeline6.htm|title=Media Business Communication timeline since 1861|publisher=caslon.com.au|accessdate=2008-09-29}}</ref>


By the 1880s, Melbourne's boom escalated. The city had become one of the largest in the [[British Empire]], and reputedly the richest in the world.<ref>Robert B. Cervero, ''The Transit Metropolis: A Global Inquiry'', 1998, Island Press, ISBN 1559635916, p.320</ref> During this prosperous decade, Melbourne hosted five international exhibitions in the large purpose built [[Royal Exhibition Building|Exhibition Building]]. English journalist [[George Augustus Henry Sala]] coined the phrase "Marvellous Melbourne" during an 1885 visit, which stuck long into the [[20th century|twentieth century]]. Growing building activity culminated in the "Land Boom" which in 1888 reached a peak of speculative development fuelled by optimism and escalating property prices. As a result of the boom, high-rise offices, commercial buildings, [[coffee palace]]s, [[terrace house|terrace housing]] and palatial [[mansion]]s proliferated in the city.<ref name="University1">The Land Boomers. By Michael Cannon. Melbourne University Press; New York: Cambridge University Press, 1966</ref> Subsequent development has seen most of the taller CBD buildings (assisted by council fire regulations) and larger mansions from this era [[demolish]]ed, however [[Victorian architecture]] still abounds in Melbourne. This period also saw the expansion of a major radial [[rail transport|rail]] based transport network.<ref name="Miles47">Lewis, Miles ''(Melbourne the city's history and development)'' p47</ref>


==Deletion review for [[:Laurence Baxter]]==
The brash [[boosterism]] which typified Melbourne during this time came to a halt in 1891 when the start of a severe depression hit the city's economy, sending the local finance and property industries into chaos<ref name="University1"/><ref name="localhistories">{{cite web|url=http://www.localhistories.org/melbourne.html|title=A BRIEF HISTORY OF MELBOURNE|last=Lambert|first=Time|publisher=localhistories.org|accessdate=2008-09-29}}</ref> during which 16 small banks and building societies collapsed and 133 limited companies went into liquidation. The Melbourne financial crisis helped trigger the [[Economic history of Australia|Australian economic depression of 1890s]] and the [[Australian banking crisis of 1893]]. The effects of the depression on the city were profound, although it did continue to grow slowly during the early twentieth century.<ref name="Britannica1">{{cite web|url=http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/373808/Melbourne/12674/Growth-of-the-city|title=Melbourne (victoria) - growth of the city|publisher=Encyclopedia Britannica|accessdate=2008-09-29}}</ref><ref name="welovemelbourne">{{cite web|url=http://www.we-love-melbourne.net/Melbourne-history.html|title=Fast Facts on Melbourne History|publisher=we-love-melbourne.net|accessdate=2008-09-29}}</ref>
An editor has asked for a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review#Laurence Baxter|deletion review]] of [[:Laurence Baxter]]. Since you closed the deletion discussion for this article, speedy-deleted it, or were otherwise interested in the article, you might want to participate in the deletion review. [[User:RMHED|RMHED]] ([[User talk:RMHED|talk]]) 21:28, 7 September 2008 (UTC)


== PJ Morton ==
===Federation of Australia===
At the time of Australia's [[Federation of Australia|Federation]] on 1 January 1901, Melbourne was specified as the temporary [[seat of government]]. The first Federal parliament was convened on 9 May 1901 in the Royal Exhibition Building. In 1927, Federal [[Australian Parliament|parliament]] was moved to the [[planned city]] of [[Canberra]], however the [[Governor-General of Australia]] remained at Government House until 1930 and many major national institutions remained in Melbourne well into the 20th Century.<ref name="Miles113">Lewis, Miles ''(Melbourne the city's history and development)'' p113-114</ref>


Hi there, thanks for the feedback. It's nice to be noticed in a good way :) I like to keep an eye on my speedy deletes to see what happens to them. If a bunch get declined I know I'm doing something wrong! [[User:Justinfr|justinfr]] ([[User talk:justinfr|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Justinfr|contribs]]) 22:59, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
Melbourne was the Allied Pacific Headquarters from 1942 to 1944 as General [[Douglas MacArthur]] established Australia as a launch base for Pacific operations. During [[World War II]], Melbourne industries thrived on wartime production and the city became Australia's leading manufacturing centre.


== Your abuse of rollback ==
===Post-war period===
After the war, Melbourne expanded rapidly, with its growth boosted by an influx of [[Immigration to Australia|immigrants]] and the prestige of hosting the [[1956 Summer Olympics|Olympic Games]] in 1956. During the subsequent decades, major freeway development and a significant increase in private car use helped the city to sprawl outwards and urban renewal projects in the inner city significantly modernised the city. Australia's finance and mining booms between 1969 and 1970 proved beneficial to Melbourne, with the headquarters of many of the major companies ([[BHP Billiton|BHP]] and [[Rio Tinto Group|Rio Tinto]], among others and the [[Reserve Bank of Australia]]) based in the city. [[Nauru]]'s booming mineral economy fuelled several ambitious investments in Melbourne such as [[Nauru House]]. Melbourne remained Australia's business and finance capital until the late 1970s, when it began to lose this primacy to [[Sydney]].<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/12/30/1072546531264.html?from=storyrhs
|title=Tell Melbourne it's over, we won
|work=Sydney Morning Herald
|date=31 December 2003
|publisher=smh.com.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref>


Thank you for experimenting with {{#if:|the page [[:{{{1}}}]] on}} Wikipedia{{#if:|&nbsp;as you did with [{{{diff}}} this edit]}}. Your test worked, and it has been [[Help:Reverting|reverted]] or removed. Please use [[Wikipedia:Sandbox|the sandbox]] for any other tests you may want to do. Take a look at the [[Wikipedia:Introduction|welcome page]] to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia.<!-- Template:Test (first level warning) --> [[Special:Contributions/63.46.33.196|63.46.33.196]] ([[User talk:63.46.33.196|talk]]) 06:35, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
As the centre of Australia's "[[rust belt]]", Melbourne experienced the worst of Victoria's economic slump between 1989 to 1992, following the collapse of several of its financial institutions. In 1992 the newly elected [[Jeff Kennett|Kennett]] [[Coalition (Australia)|Coalition]] government began a campaign to revive the economy with an aggressive development campaign of [[public works]] centred on Melbourne and the promotion of the city as a [[tourist destination]] with a focus on major events and [[sports tourism]], attracting the [[Australian Grand Prix]] to the city. Major projects included the [[Melbourne Museum]], [[Federation Square]], the [[Melbourne Exhibition and Convention Centre]], [[Crown Casino]] and [[CityLink]] tollway. Other strategies included the privatisation of some of Melbourne's services including power and public transport, but also a reduction in funding to public services such as health and education.<ref name="Miles206">Lewis, Miles ''(Melbourne the city's history and development)'' p203,205-206</ref>
:(Subsequently that post was redeleted by another editor, as it was clearly trolling.) [[User:Risker|Risker]] ([[User talk:Risker#top|talk]]) 20:05, 10 September 2008 (UTC)


===Present day===
==RfD==
Just an FYI, but I've nominated for deletion a number of sockpuppet category redirects you recently created [[Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2008_September_10#More_Wikipedia_sockpuppet_category_redirects|here]]. [[User:VegaDark|VegaDark]] ([[User talk:VegaDark|talk]]) 22:10, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
Since 1997 Melbourne has maintained significant population and employment growth. There has been substantial international investment in the city's industries and [[Real estate|property market]], and 2006 figures from the [[Australian Bureau of Statistics]] show that since 2000 Melbourne has sustained the highest population increase and [[Economic growth|economic growth rate]] of any Australian capital city.<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.theage.com.au/news/National/Melbournes-population-booms/2005/03/23/1111525222758.html
|title=Melbourne's population booms
|date=24 March 2005
|work=The Age
|publisher=theage.com.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref>


== user page deletion request ==
==Geography==
===Topography===
[[Image:Greater Melbourne Map 4 - May 2008.png|thumb|upright|right|Map of greater Melbourne]]
[[Image:Melbourne skyline.jpg|thumb|upright|right|The view of the [[Melbourne central business district|central business district]] across [[Hobsons Bay]] from [[Williamstown, Victoria|Williamstown]]]]
[[Image:Melbourne At Night from Southbank Bridge.JPG|thumb|upright|[[Melbourne CBD]] seen from [[Southbank, Victoria|Southbank]] with [[Flinders Street Station]] in the foreground.]]


Hi Risker,
Melbourne is located in the south-eastern part of [[mainland]] Australia, within the state of [[Victoria]]<ref name="aboutoz">{{cite web|url=http://www.about-australia.com/victoria/melbourne/|title=Melbourne, Victoria, - About Australia|publisher=About Australia Online Pty. Ltd. ('about-australia.com'|accessdate=2008-09-28}}</ref><ref name="Tourism Victoria">{{cite web|url=http://www.visitmelbourne.com/|title=Melbourne, Victoria, Australia&nbsp;— visitmelbourne.com/|publisher=Tourism Victoria|language=English|accessdate=2008-09-28}}</ref>. Geologically, it is built on the confluence of [[Quaternary]] [[lava flow]]s to the west, [[Silurian]] [[mudstone]]s to the east,<ref>{{cite web
In the past you were so kind as to delete some of my user pages when I asked. Could I ask you now to delete
|url=http://www.monash.vic.gov.au/city/history/section-b.htm
[[User:Outriggr/metadatatest.js]]? Here's the catch: can you delete the user page but not the talk page associated with it? Thanks. (I am putting a script out of its misery for the benefit of all wikipedia, if you must know. :-) –[[User:Outriggr|<font color="#112299">Outriggr]]</font>&nbsp;[[User talk:Outriggr|''§'']] 00:52, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
|title=Detailed History: 1900-1945
:Got it right this time, I think, Outriggr. It should be deleted, and I have left the talk page in place. Poor script, I am sure it is in a better place now. ;-) [[User:Risker|Risker]] ([[User talk:Risker#top|talk]]) 00:59, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
|author=City of Monash
|publisher=www.monash.vic.gov.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref> and [[Holocene]] sand accumulation to the southeast along [[Port Phillip]].


:: That was fast! You better believe it. Thanks, –[[User:Outriggr|<font color="#112299">Outriggr]]</font>&nbsp;[[User talk:Outriggr|''§'']] 01:05, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
Melbourne extends along the [[Yarra River|Yarra]] through the [[Yarra Valley]]<ref name="yarra1">{{cite web|url=http://www.yarrariver.info/|title=Yarra River, Melbourne Australia|publisher=Yarra River Precinct Association, Yarra Tourism Association|accessdate=2008-09-28}}</ref> toward the [[Dandenong Ranges]] and [[Yarra Ranges]] to the east. It extends northward through the undulating bushland valleys of the Yarra's tributaries - [[Moonee Ponds Creek]] (toward Tullamarine Airport), [[Merri Creek]] and [[Plenty River]] to the outer suburban growth corridors of [[Craigieburn, Victoria|Craigieburn]] and [[Whittlesea, Victoria|Whittlesea]]. The city sprawls south-east through [[Dandenong, Victoria|Dandenong]] to the growth corridor of [[Pakenham, Victoria]] towards [[West Gippsland]]. The suburbs sprawl southward through the [[Patterson River]], [[Mornington Peninsula]] and the city of [[Frankston, Victoria|Frankston]] taking in the peaks of [[Olivers Hill, Victoria|Olivers Hill]], [[Mount Martha, Victoria|Mount Martha]] and [[Arthurs Seat, Victoria|Arthurs Seat]], extending along the shores of Port Phillip<ref name="ParksVic">{{cite web|url=http://www.parkweb.vic.gov.au/1park_display.cfm?park=58|title=Port Phillip|publisher=Parks Victoria 2008.|accessdate=2008-09-28}}</ref><ref name="Austtravel">{{cite web|url=http://www.austtravel.com.au/victoria_port_phillip_bay.htm|title=Port Phillip Bay&nbsp;— Victoria|publisher=austtravel.com.au/ - Austtravel|accessdate=2008-09-28}}</ref> as a single [[conurbation]] to reach the exclusive suburb of [[Portsea, Victoria|Portsea]] and [[Point Nepean]]. In the west, it extends along the [[Maribyrnong River]] and its [[tributary|tributaries]] north towards the foothills of the [[Shire of Macedon Ranges|Macedon Ranges]], and along the flat volcanic plain country towards [[Melton, Victoria|Melton]] in the west, [[Werribee]] at the foothills of the [[You Yangs]] [[volcanic]] peaks and [[Geelong]] as part of the greater metropolitan area to the south-west.


Hi Risker, I'm Outriggr's dog's cousin Whiskeydog. Master voted for your RFA largely to obtain a deletion servant ;-), and we are requesting a deletion of my User: and User talk: pages (the latter only if allowed by policy, of course. We aren't that keen on deleting other users' edits, but nevertheless would prefer the talk page deleted). Thanks in advance for your service to wikipedians, including to stubborn doggies. [[User:Whiskeydog|Whiskeydog]] ([[User talk:Whiskeydog|talk]]) 02:35, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
Melbourne's major bayside [[beach]]es are mostly located along the shores of Port Phillip Bay along south eastern suburbs of the city, in areas like [[Port Melbourne]], [[Albert Park, Victoria|Albert Park]], [[St Kilda, Victoria|St Kilda]], [[Elwood, Victoria|Elwood]], [[Brighton, Victoria|Brighton]], [[Sandringham, Victoria|Sandringham]], [[Mentone, Victoria|Mentone]] and [[Frankston, Victoria|Frankston]] although there are beaches at [[Altona, Victoria|Altona]] and [[Williamstown, Victoria|Williamstown]] in the west. The nearest metropolitan [[ocean surface wave|surf]] beaches are located {{convert|85|km|mi|}} away from the CBD in the back-beaches of [[Rye, Victoria|Rye]], [[Sorrento, Victoria|Sorrento]] and [[Portsea, Victoria|Portsea]].<ref name="smhbeach">{{cite web|url=http://www.smh.com.au/news/victoria/lifes-a-beach-in-melbourne/2006/01/02/1136050380503.html|title=Life's a beach in Melbourne|last=Russell|first=Mark|date=2 January 2006 - 2:45PM|publisher=Sydney Morning Herald |accessdate=2008-09-29}}</ref><ref name="epabeach">{{cite web|url=http://epanote2.epa.vic.gov.au/EPA/Publications.nsf/2f1c2625731746aa4a256ce90001cbb5/d494227d97812f42ca2574330000f2c6/$FILE/1240.pdf|title=BEACH REPORT 2007–08|publisher=epa.vic.gov.au|accessdate=2008-09-29}}</ref>
:Hi Whiskeydog, I'll work on this in a few hours when I'm on the better computer - but check your email as well. I wish this didn't mean what I suspect it means. [[User:Risker|Risker]] ([[User talk:Risker#top|talk]]) 02:50, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
:: Jay's cries of "Ditto Risker" echo across the cavernous abyss--where Whiskeydog once frolicked--now a suddenly poignant metaphor for his empty, shattered heart. --[[User:JayHenry|JayHenry]] ([[User talk:JayHenry|talk]]) 03:14, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Well, Jay, I plan to pick up a good supply of doggie biscuits to try and entice our friends back at some point. I am pretty sure they will be appreciated by Whiskeydog and Dogriggr, but perhaps I should think of an alternative for Outriggr. Any suggestions? [''Debates what size MilkBone would be best''] Hmm...these are good... [[User:Risker|Risker]] ([[User talk:Risker#top|talk]]) 03:20, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
:::: Well, our poor whiskeypup has a nasty little hangover and he needs more than coffee and a cold shower to cure it. It's not too much whiskey that he's been forced to swallow--he's had to swallow too many frivolous citation requests, too much meaningless metadata, too many editors who interject opinions on subjects they know nothing about, and too many editors who edit for the rules instead of for the readers because they've forgotten the readers exist. So how to get him--and the silent horde like him--to return is to do more to turn back that crimson tide. But how that's done I don't know. --[[User:JayHenry|JayHenry]] ([[User talk:JayHenry|talk]]) 03:35, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
::::: Nor do I, Jay. I am but one editor, and you another. And yet I keep bumping into editors who feel very much as we do. No, they aren't as active as they once were; the demoralisation has continued. I can recall one time when I was discussing image placement on the main page article, pointing out that on my small screen before I logged on, the pictures were completely out of alignment and interfered with the text. Someone plopped a mysterious guideline in front of me that justified this ridiculous situation - "No, you change your preferences to get the image size right!" Well, duh. And how many casual, non-logged-in readers is that supposed to help? You know, the kind who click on the main page article because it looks interesting...
::::: Intellectually, I can rationalise some of the demands for consistency; it strikes me, however, that many of the metrics are off. Not every page needs an image, and a well written page should be able to qualify for at least a "B" level assessment without one. Infoboxes are useful for some types of articles, but not others, and should never be mandatory. Joopercoopers and Wetman have been working on some alternatives that satisfy both the "Quick Facts" set and the "but it messes up the images/takes up too much space" group. Inline citations are the biggest challenge in my mind. I do agree that contentious information needs to be referenced directly; on the other hand, a huge number of the cite requests I see are for noncontroversial information. Maybe it's just me, but from what I see, the better the article is, the less likely it is to need inline cites. And article assessment! Oh geez, what a debacle that has turned into. Again, it made sense to sort out what articles needed most work, but it seems many wikiprojects are dedicated to assessing but completely useless on the improving part. Conflicting demands from project to project don't help. It's going to get worse, too: some of these projects are reclassifying articles now that we have a "C" class, and I've seen a few pages where the article is rated Start, C, and B by different projects, and even one that was rated both B and Stub! At this stage, as our exponential growth has radically slowed, it's time for people to improve the articles we already have. Putting pretty tags on their talk page doesn't do a darn thing for the reader.
::::: In any case, enough ranting for one night. I shall ensure there is a nice fluffy cushion beside the fireplace for our doggie friends, in the hope that they will return refreshed and reinvigorated, perhaps a few weeks or months from now. To heck with all the meta stuff. It would just be nice to see a page edited by any one of them. Maybe that's what I should ask Santa for... [[User:Risker|Risker]] ([[User talk:Risker#top|talk]]) 04:54, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


===Environment===
== Re: FYI ==
Thank you, although I don't know what good it will do? --<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">[[User:Piotrus|Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus]]|[[User_talk:Piotrus|<font style="color:#7CFC00;background:#006400;"> talk </font>]]</span></sub> 01:45, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
Like many urban environments, Melbourne faces some significant environmental issues.
Melbourne has one of the highest urban footprints in the world due to its low density housing, suburban sprawl, and car dependence due to minimal public transport outside of the inner city.<ref name="Urbanfootprint">{{cite book|last=R |first=Cardew|coauthors=P Fanning|others=J George,|title=Urban Footprints and Stormwater Management: A Council Survey p16-25|year=1998}}</ref> Much of the vegetation within the city are non-native species, most of European origin, and in many cases plays host to [[invasive species]] and noxious weeds.<ref name="weeds">{{cite web|url=http://www.weeds.org.au/target.htm|title=Target Species for Biological Control|publisher=weeds.org.au|accessdate=2008-09-29}}</ref> Significant introduced urban pests include the [[Common Myna]],<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2002/s595922.htm
|title=Scientists declare war on Indian mynah
|work=7.30 Report
|date=2002-07-01:
|publisher=www.abc.net.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref> [[Rock Pigeon]],<ref>[http://www.melbourne.vic.gov.au/opm/bc/CTEE/meetings/CSCaCD_51_20040907.pdf UPDATE ON PIGEON MANAGEMENT ISSUE]</ref> [[Common Starling]], [[Brown Rat]], [[German wasp|European Wasp]],<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.csiro.au/resources/ps1sm.html
|title=The picnickers nightmare: European wasp
|publisher=www.csiro.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref> and [[Red Fox]]. Many outlying suburbs, particularly those in the [[Yarra Valley]] and the hills to the north-east and east, have gone for extended periods without regenerative fires leading to a lack of saplings and undergrowth in urbanised native bushland, the Department of Sustainability and Environment partially addresses this problem by regularly burning off.<ref name="environ">{{cite web|url=http://www.environment.gov.au/biodiversity/publications/series/paper8/paper9.html|title=Fire and Biodiversity: The Effects and Effectiveness of Fire Management|date=Australian government&nbsp;— Department of environment|accessdate=2008-09-29}}</ref><ref name="stateoffire">{{cite book|last=Murray|first=Robert|coauthors=Kate White, P de B Kock|title=State of Fire: A History of Volunteer Firefighting and the Country Fire Authority in Victoria|publisher=Hargreen Publishing|year=1995|pages=339 pages|isbn=0949905631}}</ref> [[National park]]s nearby to the urban area include the [[Mornington Peninsula National Park]], [[Port Phillip Heads Marine National Park]] and [[Point Nepean, Victoria|Point Nepean National Park]] in the south east, [[Organ Pipes National Park]] to the north and [[Dandenong Ranges National Park]] to the east. There are also a number of significant state parks just outside Melbourne.<ref name="parkweb">{{cite web|url=http://www.parkweb.vic.gov.au/1aboutus.cfm|title=About Parks Victoria|publisher=parkweb.vic.gov.au|accessdate=2008-09-29}}</ref>


== Unprotection ==
Responsibility for regulating pollution falls under the jurisdiction of the [[Environmental Protection Agency|EPA]] Victoria and several local councils. [[Air pollution]], by world standards, is classified as being good, however summer and autumn are the worst times of year for atmospheric [[haze]] in the urban area.<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.dar.csiro.au/information/urbanpollution.html
|title=Urban and regional air pollution
|author=CSIRO: Marine and atmospheric research
|publisher=www.dar.csiro.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref><ref name="Age3"/>


Hello. As per the (now archived) [[WP:ANI|AN/I]] discussion [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive473#Unprotection review|Unprotection review]], I have been unprotecting the talk pages of anonymous editors that former admin {{admin|Can't sleep, clown will eat me}} indefinitely protected back in 2006. I see that in early August you decreased the edit permissions on many of them, but I am now going through and removing all protection from these pages. Regardless, I wanted to let you know what was going on now (just in case the talk pages are on your watchlist) and thank you for your unprotection work of five weeks ago. Kudos to you! --[[User:Kralizec!|Kralizec!]] ([[User talk:Kralizec!|talk]]) 15:37, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
The biggest current environmental issue facing Melbourne is the Victorian government project to deepen the channel to Melbourne Ports by dredging Port Phillip Bay. It is subject to controversy and strict regulations among fears that beaches and marine wildlife could be affected by the disturbance of [[heavy metals]] and other industrial sediments.<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/02/05/2155149.htm
|title=Garrett approves Port Phillip Bay dredging
|work=ABC News
|date=5 February 2008
|publisher=www.abc.net.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref><ref name="epabeach"/> Other major pollution problems in Melbourne include levels of bacteria including [[E-coli]] in the [[Yarra River]] and its tributaries caused by septic systems,<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23784623-2862,00.html
|title=E coli running riot in Yarra River
|date=31 May 2008
|work=Herald Sun
|publisher=www.news.com.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref> as well as up to 350,000 [[cigarette]] butts entering the storm water runoff every day.<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.aius.org.au/indicators/sectiontype.cfm?ThemeID=11&SectionTypeID=2
|title=AIUS Indicators
|work=Environmental indicators for Metropolitan Melbourne
|author=Australian Institute of Urban Studies and City of Melbourne
|publisher=www.aius.org.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref> Several programs are being implemented to minimise beach and river pollution.<ref name="litter1">{{cite web|url=http://www.litter.vic.gov.au/resources/documents/Victoria%27s_Litter_Strategy_Sep95.pdf|title=Victoria's Litter reduction Strategy|publisher=litter.vic.gov.au|accessdate=2008-09-29}}</ref><ref name="epabeach"/>


===Climate===
== My RfA ==
{{climate chart|[[Melbourne]]
|14.2|25.8|48
|14.5|25.8|48
|13.2|23.8|50
|10.7|20.3|58
|8.6|16.7|56
|6.9|14|49
|6|13.4|48
|6.6|14.9|50
|7.9|17.2|59
|9.5|19.6|67
|11.1|21.9|60
|12.9|24.2|59
|float=left
|clear=none
|source=Bureau of Meteorology<ref name= >{{cite web
| url = http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/averages/tables/cw_086071.shtml | title = Climate statistics for Australian locations | accessmonthday = Sept 5 | accessyear = 2007 | publisher=
| language = English }}</ref>
}}
Melbourne has a moderate [[oceanic climate]] ([[Köppen climate classification]] ''Cfb'').<ref>Hydrol. Earth Syst. Sci. Discuss., 4, 439–473, 2007, [http://www.copernicus.org/EGU/hess/hessd/4/439/hessd-4-439_p.pdf 'Updated world map of the Koppen-Geiger climate classification system'] accessed 10 March 2007</ref> and is notorious for its changeable weather conditions. This is due in part to the city's flat topography, its situation on [[Port Phillip]] Bay, and the presence of the [[Dandenong Ranges]] to the east, a combination that creates weather systems that often circle the bay.<ref name="Bureau">{{cite web|url=http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/averages/tables/cw_086071.shtml|title=Melbourne Climate statistics|publisher=Australian Government&nbsp;— Bureau of Meteorology |accessdate=2008-09-29}}</ref> The phrase ''"four seasons in one day"'' is part of [[popular culture]] and observed by many visitors to the city.<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.melbourne.vic.gov.au/info.cfm?top=269&pg=2325
|title=Welcome to Melbourne&nbsp;— Welcome to Melbourne&nbsp;— Introduction
|author=City of Melbourne
|publisher=www.melbourne.vic.gov.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref>


{|style="background-color: #E6E6FA; padding: 3px; border: 1px solid #888;"
Melbourne is colder than other mainland Australian capital cities in the winter. The lowest maximum on record is {{convert|4.4|C|F}}, on 4 July 1901.<ref name=snow>{{cite web
|[[Image:Wikipe-tan mopping.png|100px]]
|url=http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/snow-misses-cbd-lunch-appointment/2005/08/10/1123353351466.html
|style="background-color: #def; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #888;"|Thank you for your participation at my RfA, which passed with a count of (166/43/7). I appreciate your comments and in my actions as an '''[[Wikipedia:Administrators|administrator]]''' I will endeavor to act in ways that earn your full confidence, even though I don't have it now. '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 01:29, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
|title=Snow misses CBD lunch appointment&nbsp;— National&nbsp;— theage.com.au
|publisher=theage.com.au
|date=10 August 2005
|wokr=The Age
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref> However, [[snow]]falls are extremely rare: the most recent occurrence of sleet in the CBD was on 25 July 1986 and the most recent snowfalls in the outer eastern suburbs and [[Mount Dandenong]] were on 10 August 2005,<ref>[http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2005/08/10/1123353352628.html Snow falls in Melbourne] Sydney Morning Herald, 10 August 2005 accessed online 7 November 2006</ref> 15 November 2006, 25 December 2006<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,20972481-661,00.html
|title=Santa brings snow to Melbourne
|work= Herald Sun
|date=25 December 2006
|publisher=www.news.com.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref> and 10 August 2008.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.bom.gov.au/announcements/media_releases/vic/20050810.shtml |title=Snow in Victoria - 10 August 2005 |publisher=Bom.gov.au |date= |accessdate=2008-10-10}}</ref> More commonly, Melbourne experiences [[frost]]s and [[fog]] in winter.

During the spring, Melbourne commonly enjoys extended periods of mild weather and clear skies. Melbourne is also known to have extremely hot, and dry summers, with maximum temperatures above {{convert|40|°C|°F}}.<ref name="Bureau"/>

In recorded history, Melbourne has experienced a number of highly unusual weather events and extremes of climate as well as the rare [[natural disaster]].<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/09/01/1062383507154.html
|title=Melbourne: City of woes
|work=The Age
|date=2 September 2003
|publisher=www.theage.com.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref> In 1891, the great flood caused the Yarra to swell to {{convert|305|m|ft|}} in width. In 1897, a great fire destroyed an entire city block between [[Flinders Street, Melbourne|Flinders Street]] and [[Flinders Lane, Melbourne|Flinders Lane]], [[Swanston Street, Melbourne|Swanston Street]] and [[Elizabeth Street, Melbourne|Elizabeth Street]] as well as gutting a {{convert|43|m|ft|sing=on}} office building which was the city's tallest building of the time. In 1908, a heatwave struck Melbourne. On 2 February 1918, the [[Brighton tornado]], an [[Fujita scale|F3]] class and the most intense [[tornado]] to hit a major Australian city struck the bayside suburb of Brighton. In 1934, storms caused widespread damage. On 13 January 1939 Melbourne had its hottest temperature on record, {{convert|45.6|°C|°F}}, during a four-day nationwide [[heat wave]]<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/01/24/1042911549401.html
|title=Record heat and stupidity as Melbourne swelters
|work=The Age
|date=25 January 2003
|publisher=www.theage.com.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref> in which the [[Black Friday (1939)|Black Friday bushfires]] destroyed townships that are now Melbourne suburbs. In 1951 it snowed in both the CBD and suburbs with moderate cover recorded.<ref name=snow /> In February 1972, the CBD was flooded as the natural watercourse of Elizabeth Street became a raging torrent.<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/environ/design/flood.shtml
|title=Melbourne flood&nbsp;— Elizabeth Street, February 1972
|publisher=www.bom.gov.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref> On 8 February 1983, the city was enveloped by a massive [[Melbourne dust storm|dust storm]], which turned day to night. On 16 February in 1983, Melbourne was encircled by an arc of fire as the [[Ash Wednesday fires]] encroached on the city. In 1997, Melbourne was hit by a heatwave with a minimum temperature over a 24 hour period of 28.8. Freak storms struck in [[2003 Melbourne thunderstorm|December 2003]], January 2004 and February 2005. On 9 December 2006 some of the thickest bushfire smoke in recorded history blanketed the city sky.<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/smoke-triggers-alarm-in-city/2006/12/09/1165081187390.html
|title=Smoke triggers alarm in city&nbsp;— National&nbsp;— theage.com.au
|publisher=theage.com.au
|date=9 December 2006
|work=The Age
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref> A heatwave struck in 2008 and bushfires threatened the suburbs.<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/01/10/2135731.htm
|title=Melbourne sizzles in heatwave
|work=ABC News
|date= 10 January 2008
|publisher=www.abc.net.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref><ref name="Bureau"/>

{| class="wikitable" style="margin:0 auto 0 auto; text-align:right;"
|+ '''Other daily elements'''
|-
! &nbsp; !! Jan !! Feb !! Mar !! Apr !! May !! Jun !! Jul !! Aug !! Sep !! Oct !! Nov !! Dec !! Yearly
|-
! Mean number of rain days
| 8.3 || 7.4 || 9.3 || 11.5 || 14.0 || 14.2 || 15.1 || 15.6 || 14.8 || 14.3 || 11.8 || 10.5 || 146.7
|-
! Mean number of clear days
|6.3 || 6.3 || 5.7 || 4.4 || 3.0 || 2.5 || 2.7 || 2.9 || 3.4 || 3.6 || 3.5 || 4.4 || 48.5
|-
! Mean number of cloudy days
|11.2 || 9.7 || 13.4 || 14.9 || 18.0 || 16.8 || 17.2 || 16.8 || 15.7 || 16.4 || 15.1 || 14.2 || 179.5
|-
| colspan="15" style="text-align:center;" | <small>'''Source:''' [http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/averages/tables/cw_086071.shtml Bureau of Meteorology]</small>
|}
|}


==Urban structure==
==WP:CIV==
Hi Risker, I think your [[Wikipedia_talk:Editing_restrictions/Civility_restrictions#Cart_before_the_horse.3F| cart before the horse comment]] is the most sensible one of all given at the civility restriction RfC. I started a discussion at [[Wikipedia_talk:Civility#A_Big_Question:_Does_this_page__make_sense.3F| WP:CIV's talk page]]. Please take a look at the [[User_talk:Newyorkbrad#Civility_debate| note I left at the Newyorkbrad's page]]. I would most appreciate your thoughts on how we can improve the situation. Regards, --[[user:Irpen|Irpen]] 02:41, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
{{seealso|List of heritage listed buildings in Melbourne|Parks and gardens of Melbourne}}
[[Image:Victorian terrace on canterbury road, Middle Park.jpg|thumb|upright|right|Victorian terrace style housing is common in Melbourne's inner suburbs and has been the subject of [[gentrification]]]]
[[Image:South melbourne town hall.jpg|thumb|upright|right|The [[South Melbourne, Victoria|South Melbourne]] [[South Melbourne Town Hall|Town Hall]], one among many surviving civic buildings from the Victorian era]]
The original city (known today as the [[central business district]] or CBD) is laid out in the [[Hoddle Grid]] (dimensions of {{convert|1|by|0.5|mi|km}}), its southern edge fronting onto the Yarra. The city centre is well known for its historic and attractive lanes and arcades (the most notable of which are [[Block Arcade, Melbourne|Block Place]] and [[Royal Arcade, Melbourne|Royal Arcade]]) which contain a variety of shops and cafes.<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.theage.com.au/news/Opinion/Melbournes-love-affair-with-lanes/2004/12/31/1104344983928.html
|title=Melbourne's love affair with lanes&nbsp;— Opinion&nbsp;— www.theage.com.au
|publisher=theage.com.au
|date=10 August 2005
|author=Suzy Freeman-Greene
|work=The Age
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref> The CBD and surrounds contain many historic buildings such as the [[Royal Exhibition Building]], the [[Melbourne Town Hall]] and [[Parliament House, Melbourne|Parliament House]].<ref name="Walking Melbourne">{{cite web|url=http://www.walkingmelbourne.com/|title=Walking Melbourne, Heritage, Architecture, Skyscraper and Buildings Database|publisher=Walking Melbourne|accessdate=2008-09-28}}</ref><ref name="MTG">{{cite web|url=http://www.melbourneaustralia.org/arts-architecture.html|title=Melbourne Architecture|publisher=Melbourne Travel Guide|accessdate=2008-09-28}}</ref>
Although the area is described as the ''centre'', it is not actually the demographic centre of Melbourne at all, due to an [[urban sprawl]] to the south east, the demographic centre being located at Bourne St, [[Glen Iris, Victoria|Glen Iris]].<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/08/04/1028157880515.html
|title=Glen Iris still the heart of city's sprawl
|work=The Age
|date=5 August 2002
|publisher=www.theage.com.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref> Rather, the recognition dates back to the 1930s when many larger buildings were constructed in the outlying border area, several with a characteristically "[[art deco]]" crown—a short tower of cantilevered awnings which serve only a graphical purpose—forming the apex.<ref>{{cite news
| last = Lane
| first = Terry
| coauthors =
| title = Out of the past
| work = [[The Age]]
| publisher = [[Fairfax Media]]
| date = 2008-08-04
| pages = Green Guide (p. 24)
| url =
| accessdate = }}</ref>

Melbourne is typical of Australian capital cities in that after the turn of the 20th century, it expanded with the underlying notion of a 'quarter acre home and [[garden]]' for every family, often referred to locally as the ''[[Australian Dream]]''. Much of [[Metropolitan area|metropolitan]] Melbourne is accordingly characterised by low density sprawl. The provision of an extensive [[railway]] and [[tram]] service in the earlier years of development encouraged this low density development, mostly in radial lines along the [[transport]] corridors.

Melbourne is often referred to as Australia's garden city, and the state of Victoria was once known as ''the garden state''.<ref name="wilmap">{{cite web|url=http://www.wilmap.com.au/vic.html|title="Victoria"|publisher=wilmap.com.au|accessdate=2008-09-29}}</ref><ref name="Age3">{{cite web|url=http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2008/03/10/1205125821732.html|title=Victoria: the garden state or greenhouse capital?|publisher=The Age&nbsp;— Fairfax Media|accessdate=2008-09-29}}</ref><ref name="goway">{{cite web|url=http://www.goway.com/downunder/australia/victoria/|title=Victoria Australia, aka "The Garden State"|publisher=goway.com|accessdate=2008-09-29}}</ref> There is an abundance of [[Melbourne parks and gardens|parks and gardens in Melbourne]],<ref name="COM">{{cite web|url=http://www.melbourne.vic.gov.au/info.cfm?top=25&pg=617|title=City of Melbourne&nbsp;— Parks and Gardens|publisher=City of Melbourne|accessdate=2008-09-28}}</ref> many close to the [[Melbourne Central Business District|CBD]] with a variety of common and rare plant species amid landscaped vistas, pedestrian pathways and tree-lined avenues. There are also many parks in the surrounding suburbs of Melbourne, such as in the municipalities of [[City of Stonnington|Stonnington]], [[City of Boroondara|Boroondara]] and [[City of Port Phillip|Port Phillip]], south east of the CBD.

The extensive area covered by urban Melbourne is formally divided into hundreds of [[suburb]]s (for addressing and postal purposes), and administered as local government areas.<ref name="vicnet">{{cite web|url=http://www.vicnet.net.au/government/localgovt/|title=Vicnet Directory&nbsp;— Local Government|publisher=Vicnet|accessdate=2008-09-29}}</ref>

The Melbourne CBD contains five of the six [[List of tallest buildings in Australia|tallest buildings in Australia]], the tallest being the [[Eureka Tower]].<ref name="Eureka1">{{cite web|url=http://www.eurekatower.com.au/main.cfm|title=Eureka Tower|publisher=Eureka Tower Official|accessdate=2008-09-29}}</ref>

==Culture==
{{main|Culture of Melbourne}}
[[Image:Fed Square August 2007.jpg|thumb|upright|The [[Federation Square]] cultural precinct]]
[[Image:Shrine of Remembrance 1.jpg|thumb|upright|The [[Shrine of Remembrance]] is an important cultural landmark]]
Melbourne is widely known as the Australian cultural and sport capital.<ref name="visitvictoria">{{cite web|url=http://www.visitvictoria.com/displayobject.cfm/objectid.EC23FF99-5AE4-4C56-86BBCE92B6D361CF/|title=About Melbourne|publisher=Tourism Victoria&nbsp;— visitvictoria.com|accessdate=2008-09-28}}</ref><ref name="ioltravel">{{cite web|url=http://www.ioltravel.co.za/article/view/4471038|title=Melbourne is the 'world sports capital'|date=26 June 2008|publisher=ioltravel.co.za|accessdate=2008-09-28}}</ref> It has thrice shared top position<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/02/06/1075854028808.html
|title=Melbourne 'world's top city'
|work=The Age
|date=6 February 2004
|publisher=theage.com.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref> in a survey by ''[[The Economist]]'' of the ''[[World's Most Livable Cities]]'' on the basis of its cultural attributes, [[Melbourne#climate|climate]], [[cost of living]], and social conditions such as [[crime rate]]s and [[health care]], in 2002,<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/10/04/world.cities/
|title=Melbourne, Vancouver top city list
|date=4 October 2002
|publisher=archives.cnn.com
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}} ([[Economist Intelligence Unit]] 2002)</ref> 2004 and 2005.<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.citymayors.com/environment/eiu_bestcities.html
|title=City Mayors: Best cities in the world (EIU)
|publisher=www.citymayors.com
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}} (Economist Intelligence Unit 2005)</ref> In recent years rising property prices have led to Melbourne being named the 36th least affordable city in the world and the second least affordable in Australia.<ref>{{Cite web |url=http://www.citymayors.com/features/cost_survey.html |title=Cost of living&nbsp;— The world's most expensive cities |publisher=City Mayors}}</ref>

The city celebrates a wide variety of annual cultural events, performing arts and architecture. Melbourne is also considered to be Australia's live music capital with a large proportion of successful Australian artists emerging from the Melbourne live music scene. Melbourne has become popular for its street art (see [[Melbourne street art]]) with the ''[[Lonely Planet]]'' guides listing it as a major attraction. The city is also admired as one of the great cities of the Victorian Age (1837-1901) and a vigorous city life intersects with an impressive range of nineteenth- and early twentieth-century buildings.<ref>Peter Fischer and Susan Marsden, ''Vintage Melbourne: beautiful buildings from Melbourne city centre'', East Street Publications, Bowden South Australia 2007</ref>

===Sport===
[[Image:MCG August 2007.jpg|right|thumb|upright|The [[Melbourne Cricket Ground]] is the home of cricket and Australian rules football]]
Melbourne is a notable sporting location as the host city for the [[1956 Summer Olympics]] games,<ref name="IOC ">{{cite web|url=http://www.olympic.org/uk/games/past/index_uk.asp?OLGT=1&OLGY=1956|title=International Olympic Committee - 1956 Olympics|publisher=IOC&nbsp;— International Olympic Committee|accessdate=2008-09-28}}</ref> along with the [[2006 Commonwealth Games]].<ref name="M2006">{{cite web|url=http://www.melbourne2006.com.au/Channels/|title=M2006 - Home|publisher=Melbourne 2006 Commonwealth Games Corporation |accessdate=2008-09-28}}</ref><ref name="cgquote">{{cite web
|url=http://www.cultureandrecreation.gov.au/articles/commonwealthgames/
|title=Commonwealth Games Melbourne 2006
|publisher=www.cultureandrecreation.gov.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref>

In recent years, the city has claimed the SportsBusiness title "World's Ultimate Sports City".<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23463520-2862,00.html
|title=Melbourne victorious again
|work=Herald Sun
|date=1 April 2008
|publisher=www.news.com.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref> The city is home to the [[National Sports Museum]], which until 2006 was located outside the members pavilion at the Melbourne Cricket Ground and reopened in 2008 in the Great Northern Stand.<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.theage.com.au/news/sport/australian-sports-museum-opens-at-mcg/2008/03/05/1204402550094.html
|title=Australian sports museum opens at MCG
|work=The Age
|date=5 March 2008
|author=Geoff Strong
|publisher=theage.com.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref>

[[Australian rules football]] and [[cricket]] are the most popular sports in Melbourne and also the spiritual home of these two sports in Australia and both are mostly played in the same stadia in the city and its suburbs. The first ever official [[cricket]] Test match in Australia was played at the [[Melbourne Cricket Ground]] in March 1877 and the [[Melbourne Cricket Ground]] is the largest cricket ground in the world. The first Australian rules football matches were played in Melbourne in 1858 and the [[Australian Football League]] is headquartered at the [[Telstra Dome]]. Nine of its teams are based in the Melbourne metropolitan area and the five Melbourne AFL matches per week attract an average 40,000 people per game.<ref>[http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24109399-12270,00.html AFL blueprint for third stadium] from the Australian</ref> Additionally, the city annually hosts the [[AFL Grand Final]].

The city is also home to several professional franchises in national competitions including the [[Melbourne Storm]] ([[rugby league]]),<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.melbournestorm.com.au/default.asp?sec=7&ssec=5
|title=Melbourne Storm&nbsp;— The Beginning
|publisher=www.melbournestorm.com.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref> who play in the [[NRL]] competition, [[Melbourne Victory]] ([[Association football]]) who play in the [[A-league]], [[netball]] team [[Melbourne Vixens]] who play in the trans-Tasman trophy [[ANZ Championship]] and [[basketball]] team [[Melbourne Tigers]] who play in the [[National Basketball League (Australia)|National Basketball League]].

Melbourne is home to the three major annual international annual sporting events in the [[Australian Open]] ([[tennis]]),<ref name="Tennisa">{{cite web|url=http://www.australianopen.com/en_AU/index.html|title=Australian Open Tennis Championships|publisher=Tennis Australia|accessdate=2008-09-29}}</ref> [[Melbourne Cup]] ([[horse racing]]),<ref name="MelbourneCup">{{cite web|url=http://www.melbournecup.com/melbourne-cup-carnival/|title=Melbourne Cup Carnival|publisher=The Victoria Racing Club Ltd (VRC) |accessdate=2008-09-29}}</ref> and the [[Australian Grand Prix]] ([[formula 1]]).<ref name="AGPC">{{cite web|url=http://www.grandprix.com.au/|title=Formula 1 Australia Gran Prix|publisher=The Australian Grand Prix Corporation (AGPC) |accessdate=2008-09-29}}</ref>

==Economy==
[[Image:Mel HHY.png|300px|right|thumb|upright|Darker green indicate areas of higher household incomes. Suburbs immediately east of the centre tend to be more affluent]]
[[Image:Melbourne 2008 Panorama.jpg|thumb|right|upright|300px|The [[Hoddle Grid]], Melbourne's original [[Melbourne city centre|Central Business District]]]]
[[Image:Eureka Tower 01.jpg|thumb|right|upright|[[Southbank, Victoria|Southbank]]. One of the adjacent [[urban renewal]] where the expansion of Melbourne's CBD has recently overflowed.]]

Melbourne is home to Australia's busiest [[Port of Melbourne|seaport]] and much of Australia's [[Automaker|automotive industry]], which include [[Ford Motor Company|Ford]] and [[Toyota]] manufacturing facilities, and the [[engine]] manufacturing facility of [[Holden]]. It is home to many other [[manufacturing]] industries, along with being a major business and financial centre.<ref>[http://www.business.vic.gov.au/BUSVIC/INDUSTRY/1001/PC_51081.html Business Victoria]</ref> In 1981, the city hosted the [[Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting]]<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.thecommonwealth.org/Internal/33247/146799/list_of_meetings/|title=Commonwealth Secretariat&nbsp;— List of Meetings|publisher=thecommonwealth.org|accessdate=2008-10-13}}</ref> and in mid-November 2006, the city was host to the [[G20 industrial nations|G20]] summit,<ref name="ohmynews">{{cite web|url=http://english.ohmynews.com/articleview/article_view.asp?menu=c10400&no=328944&rel_no=1|title=Melbourne Prepares for G-20 Summit|publisher=ohmynews.com|accessdate=2008-09-28}}</ref> amid violent protests. International freight is an important industry. The [[Port of Melbourne|city's port]], Australia's largest, handles more than $75 billion in trade every year and 39% of the nation's container trade.<ref name=pom>{{cite web
|url=http://www.bernama.com.my/bernama/v3/news.php?id=267171
|title=Port Of Melbourne Sets Shipping Record
|date=13 June 2007
|work=Malaysian National News Agency
|publisher=www.bernama.com.my
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref><ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.theage.com.au/news/National/Growth-of-Australias-largest-port-essential/2004/12/17/1102787275601.html
|title=Growth of Australia's largest port essential
|work=The Age
|date=18 December 2004
|publisher=theage.com.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref><ref name="goway"/>

Melbourne is also a major technology hub, with an [[Information and Communication Technology|ICT]] industry that employs over 60,000 people (one third of Australia's ICT workforce), has a turnover of $19.8 billion and export revenues of $615 million.

Melbourne retains a significant presence of being a financial centre for Asia-Pacific. Two of the [[Big Four (banks)|big four]] banks, [[National Australia Bank|NAB]] and [[Australia and New Zealand Banking Group|ANZ]], are headquartered in Melbourne. The city has carved out a niche as Australia’s leading centre for [[Superannuation in Australia|superannuation]] (pension) funds, with 40% of the total, and 65% of [[Industry superannuation|industry super-funds]]. Melbourne is also home to the $40 billion-dollar Federal Government [[Future Fund]], and could potentially be home to the world's largest company should the proposed merger between [[BHP Billiton]] and [[Rio Tinto Group]] be carried out.<ref>[http://www.theage.com.au/news/business/bhp-chief-spruiks-up-bid-to-take-over-rio-tinto/2007/11/12/1194766590048.html BHP chief spruiks up bid to take over Rio Tinto], ''The Age'', 13 November 2007</ref>

[[Melbourne tourism|Tourism]] plays an important role in Melbourne's economy, with approximately 7.6 million domestic visitors and 1.88 million international visitors in 2004.<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.dpc.vic.gov.au/domino/Web_Notes/newmedia.nsf/bc348d5912436a9cca256cfc0082d800/55b1f13cef7b139cca256ed80081ebd6!OpenDocument
|title=MELBOURNE AIRPORT PASSENGER FIGURES STRONGEST ON RECORD
|work=Media Release: MINISTER FOR TOURISM
|date=21 July 2004
|publisher=www.dpc.vic.gov.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref> In 2008, Melbourne overtook [[Sydney]] as the nation's leading tourism destination.<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.theage.com.au/news/news/now-sydney-loses-its-tourism-ascendancy/2008/05/16/1211049134065.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
|title=Now Sydney loses its tourism ascendancy
|work=The Age
|date=19 May 2008
|publisher=theage.com.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref>

The city is headquarters for many of Australia's largest corporations, including five of the ten largest in the country (based on revenue)<ref>[http://www.brw.com.au/lists/detail/?listId=5 BRW 1000]</ref> ([[Australia and New Zealand Banking Group|ANZ]], [[BHP Billiton]], the [[National Australia Bank]], [[Rio Tinto Group|Rio Tinto]] and [[Telstra]]); as well as such representative bodies and thinktanks as the [[Business Council of Australia]] and the [[Australian Council of Trade Unions]].

Melbourne rated 34th within the top 50 financial cities as surveyed by the Mastercard Worldwide Centers of Commerce Index (2007),<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.mastercard.com/us/company/en/wcoc/pdf/index_2007_us.pdf |title=MW-IndexRpt-CoComm FA.indd<!-- Bot generated title --> |date= |format=PDF |accessdate=2008-10-10}}</ref> between Barcelona and Geneva, and second only to Sydney (14th) in Australia.

Most recent major infrastructure projects, such as the redevelopment of [[Southern Cross Station]] (formerly Spencer Street Station),<ref name="doi123232">{{cite web|url=http://www.doi.vic.gov.au/Doi/Internet/transport.nsf/AllDocs/51A6FE0B0EA5C80BCA2571F800066647?OpenDocument|title=Southern Cross Station project|publisher=doi.vic.gov.au/|accessdate=2008-09-29}}</ref> have been centred around the [[2006 Commonwealth Games]], which were held in the city from 15 March to 26 March 2006. The centrepiece of the Commonwealth Games projects was the redevelopment of the [[Melbourne Cricket Ground]], the stadium used for the opening and closing ceremonies of the Games. The project involved rebuilding the northern half of the stadium and laying a temporary athletics track at a cost of [[AUD|$]]434 million.<ref name="ozstad">{{cite web|url=http://www.austadiums.com/stadiums/redevelopment/mcg/|title=»Melbourne Cricket Ground »Redevelopment|publisher=AustralianStadiums.com|accessdate=2008-09-29}}</ref>

Melbourne has also been attracting an increasing share of domestic and international conference markets. Construction began in February 2006 of a [[AUD|$]]1 billion 5000-seat international convention centre, Hilton Hotel and commercial precinct adjacent to the [[Melbourne Exhibition and Convention Centre]] to link development along the [[Yarra River]] with the [[Southbank, Victoria|Southbank precinct]] and multi-billion dollar [[Melbourne Docklands|Docklands]] redevelopment.<ref>[http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/councillors-furious-about-convention-centre-deal/2006/04/30/1146335610761.html Councillors furious about convention centre deal], ''The Age'', 1 May 2006</ref>

==Demographics==
[[Image:Melbourne CoB dots.png|thumb|upright|300px|left|Demographic map of Melbourne. Each dot indicates 100 persons born in Britain (dark blue), Greece (light blue), Mainland China (red), India (brown), Vietnam (yellow), Turkey (purple), Italy (light green) and (former states of) Yugoslavia (dark green). Based on 2006 Census data]]

{| class="infobox" align=right
|colspan="2"|'''Significant overseas born populations'''<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.censusdata.abs.gov.au/ABSNavigation/prenav/ViewData?action=404&documentproductno=205&documenttype=Details&order=1&tabname=Details&areacode=205&issue=2006&producttype=Census%20Tables&javascript=true&textversion=false&navmapdisplayed=true&breadcrumb=LPTD&&collection=Census&period=2006&productlabel=Country%20of%20Birth%20of%20Person%20by%20Year%20of%20Arrival%20in%20Australia&producttype=Census%20Tables&method=Place%20of%20Usual%20Residence&topic=Migrants&
|title=2006 Census Tables : Country of Birth of Person by Year of Arrival in Australia&nbsp;— Melbourne
|publisher=[[Australian Bureau of Statistics]]
|accessdate=2008-04-16}}</ref>
|-
! Place of Birth || Population (2006)
|-
|United Kingdom ||156,457
|-
|Italy ||73,801
|-
|[[Vietnam]] ||57,926
|-
|[[People's Republic of China]] ||54,726
|-
|New Zealand ||52,453
|-
|[[Greece]] ||52,279
|-
|India ||50,686
|-
|[[Sri Lanka]] ||30,594
|-
|[[Malaysia]] ||29,174
|-
|[[Philippines]] ||24,568
|-
|Germany ||21,182
|-
|[[Malta]] ||18,951
|-
|South Africa ||17,317
|-
|[[Republic of Macedonia|Rep. Macedonia]] ||17,287
|-
|[[Hong Kong]] ||16,917
|-
|[[Poland]] ||16,439
|-
|[[Croatia]] ||15,367
|-
|[[Lebanon]] ||14,645
|-
|[[Netherlands]] ||14,581
|-
|[[Turkey]] ||14,124
|}
Melbourne is a diverse and [[multicultural]] city.<ref name="bahai2">{{cite web|url=http://news.bahai.org/story/654|title=Melburnians turn to ‘Soul Food’ for nourishment|date=28 September 2008|publisher=Baha'i World News Service, Israel|accessdate=2008-10-02}}</ref> Almost a quarter of Victoria's population was born overseas, and the city is home to residents from 233 countries, who speak over 180 languages and dialects and follow 116 religious faiths. Melbourne has the second largest Asian population in Australia, which includes the largest [[Vietnamese people|Vietnamese]], Indian and [[Sri Lanka]]n communities in the country.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.vicnet.net.au/community/ethnic/indian/|title=Vicnet Directory Indian Community|publisher=Vicnet |accessdate=2008-10-02}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.vicnet.net.au/community/ethnic/srilankan/|title=Vicnet Directory Sri Lankan Community|publisher=Vicnet|accessdate=2008-10-02}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.yarranet.net.au/~acacia/vietcom.htm|title=Vietnamese Community Directory|publisher=yarranet.net.au|accessdate=2008-10-02}}</ref>

The earliest inhabitants of the broad area that later became known as Melbourne were [[Indigenous Australians]]&nbsp;— specifically, the Bunurong, Wurundjeri and Wathaurong peoples. Melbourne is still a centre of Aboriginal life&nbsp;— consisting of local groups and indigenes from other parts of Australia&nbsp;— with the Aboriginal community in the city numbering over 20,000 persons (0.6% of the population).<ref>[http://home.vicnet.net.au/~samliv/docs/SAMLIV%20Draft%20Part%201%20Sectn%202.pdf VicNet&nbsp;— Strategy for Aboriginal Managed Land in Victoria: Draft Report [Part 1-Section 2]</ref>

The first European settlers in Melbourne were [[British people|British]] and [[Irish people|Irish]]. These two groups accounted for nearly all arrivals before the gold rush, and supplied the predominant number of [[Immigration to Australia|immigrants]] to the city until the [[Second World War]]. Melbourne was transformed by the 1850s [[Australian gold rush|gold rush]]; within months of the discovery of [[gold]] in August 1852, the city's population had increased by nearly three-quarters, from 25,000 to 40,000 inhabitants.<ref name="gold1850">{{cite web
|url=http://sbs.com.au/sbsmain/gold/story.html?storyid=49
|title=Gold!
|author=Victorian Cultural Collaboration
|publisher=sbs.com.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref> Thereafter, growth was exponential and by 1865, Melbourne had overtaken Sydney as Australia's most populous city.<ref name="largeby1865">[http://www.atse.org.au/index.php?sectionid=289 The Snowy Mountains Scheme and Multicultural Australia]</ref> Large numbers of [[Chinese Australian|Chinese]], [[German Australian|German]] and [[American Australian|United States]] nationals were to be found on the goldfields and subsequently in Melbourne. The various nationalities involved in the [[Eureka Stockade]] revolt nearby give some indication of the migration flows in the second half of the nineteenth century.<ref name="annear">{{cite book|last=Annear|first=Robyn|title=Nothing But Gold|publisher=The Text Publishing Company|year=1999}}</ref>

===Post war immigration===
[[Image:Melbourne China Town.jpg|thumb|upright|left|[[Chinatown, Melbourne|Melbourne's Chinatown]], established in 1854, is the oldest in Australia and one of the oldest worldwide]]
In the aftermath of the [[Second World War]], Melbourne experienced unprecedented inflows from [[Mediterranean Europe]], primarily [[Greece]] and Italy, but also [[Cyprus]] and [[Turkey]]. According to the 2001 Census, there were 151,785 ethnic Greeks in the metropolitan area.<ref>[http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/subscriber.nsf/log?openagent&20302_2001.pdf&2030.2&Publication&FDC769F10D49F074CA256CC900833D7D&0&2001&11.02.2003&Latest 2001 Social Atlas for Melbourne abs.gov.au]</ref> 47% of all [[Greek Australian]]s live in Melbourne.<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.melbourne.vic.gov.au/info.cfm?top=100&pg=917
|title=Multicultural communities&nbsp;— Greeks
|author=City of Melbourne
|publisher=www.melbourne.vic.gov.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref> Ethnic Chinese and Vietnamese also maintain significant presences.

Melbourne enjoys comparatively high levels of migrant integration to the other capital cities, however some [[List of ethnic groups|ethnic groups]] are associated with the suburb in which they first settled&nbsp;– [[Italian People|Italians]] ([[Carlton, Victoria|Carlton]] and [[Brunswick, Victoria|Brunswick]]); [[Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia|Macedonians]] ([[Thomastown, Victoria|Thomastown]]); Indians and [[Sri Lanka]]ns (south eastern [[suburbs]] such as [[Hampton Park]] and [[Narre Warren]]); [[Greeks]] ([[Oakleigh, Victoria|Oakleigh]], [[Northcote, Victoria|Northcote]] and [[Hughesdale, Victoria|Hughesdale]]); [[Vietnamese people|Vietnamese]] ([[Richmond, Victoria|Richmond]], [[Springvale, Victoria|Springvale]] and [[Footscray, Victoria|Footscray]]); [[Maltese people|Maltese]] ([[Sunshine, Victoria|Sunshine]]); [[Bosnians]], [[Serbs]] and [[Croats]] ([[St Albans, Victoria|St Albans]]); [[Turkish people|Turks]] ([[Coburg, Victoria|Coburg]]); [[Lebanese people|Lebanese]] ([[Broadmeadows, Victoria|Broadmeadows]]); [[Russian people|Russians]] ([[Carnegie, Victoria|Carnegie]]); [[Spanish people|Spaniards]] ([[Fitzroy, Victoria|Fitzroy]]); [[North Africa]]ns ([[Flemington, Victoria|Flemington]]); [[Sub-Saharan Africa]]ns ([[Noble Park]]). The cities of [[City of Greater Dandenong|Dandenong]], [[City of Monash|Monash]], [[City of Casey|Casey]] and [[City of Whittlesea|Whittlesea]] on Melbourne's fringe are particular current migrant hotspots.<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/07/21/1026898944754.html
|title=The streets of our town
|work=The Age
|date=22 July 2002
|publisher=www.theage.com.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref>

Melbourne exceeds the national average in terms of proportion of residents born overseas: 34.8% compared to a national average of 23.1%. In concordance with national data, [[UK|Britain]] is the most commonly reported country of birth, with 4.7 %, followed by Italy (2.4%), [[Greece]] (1.9 %) and then China (1.3 %). Melbourne also features substantial [[Vietnam]]ese, Indian and [[Sri Lanka]]n-born communities, in addition to recent South African and [[Sudanese]] influxes.

Over two-thirds of people in Melbourne speak only English at home (68.8 %). Italian is the second most common home language (4.0 %), with [[Greek language|Greek]] third and [[Chinese languages|Chinese]] fourth, each with over 100,000 speakers.<ref name="egov123211">{{cite web|url=http://www.egov.vic.gov.au/index.php?env=-innews/detail:m1497-1-1-8-s-0:n-1582-1-0--|title=Demographic Profiling of Victorian Government Website Visitors 2007|publisher=egov.vic.gov.au|accessdate=2008-10-02}}</ref>

===Religion===
[[Image:St Patrick's Cathedral-Gothic Revival Style (Central Tower).jpg|thumb|upright|[[St Patrick's Cathedral, Melbourne]] (the foundation stone was laid in 1858)]]
The 2006 Census records show some 28.3% (1,018,113) of Melbourne residents list their religious affiliation as [[Catholic]].<ref name=qs>{{cite web
|url=http://www.censusdata.abs.gov.au/ABSNavigation/prenav/ViewData?&action=401&tabname=Summary&areacode=205&issue=2006&producttype=QuickStats&textversion=true&navmapdisplayed=true&&breadcrumb=PLD&
|title=QuickStats : Melbourne (Statistical Division)
|work=2006 Census
|publisher=www.censusdata.abs.gov.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref> The next highest response was [[Irreligion|No Religion]] (20.0%, 717,717), [[Anglican]] (12.1%, 433,546), [[Eastern Orthodox]] (5.9%, 212,887) and the [[Uniting Church]] (4.0%, 143,552).<ref name=qs />
[[Buddhism|Buddhists]], [[Islam|Muslims]], [[Judaism|Jews]] and [[Hinduism|Hindus]] collectively account for 7.5% of the population.
====Judaism====
Four out of ten [[History of the Jews in Australia|Australian Jews]] call Melbourne home. The city is also residence to the largest number of [[Holocaust]] survivors of any Australian city,<ref>[http://www.lib.latrobe.edu.au/AHR/archive/Issue-December-2001/freiberg.html Holocaust Remembrance in Australian Jewish Communities] Judith Berman</ref> indeed the highest per capita concentration outside [[Israel]] itself.<ref>{{cite web | url = http://home.iprimus.com.au/kadimah/k90.htm | title = The Kadimah & Yiddish Melbourne in the 20th Century | work = Jewish Cultural Centre and National Library: "Kadima" | accessdate 9 January | accessyear = 2007}}</ref> To service the needs of the vibrant Jewish community, Melbourne's [[Judaism|Jewry]] have established multiple [[synagogue]]s, which today number over 30,<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.bh.org.il/Communities/Archive/Melbourne.asp|title=Jewish Community of Melbourne, Australia|publisher=Beth Hatefutsoth&nbsp;— The Nahum Goldmann Museum of the Jewish Diaspora.|accessdate=2008-10-05}}</ref> along with a [[Australian Jewish News|local Jewish newspaper]].<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.ajn.com.au/news/news.asp?catID=2|title=Welcome to the AJN!|publisher=The Australian Jewish News|accessdate=2008-10-05}}</ref> Melbourne's largest [[university]] - [[Monash University]] is named after prominent Jewish general and statesman, [[John Monash]].<ref>{{cite book|last=Perry|first=Roland|title=Monash: The Outsider who Won A War|publisher=Random House|year=2004}}</ref>

====Christianity====
64% of Melburnians consider themselves Christians. The city has two large [[cathedral]]s - [[St Patrick's Cathedral, Melbourne|St Patrick's]] (Roman Catholic),<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.stpatrickscathedral.org.au/|title=St Patrick's Cathedral |publisher=Catholic Communication, Melbourne|accessdate=2008-10-05}}</ref> and [[St Paul's Cathedral, Melbourne|St Paul's]] (Anglican).<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.stpaulscathedral.org.au/|title=St. Paul's Cathedral, Melbourne|publisher=anglican.com.au|accessdate=2008-10-05}}</ref>
Both were built in the [[Victorian era]] and are of considerable heritage significance as major landmarks of the city.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.walkingmelbourne.com/period_info2.html?period=Victorian|title=Victorian Architectural Period&nbsp;— Melbourne|publisher=walkingmelbourne.com|accessdate=2008-10-05}}</ref>

====Islam====
The 300,000 [[Islam|Muslims]] that call Melbourne home, are noted for their diversity&nbsp;— from more than 60 countries with wildly disparate cultures.<ref name="MuslimMElbourne">{{cite web|url=http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/inside-muslim-melbourne/2005/08/26/1124563027173.html|title=Inside Muslim Melbourne|date=27 August 2005|publisher=theage.com.au|accessdate=2008-10-05}}</ref>
However, Melbourne's relationship with the Muslim community is somewhat apprehensive, due to the perceived [[extremism]] of the wider Islamic community, foiled Melburnian [[terrorism|terrorist]] rings<ref name="Terrorist">{{cite web|url=http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2008/s2187859.htm|title=Terrorist rumours went through Muslim community, Melbourne court told|publisher=abc.net.au|accessdate=2008-10-05}}</ref> and controversy surrounding a number of high ranking [[Mufti]]s.<ref name="Nasdaq">{{cite web|url=http://www.nasdaq.com/aspxcontent/NewsStory.aspx?cpath=20080915%5CACQDJON200809150046DOWJONESDJONLINE000012.htm&&mypage=newsheadlines&title=UPDATE:%20Australia%20Muslim%20Cleric%20Convicted%20For%20Terrorist%20Plots|title=UPDATE: Australia Muslim Cleric Convicted For Terrorist Plots|publisher=Nasdaq.com|accessdate=2008-10-05}}</ref><ref name="alarabiya">{{cite web|url=http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2008/09/15/56603.html|title=Aussie Muslim cleric convicted of terrorism|publisher=alarabiya.net|accessdate=2008-10-05}}</ref>
Since the [[September 11 attacks|World trade center attacks]] and the [[Bali bombings]], [[Islam]]s place in Melbourne and indeed, Australian society has been the subject of much public debate.<ref name="muslimAustralians">[http://www.aph.gov.au/library/INTGUIDE/sp/muslim_australians.htm Muslim Australians - E-Brief] aph.gov.au</ref><ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.afp.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/64549/28_29_Building_a_relationship.pdf|title=Building a relationship with Melbourne's Islamic Community|publisher=afp.gov.au|accessdate=2008-10-05}}</ref>
The role of Islam and Muslims in terrorism and extremism are discussed in the media. A number of forums and meetings have been held about the problem of extremist groups or ideology within the Australian Islamic community.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,16256934-1243,00.html|title=Muslims' youth summit plan|last=Wright|first=Lincoln|date=14 August 2005 12:00am|publisher=news.com.au|accessdate=2008-10-13}}</ref><ref>{{cite news|url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2331947.stm|title=Sydney's Muslims fear revenge attacks|last=Hughes|first=Dominic|date=Wednesday, 16 October 2002, 03:07 GMT 04:07 UK|publisher=BBC|accessdate=2008-10-13}}</ref>

====Hinduism====
The majority of Australian Hindus live along the [[Geography of Australia|Eastern Coast]] of [[Australia]] and are mainly located in Melbourne and [[Sydney]]. As a community Hindus live relatively peacefully and in harmony with the local populations. They have established a number of [[temple]]s and other religious meeting places and celebrate most [[Hindu festivals]].<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.newcomerstooz.info/hindu-temples-in-melbourne.htm|title=Hindu Temples in Melbourne, VIC|publisher=newcomerstooz.info|accessdate=2008-10-05}}</ref>

====Buddhism====
In 1848, the first large group of [[Buddhist]]s to come to [[Australia]], came as part of [[Australian gold rush|gold rush]] - most of whom stayed briefly for prospecting purposes rather than mass migration. In 1856, a temple was established in [[South Melbourne, Victoria|South Melbourne]] by the secular [[Sze Yap]] group. The first specific Australian Buddhist group, the Buddhist Study Group Melbourne, was formed in Melbourne in 1938, however it collapsed during the [[Second World War]].<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.melbournebuddhistcentre.org/|title=Melbourne Buddhist Centre |publisher=melbournebuddhistcentre.org|accessdate=2008-10-05}}</ref>

====Irreligion====
Melbourne and indeed Australia are highly [[Secularity|secular]]ised, with the proportion of people identifying themselves as [[Christianity|Christian]] declining from 96% in 1901 to 64% in 2006 and those who did not state their religion or declared no religion rising from 2% to over 30% over the same period.<ref name = "ABS 2008 Yr Bk">{{cite web|url = http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/7d12b0f6763c78caca257061001cc588/636F496B2B943F12CA2573D200109DA9?opendocument |work = 1301.0 - Year Book Australia, 2008 |title = Cultural diversity |date = 2008-02-07 | publisher = Australian Bureau of Statistics|accessdate = 2008-07-15}}</ref>

===Population density and growth===
{| class="wikitable" style="float:left; clear:right; margin:10px; text-size:60%; text-align:right;"
|-
!align=center colspan=3| '''Melbourne <br />population by year'''
|-
|1836 || 177 ||
|-
|1854 || 123,000|| (gold rush)
|-
|1880 || 280,000|| (property boom)
|-
|1956 || 1,500,000 ||
|-
|1981 || 2,806,000 ||
|-
|1991 || 3,156,700 || (economic slump)
|-
|2001 || 3,366,542 ||
|-
|2006 || 3,744,373 ||
|-
|2011 || 4,062,290<ref name=popprojections>{{Cite web |url=http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/DetailsPage/3222.02006%20to%202101?OpenDocument |title=Population Projections, Australia, 2006 to 2101 |publisher=[[Australian Bureau of Statistics]] |accessdate=2008-09-04}}</ref> || (projected)
|-
|2021 || 4,712,456<ref name=popprojections /> || (projected)
|-
|2031 || 5,355,242<ref name=popprojections /> || (projected)
|}
{| class="wikitable" style="float:right; clear:right; margin:10px; text-size:60%; text-align:right;"
|-
!align=center colspan=3| '''Melbourne <br />urban area density<br />(people/[[hectare|ha]])'''
|-
|1951 || 23.4<ref>{{cite book|title=Melbourne metropolitan planning scheme 1954 : planning scheme ordinance p23|editor=MMBW|publisher=Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works|url=http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/124476?lookfor=&offset=&max=290}}</ref>
|-
|1961 || 21.4<ref name="http://www.census.abs.gov.au/Websitedbs/A3220106.nsf/d57894183e061d404b25616a0004bea7/04346051741794c94b2562ea0015eaba!OpenDocument">{{cite journal|title=Australian Bureau of Statistics 1961|publisher=Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS)|location=Found in University and State libraries and some public libraries|language=english}}</ref>
|-
|1971 || 18.1<ref>Australian Bureau of Statistics 1971</ref>
|-
|1981 || 15.9<ref>{{cite book|last=Maher|first=C.A.|title=Melbourne -- a social atlas [cartographic material]|editor=Division of National Mapping and the Australian Bureau of Statistics |publisher=Canberra : Division of National Mapping and Australian Bureau of Statistics in association with the Institute of Australian Geographers, 1984.|edition=Atlas of population and housing, 1981 census ; |volume=3|isbn=0642516340|url=http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/1233002}}</ref>
|-
|1986 || 16.05<ref>Social Atlas/"Supermap" Census Data, 1986</ref>
|-
|1991 || 16.8<ref>Social Atlas/"Supermap" Census Data, 1991</ref>
|-
|1996 || 17.9<ref>{{cite book|title=Report of the Advisory Committee on the Victoria planning provisions (VPPs) / Minister for and Local Government |editor=Victoria. Dept. of Infrastructure |publisher=[Melbourne] : Minister for Planning and Local Government, 1998}}</ref>
|-
|1999 || 17.05<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.demographia.com/db-melbourne-dense.htm
|title=Melbourne Urbanized Area: Statistical Local Areas by Population Density: 1999
|publisher=www.demographia.com
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref>
|-
|2001 || 15.9<ref>[http://www.vcec.vic.gov.au/CA256EAF001C7B21/WebObj/MelbourneSD/$File/Melbourne%20SD.pdf Regional Economic Development in Victoria: Melbourne Statistical Division]</ref>
|}

Although Victoria's net interstate migration has fluctuated, the Melbourne statistical division has grown by approximately 50,000 people a year since 2003. Melbourne has now attracted the largest proportion of international overseas immigrants (48,000) finding it outpacing Sydney's international migrant intake, along with having strong interstate migration from Sydney and other capitals due to more affordable housing and cost of living, which have been two recent key factors driving Melbourne's growth.<ref>[http://elecpress.monash.edu.au/pnp/free/pnpv7n1/v7n1_6oleary.pdf The Resurgence of Marvellous Melbourne Trends in Population Distribution in Victoria, 1991-1996]</ref><ref>Article by John O'Leary. Monash University Press</ref> In recent years, [[Shire of Melton|Melton]], [[City of Wyndham|Wyndham]] and [[City of Casey|Casey]], part of the Melbourne statistical division, have recorded the highest growth rate of all [[Local Government Areas in Australia|local government area]]s in Australia. Despite a demographic study stating that Melbourne could overtake Sydney in population by 2028,<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22741975-601,00.html
|title=Population pushing Melbourne to top
|work= The Australian
|date=12 November 2007
|publisher=www.theaustralian.news.com.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref> the [[Australian Bureau of Statistics|ABS]] has projected in two scenarios that Sydney will remain larger than Melbourne beyond 2056, albeit by a margin of less than 3% compared to a margin of 12% today. However, the first scenario projects that Melbourne's population overtakes Sydney in 2039, primarily due to larger levels of internal migration losses assumed for Sydney.<ref name=popprojections />

Melbourne's population density declined following the [[World War II|Second World War]], with the private [[Automobile|motor car]] and the lures of space and property ownership causing a suburban sprawl, mainly eastward. After much discussion both at general public and planning levels in the 1980s, the decline has reversed since the recession of the early 1990s. The city has seen increased density in the inner and western suburbs. Since the 1970s, Victorian Government planning blueprints, such as [[Postcode 3000]] and [[Melbourne 2030]], have aimed to curtail the [[urban sprawl]].<ref name="Melbourne2030">{{cite web|url=http://www.dse.vic.gov.au/melbourne2030online/content/introduction/02_summary.html|title=Melbourne 2030 - in summary|publisher=Victorian Government, Department of Sustainability and Environment (DSE) |accessdate=2008-10-05}}</ref>
<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.melbourne.vic.gov.au/info.cfm?top=288&pg=1362|title=City of Melbourne&nbsp;— Strategic Planning&nbsp;— Postcode 3000|publisher=City of Melbourne |accessdate=2008-10-05}}</ref>

==Media==
Melbourne is served by three daily newspapers, the [[Herald Sun]] (a tabloid),<ref name="heraldsun1">{{cite web|url=http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/|title=Herald Sun Homepage|Victorian, National and International news|publisher=Herals Sun&nbsp;— News.com.au|accessdate=2008-10-02}}</ref> [[The Age]] (broadsheet)<ref name="theage">{{cite web|url=http://www.theage.com.au/|title=The Age&nbsp;— Homepage|publisher=Fairfax Digital|accessdate=2008-10-02}}</ref> and [[The Australian]] (national).<ref name="TheAustralian123">{{cite web|url=http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/|title=The Australian, News from Australia's national newspaper|publisher=The Australian&nbsp;— news.com.au|accessdate=2008-10-02}}</ref> The free [[mX (newspaper)|mX]] is also distributed every weekday afternoon at railway stations and on the streets of central Melbourne.<ref name="MX1">{{cite web|url=http://www.mxnet.com.au/|title=MX|publisher=Herald and Weekly Times (HWT)|accessdate=2008-10-02}}</ref>


== Janeyryan ==
Melbourne has a 6 television stations: [[HSV-7]], which broadcasts from the [[Melbourne Docklands]] precinct; [[GTV-9]], which broadcasts from their [[Richmond, Victoria|Richmond]] studios; and [[ATV-10]], which broadcasts from the Como Complex in [[South Yarra, Victoria|South Yarra]]. National stations that broadcast into Melbourne include the [[Australian Broadcasting Corporation]] (ABC), which has two studios, one at [[Ripponlea, Victoria|Ripponlea]] and another at [[Southbank, Victoria|Southbank]]; and [[Special Broadcasting Service]] (SBS), which broadcasts from their studios at [[Federation Square]] in central Melbourne. [[C31 Melbourne]] is the only local community television station in Melbourne, and its broadcast range also branches out to [[Geelong]]


Hi Risker - I saw your post on Lar's talk page, and I hope you don't mind my butting in. I agree that the account looks suspicious, but [[Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Janeyryan|there's already been a checkuser run on it]]. The conclusions don't make any more sense to me than they likely do to you, but I wanted to make sure you were aware of it. [[User:Sarcasticidealist|Sarcasticidealist]] ([[User talk:Sarcasticidealist|talk]]) 02:06, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
A number of radio stations service the areas of Melbourne and beyond on the AM and FM band. Popular stations on the FM band include [[Nova 100]] and [[Mix 101.1]], both in Richmond, and [[Austereo]] channels [[Fox FM]] and [[3MMM|Triple M]], which share studios on [[St Kilda Road]]. Stations that are popular on the AM band include [[3AW]], a prominently [[talkback]] radio station, and its affiliate, [[Magic 1278]], which plays a selection of music from the 1930s-60s.<ref name="yahoo">{{cite web|url=http://www.geocities.com/radio1600/|title=Melbourne Radio Stations Australia > Melbourne|publisher=Yahoo&nbsp;— geocities|accessdate=2008-10-02}}</ref>
:Thanks, Sarcasticidealist. Those results actually do make a fair amount of sense, but I'll invoke [[WP:BEANS]] on why that is. One also has to bear in mind that what was seen seven weeks ago and what would be seen today could well be different things; it's best not to enter into such explorations with anticipation of a specific result. As a matter of course, I am quite hesitant to publicly name the account I suspect, because it could cause harm to the reputation of an innocent editor, while the CU result could potentially identify someone else as being linked to this account. [[User:Risker|Risker]] ([[User talk:Risker#top|talk]]) 04:56, 20 September 2008 (UTC)


== Ulster Defence Regiment ==
==Governance==
[[Image:John So 1 - Sarah Ewart.jpg|thumb|upright|right|[[John So]], current Lord Mayor of Melbourne]]
The [[Melbourne City Council]] governs the [[City of Melbourne]], which takes in the CBD and a few adjoining inner suburbs. However the head of the Melbourne City Council, the [[Lord Mayor of Melbourne]], is frequently treated as a representative of greater Melbourne (the entire metropolitan area),<ref>Dunstan, David [http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/11/11/1100131127769.html?from=storylhs The evolution of 'Clown Hall'], [[The Age]], 12 November 2004, accessed online 7 November 2006</ref> particularly when interstate or overseas. The Lord Mayor is [[John So]], who was crowned the 2006 [[World Mayor]].<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.worldmayor.com/results06/wm_winners06.html#Anchor-The-35326
|title=World Mayor: The results of World Mayor 2006
|publisher=www.worldmayor.com
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref>


I am so sorry. I have never used that template before and made an error in nor providing the correct information to assist you. If you'd be kind enough to look in again at [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ulster_Defence_Regiment#Trying_again]] I have made the request again in the hope that I've got it right this time. [[User:The Thunderer|The Thunderer]] ([[User talk:The Thunderer|talk]]) 21:09, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
The rest of the metropolitan area is divided into [[Local Government Areas of Victoria|30 local government areas]]. All these are designated as Cities, except for five on the city's outer fringes which have the title of Shire. The local government authorities have elected councils and are responsible for a range of functions (delegated to them from the State Government of Victoria under the Local Government Act of 1989<ref>[http://www.dms.dpc.vic.gov.au/Domino/Web_Notes/LDMS/PubLawToday.nsf/0/B171E800B03D6A9ECA256E5B00037B12/$FILE/89-11a030.pdf Local Government Act 1989]</ref>), such as [[urban planning]] and [[waste management]].


:I really am sorry. Although I'm a reasonably experienced editor I've not had to do this before and I'm not sure where I'm going wrong. I gave the link http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ulster_Defence_Regiment&diff=239848422&oldid=239848419 to show the information which had been removed. It is the text on the left hand side which is highlighted in yellow. [[User:BigDunc|BigDunc]] requested (as can be seen) that I provide citations for this text. Unfortunately I was too busy through the week because of work and I have spent the entire day going through the article trying to satisfy dozens of similar requests as there has been a lot of activity on it this week. Another admin [[User:Rockpocket|Rockpocket]] had already reviewed this material during the week as part of a request for 3rd party intervention. He didn't feel it warranted removal and that's why I would respectfully asked that it be returned until it can be properly dealt with when the editprotect is lifted. What should I do now? [[User:The Thunderer|The Thunderer]] ([[User talk:The Thunderer|talk]]) 21:32, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
Most city-wide government activities are controlled by the [[government of Victoria|Victorian state government]], which governs from [[Parliament House, Melbourne|Parliament House]] in [[Spring Street, Melbourne|Spring Street]]. These include public transport, main roads, traffic control, policing, education above preschool level, and planning of major infrastructure projects. Because three quarters of Victoria's population lives in Melbourne, state governments have traditionally been reluctant to allow the development of citywide governmental bodies, which would tend to rival the state government. The semi-autonomous [[Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works]] was abolished in 1992 for this reason.<ref>{{cite book|last=T|first=Dingle|coauthors=Rasmussen, C|title=Vital Connections: Melbourne and its Board of Works|publisher=McPhee Gribble (Penguin)|location=Ringwood, Australia|year=1991|language=english}}</ref>
::The text you indicated ''is currently in the article'', reference request tags and all. There's nothing for me to add there, since it is already there. I can't add your references because you haven't said what they are. I'm not trying to be confusing here, but the text you want me to insert is already there.
This is not dissimilar to other Australian states where State Governments have similar powers in greater metropolitan areas.
::I suggest that you copy that section onto a subpage for the article, add your references in the subpage copy, and discuss that section with your fellow editors. When there is consensus that the section, complete with references, is ready for the article, then an admin can paste it over to the main article. Given that this seems to be the very text over which the edit war has occurred, I'm not going to be mucking about with it. [[User:Risker|Risker]] ([[User talk:Risker#top|talk]]) 21:38, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Do you know something - you are absolutely and totally correct. That shows how confused I had become. I have looked at that article three times now to find that information and I couldn't. Who was it who said, "sometimes you can't see the wood for the trees"? Because never a truer word was spoken and now I feel like the biggest eejit on Wikipedia. Thank you very much for your patience and your help and I'm sorry to have been a nuisance. I'm sure you've got better things to be getting on with. [[User:The Thunderer|The Thunderer]] ([[User talk:The Thunderer|talk]]) 21:55, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
::::No worries, The Thunderer. Sometimes another pair of eyes is what is needed. I will be AFK for the next hour or so, but if you are uncertain of how to set up the subpage, I'll be happy to do it when I get back online. In the interim, this might be the right time for a late night snack? :-) [[User:Risker|Risker]] ([[User talk:Risker#top|talk]]) 22:00, 20 September 2008 (UTC)


==Education==
{{main|Education in Victoria}}


== Your question ==
[[Image:State Library of Victoria La Trobe Reading room 5th floor view.jpg|thumb|upright|[[State Library of Victoria]], Melbourne's largest public library. ([[Charles La Trobe|La Trobe]] Reading Room - 5th floor view)]]


I think [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration&diff=prev&oldid=240487736 this] may reflect a misunderstanding. Most bots run through independent frameworks (e.g. [[m:PWB|pyWikipedia]]), and not through browsers. Even though a bot may be active, in many cases there is no "logged-in browser" at all. In which case there is no risk that someone could walk up to an unattended browser and simply co-opt an admin account. [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] ([[User talk:Dragons flight|talk]]) 17:58, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
Education is overseen statewide by the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development (DEECD), whose role is to 'provide policy and planning advice for the delivery of education'.<ref>{{cite web
:Not entirely. The block involved in this case was to the admin account for the purpose of stopping the bot being operated under it, and it had exactly that effect. (Expanding) To be clear, in order for the bot to carry out administrative functions, it requires an admin flag. Since one is not issued legitimately (i.e., through BRFA), the only available flag for the unauthorised accounts belongs to the admin him/herself. [[User:Risker|Risker]] ([[User talk:Risker#top|talk]]) 18:03, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
|url=http://www.education.vic.gov.au/about/default.htm
|title=About the Department
|author=Department of Education and Early Childhood Development
|publisher=www.education.vic.gov.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref> It acts as advisor to two state ministers, that for Education and for Children and Early Childhood Development.


::Risker, your response makes little sense to me. So I can only assume that I am misunderstanding what you are intending to communicate. You asked a question about unattended bots. Most bots run unattended (including adminbots) that is simply the nature of the business. At the same time when most bots run, no one is "logged-in" in the traditional sense, i.e. there is generally no web browser or active Wikipedian, except via coincidence that the admin happens to be working at the same time the bot is scheduled to run. A flagged account must exist, but there is no greater risk of that account being comprised than if I had access to your computer after all windows were closed. I'm not at all sure what "effect" you are refering to or what you were trying to get at with your question. [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] ([[User talk:Dragons flight|talk]]) 18:16, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
===Preschool, primary and secondary===
<!--can we have something more in here than an ad for the private sector? cheers-->
Primary and secondary assessment, curriculum development and educational research initiatives throughout Melbourne and Victoria is undertaken by the [[Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority]] (VCAA),<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/aboutus/functions.html
|title=Function of the VCAA
|work=VCAA
|publisher=www.vcaa.vic.edu.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref> which offers the Victorian Essential Learning Standards (VELS) and Achievement Improvement Monitor (AIM) certificates from years Prep through Year 10, and the Victorian Certificate of Education (VCE) and Victorian Certificate of Applied Learning (VCAL) as part of senior secondary programs (Years 11 to 12).


:::As it has been explained to me, Dragons flight, the unauthorised adminbots specifically (not bots generally) must be linked to a logged-in administrative account and derive their abilities to carry out admin-restricted tasks from that logged-in administrative account. It is my understanding that if the admin account is logged out, its flag is not available for the bot to use. Perhaps I have completely misunderstood the explanation given to me by two separate bot operators. As to the "effect" point - the effect sought by Prodego was to stop the unauthorised bot. He achieved that effect by blocking Misza13; I assume that is because the needed tools were no longer available to the bot. It strikes me that blocking the admin account is effectively the stop button for these bots. Just one more reason for the admins to get them properly flagged, so that they don't get blocked if their bots go awry for some reason. [[User:Risker|Risker]] ([[User talk:Risker#top|talk]]) 18:35, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
Many [[high schools]] in Melbourne are called 'Secondary Colleges', a legacy of the [[Joan Kirner|Kirner]] [[Australian Labor Party|Labor]] government. There are two selective public schools in Melbourne (mentioned above), but all public schools may restrict entry to students living in their regional 'zone'.<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/10/16/1065917547157.html?from=storyrhs
|title=Schools inequality calls for bold reform
|work=The Age
|date=17 October 2003
|publisher=www.theage.com.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref><ref>[http://econrsss.anu.edu.au/%7Ealeigh/pdf/SchoolQualityHousePrices.pdf How Much Do Public Schools Really Cost? Estimating the Relationship Between House Prices and School Quality], ANU, 6 August 2006</ref>


::::Adminbots running under an admin's account are utilizing the admin's +sysop flag to perform their actions, and will be affected if that admin is blocked. So, yes, blocking the admin account is effectively the "stop button" for adminbots operating on that account. (With the technical caveat, that the ability to block or unblock is unaffected regardless of whether an admin has been blocked, so a blocking bot could only be stopped via desysoping.) But no, the admin does not need to be "logged-in" in the sense that a lay person would understand it. In most cases the bot communicates directly with Wikipedia without using a browser. The admin can log out and close all browsers, but the bot will continue to operate. From a technical point of view, Wikipedia sees the admin as "logged-in" while the bot is communicating, but if you were sitting at the computer there would be no browser or active interface. [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] ([[User talk:Dragons flight|talk]]) 18:49, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
Although non-tertiary [[public education]] is free, 35% of students attend a private primary or secondary school.<ref>Australian Bureau of Statistics - [http://www.ausstats.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/subscriber.nsf/0/2D8FFEDFC0C6F32ACA25711D000DFEB8/$File/42210_2005.pdf Schools, 2005]</ref> The most numerous [[private school]]s are [[Catholic school|Catholic]], and the rest are [[Independent schools|independent]] (see [[Public and Private Education in Australia]]).


== Thanks ==
===Tertiary and vocational===
[[Image:Parkville - University of Melbourne-Ormond College.jpg|thumb|upright|[[Ormond College (University of Melbourne)|Ormond College]] (1879), [[University of Melbourne]]]]
<!--largest oldest biggest bestest greatest etc etc; if anyone could bung in some actual information that'd be tops-->
Melbourne's two largest universities are the [[University of Melbourne]] (also called ''Melbourne University'') and [[Monash University]], the largest university in Australia. Both are members of the [[Group of Eight (Australian universities)|Group of Eight]]. Melbourne University ranked second among Australian universities in the 2006 [[THES]] international rankings.<ref name="melbuni">{{cite news | url = http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/anu-up-there-with-the-best/2006/10/05/1159641468047.html | title = ANU up there with the best | work = Sydney Morning Herald |date=6 October 2005 | accessdate = 2006-10-12}}</ref> While ''[[The Times Higher Education Supplement]]'' ranked the University of Melbourne as the 22nd best university in the world, [[Monash University]] was ranked the 38th best university in the world. Melbourne was ranked the world's fourth top university city in 2008 after [[London]], [[Boston]] and [[Tokyo]].<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.rmit.net.au/browse;ID=q3l220b3wzs5
|title=World’s top university cities revealed
|author=RMIT
|publisher=www.rmit.net.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref>


For taking the trouble. [[User:John Nevard|John Nevard]] ([[User talk:John Nevard|talk]]) 14:36, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
Melbourne is home to some of the nation's oldest educational institutions, including the oldest [[Law school|Law]] (1857), [[Engineering]] (1860), [[Medical school|Medical]] (1862), [[Dentistry|Dental]] (1897) and [[Music school|Music]] (1891) schools, all at the University of Melbourne. The University of Melbourne is also the oldest university in Victoria and the second oldest university in Australia.


:FYI: [http://toolserver.org/~bjweeks/cgi-bin/wikistalk.py?namespace=0&user1=SlimVirgin&user2=John%20Nevard] --[[Special:Contributions/172.191.112.66|172.191.112.66]] ([[User talk:172.191.112.66|talk]]) 20:56, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
Other universities located in Melbourne include [[La Trobe University]], [[RMIT University]], [[Swinburne University of Technology]], [[Victoria University of Technology|Victoria University]] and the St Patrick's campus of the [[Australian Catholic University]]. [[Deakin University]] maintains two major campuses in Melbourne and Geelong, and is the third largest university in Victoria. In recent years, the number of [[international student]]s at Melbourne's universities has risen rapidly, a result of an increasing number of places being made available to full fee paying students.<ref>{{cite web
::what does it mean? --[[User:Rocksanddirt|Rocksanddirt]] ([[User talk:Rocksanddirt|talk]]) 00:01, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
|url=http://uninews.unimelb.edu.au/articleid_3967.html
:::Pay it no heed, Rocksanddirt. You know the drill. ;-) [[User:Risker|Risker]] ([[User talk:Risker#top|talk]]) 00:18, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
|title=University of Melbourne's international student offers rise&nbsp;— as its demand leaps
::::I know, but sometimes I do want to know what they are thinking. --[[User:Rocksanddirt|Rocksanddirt]] ([[User talk:Rocksanddirt|talk]]) 00:21, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
|work= University of Melbourne Media Release
:::::Ah well, I believe it has something to do with enabling and footwear and the strange desire to develop very odd templates. Hmm...templates.... [[User:Risker|Risker]] ([[User talk:Risker#top|talk]]) 00:29, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
|date=12 January 2007
::::::''sigh'' - to deep for me I think. --[[User:Rocksanddirt|Rocksanddirt]] ([[User talk:Rocksanddirt|talk]]) 00:37, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
|publisher=uninews.unimelb.edu.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref>


Thanks for the note. Now it all makes sense, and like i suspected is to stupid to comment on directly. --[[User:Rocksanddirt|Rocksanddirt]] ([[User talk:Rocksanddirt|talk]]) 15:03, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
{{further|[[List of schools in Victoria]]}}


==Infrastructure==
== Giano II ==
===Health===
The [[Government of Victoria]]'s Department of Human Services oversees approximately 30 public [[hospital]]s in the Melbourne metropolitan region, and 13 health services organisations.<ref>[http://www.health.vic.gov.au/maps/metro_hs.htm Melbourne public hospitals and Metropolitan Health Services] Victorian Department of Health</ref> The major public hospitals are the [[Royal Melbourne Hospital]], [[The Alfred Hospital]], [[Monash Medical Centre]], [[Austin Hospital, Melbourne|Austin Hospital]], [[St Vincent's Hospital, Melbourne|St Vincent's]] and the [[Royal Children's Hospital]], while major private hospitals include [[Epworth Hospital]], St Francis Xavier Cabrini Private Hospital and St Vincent's Private. The city is also home to major medical and [[biotechnology]] research centres such as [[St. Vincent's Institute of Medical Research]], the [[Burnet Institute]], [[Peter MacCallum Cancer Institute]], the [[Walter and Eliza Hall Institute of Medical Research]], the [[Murdoch Children's Research Institute]], [[Baker Heart Institute]] and the [[Australian Synchrotron]].<ref name="health">{{cite web|url=http://www.health.vic.gov.au/|title=Victorian Government Health Information Web site|publisher=health services, Victoria|accessdate=2008-10-05}}</ref>


If Giano gets in more trouble because of me?, I'll do my best to defend him. In fact, I'll take the heat for'em. I had forgotten that he was under sanctions; I'll follow your advice. [[User:GoodDay|GoodDay]] ([[User talk:GoodDay|talk]]) 23:11, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
===Transport===
:PS- When is Giano's probation due to expire? [[User:GoodDay|GoodDay]] ([[User talk:GoodDay|talk]]) 23:17, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
{{main|Transport in Melbourne}}
[[Image:Melbourne Flinders St. Station.jpg|thumb|upright|right|The centre of public transport in the [[Melbourne city centre|Melbourne CBD]], [[Flinders Street Station]]]]
[[Image:BolteBridge.jpg|thumb|upright|right|The [[Bolte Bridge]] is part of the [[CityLink]] tollway system]]


::Thanks, GoodDay. I know you meant no harm. Giano, it appears, has called it a night; probably wise under the circumstances. The Buck House article, I think, sticks in his craw to the point that he actually removed it from his watchlist at one point. What people forget is, when this article comes up for review, someone will stick a templated message (probably unsigned) on Giano's talk page, fully expecting him to defend the article. Many people do not understand that there is far more to a featured article than inline citations and grammatically correct prose. The best FAs are well-designed pages, with the various elements present in balance in such a way as to have the reader's eye flow from one element to another. But I digress. I'm not entirely certain, but I believe the civility sanction is to expire in early February. [[User:Risker|Risker]] ([[User talk:Risker#top|talk]]) 23:51, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
Melbourne has an integrated [[public transport]] system promoted under the [[Metlink]] brand. Originally laid out late in the 19th century when trains and trams were the primary methods of travelling to the suburbs, the 1950s saw an increase in private vehicles and freeway construction.<ref>{{cite web
:::[[Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/IRC#Civility:_Giano|03:56 on 9 Feb 2009]]. That day's posts should make interesting reading.<small>&nbsp;–&nbsp;<font style="font-family: Zapfino, Segoe Script"><font color="#E45E05">[[User:Iridescent|iride]]</font><font color="#C1118C">[[User talk:Iridescent|scent]]</font></font>&nbsp;23:54, 27 September 2008 (UTC)</small>
|url=http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/02/11/1076388428001.html
:::::No it wont make interesting reading, because the sanction is not existent, only in the minds of those who passed it and their sycophantic friends. It was uncalled for illegal unenforceable and a pure act of malice and spite by those who voted for it. It has made them look ridiculous and damaged the project. 9 Feb 2009 will be no different to any other day in my Wikipedia life, as was 10 Feb 2008. [[User:Giano II|Giano]] ([[User talk:Giano II|talk]]) 16:52, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
|title=The cars that ate Melbourne
::::::Oh, my comment wasn't aimed at you – I don't think you ever change (everyone will have their own opinions on whether that's a good or a bad thing) – but at the Angry Mob who'll gather (on both sides).<small>&nbsp;–&nbsp;<font style="font-family: Zapfino, Segoe Script"><font color="#E45E05">[[User:Iridescent|iride]]</font><font color="#C1118C">[[User talk:Iridescent|scent]]</font></font>&nbsp;19:23, 29 September 2008 (UTC)</small>
|work=The Age
::::::Hijack away, Iridescent, I do it on your page often enough. It is an interesting question, though. Would it be harder or easier to block Giano after the civility patrol expires? For that matter, how has it worked out in the past? I'm not sure what the precedents are. The community seems to be very undecided about what it means when it comes to civility anymore; the policy is in the middle of rewriting and is every bit as muddy now as it was to start with, it just reflects ever so slightly different views. What with this new proposal for being able to block people from specific pages or areas,. I have a feeling we will be seeing wild blocking sprees of anyone who argues points anywhere. Anything that makes it easier to block people is a bad thing, in my books. [[User:Risker|Risker]] ([[User talk:Risker#top|talk]]) 19:37, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
|date=14 February 2004
::::::::::I am quite sure by the time the "parole" expires the Arbcom, IRC and the Peanut Gallery (one body) will have found to some further way of making themselves appear ridiculous and malicious and extended it. [[User:Giano II|Giano]] ([[User talk:Giano II|talk]]) 07:38, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
|publisher=theage.com.au
:::::::Something Giano once said in a very different context works just as well as a civility policy IMO; assume that everyone reading whatever you're writing is a bright 14 year old unless you have evidence to the contrary. Would whatever you're posting be something you'd say to a 14 year old child if you were having a similar conversation face to face? It works surprisingly well. (Says someone with a talkpage full of complaints about my "abusive actions", a lengthy history of adding semi-pornographic images to talkpages and a reputation for foul-tempered sulking and the subject of two recent civility RFCs rivalling Giano's in fatuousness if not length, but you get my drift).<small>&nbsp;–&nbsp;<font style="font-family: Zapfino, Segoe Script"><font color="#E45E05">[[User:Iridescent|iride]]</font><font color="#C1118C">[[User talk:Iridescent|scent]]</font></font>&nbsp;19:57, 29 September 2008 (UTC)</small>
|accessdate=2008-07-18
:Would it be harder or easier to block Giano? It's not really anyone's '''goal,''' to block Giano, I hope. Therefore, instrumentalities are kind of... well, too overtly evil for my taste in discussion. I would say that Giano is as blockable as I am or you are, and for the same reasons. I don't think "civility" is grounds for blocking anyone, as any blocking rationale needs to be comprehensible, precise, and clear, and no one who has invoked 'civility' has ever been ''any'' of those things about the block. "Disruption" is clearer, in that it requires ''actions'' and ''responses'' on the part of the affected few, but "civility" is a reason to talk to someone or not talk to someone, not to block or allow someone. Therefore, blocking me or you can be done, if you or I violate policy. If either of us behaves in a manner that causes displeasure to some third party, well, that makes us unpleasant. Sic transit gloria mundi. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] ([[User talk:Geogre|talk]]) 10:21, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
}}</ref> This trend has continued with successive governments despite relentless traffic congestion,<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/09/07/1062901941527.html
|title=Bid to end traffic chaos
|date=8 September 2003
|work=The Age
|publisher=www.theage.com.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref> with a resulting drop in public transport modeshare from the 1940s level of around 25% to the current level of around 9% <ref>[http://www.150.theage.com.au/view_bestofarticle.asp?straction=update&inttype=1&intid=1823 Trial by public transport: why the system is failing] article from The Age</ref> Melbourne's public transport system was [[privatization|privatised]] in 1999.<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/12bn-sting-in-the-rail/2006/04/08/1143916767672.html
|title=$1.2bn sting in the rail
|work=The Age
|date=9 April 2006
|publisher=theage.com.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref> Between 1999 and 2008, funding for road expansion was five times greater than public transport extension.<ref>[http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/new-road-cash-five-times-funding-of-rail/2008/05/04/1209839456871.html New road cash five times funding of rail]</ref>


== Per User talk:Giano II ==
[[Trams in Melbourne|Melbourne's tram network]] is the largest [[tram]] network in the world.<ref name="Metlink">{{cite web|url=http://www.metlinkmelbourne.com.au/about_metlink|title=Metlink&nbsp;— Your guide to Public transport in Meloburne and Victoria|publisher=Metlink|accessdate=2008-09-28}}</ref><ref name="railpage">{{cite web|url=http://www.railpage.org.au/tram/melbhist.html|title=Melbourne's Tram History|publisher=railpage.org.au|accessdate=2008-09-28}}</ref> Melbourne's is Australia's only tram network to comprise more than a single line. Sections of the tram network are on road, others are separated or [[light rail]] routes. The iconic trams are also recognized as a cultural asset and tourist attraction. Visitors are served by a free [[City Circle Tram]], as well as fleet of [[Colonial Tramcar Restaurant|restaurant trams]].<ref name="Metlink1">{{cite web|url=http://www.metlinkmelbourne.com.au/|title=Metlink&nbsp;— Your guide to public transport in Melbourne and Victoria|publisher=Metlink-Melbourne|accessdate=2008-10-05}}</ref>
*The article I was asking about is: [[Peter Jones (missionary)]]
*The peer review is archived here: [[Wikipedia:Peer review/Peter Jones (missionary)/archive1]]
*It was promoted to GA without comment [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3APeter_Jones_%28missionary%29&diff=235094796&oldid=234314258]
*It failed FAC for want of a good copyedit, near as I can tell: [[Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Peter Jones (missionary)/archive1]]. CJLippert and I are the only people with any substantial contributions, though Karanacs and a few others did some copyediting during the FAC, it was deem'd insufficient, I guess.
Anyways, I'm kind of stuck on it for the time being, and would appreciate whatever can be done. [[User:WilyD|Wily]]<font color="FF8800">[[User talk:WilyD|D]]</font> 17:22, 29 September 2008 (UTC)


== RE: Revert to Iredescent's page ==
[[Railways in Melbourne|Melbourne's train network]] is a mostly [[Railway electrification system|electrified railway]] system which serves the metropolitan area with 19 lines, all of them radiating from the partially underground [[City Loop, Melbourne|City Loop]] which circles the Central Business District. [[Flinders Street Station]] is Melbourne's busiest railway station, and was the world's busiest passenger station in 1926. It remains a prominent Melbourne landmark and meeting place.<ref>
[http://www.nla.gov.au/pict/list/vicgovrail.html Melbourne and scenes in Victoria 1925–1926 from Victorian Government Railways] From the National Library of Australia</ref>


Lol, well thanks, I guess. [[::User:Police,Mad,Jack|Police,Mad,Jack]]&nbsp;([[::User talk:Police,Mad,Jack|talk]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[::Special:Contributions/Police,Mad,Jack|contribs]])<font size="4">☺</font> 18:09, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
The city has rail connections with regional Victorian cities, as well as interstate rail services to [[Sydney]] and [[Adelaide]], which depart from Melbourne's other major rail terminus, [[Southern Cross Station]] in Spencer Street.


== AE sanctions concerning Ireland related articles ==
[[Buses in Melbourne|Melbourne's bus network]] consists of almost [[List of Melbourne bus routes|300 routes]] which mainly service the outer suburbs fill the gaps in the network between rail and light rail services.<ref name="Buses">{{cite web|url=http://www.getting-around-melbourne.com.au/melbourne-buses.html|title=Melbourne Buses|publisher=getting-around-melbourne.com.au|accessdate=2008-10-05}}</ref><ref name="Metlink1"/>


Wowsers, the boom was lowered on ''five'' editors, simultaneously. [[User:GoodDay|GoodDay]] ([[User talk:GoodDay|talk]]) 23:01, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
Melbourne has a high dependency on private cars for transport, with 7.1% of trips made by public transport.<ref name="newman">[http://www.mtf.org.au/binary.php/resouces_presentation/mtf_launch_presentation_071105_handout_.pdf Most Liveable and Best Connected?] The Economic Benefits of Investing in Public Transport in Melbourne, by Jan Scheurer, Jeff Kenworthy, and [[Peter Newman (Australian)|Peter Newman]]</ref>
However there has been a significant rise in patronage in the last two years mostly due to higher fuel prices,<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22561141-2862,00.html
|title=Still addicted to cars
|work= Herald Sun
|date=10 October 2007
|publisher=www.news.com.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref> since 2006, public transport patronage has grown by over 20%.<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/public-transport-makes-inroads-but-not-beyond-the-fringe/2008/01/13/1200159277533.html
|title=Public transport makes inroads, but not beyond the fringe
|work=The Age
|date=14 January 2008
|publisher=theage.com.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref> The largest number of cars are bought in the outer suburban area, while the inner suburbs with greater access to train and tram services enjoy higher public transport patronage. Melbourne has a total of 3.6 million private vehicles using {{convert|22320|km|mi|abbr=on}} of road, and one of the highest lengths of road per capita.<ref name="newman">[http://www.mtf.org.au/binary.php/resouces_presentation/mtf_launch_presentation_071105_handout_.pdf Most Liveable and Best Connected?] The Economic Benefits of Investing in Public Transport in Melbourne, by Jan Scheurer, Jeff Kenworthy, and [[Peter Newman (Australian)|Peter Newman]]</ref>
Major highways feeding into the city include the [[Eastern Freeway]], [[Monash Freeway]] and [[West Gate Freeway]] (which spans the large [[Westgate Bridge]]), whilst other freeways circumnavigate the city or lead to other major cities, including [[CityLink]], [[EastLink, Melbourne|Eastlink]], the [[Western Ring Road, Melbourne|Western Ring Road]], [[Calder Freeway]], [[Tullamarine Freeway]] (main airport link) and the [[Hume Freeway]] which links Melbourne and [[Sydney]].<ref name="VicRoads">{{cite web|url=http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/RoadsAndProjects/RoadNetwork/|title=Victoria's Road Network|publisher=VicRoads|accessdate=2008-10-05}}</ref>


== Thanks ==
The [[Port of Melbourne]] is Australia's largest container and general cargo port and also its busiest. In 2007, the port handled two million shipping containers in a 12 month period, making it one of the top five ports in the Southern Hemisphere.<ref name=pom>{{cite web
|url=http://www.bernama.com.my/bernama/v3/news.php?id=267171
|title=Port Of Melbourne Sets Shipping Record
|date=13 June 2007
|work=Malaysian National News Agency
|publisher=www.bernama.com.my
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref> [[Station Pier]] in [[Port Phillip Bay]] handles [[cruise ships]] and the [[Spirit of Tasmania]] ferries which cross [[Bass Strait]] to [[Tasmania]].<ref name="Tasy">{{cite web|url=http://www.spiritoftasmania.com.au/|title=Spirit of Tasmania&nbsp;— One of Australia's great journeys|publisher=TT-Line Company Pty Ltd|accessdate=2008-10-05}}</ref>


Thanks, that is honestly the first edit I've made that I knew should be deleted. But I saved it for the right guy! [[User:Joshdboz|Joshdboz]] ([[User talk:Joshdboz|talk]]) 00:59, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
Melbourne has [[List of airports in the Melbourne area|four airports]]. [[Melbourne Airport]] located at [[Tullamarine]] is the city's main international and domestic gateway. The airport is home base for passenger airlines [[Jetstar]] and [[Tiger Airways Australia]] and cargo airlines [[Australian air Express]] and [[Toll Holdings|Toll Priority]] and is a major hub for [[Qantas]] and [[Virgin Blue]]. [[Avalon Airport]], located between Melbourne and [[Geelong]], is a secondary hub of [[Jetstar]] and may soon offer international flights to [[Kuala Lumpur]] on [[AirAsia X]].<ref>{{cite news |title= Perth shows it has the X factor in the battle to attract low-cost Malaysian airline|author=The Australian |date=16 May 2008 |url=http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23705452-23349,00.html|publisher=News Limited |accessdate=2008-05-19}}</ref> It is also used as a freight and maintenance facility. This makes Melbourne the only city in Australia to have a second commercial airport. [[Moorabbin Airport]] is a significant [[general aviation]] airport in the city's south east as well as handling a limited number of passenger flights. [[Essendon Airport]], which was once the city's main airport before the construction of the airport at Tullamarine, handles passenger flights, general aviation and some cargo flights.<ref name="EssendonAir">{{cite web|url=http://www.essendonairport.com.au/|title=Essendon Airport|publisher=Essendon Airport Pty Ltd |accessdate=2008-10-05}}</ref>


== Joshbod's edit ==
===Utilities===
{{see also|Energy in Victoria}}
Water storage and supply for Melbourne is managed by [[Melbourne Water]], which is owned by the Victorian Government. The organisation is also responsible for management of sewerage and the major [[water catchment]]s in the region.
Water is mainly stored in the largest dam, the [[Thomson River Dam]] which is capable of holding around 60% of Melbourne's water capacity,<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.melbournewater.com.au/content/water/water_storages/water_storages.asp?bhcp=1
|title=Dam Water Storage Levels
|author=Melbourne Water
|publisher=www.melbournewater.com.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref> while smaller dams such as the [[Upper Yarra Dam]] and the [[Cardinia Reservoir]] carry secondary supplies.


Hi Cojoco, just to let you know, even Joshbod agreed that his comment should be removed, per his message on my talk page. He was voicing his negative personal opinion about a living person, which is generally frowned on in our [[WP:BLP|policy on biographical information about living people]]. It's especially important to do that on the talk pages of articles that have already seen very heated editing, to keep the temperature down and keep the focus on the article itself. Hope this explanation helps. [[User:Risker|Risker]] ([[User talk:Risker|talk]]) 01:08, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
[[Water restrictions in Australia|Water restrictions]] are in place and the state government has considered [[water recycling]] schemes for the city. In June 2007, the Bracks Government announced a $4.9 billion water plan to secure the future of water supplies in Melbourne, including the construction of a $3.1 billion [[melbourne desalination plant|desalination plant]] on Victoria's south-east coast, capable of treating 150 billion litres of water per year.<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/desal-plant-to-be-publicprivate-deal/2007/09/19/1189881595089.html
|title=Desal plant to be public-private deal
|work=The Age
|publisher=theage.com.au
|date=20 September 2007
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref> Other projects included in this package is a {{convert|70|km|mi|abbr=on}} pipeline from the Goulburn area in Victoria's north to Melbourne and a new water pipeline linking Melbourne and [[Geelong]]. These projects will be run and managed by [[Melbourne Water]].<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.melbournewater.com.au/content/current_projects/water_supply/seawater_desalination_plant/seawater_desalination_plant.asp
|title=Water Supply: Seawater Desalination Plant
|author=Melbourne Water
|publisher=www.melbournewater.com.au
|accessdate=2008-07-18
}}</ref>


: Hi, Risker, thanks for your explanation; I only saw your note on Joshbod's talk page after I added my comment to his page. By the way, is this the correct way to carry on a conversation across two user's talk pages? I'm not sure if I should be adding this note here or to my own talk page. Thanks. [[User:Cojoco|cojoco]] ([[User talk:Cojoco|talk]]) 01:15, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
Supply of [[town gas]] to Melbourne was initially provided by private companies such as the [[Melbourne Metropolitan Gas Company]] from the 1850s, with [[gasworks]] being scattered throughout the suburbs. The [[Gas and Fuel Corporation of Victoria]] was formed in 1951 to manage gas supply state wide, and to build a centralised gasworks at [[Morwell, Victoria|Morwell]]. The discovery of [[natural gas]] in [[Bass Strait]] in the 1960s saw gas supplies converted to the new fuel by the 1970s.<ref>[http://www.esv.vic.gov.au/ForConsumers/OverviewofgasindustryinAustralia/NaturalgasinVictoria/tabid/295/Default.aspx Energy Safe Victoria: Natural Gas in Victoria]</ref> The Gas and Fuel Corporation was [[privatised]] in the late 1990s.<ref name="RBAGOV">{{cite web|url=http://www.rba.gov.au/PublicationsAndResearch/Bulletin/bu_dec97/bu_1297_2.pdf|title=Privatisation in Australia|publisher=rba.gov.au/|accessdate=2008-10-05}}</ref>


::It can be done many ways, Cojoco. I usually answer on my talk page, unless I have a message that I want to absolutely ensure will be seen and I am not familiar with the editor. I watch all talk pages I post on for a minimum of a week after I post there. The way you have done it works too, although you will see I am answering here and not going back to your talk page. (I figure you have mine on your watchlist now, since you just posted here.) It's good to keep conversations together. Many users will outline their talk page practices at the top of their talk page, you might find that helpful. [[User:Risker|Risker]] ([[User talk:Risker#top|talk]]) 01:28, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
The first [[Electrical power industry|electricity supplies]] to Melbourne were also provided by [[Defunct utility companies in Victoria, Australia|private companies]], with a number of small [[power stations]] such as those at [[Spencer Street Power Station, Victoria (Australia)|Spencer Street]] and [[Richmond Power Station, Victoria|Richmond]] operating. These small operations were merged into the [[State Electricity Commission of Victoria]] that was formed in 1921,<ref>[State Electricity Commission Act 1920 (No.3104)]</ref> the SECV also building the first of many [[brown coal]] fired power stations at [[Yallourn Power Station, Victoria|Yallourn]] in the [[Latrobe Valley]]. The responsibilities of the SECV were privatised between 1995 and 1999. In the urban area, the largest powerstation is the [[Newport Power Station, Victoria (Australia)|Newport Power Station]], located close to the mouth of the Yarra River the stack of which dominates the skyline of the inner western suburbs.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.theage.com.au/news/business/big-expansion-planned-for-newport/2006/11/12/1163266412333.html|title=Big expansion planned for Newport|publisher=theage.com.au|accessdate=2008-10-05}}</ref>


== Info boxes ==
Numerous telecommunications companies operate in Melbourne providing terrestrial and mobile telecommunications services.


If the parameters set the list of iboes required category can then be used to go and systimaticaly add them to articles. People can ignore it, the statement that the primary editor would have added if they wanted it sounds very [[WP:OWN]]. My current 'project' is assessing articles tagged with WP Derbyshire, (having previously had a taging period) then going back systematicly fix / expand things, as its more productive thank you. - [[User:BulldozerD11|BulldozerD11]] ([[User talk:BulldozerD11|talk]]) 20:22, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
[[Image:Melbourne Docklands - Yarras Edge - marina panorama.jpg|thumb|upright|800px|center|Melbourne [[:en:Melbourne Docklands|Docklands]] - Yarra’s Edge at twilight]]
:Bulldozer, no article "needs" an infobox. If you were to actually look at the article you are assessing, and consider what the effect of a userbox would be, you would know that article should not have an infobox. Architectural images are normally larger than that which infoboxes can support, but the larger image is essential for detail, which is described in the article. Further, the infobox would visually unbalance the article. If it is considered essential that all articles within the WP Derbyshire have an infobox, then I suggest you leave the article out of the wikiproject, which also does not [[WP:OWN]] the article. [[User:Risker|Risker]] ([[User talk:Risker#top|talk]]) 20:31, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
::Agree projects dont own articles, it was the implication that the primary editor has the right to decide wether an article has somthing or not, that implies ownership. So we scrap all the stub articles then as they look unbalanced etc. The project box has been set with the parameter which ime using. Articles grow if people edit them espicaly if they can see a gap in the coverage. If its your pet project you can have it, theres plenty more and i'v got a list of plenty of new ones to creat, was just doing a bit of house keeping with the tag list and resulting articles with no importance assigned. Its too small to worry about for me. Bye - [[User:BulldozerD11|BulldozerD11]] ([[User talk:BulldozerD11|talk]]) 21:21, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
:::Um, yes. There are very few stub articles that benefit from an infobox; I have seen several that have more information in the infobox than the article, which is absolutely the wrong way to do things. The one exception may be something like the near-earth asteroid project, which is bot-created, but even still the article with its refs is pretty well as long as the infobox; in any case, those are more very short but essentially complete articles than stubs. [[User:Risker|Risker]] ([[User talk:Risker#top|talk]]) 21:28, 2 October 2008 (UTC)


== Removal of <nowiki>{{prod}}</nowiki> from [[Citot]] ==
==Sister cities==


By an IP address no less (not prohibited by the guidelines, mind you). I would certainly add my '''d''' to your AfD. [[User:Bongomatic|Bongomatic]] ([[User talk:Bongomatic|talk]]) 08:54, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
{{Melb sister cities map|width=293|float=right}}
The [[City of Melbourne]] has six [[sister city|sister cities]].<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.melbourne.vic.gov.au/info.cfm?top=161&pg=2979|title=City of Melbourne&nbsp;— International relations&nbsp;— Sister cities|publisher=City of Melbourne|accessdate=2008-04-04}}</ref> They are:
{{Col-begin|width=}}
{{Col-break}}
* {{flagicon|Japan}} [[Osaka, Osaka|Osaka]], Japan, 1978
* {{flagicon|China}} [[Tianjin]], China, 1980
* {{flagicon|Greece}} [[Thessaloniki]], [[Greece]], 1984
* {{flagicon|USA}} [[Boston, Massachusetts|Boston]], United States, 1985
* {{flagicon|Russia}} [[Saint Petersburg]], Russia, 1989
* {{flagicon|Italy}} [[Milan]], Italy, 2004
{{Col-end}}


== restoral of same BLP stuff ==
Some other local councils in the Melbourne metropolitan area have sister city relationships; see [[Local Government Areas of Victoria]].


[[User:MediaLawyer]] has [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Richie_Ramone&diff=242345121&oldid=226712276 restored] part of the BLP content that was deleted per a OTRS ticket, insisting on inserting the Walmart lawsuit and using low quality sources. He made no prior discussion on the talk page. --[[User:Enric Naval|Enric Naval]] ([[User talk:Enric Naval|talk]]) 18:12, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
==See also==
{{commonscat|Melbourne}}
{{sisterlinks|Melbourne}}
{{Col-begin|width=}}


==Thanks!==
{{Col-break}}
Thanks for the reply's on my talk page. I saw that blp discussion somewhere (lar's?, AN/I?) and just went to delete the blp stuff. The whole article really blows, but I was tired and didn't have the energy to really fix it. --[[User:Rocksanddirt|Rocksanddirt]] ([[User talk:Rocksanddirt|talk]]) 21:01, 6 October 2008 (UTC) and the vandalism revert...I didn't even see that....--[[User:Rocksanddirt|Rocksanddirt]] ([[User talk:Rocksanddirt|talk]]) 21:04, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
* [[Timeline of Melbourne history]]
* [[Melbourne tourism]]
* [[List of Melburnians]]
* [[List of Melbourne suburbs]]
* [[List of Mayors and Lord Mayors of Melbourne]]
* [[Local Government Areas of Victoria]]
* [[Crime in Melbourne]]


== I'm a PC ==
{{Col-break}}
* [[List of songs about Melbourne]]
* [[List of heritage listed buildings in Melbourne]]
* [[Melway]]&nbsp;— the native street directory and general information source in Melbourne.
* [[Hook turn]]&nbsp;— driving manoeuvre that is common in the inner city area.
* [[World's Most Livable Cities]]&nbsp;— Melbourne has twice been ranked equal first with [[Vancouver]].
* [[Large Cities Climate Leadership Group]]


Risker, can you change your protection to full or remove it and block the IP? We don't use semi protection to block out IP users from edit wars. If there's a legitimate 3RR report then the user can be blocked, we shouldn't stop every single IP or autoconfirmed user from editing the page just because one is edit warring with the page creator. '''[[User:Ryan Postlethwaite|<font color="green">Ryan</font> <font color="purple">Postlethwaite</font>]]<sup>See [[Special:Contributions/Ryan Postlethwaite|the mess I've created]] or [[User talk:Ryan Postlethwaite|let's have banter]]</sup>''' 18:35, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
{{Col-end}}
{{clear}}


:Fair enough, Ryan; thanks for the advice. Will review quickly and change to one or the other. [[User:Risker|Risker]] ([[User talk:Risker#top|talk]]) 18:37, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
==Notes and references==
{{Reflist|2}}


::Cheers Risker. I'm planning on bringing all the parties together so we can try and settle the dispute but there's just so much going on that I don't know where to start. There's a 3RR report [[Wikipedia:AN/3RR#76.224.68.237_reported_by_Arcayne_.28Result:_.29|here]] that you might find useful. I've had a chat with Arcayne because he's hit three reverts and I think he's fairly frustrated that the IP won't discuss its edits. Arcayne is making a good effort to get some discussion going on the talk page. '''[[User:Ryan Postlethwaite|<font color="green">Ryan</font> <font color="purple">Postlethwaite</font>]]<sup>See [[Special:Contributions/Ryan Postlethwaite|the mess I've created]] or [[User talk:Ryan Postlethwaite|let's have banter]]</sup>''' 18:40, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
==External links==
:::On looking at it, the anonymous editor is so far over 3RR, with multiple editors reverting him/her, that I have elected to block rather than fully protect. As well, I note some other beneficial editing happening that does not appear to be related to the dispute, and don't want to pour cold water on that. If you can persuade the IP editor to participate in talk page discussion rather than returning to edit warring, I would have absolutely no problem with you unblocking. [[User:Risker|Risker]] ([[User talk:Risker#top|talk]]) 18:45, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
* {{wikitravel}}
::::Nor would I, but I am thinking that, judging from the responses in the 3RR complaint, the anon might need to distance himself from the article for a bit, so as to gain some perspective. Granted, I'm no princess here, but not being able to take the hit for your bad behavior is a pretty clear sign that perspective is needed. - [[User:Arcayne|<span style="color:black">'''Arcayne'''</span>]] [[User talk:Arcayne|<small><span style="color:gray">(<sup>'''cast a spell'''</sup>)</span></small>]] 18:50, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
* [http://www.melbourne.vic.gov.au/ City of Melbourne official site]
::::As an aside, were you going to conclude the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RR#76.224.68.237_reported_by_Arcayne_.28Result:_.29 AN/3RR report], as you've blocked the IP? - [[User:Arcayne|<span style="color:black">'''Arcayne'''</span>]] [[User talk:Arcayne|<small><span style="color:gray">(<sup>'''cast a spell'''</sup>)</span></small>]] 18:57, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
::::::Well, I posted the result, but I have to log off in a minute; if there are fancy templates to be added please feel free. Ryan, by the way, check your email. [[User:Risker|Risker]] ([[User talk:Risker#top|talk]]) 19:00, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


== User:MediaLawyer ==
{{AustralianCapitalCities}}
{{Olympic Summer Games Host Cities}}
{{Commonwealth Games Host Cities}}


I have been reviewing his case due to his recent unblock request. As far as I can tell, the information added to the Richie Ramone article was referenced to reliable sources, and fairly neutrally presented. Could you perhaps elaborate more fully how his October 1st edit: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Richie_Ramone&diff=prev&oldid=242345121], led you to block him 3 days later: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AMediaLawyer&diff=242871746&oldid=221952651]. I am quite confused, and if you have additional information that led to the block, to which is not obvious, please post it on his talk page so that I or another admin can act on his unblock request. Thank you! --[[User:Jayron32|Jayron32]].[[User talk:Jayron32|<small>talk</small>]].[[Special:Contributions/Jayron32|<small>contribs</small>]] 02:18, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
<!-- [[wuu:墨尔本]] -->
:Stand by please, Jayron32, I am conferring with the OTRS person who took the ticket to clarify the situation and make sure my memory is correct. I see the other editor who was previously involved seems to be back as well, and that will have to be addressed as well. In the interim, you might want to read the archived talk page. [[User:Risker|Risker]] ([[User talk:Risker#top|talk]]) 02:44, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
::Thanks. I have been reading up on it. It looks like he only made a single edit since the OTRS deletion; could we not just warn him not to return the information to the article? This may be a deeper issue, and I await your info on the OTRS situation. Thanks! --[[User:Jayron32|Jayron32]].[[User talk:Jayron32|<small>talk</small>]].[[Special:Contributions/Jayron32|<small>contribs</small>]] 02:49, 9 October 2008 (UTC)


== [[Seth Finkelstein]] article ==
[[Category:Australian capital cities]]
[[Category:Coastal cities in Australia]]
[[Category:Host cities of the Commonwealth Games]]
[[Category:Host cities of the Summer Olympic Games]]
[[Category:Melbourne|*]]
[[Category:Metropolitan areas of Australia]]
[[Category:Port cities in Australia]]
[[Category:Settlements established in 1835]]
[[Category:Towns and cities with limited zero-fare transport]]


Hi Risker: Can I take the issue of the [[Seth Finkelstein]] article to a higher court? Are there other options other than re-listing the article at DRV?[[User:Manhattan Samurai|Manhattan Samurai]] ([[User talk:Manhattan Samurai|talk]]) 13:46, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
[[af:Melbourne]]
:Hi Manhattan Samurai. DRV is the last port of call for reviewing deletion decisions. As the most recent discussion has just been closed within the last few hours, it would not serve you well to relist at DRV at this time; you'd need an awful lot more "additional references" on Finkelstein before you have enough to successfully challenge the current status at DRV. I was becoming a bit concerned about your responses on the now-closed one, as you were growing more and more accusatory in your tone, and suggesting allegiances that simply do not exist. (I had to do some research to find out who this Tony Fox was that you thought I sounded like, for instance. I thought you were referring to some late-night positive-attitude lifestyle coach, not another Wikipedia editor.) Before initiating a further DRV, I'd suggest you do some serious introspection about what motivated you to pursue this so vigorously, to the point where you maligned almost everyone who disagreed with you. Seth Finkelstein is a pretty good writer, and he's made some interesting points, but I could say the same thing of hundreds of other marginally notable columnists and commentators, many of whom have a much larger readership than Finkelstein and are quoted more frequently. In the interim, there is the article you have been working on, and which you've been encouraged to continue to develop. There is plenty of room for improvement there, even if there is no link to Seth Finkelstein's name. The redlink to the book is infinitely more important to resolve, and I wish you luck with that. [[User:Risker|Risker]] ([[User talk:Risker#top|talk]]) 14:15, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
[[ar:ملبورن]]
::Yes, I have been distracted from my other work by this DRV debacle. I will have to get back to that.[[User:Manhattan Samurai|Manhattan Samurai]] ([[User talk:Manhattan Samurai|talk]]) 21:00, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
[[be:Горад Мельбурн]]
[[bo:མེར་བུན]]
[[bs:Melbourne]]
[[br:Melbourne]]
[[bg:Мелбърн]]
[[ca:Melbourne]]
[[cv:Мельбурн]]
[[cs:Melbourne]]
[[cy:Melbourne]]
[[da:Melbourne]]
[[de:Melbourne]]
[[et:Melbourne]]
[[el:Μελβούρνη]]
[[es:Melbourne]]
[[eo:Melburno]]
[[eu:Melbourne]]
[[fa:ملبورن]]
[[fr:Melbourne]]
[[ga:Melbourne]]
[[gd:Melbourne]]
[[gl:Melbourne]]
[[ko:멜버른]]
[[hi:मेलबॉर्न]]
[[hr:Melbourne]]
[[id:Melbourne]]
[[is:Melbourne]]
[[it:Melbourne]]
[[he:מלבורן]]
[[jv:Melbourne]]
[[ka:მელბურნი]]
[[sw:Melbourne]]
[[la:Melbournum]]
[[lv:Melburna]]
[[lb:Melbourne (Australien)]]
[[lt:Melburnas]]
[[lij:Melbourne]]
[[hu:Melbourne]]
[[mk:Мелбурн]]
[[ml:മെല്‍ബണ്‍]]
[[mr:मेलबर्न]]
[[ms:Melbourne]]
[[mn:Мельбурн]]
[[nl:Melbourne]]
[[ja:メルボルン]]
[[pih:Melbin]]
[[no:Melbourne]]
[[nn:Melbourne]]
[[oc:Melbourne]]
[[pl:Melbourne]]
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[[ru:Мельбурн]]
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[[simple:Melbourne]]
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[[sr:Мелбурн]]
[[sh:Melbourne]]
[[fi:Melbourne]]
[[sv:Melbourne]]
[[tl:Melbourne]]
[[ta:மெல்பேர்ண்]]
[[th:เมลเบิร์น]]
[[vi:Melbourne]]
[[tr:Melbourne]]
[[uk:Мельбурн]]
[[vo:Melbourne]]
[[zh-yue:墨爾本]]
[[bat-smg:Melborns]]
[[zh:墨尔本]]

Revision as of 02:08, 14 October 2008

Archive #4 - August 1/08 to



Thank god its friday..

And thanks for the backup :) SirFozzie (talk) 05:01, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Tell me about it. You should see the history of this page. On second thought, I think I might just use those shiny tools to clean it up.... Risker (talk) 05:41, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Protection

I semi'd your talk page due to some vandalism. Hope that's okay. seresin ( ¡? ) 03:10, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, Seresin. I'd hoped we'd gotten past that, but it seems I may now become a perennial target. Well, we will see. Risker (talk) 03:27, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
wholey crap. as a tps, that was a busy time in the old watchlist....--Rocksanddirt (talk) 00:38, 9 September 2008 (UTC)


Deletion review for Laurence Baxter

An editor has asked for a deletion review of Laurence Baxter. Since you closed the deletion discussion for this article, speedy-deleted it, or were otherwise interested in the article, you might want to participate in the deletion review. RMHED (talk) 21:28, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

PJ Morton

Hi there, thanks for the feedback. It's nice to be noticed in a good way :) I like to keep an eye on my speedy deletes to see what happens to them. If a bunch get declined I know I'm doing something wrong! justinfr (talk/contribs) 22:59, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Your abuse of rollback

Thank you for experimenting with Wikipedia. Your test worked, and it has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you may want to do. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. 63.46.33.196 (talk) 06:35, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

(Subsequently that post was redeleted by another editor, as it was clearly trolling.) Risker (talk) 20:05, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

RfD

Just an FYI, but I've nominated for deletion a number of sockpuppet category redirects you recently created here. VegaDark (talk) 22:10, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

user page deletion request

Hi Risker, In the past you were so kind as to delete some of my user pages when I asked. Could I ask you now to delete User:Outriggr/metadatatest.js? Here's the catch: can you delete the user page but not the talk page associated with it? Thanks. (I am putting a script out of its misery for the benefit of all wikipedia, if you must know. :-) –Outriggr § 00:52, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Got it right this time, I think, Outriggr. It should be deleted, and I have left the talk page in place. Poor script, I am sure it is in a better place now.  ;-) Risker (talk) 00:59, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
That was fast! You better believe it. Thanks, –Outriggr § 01:05, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Hi Risker, I'm Outriggr's dog's cousin Whiskeydog. Master voted for your RFA largely to obtain a deletion servant ;-), and we are requesting a deletion of my User: and User talk: pages (the latter only if allowed by policy, of course. We aren't that keen on deleting other users' edits, but nevertheless would prefer the talk page deleted). Thanks in advance for your service to wikipedians, including to stubborn doggies. Whiskeydog (talk) 02:35, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Hi Whiskeydog, I'll work on this in a few hours when I'm on the better computer - but check your email as well. I wish this didn't mean what I suspect it means. Risker (talk) 02:50, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
Jay's cries of "Ditto Risker" echo across the cavernous abyss--where Whiskeydog once frolicked--now a suddenly poignant metaphor for his empty, shattered heart. --JayHenry (talk) 03:14, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
Well, Jay, I plan to pick up a good supply of doggie biscuits to try and entice our friends back at some point. I am pretty sure they will be appreciated by Whiskeydog and Dogriggr, but perhaps I should think of an alternative for Outriggr. Any suggestions? [Debates what size MilkBone would be best] Hmm...these are good... Risker (talk) 03:20, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
Well, our poor whiskeypup has a nasty little hangover and he needs more than coffee and a cold shower to cure it. It's not too much whiskey that he's been forced to swallow--he's had to swallow too many frivolous citation requests, too much meaningless metadata, too many editors who interject opinions on subjects they know nothing about, and too many editors who edit for the rules instead of for the readers because they've forgotten the readers exist. So how to get him--and the silent horde like him--to return is to do more to turn back that crimson tide. But how that's done I don't know. --JayHenry (talk) 03:35, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
Nor do I, Jay. I am but one editor, and you another. And yet I keep bumping into editors who feel very much as we do. No, they aren't as active as they once were; the demoralisation has continued. I can recall one time when I was discussing image placement on the main page article, pointing out that on my small screen before I logged on, the pictures were completely out of alignment and interfered with the text. Someone plopped a mysterious guideline in front of me that justified this ridiculous situation - "No, you change your preferences to get the image size right!" Well, duh. And how many casual, non-logged-in readers is that supposed to help? You know, the kind who click on the main page article because it looks interesting...
Intellectually, I can rationalise some of the demands for consistency; it strikes me, however, that many of the metrics are off. Not every page needs an image, and a well written page should be able to qualify for at least a "B" level assessment without one. Infoboxes are useful for some types of articles, but not others, and should never be mandatory. Joopercoopers and Wetman have been working on some alternatives that satisfy both the "Quick Facts" set and the "but it messes up the images/takes up too much space" group. Inline citations are the biggest challenge in my mind. I do agree that contentious information needs to be referenced directly; on the other hand, a huge number of the cite requests I see are for noncontroversial information. Maybe it's just me, but from what I see, the better the article is, the less likely it is to need inline cites. And article assessment! Oh geez, what a debacle that has turned into. Again, it made sense to sort out what articles needed most work, but it seems many wikiprojects are dedicated to assessing but completely useless on the improving part. Conflicting demands from project to project don't help. It's going to get worse, too: some of these projects are reclassifying articles now that we have a "C" class, and I've seen a few pages where the article is rated Start, C, and B by different projects, and even one that was rated both B and Stub! At this stage, as our exponential growth has radically slowed, it's time for people to improve the articles we already have. Putting pretty tags on their talk page doesn't do a darn thing for the reader.
In any case, enough ranting for one night. I shall ensure there is a nice fluffy cushion beside the fireplace for our doggie friends, in the hope that they will return refreshed and reinvigorated, perhaps a few weeks or months from now. To heck with all the meta stuff. It would just be nice to see a page edited by any one of them. Maybe that's what I should ask Santa for... Risker (talk) 04:54, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Re: FYI

Thank you, although I don't know what good it will do? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 01:45, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Unprotection

Hello. As per the (now archived) AN/I discussion Unprotection review, I have been unprotecting the talk pages of anonymous editors that former admin Can't sleep, clown will eat me (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) indefinitely protected back in 2006. I see that in early August you decreased the edit permissions on many of them, but I am now going through and removing all protection from these pages. Regardless, I wanted to let you know what was going on now (just in case the talk pages are on your watchlist) and thank you for your unprotection work of five weeks ago. Kudos to you! --Kralizec! (talk) 15:37, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

My RfA

Thank you for your participation at my RfA, which passed with a count of (166/43/7). I appreciate your comments and in my actions as an administrator I will endeavor to act in ways that earn your full confidence, even though I don't have it now. Cirt (talk) 01:29, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

WP:CIV

Hi Risker, I think your cart before the horse comment is the most sensible one of all given at the civility restriction RfC. I started a discussion at WP:CIV's talk page. Please take a look at the note I left at the Newyorkbrad's page. I would most appreciate your thoughts on how we can improve the situation. Regards, --Irpen 02:41, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Janeyryan

Hi Risker - I saw your post on Lar's talk page, and I hope you don't mind my butting in. I agree that the account looks suspicious, but there's already been a checkuser run on it. The conclusions don't make any more sense to me than they likely do to you, but I wanted to make sure you were aware of it. Sarcasticidealist (talk) 02:06, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, Sarcasticidealist. Those results actually do make a fair amount of sense, but I'll invoke WP:BEANS on why that is. One also has to bear in mind that what was seen seven weeks ago and what would be seen today could well be different things; it's best not to enter into such explorations with anticipation of a specific result. As a matter of course, I am quite hesitant to publicly name the account I suspect, because it could cause harm to the reputation of an innocent editor, while the CU result could potentially identify someone else as being linked to this account. Risker (talk) 04:56, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Ulster Defence Regiment

I am so sorry. I have never used that template before and made an error in nor providing the correct information to assist you. If you'd be kind enough to look in again at [[1]] I have made the request again in the hope that I've got it right this time. The Thunderer (talk) 21:09, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

I really am sorry. Although I'm a reasonably experienced editor I've not had to do this before and I'm not sure where I'm going wrong. I gave the link http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ulster_Defence_Regiment&diff=239848422&oldid=239848419 to show the information which had been removed. It is the text on the left hand side which is highlighted in yellow. BigDunc requested (as can be seen) that I provide citations for this text. Unfortunately I was too busy through the week because of work and I have spent the entire day going through the article trying to satisfy dozens of similar requests as there has been a lot of activity on it this week. Another admin Rockpocket had already reviewed this material during the week as part of a request for 3rd party intervention. He didn't feel it warranted removal and that's why I would respectfully asked that it be returned until it can be properly dealt with when the editprotect is lifted. What should I do now? The Thunderer (talk) 21:32, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
The text you indicated is currently in the article, reference request tags and all. There's nothing for me to add there, since it is already there. I can't add your references because you haven't said what they are. I'm not trying to be confusing here, but the text you want me to insert is already there.
I suggest that you copy that section onto a subpage for the article, add your references in the subpage copy, and discuss that section with your fellow editors. When there is consensus that the section, complete with references, is ready for the article, then an admin can paste it over to the main article. Given that this seems to be the very text over which the edit war has occurred, I'm not going to be mucking about with it. Risker (talk) 21:38, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
Do you know something - you are absolutely and totally correct. That shows how confused I had become. I have looked at that article three times now to find that information and I couldn't. Who was it who said, "sometimes you can't see the wood for the trees"? Because never a truer word was spoken and now I feel like the biggest eejit on Wikipedia. Thank you very much for your patience and your help and I'm sorry to have been a nuisance. I'm sure you've got better things to be getting on with. The Thunderer (talk) 21:55, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
No worries, The Thunderer. Sometimes another pair of eyes is what is needed. I will be AFK for the next hour or so, but if you are uncertain of how to set up the subpage, I'll be happy to do it when I get back online. In the interim, this might be the right time for a late night snack?  :-) Risker (talk) 22:00, 20 September 2008 (UTC)


Your question

I think this may reflect a misunderstanding. Most bots run through independent frameworks (e.g. pyWikipedia), and not through browsers. Even though a bot may be active, in many cases there is no "logged-in browser" at all. In which case there is no risk that someone could walk up to an unattended browser and simply co-opt an admin account. Dragons flight (talk) 17:58, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Not entirely. The block involved in this case was to the admin account for the purpose of stopping the bot being operated under it, and it had exactly that effect. (Expanding) To be clear, in order for the bot to carry out administrative functions, it requires an admin flag. Since one is not issued legitimately (i.e., through BRFA), the only available flag for the unauthorised accounts belongs to the admin him/herself. Risker (talk) 18:03, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
Risker, your response makes little sense to me. So I can only assume that I am misunderstanding what you are intending to communicate. You asked a question about unattended bots. Most bots run unattended (including adminbots) that is simply the nature of the business. At the same time when most bots run, no one is "logged-in" in the traditional sense, i.e. there is generally no web browser or active Wikipedian, except via coincidence that the admin happens to be working at the same time the bot is scheduled to run. A flagged account must exist, but there is no greater risk of that account being comprised than if I had access to your computer after all windows were closed. I'm not at all sure what "effect" you are refering to or what you were trying to get at with your question. Dragons flight (talk) 18:16, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
As it has been explained to me, Dragons flight, the unauthorised adminbots specifically (not bots generally) must be linked to a logged-in administrative account and derive their abilities to carry out admin-restricted tasks from that logged-in administrative account. It is my understanding that if the admin account is logged out, its flag is not available for the bot to use. Perhaps I have completely misunderstood the explanation given to me by two separate bot operators. As to the "effect" point - the effect sought by Prodego was to stop the unauthorised bot. He achieved that effect by blocking Misza13; I assume that is because the needed tools were no longer available to the bot. It strikes me that blocking the admin account is effectively the stop button for these bots. Just one more reason for the admins to get them properly flagged, so that they don't get blocked if their bots go awry for some reason. Risker (talk) 18:35, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
Adminbots running under an admin's account are utilizing the admin's +sysop flag to perform their actions, and will be affected if that admin is blocked. So, yes, blocking the admin account is effectively the "stop button" for adminbots operating on that account. (With the technical caveat, that the ability to block or unblock is unaffected regardless of whether an admin has been blocked, so a blocking bot could only be stopped via desysoping.) But no, the admin does not need to be "logged-in" in the sense that a lay person would understand it. In most cases the bot communicates directly with Wikipedia without using a browser. The admin can log out and close all browsers, but the bot will continue to operate. From a technical point of view, Wikipedia sees the admin as "logged-in" while the bot is communicating, but if you were sitting at the computer there would be no browser or active interface. Dragons flight (talk) 18:49, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks

For taking the trouble. John Nevard (talk) 14:36, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

FYI: [2] --172.191.112.66 (talk) 20:56, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
what does it mean? --Rocksanddirt (talk) 00:01, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
Pay it no heed, Rocksanddirt. You know the drill. ;-) Risker (talk) 00:18, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
I know, but sometimes I do want to know what they are thinking. --Rocksanddirt (talk) 00:21, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
Ah well, I believe it has something to do with enabling and footwear and the strange desire to develop very odd templates. Hmm...templates.... Risker (talk) 00:29, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
sigh - to deep for me I think. --Rocksanddirt (talk) 00:37, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. Now it all makes sense, and like i suspected is to stupid to comment on directly. --Rocksanddirt (talk) 15:03, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Giano II

If Giano gets in more trouble because of me?, I'll do my best to defend him. In fact, I'll take the heat for'em. I had forgotten that he was under sanctions; I'll follow your advice. GoodDay (talk) 23:11, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

PS- When is Giano's probation due to expire? GoodDay (talk) 23:17, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, GoodDay. I know you meant no harm. Giano, it appears, has called it a night; probably wise under the circumstances. The Buck House article, I think, sticks in his craw to the point that he actually removed it from his watchlist at one point. What people forget is, when this article comes up for review, someone will stick a templated message (probably unsigned) on Giano's talk page, fully expecting him to defend the article. Many people do not understand that there is far more to a featured article than inline citations and grammatically correct prose. The best FAs are well-designed pages, with the various elements present in balance in such a way as to have the reader's eye flow from one element to another. But I digress. I'm not entirely certain, but I believe the civility sanction is to expire in early February. Risker (talk) 23:51, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
03:56 on 9 Feb 2009. That day's posts should make interesting reading. – iridescent 23:54, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
No it wont make interesting reading, because the sanction is not existent, only in the minds of those who passed it and their sycophantic friends. It was uncalled for illegal unenforceable and a pure act of malice and spite by those who voted for it. It has made them look ridiculous and damaged the project. 9 Feb 2009 will be no different to any other day in my Wikipedia life, as was 10 Feb 2008. Giano (talk) 16:52, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
Oh, my comment wasn't aimed at you – I don't think you ever change (everyone will have their own opinions on whether that's a good or a bad thing) – but at the Angry Mob who'll gather (on both sides). – iridescent 19:23, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
Hijack away, Iridescent, I do it on your page often enough. It is an interesting question, though. Would it be harder or easier to block Giano after the civility patrol expires? For that matter, how has it worked out in the past? I'm not sure what the precedents are. The community seems to be very undecided about what it means when it comes to civility anymore; the policy is in the middle of rewriting and is every bit as muddy now as it was to start with, it just reflects ever so slightly different views. What with this new proposal for being able to block people from specific pages or areas,. I have a feeling we will be seeing wild blocking sprees of anyone who argues points anywhere. Anything that makes it easier to block people is a bad thing, in my books. Risker (talk) 19:37, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
I am quite sure by the time the "parole" expires the Arbcom, IRC and the Peanut Gallery (one body) will have found to some further way of making themselves appear ridiculous and malicious and extended it. Giano (talk) 07:38, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
Something Giano once said in a very different context works just as well as a civility policy IMO; assume that everyone reading whatever you're writing is a bright 14 year old unless you have evidence to the contrary. Would whatever you're posting be something you'd say to a 14 year old child if you were having a similar conversation face to face? It works surprisingly well. (Says someone with a talkpage full of complaints about my "abusive actions", a lengthy history of adding semi-pornographic images to talkpages and a reputation for foul-tempered sulking and the subject of two recent civility RFCs rivalling Giano's in fatuousness if not length, but you get my drift). – iridescent 19:57, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
Would it be harder or easier to block Giano? It's not really anyone's goal, to block Giano, I hope. Therefore, instrumentalities are kind of... well, too overtly evil for my taste in discussion. I would say that Giano is as blockable as I am or you are, and for the same reasons. I don't think "civility" is grounds for blocking anyone, as any blocking rationale needs to be comprehensible, precise, and clear, and no one who has invoked 'civility' has ever been any of those things about the block. "Disruption" is clearer, in that it requires actions and responses on the part of the affected few, but "civility" is a reason to talk to someone or not talk to someone, not to block or allow someone. Therefore, blocking me or you can be done, if you or I violate policy. If either of us behaves in a manner that causes displeasure to some third party, well, that makes us unpleasant. Sic transit gloria mundi. Geogre (talk) 10:21, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Per User talk:Giano II

Anyways, I'm kind of stuck on it for the time being, and would appreciate whatever can be done. WilyD 17:22, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

RE: Revert to Iredescent's page

Lol, well thanks, I guess. [[::User:Police,Mad,Jack|Police,Mad,Jack]] ([[::User talk:Police,Mad,Jack|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Police,Mad,Jack|contribs]])☺ 18:09, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

AE sanctions concerning Ireland related articles

Wowsers, the boom was lowered on five editors, simultaneously. GoodDay (talk) 23:01, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks, that is honestly the first edit I've made that I knew should be deleted. But I saved it for the right guy! Joshdboz (talk) 00:59, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Joshbod's edit

Hi Cojoco, just to let you know, even Joshbod agreed that his comment should be removed, per his message on my talk page. He was voicing his negative personal opinion about a living person, which is generally frowned on in our policy on biographical information about living people. It's especially important to do that on the talk pages of articles that have already seen very heated editing, to keep the temperature down and keep the focus on the article itself. Hope this explanation helps. Risker (talk) 01:08, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Risker, thanks for your explanation; I only saw your note on Joshbod's talk page after I added my comment to his page. By the way, is this the correct way to carry on a conversation across two user's talk pages? I'm not sure if I should be adding this note here or to my own talk page. Thanks. cojoco (talk) 01:15, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
It can be done many ways, Cojoco. I usually answer on my talk page, unless I have a message that I want to absolutely ensure will be seen and I am not familiar with the editor. I watch all talk pages I post on for a minimum of a week after I post there. The way you have done it works too, although you will see I am answering here and not going back to your talk page. (I figure you have mine on your watchlist now, since you just posted here.) It's good to keep conversations together. Many users will outline their talk page practices at the top of their talk page, you might find that helpful. Risker (talk) 01:28, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Info boxes

If the parameters set the list of iboes required category can then be used to go and systimaticaly add them to articles. People can ignore it, the statement that the primary editor would have added if they wanted it sounds very WP:OWN. My current 'project' is assessing articles tagged with WP Derbyshire, (having previously had a taging period) then going back systematicly fix / expand things, as its more productive thank you. - BulldozerD11 (talk) 20:22, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Bulldozer, no article "needs" an infobox. If you were to actually look at the article you are assessing, and consider what the effect of a userbox would be, you would know that article should not have an infobox. Architectural images are normally larger than that which infoboxes can support, but the larger image is essential for detail, which is described in the article. Further, the infobox would visually unbalance the article. If it is considered essential that all articles within the WP Derbyshire have an infobox, then I suggest you leave the article out of the wikiproject, which also does not WP:OWN the article. Risker (talk) 20:31, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
Agree projects dont own articles, it was the implication that the primary editor has the right to decide wether an article has somthing or not, that implies ownership. So we scrap all the stub articles then as they look unbalanced etc. The project box has been set with the parameter which ime using. Articles grow if people edit them espicaly if they can see a gap in the coverage. If its your pet project you can have it, theres plenty more and i'v got a list of plenty of new ones to creat, was just doing a bit of house keeping with the tag list and resulting articles with no importance assigned. Its too small to worry about for me. Bye - BulldozerD11 (talk) 21:21, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
Um, yes. There are very few stub articles that benefit from an infobox; I have seen several that have more information in the infobox than the article, which is absolutely the wrong way to do things. The one exception may be something like the near-earth asteroid project, which is bot-created, but even still the article with its refs is pretty well as long as the infobox; in any case, those are more very short but essentially complete articles than stubs. Risker (talk) 21:28, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Removal of {{prod}} from Citot

By an IP address no less (not prohibited by the guidelines, mind you). I would certainly add my d to your AfD. Bongomatic (talk) 08:54, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

restoral of same BLP stuff

User:MediaLawyer has restored part of the BLP content that was deleted per a OTRS ticket, insisting on inserting the Walmart lawsuit and using low quality sources. He made no prior discussion on the talk page. --Enric Naval (talk) 18:12, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks!

Thanks for the reply's on my talk page. I saw that blp discussion somewhere (lar's?, AN/I?) and just went to delete the blp stuff. The whole article really blows, but I was tired and didn't have the energy to really fix it. --Rocksanddirt (talk) 21:01, 6 October 2008 (UTC) and the vandalism revert...I didn't even see that....--Rocksanddirt (talk) 21:04, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm a PC

Risker, can you change your protection to full or remove it and block the IP? We don't use semi protection to block out IP users from edit wars. If there's a legitimate 3RR report then the user can be blocked, we shouldn't stop every single IP or autoconfirmed user from editing the page just because one is edit warring with the page creator. Ryan PostlethwaiteSee the mess I've created or let's have banter 18:35, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough, Ryan; thanks for the advice. Will review quickly and change to one or the other. Risker (talk) 18:37, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
Cheers Risker. I'm planning on bringing all the parties together so we can try and settle the dispute but there's just so much going on that I don't know where to start. There's a 3RR report here that you might find useful. I've had a chat with Arcayne because he's hit three reverts and I think he's fairly frustrated that the IP won't discuss its edits. Arcayne is making a good effort to get some discussion going on the talk page. Ryan PostlethwaiteSee the mess I've created or let's have banter 18:40, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
On looking at it, the anonymous editor is so far over 3RR, with multiple editors reverting him/her, that I have elected to block rather than fully protect. As well, I note some other beneficial editing happening that does not appear to be related to the dispute, and don't want to pour cold water on that. If you can persuade the IP editor to participate in talk page discussion rather than returning to edit warring, I would have absolutely no problem with you unblocking. Risker (talk) 18:45, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
Nor would I, but I am thinking that, judging from the responses in the 3RR complaint, the anon might need to distance himself from the article for a bit, so as to gain some perspective. Granted, I'm no princess here, but not being able to take the hit for your bad behavior is a pretty clear sign that perspective is needed. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 18:50, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
As an aside, were you going to conclude the AN/3RR report, as you've blocked the IP? - Arcayne (cast a spell) 18:57, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
Well, I posted the result, but I have to log off in a minute; if there are fancy templates to be added please feel free. Ryan, by the way, check your email. Risker (talk) 19:00, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

User:MediaLawyer

I have been reviewing his case due to his recent unblock request. As far as I can tell, the information added to the Richie Ramone article was referenced to reliable sources, and fairly neutrally presented. Could you perhaps elaborate more fully how his October 1st edit: [4], led you to block him 3 days later: [5]. I am quite confused, and if you have additional information that led to the block, to which is not obvious, please post it on his talk page so that I or another admin can act on his unblock request. Thank you! --Jayron32.talk.contribs 02:18, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Stand by please, Jayron32, I am conferring with the OTRS person who took the ticket to clarify the situation and make sure my memory is correct. I see the other editor who was previously involved seems to be back as well, and that will have to be addressed as well. In the interim, you might want to read the archived talk page. Risker (talk) 02:44, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. I have been reading up on it. It looks like he only made a single edit since the OTRS deletion; could we not just warn him not to return the information to the article? This may be a deeper issue, and I await your info on the OTRS situation. Thanks! --Jayron32.talk.contribs 02:49, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Seth Finkelstein article

Hi Risker: Can I take the issue of the Seth Finkelstein article to a higher court? Are there other options other than re-listing the article at DRV?Manhattan Samurai (talk) 13:46, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi Manhattan Samurai. DRV is the last port of call for reviewing deletion decisions. As the most recent discussion has just been closed within the last few hours, it would not serve you well to relist at DRV at this time; you'd need an awful lot more "additional references" on Finkelstein before you have enough to successfully challenge the current status at DRV. I was becoming a bit concerned about your responses on the now-closed one, as you were growing more and more accusatory in your tone, and suggesting allegiances that simply do not exist. (I had to do some research to find out who this Tony Fox was that you thought I sounded like, for instance. I thought you were referring to some late-night positive-attitude lifestyle coach, not another Wikipedia editor.) Before initiating a further DRV, I'd suggest you do some serious introspection about what motivated you to pursue this so vigorously, to the point where you maligned almost everyone who disagreed with you. Seth Finkelstein is a pretty good writer, and he's made some interesting points, but I could say the same thing of hundreds of other marginally notable columnists and commentators, many of whom have a much larger readership than Finkelstein and are quoted more frequently. In the interim, there is the article you have been working on, and which you've been encouraged to continue to develop. There is plenty of room for improvement there, even if there is no link to Seth Finkelstein's name. The redlink to the book is infinitely more important to resolve, and I wish you luck with that. Risker (talk) 14:15, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I have been distracted from my other work by this DRV debacle. I will have to get back to that.Manhattan Samurai (talk) 21:00, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
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