User:TallMagic

If you want to leave me a message please do it on my talk page.

Thank you, TallMagic 22:27, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

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Continued Analysis of Reliable Sources Involving KWU and the word Mill

Results 1 - 100 of about 184,000 for "kennedy western university" -mill here's the Google search used for KWU without the word mill in it

Looking through the first 100 I found three reliable sources. All three were negative for KWU. Most links in the first 100 looked like advertisements for KWU.

1. here's a quote from the first reliable source

Perhaps best known is Kennedy-Western University, focus of a U.S. Senate Governmental Affairs Committee investigation last year. Claudia Gelzer, a committee staffer, testified that Kennedy-Western gave her 43 percent of the course credit toward a master's in environmental science based on her bachelor's in journalism and 12 years in the Coast Guard.

"In other words, Kennedy-Western was prepared to waive six master's-level classes in engineering based solely on my claims of professional training," she told the committee.

Only an open-book, multiple-choice test with 100 questions was required for credit in hazardous waste management; same with environmental law and regulatory compliance.

"With just 16 hours of study, I had completed 40 percent of the course requirements for a master's degree," she said. http://www.billingsgazette.com/newdex.php?display=rednews/2005/01/30/build/wyoming/40-online-learning.inc

2. GAO Investigation Testimony http://www.senate.gov/~gov_affairs/index.cfm?Fuseaction=Hearings.Testimony&HearingID=176&WitnessID=633&suppresslayouts=true

3. Here's reliable source about a KWU degree that did the Time Bomb thing that John Bear talked about here. http://archive.mailtribune.com/archive/2006/0120/local/stories/05local.htm

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Here's a search of University of Virgina. Results 1 - 100 of about 3,150,000 for "University of Virginia". here's the Google search results

Out of the first 100 hits, they were all hits on the University of Virginia websites.

What does this all mean? I believe it further demonstrates that the large body of reliable sources available to us Wikipedians for the WNU article is negative towards WNU. Therefore it is normal and to be expected that the Wikipedia article should be generally negative. This is the normal fallout to be expected when following the WP:V and WP:NPOV policies that must be followed when editting Wikipedia. TallMagic 04:36, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

GAO Investigation Notes

Following is info from the Google search [1]

Claudia Gelzer's testimony here http://senate.gov/~gov_affairs/index.cfm?Fuseaction=Hearings.Testimony&HearingID=176&WitnessID=632

"Gelzer also said that the coursework was shoddy and superficial. Jason Booth, who identified himself as a representative for Kennedy-Western after the hearing, said the information presented at the hearing was "hearsay" and was based on a few isolated incidents." http://govexec.com/dailyfed/0504/051204d1.htm

“As for my first-hand experience with Kennedy-Western courses and passing the tests, I found that basic familiarity with the textbook was all I needed. I was able to find exam answers without having read a single chapter of the text. As for what I learned, the answer is very little. “ http://www.davickservices.com/Some%20Officials%20Not%20What%20They%20Seem.htm

"The school did not check any of Gelzer’s claims on her application,", "Coast Guard Lt. Cdr. Claudia Gelzer, who holds a legitimate master’s degree in environmental public policy and worked as an investigator on detail to the committee, enrolled in Kennedy-Western. She said the school earned almost $25 million in 2003, has nearly 10,000 students currently enrolled and claims that about 20 federal agencies have paid for its degrees." duplicate of reference already in article

Cheyenne alone is home to six distance-learning schools, five within a few blocks of each other. A typical example is Paramount University of Technology, with a couple offices in the basement of a sleepy downtown mall. At the end of the street, American City University occupies a couple rooms of an ornate, Victorian-era building that once housed a brothel.

Perhaps best known is Kennedy-Western University, focus of a U.S. Senate Governmental Affairs Committee investigation last year. Claudia Gelzer, a committee staffer, testified that Kennedy-Western gave her 43 percent of the course credit toward a master's in environmental science based on her bachelor's in journalism and 12 years in the Coast Guard.

"In other words, Kennedy-Western was prepared to waive six master's-level classes in engineering based solely on my claims of professional training," she told the committee.

"With just 16 hours of study, I had completed 40 percent of the course requirements for a master's degree," she said.

Some states go even further by penalizing people who use degrees from unaccredited schools. North Dakota, Oregon and New Jersey have criminal or civil penalties for people who apply for certain jobs and list academic credentials the state doesn't recognize. <ref name="gazette"/>

probably not useful

http://www.casperstartribune.net/articles/2004/08/05/news/wyoming/843f046c71bb1dfa87256ee60003f34c.txt

http://www.federaltimes.com/index2.php?S=232132

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/education/2002174735_diploma09.html

http://www.osac.state.or.us/oda/diploma_mill.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6935318/

http://www.redorbit.com/news/education/473378/dubious_degrees/

GAO Investigation

The findings of an investigation by the U.S. General Accounting Office (GAO) to determine whether the federal government had paid for degrees from diploma mills and other unaccredited postsecondary schools were presented in 2004 to a U.S. Senate committee. "On the second day of the hearings, the panel heard from a former employee of a diploma mill, Kennedy-Western University in California, and a committee investigator who had enrolled to get a master’s degree in environmental engineering from it." The former employee, Andrew Coulombe, testifying to the U.S. Senate Committee on Governmental Affairs, described his feeling that his work there was unethical and summarized it thus: "I can tell you that there is no value to a Kennedy-Western education. Anything you learn there can be learned by buying a book and reading it on your own." The investigator, Coast Guard Lt Cmdr Claudia Gelzer, testified that WNU gave her life experience credit towards a master's in environmental public policy. WNU waived 43% of the course credit required for the degree based only on her application. She testified that WNU didn't check any of her claimed work experience. With 16 hours of effort she was able to earn 40% of the total coursework required for her master's. “As for my first-hand experience with Kennedy-Western courses and passing the tests, I found that basic familiarity with the textbook was all I needed. I was able to find exam answers without having read a single chapter of the text. As for what I learned, the answer is very little. “ As a result of the scrutiny, 463 federal employees were disciplined or terminated for using dubious degrees that were paid for with Federal tax money.

Kennedy-Western was not invited to testify before the Senate. The university's Director of Corporate Communications, David Gering, stated to The Oregonian, "We clearly believe that we are not a diploma mill and have an academically rigorous program." Mr. Gering also stated to the The Times of Northwest Indiana, in response to the GAO report, "...the government report has lumped a legitimate school in with less credible schools." "Jason Booth, who identified himself as a representative for Kennedy-Western after the hearing, said the information presented at the hearing was "hearsay" and was based on a few isolated incidents." <ref>http://govexec.com/dailyfed/0504/051204d1.htm