Talk:In Rainbows

Untopiced talk

I'm not altogether certain if the album has leaked yet.. I realize it's all speculative but I haven't found any information anywhere that could suggest that it has, in print or on the internet.

Yeah I just noticed that too. I haven't heard that anywhere either. I posted about it at ateaseweb (radiohad site message board) but the site seems to be going up and down at the moment. Also make sure you sign your posts with four tildes if you are registered (hold shift and hit the key to the left of 1 four times). MDuchek 18:32, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I find ErleGrey's cleanup to be rather subjective. "Up on the Ladder" really isn't a likely candidate for LP7, whereas "Burn the Witch," which he deleted, is very likely. Same thing for "Big Boots." If you don't think these merit their own pages that is fine, but to delete a song like "Burn the Witch" in favor of extremely unlikely ones like "Big Boots" is pretty subjective. Just my two cents. I of course appreciate any effort to make things clear and concise.MDuchek 23:24, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I think the third list was more likely than the second list, but still speculative. If I'm not mistaken, stuff like "Reckoner" and "Follow Me Around" are more historic entities. I added back "Burn the Witch"; could you provide some details/sources? –Pomte 23:37, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I think the main ones are already there (a link to the pic of the blackboard at Radiohead's blog). I mean we could source this to death but all the sources are basically www.radiohead.com/deadairspace and the singer (Thom) has made various posts with what appear to be lyrical references to songs like "Burn the Witch." I personally don't care enough to get in an edit war with anyone, I just thought fans might like more rather than less information. My opinion is that "Big Boots" deserves an article but is not likely for LP7. MDuchek 23:54, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't think any of these songs deserves an article-to do so would be highly speculative-see WP:CRYSTAL BALL. Besides, most of these songs are already listed on this page, and it's not really the job of this page or Wikipedia in general to list every single song that the band has ever worked on or let slip information to the public. Seriously, including songs like Burn the Witch, Payday, or even Ed's Scary Song is not very smart, to say the every least. The only use for the blackboard image would be as a See Also, if anyone has the time or cares enough to dig it out. The focus of the article, at least until further information is known-even then for a short time-is to provide general information on recording, as any extreme detail is much more suitable for Dead Air Space or fansites, neither of which Wikipedia is. ErleGrey 01:12, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

I respectfully disagree. Burn the Witch a) was listed on the songs they're working on in 2005, b) was listed on their tour rehersal list in 2006, and c) Thom has referred to it as recently as February this year (although I admit it doesn't mean it will appear on the album). Big Boots and I promise both have basically not been heard from in over 10 years (except for the stray BB performance in '02). So how you delete the former (Witch) but leave the latter (BB/I Promise)? Yeah something like "Ed's Scary Song" shouldn't be up there cuz who knows what if anything that is, but if you're going to delete everything that's on a recent songs blackboard and leave stuff that is probably abandoned, I just don't think that makes sense. My view is if you carefully say what is what it's not something to fight over, but if we're going to take a really restrictive view you should just delete everything that wasn't played live in 2006. My two cents. MDuchek 03:02, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Any suspected release date?--JD5568 20:17, 21 May 2007 (UTC) early 2008 ive read:( There should be an article on videotape because thom released it as a single solo work.— Preceding unsigned comment added by JD5568 (talk • contribs)

I've made a little variation: "Enhanced CD" instead of "Bonus discc". I've simply written the name they used to call it in their official website. The meaning is a little bit different. I've also added 'digital photographs' and 'artwork' 'cause it's what 'enhanced cd' contains (as it's written on the official website). That's it.

Nigel Godrich and Spike Stent

The article says that the initial sessions were with Spike Stent. I thought that the 2005 session were produced by Nigel Godrich.--Merijn2 18:05, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

They weren't. They were recorded with Stent.

No album untill 2008?

According to this site, the new album will not be released until 2008.

Jsn.360 21:09, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Unreferenced song list

A big list of songs that the band has played recently (or not so recently) isn't a reliable source that they are potentially on the album. If Johnny said "we're recording some of the songs we've been playing on tour," then that's a source. If not, the list violates WP:OR and WP:BALL and we don't need it. Certainly the "considered highly unlikely" list should be out. Staecker 01:31, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Reinstate the song list

I disagree. Bands always preview new songs before/while/after they record them. The Strokes played many songs from their last two albums before they were released, Muse has done the same, along with Coldplay, the Raconteurs, and many more. It's just common. I think having the list of songs up there is cool and gives the fans an idea of what's going to be on there. I don't think the "violations" really matter here, because you'd have to clean up about every article involving a band who's recording otherwise. Also, his name is JONNY, no H.

The violations do matter- they reflect core values of Wikipedia which should only be discarded with good reason. If other articles contain original research and crystal balling then we should fix them too. But here we're talking about this article, and we should do what we can to make it better. Unreferenced ideas about the future do not make it better. And sorry about Johnny- I should know better. Staecker 00:48, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

I frankly agree with posting songs' list which were played during 2006 tour. It's unknown if they're all going to be released on the forthcoming album, but I think it's an important information though. More important than Yorke's interest to cover Bjork... Anyway, those songs represent a step of LP7 making process either if they won't be released. (Molonovo)

Thank you for placing the songs back up. I remind everyone that bands do this all of the time. And when you think logically, these are "possible" tracks. This isn't the tracklisting. As long as there is a source (them playing them live) and it's not some made up gobblygook these are all "POSSIBLE" tracks for the next album. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.73.184.201 (talk) 08:56, August 30, 2007 (UTC)

Well, you guys aren't really responding to my point, so I'll try to clarify. Wikipedia does not allow original research (OR), that is, editors inserting their own deductions or conclusions or analyses of existing information. Please take a look at that policy page. Of course I don't contest that Radiohead has been playing these tracks. But when you start using "when you think logically" to back up the article's claims, this is a classic OR defense. If it's so obvious, then find a verifiable source which states the same information. If there is no verifiable source, then take it out. The claim that it's "important information" is also not helpful- nonverifiable information cannot be included regardless of how "important" it is (or would be if verifiable).

Since I don't expect you to be convinced, and this will all be moot once the tracks are announced (hopefully not too far off now), I'm going to stop arguing. I left the list in the article, but removed the suggestions that these are likely tracks on the album (which is the OR part). Staecker 12:20, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

I think that's probably the best. I think fans want to come to this page and see what tracks may be up there. These are the songs out of that huge list that are truly probable to show up on the new album so these should be listed as the possible tracks. I don't think there's any OR on that. It's just possible tracks, and these are all possible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Laynethebangs (talk • contribs) 17:17, August 30, 2007 (UTC)

Well it's possible that they'll put a cover of Revolution 9 on there. Why not include that on the list? Because we're only listing as possible the tracks that they've been playing recently, and that is absolutely OR unless it is sourced. What "fans want" shouldn't trump policies. Staecker 20:23, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes, that's totally possible. We should put it up there. I could seriously see them doing an awesome version of that. But you took what I said of out context, you're so intent on proving this point that you're simplifing what the "pro-song list reinstaters" have said without thinking through them. I respect Wikipedia's policies but having this song list is doing no harm. Above all, it is informing people. Isn't that what Wikipedia is for? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Laynethebangs (talk • contribs) 07:00, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't really understand why "All I Need" has been deleted from the unreleased tracklisting. Why? 'Cause it's not included in the citation's article?? That source has not relevance at all. "All I Need" was played live and it's an unreleased track. This is not science fiction. This is a fact. Then, if it will be on the new album or not is another theme of discussion (and I agree with you about that, Staecker). But it's not the actual point, I think. Maybe I've not understood the "wikipedia-posting-method"... Sources are more important than facts? I guess that article was written before "All I Need" had been played.(Molonovo) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Molonovo (talk • contribs) 14:25, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Well guys, there was the famous photograph of the blackboard with song they'd recorded at that time, so if All I Need is on that, that is the source. It's on the Dead-Air-page, and if you can't find it there, on ateaseweb.com as well (need to search a little bit...but well) BTW, it's more likely that a recently played song(as All I Need) is on the LP than a never ever stated song (as Revolution 9)82.210.245.181 —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 17:45, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Yeah... But the real point is that they played that song and it is unreleased. I think we could change the section's title in "Live 2006" instead of "Potential songs"... Anyway I have to say that this page SUCKS. What about the "Website" section!?!? All about that site is anything less than huge hoax! Nothing official about it 'til now. Its presence on the official wikipedia rh's page is embrassing. And what about record's label!?!? Who said it will be released on Island Records?? Maybe it's in some article full of bullshit... But I've to see that is enough for a correct wikipedia information... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Molonovo (talk • contribs) 09:44, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

The album "In Rainbows" features 10 traks. The other 8 tracks are called under the name of "extra stuff" (it's clearly written on the official website) and they will be released in a bonus disc which contains pictures and artwork too. That enhanced cd is not "In Rainbows". It's something extra. Then I've made a little bit variations. Ok? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Molonovo (talk • contribs) 13:28, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

I think you're <Personal attack> 96.226.41.152 22:11, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Do not make personal attacks — Matt Eason ^{(Talk &#149; Contribs)} 22:28, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, person(s) here who said crystal ball this and crystal ball that, well guess what? *Everything* they played on that tour is on this new album/the bonus disc. The fact is, the unique thing about this site is that it lets people who know topic X best to write about it. So maybe the rules should be a bit more flexible or giving reasons for speculation, but as we now see it wasn't speculation, it was fans who knew that based on their experience (i.e., with the 2002 tour) that those songs were likely candidates for the new album. So I think those of us who said that list should be up here were proven right, and yeah there should be a statement of the basis for this kind of speculation, but it really (the track listing) wasn't a big surprise. MDuchek 19:40, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

<Personal attack>. 71.244.27.100 21:18, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

I've also noticed you've done absolutely no work on the article otherwise, <Personal attack>, MDuchek. Stuck between a rock and a hard place, eh? 71.244.27.100 —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 21:55, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

I won't respond to the unsigned attacks of course, but just wanted to say I didn't mean to attack the rule enforcer(s) here. It is good that there are rules and standards and people who enforce them, but I think the rules are not well-equipped to deal with certain topics. If you were at a concert and heard Thom say something, for instance, is that "personal research?" A lot of stuff dealing with music may be based off of live recordings made by fans, and how do you cite to things like that? On a side note, I also noticed at one point an article was cited that cited Dead Air Space. That's not independent verification, that's just citing something that is citing what was already cited (if that makes sense). Anyway, I know Wikipedia is still an experiment but my point is that for certain topics like this, there is no media or book source that is more accurate than fans who know and love the band and its music. I'd love (constructive) responses on this if anyone has them. Thanks. MDuchek 17:18, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

We can't do things that way. Wikipedia isn't an "experiment", either; we have well over 2 million articles and a raft of well-established guidelines and policies that are to be used to guide the creation and maintenance of articles. It's made quite clear by those policies that we can't rely solely on the knowledge of individual contributors... anything that's stated needs to be verifiable with a reliable, published source. This includes the band's official blog, and well-known industry sources like HMV, MTV or the BBC, but it precludes opinioneering and claims the go along the lines of, "well, Thom told me that..." from random individuals who could be lying, drunk, or both. This is an encyclopedia, not your personal blog or the At Ease forums or any of the other things stated at Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not. -/- Warren 22:56, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

I've removed the word "bonus"

First of all, it's a cheap word. Second, Radiohead themselves don't use the word to describe the second CD of material. See http://www.inrainbows.com/Store/MoreInfo.html?PID=2 ... <span style="color:blue;font-weight:bold;font-family: Monotype Corsiva;"; -/- Warren 13:22, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

On the other hand, it's the de facto standard on Wikipedia for noting which tracks or discs are included as extras, often only on some releases. The current working "Enhanced CD" is much less clear. It can easily be interpreted to mean that this is an enhanced version of the standard CD. For these reasons, I think the "bonus" designator should be restored. --PEJL 16:46, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

I dropped the heading and used this instead: "The discbox release of In Rainbows includes a second Enhanced CD, which contains eight additional tracks:" with a reference to the appropriate page on Radiohead's web site. I think this will be more clear about what's going on. Wikipedia's conventions don't really apply here -- if the artist doesn't call it a bonus disc, then we shouldn't either. -/- Warren 17:15, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

There should be a heading, per WP:ALBUM#Track listing. Why wouldn't Wikipedia's conventions apply? We can call it a bonus disc if it is a bonus disc, even if the artist doesn't call it that. --PEJL 17:52, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

It hasn't been released yet!

It's still October 9, 2007, the album is released tommorrow, not today!

It certainly has been.

I just downloaded it from the official website and i say it's kickass!--Flaaaaaaaaaaaming! 12:21, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Just to clarify, it was released on 10/10/07 in the UK; at about 5:30, which means for people in the US (at least us on the west coast) got it on 10/9/07. Apolloae 21:42, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Citations for use

• Five star review at Guardian Unlimited. - Liquidfinale ^{(Ţ) (Ç) (Ŵ)} 14:02, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

• Times review - Liquidfinale ^{(Ţ) (Ç) (Ŵ)} 14:04, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

• 4 star review of the album and the context of its release at Twisted Ear M thomp2001 10:55, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Album artwork

Per this article: http://www.nme.com/news/31645 the album does not yet have artwork. I noticed earlier this morning the image was Image:InRainbows_Cover.jpg and now it is Image:InRainbows-small.jpg - The small appears to reflect at least one of the LP jackets on the inrainbows website. Thoughts? Selcouth 17:58, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

The small one seems right, based on the discbox photo, though I wish that it was higher resolution...all of my album art stored on my computer for iTunes is 250x250. Any clue where the picture came from/if it was scaled down? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.26.97.203 (talk) 18:26, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Not sure where it came from, but I know for fair use it must be small/low quality. Selcouth 19:15, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Wait for the artwork that has been talked about to be revealed before adding anything. The smaller cover is one of the cases for the vinyl discs. Due to its position in the photo, it is probably even the second vinyl cover. So it is not good enough to be included as cover art. U-Mos 18:58, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, leave it blank you think? Selcouth 19:15, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

I give up. They keep changing it back. Selcouth 20:19, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Just leave it out, if someone decides something that's not necessarily right people will end up whining...I'm sure there will be something more official out there soon. Apolloae 21:44, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Found a larger one from 'rateyourmusic.com'

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/9680/1052924vo5.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.172.54.208 (talk) 23:53, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Here is a higher resolution one from rateyourmusic.com [1] They have been reliable for early album covers in the past. - kollision 02:15, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

A couple of points, 1.) I've just read the NME article (linked above) but I can't find the bit that says the album doesn't yet have artwork. Did you mean the 3rd paragraph? If you did then that paragraph could also be saying "the £40 discbox will have artwork", "the £40 discbox will have more artwork", "the second enhanced CD on the £40 discbox will have artwork" and "the second enhanced CD on the £40 discbox will have more artwork" None of those say that the current download album doesn't have artwork. If you didn't mean the 3rd paragraph can you quote which bit you did mean? 2.) It occurs to me that the download album just won't have cover art in some sense of the phrase "cover art" but that there is clearly some art associated with it. Why not step back and have a think about whether it should or shouldn't be added and address the wider problem of what to use for download-only albums. Unless this discussion has already been had somewhere else and something was already decided, I suggest that anyone with a view that some art should or shouldn't be in the article add a comment below with what their reasoning is Replenished entry 13:56, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

You see, in general something download only would come with official art eg, of the top of my head, the Muse singles Stockholm Syndrome and Map of the Problematique. This album doesn't, which leads to the difficulty. Or it would if it wasn't for the fact that we KNOW that Donwood has worked on art for the album, and we have yet to see this artwork. Therefore in this case no art should be added until this "proper" cover is released. U-Mos 15:14, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

You "KNOW that Donwood has worked on art for the album, and we have yet to see this artwork". What are you basing that on? Replenished entry 00:02, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

He's said as much - he talks about it here. — Matt Eason ^{(Talk &#149; Contribs)} 00:17, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I see what you mean. Is it possible he's talking about all the artwork (the multiple images that will be included, not necessarily the album cover) for the discbox that hasn't been released yet though? The blurb for the discbox on the In Rainbows site [2] says

"A SECOND, ENHANCED CD CONTAINS MORE NEW SONGS, ALONG WITH DIGITAL PHOTOGRAPHS AND ARTWORK.THE DISCBOX ALSO INCLUDES ARTWORK"

Is it possible the artwork mentioned is what he's referring to? Replenished entry 00:58, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm removing the cover art (this one) because it's clearly not official - the typeface is completely different to that on the official discbox photo we have (here - look at the 'R' in 'RAINBOWS') and there's no space after the very first 'IN' on the offical image ('IN/ RAINBOWS' as opposed to 'IN / RAINBOWS'). — Matt Eason ^{(Talk &#149; Contribs)} 00:34, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

I've also removed the comment which says that the artwork came from Radiohead's "official fansite". Green Plastic is not official - they even say so in their FAQ: "No, this is an unofficial site and I'm proud of it." — Matt Eason ^{(Talk &#149; Contribs)} 00:45, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

As you say, you have a photo [3] and it's of the official discbox. It has what looks like an album cover on it. Would it be an idea to use that? Replenished entry 00:58, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

There's a difference between a photo of the discbox set and the front cover of the actual album. Fairly good difference bud. Vanishdoom 01:21, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Could you explain what the difference is? The front cover of the actual album is a physical object made of material that isn't possible to uploaded on to a web site as it's not in digital form. Given that, for fair use, the album cover art needs to be a "low-resolution image" [4] of the cover and the photo shows an image of what appears to be the album cover (and can easily be converted to low res), can you explain the difference? Replenished entry 02:02, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

The German version of the article

was nominated for deletion, and it was deleted!... wow, that's... incomprehensible. -/- Warren 22:03, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Good god. I really want to read that translated now. What possible reason could they have?! Phyte 12:28, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

I put it through babelfish. It's still incomprehensible, but now it's incomprehensible in english. mattbuck 14:06, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

The submitter thought the album might turn out to be non-notable.

The admin doing the deletion found the article to be non-perfect ("zu wenig", too little). Articles which are not perfect are obviously verboten by de:WP:MA (the relevant guideline), so it was dutifully removed (vote was 5:3 for keep btw). --193.254.155.48

Protection

Where is the vandalism that made someone protect the page? I went through the history but I can't find anything that the vandalism help page says is vandalism Replenished entry 23:33, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

People are constantly putting up fake covers for the album. Vanishdoom 23:41, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

That's no reason to protect it though. They aren't bad faith edits.

It doesn't look like they're deliberately making fake album art and then trying to upload it to try and destroy Wikipedia or damage the article though. separate people that want to contribute to the article are adding what they think is the genuine cover art because they see the article doesn't have any cover art. Or am I misreading it? Are you saying that there's some kind of bad attempt conspiracy or group of people trying to add fake pictures to it? It's silly to shut the article down because of genuine attempts by people to improve it, thats not what the protection page says the protection is for Replenished entry 23:55, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

It wasn't my move to protect it, but considering that fake covers have been taken down a dozen times now, it was getting old real fast, especially with no sign of the actual cover art being released yet. Vanishdoom 00:16, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Glad I saw this discussion... I was about to upload a screenshot of inrainbows.com as an album cover. I guess I agree that leaving it blank is a good idea, but probably many people like me are looking for cover art to use in itunes or Amarok, and come here looking for it. Too bad there is not a better way to let people know its blank for a reasonTgoff 00:26, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Are you sure it was a dozen times? I looked through the older edits when I tried to edit earlier and I couldn't because it was locked because of vandalism and I read them to check the vandalism. I didn't think it had been added a dozen times and I thought it had stopped after someone added a warning. Is there a way to see all the changes in one page easily, or all the image changes? I had an idea - why doesn't someone add something to the article about how there isn't any album art because it's been released on the net - isn't that newsworthy? I would add something myself but I can't edit because it's been locked. Or couldn't you add an image that says "there is no album art for this article because the album art has not been released" or something along those lines. Or make a template for albums that don't have album art and add it, I'm sure there will be more in the future Replenished entry 00:34, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

LOL - I just looked at the blank cover art template. It invites you to add cover art. That's funny! Why get annoyed and lock a page when well meaning people do something they're invited to do. Change the image to "OMG PLEASE DON'T ADD ANY ALBUM ART FOR GOD'S SAKE BECAUSE THERE ISN'T ANY!!!!!", then complain when people still add it Replenished entry 00:39, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

I am being bold and unprotecting this page. There have been very few (maybe no) bad faith edits- people are adding official Radiohead-produced promotional images to the "album cover" slot in the infobox. That doesn't hurt the article at all- it just violates the general purpose of the infobox. It may be worth reverting (maybe even several times a day), but it isn't worth locking the page down. Staecker 11:35, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

I think there's a wider issue here of what cover art is and how that relates to download albums. I've left a comment above in the "Album artwork" section inviting comment. Replenished entry 13:59, 11 October 2007 (UTC)