Talk:Rongorongo/archive 1

Style 1

I've rewritten most of the article, but occasionally got signed out before saving my changes, and only my IP address was recorded in the page history, so here's my user name in case anyone has issues with what I've done: kwami 20:52, 2005 July 23 (UTC)

Several spelling mistakes and stylistically doubtful sentences. It's 4 a.m. and I'm dead tired but will be back here again soon.--Targeman 01:54, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

The article seems to have become quite a mess after loads of recent edits. --Drieakko 06:43, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Dear Kwamikagami Informations about rongorongo are running very kickly with internet. We are the new generation on invetigators (from 1992 for me : 14 years hard studies on all the data base, and from 2004 conclusions bored by the anglo saxon system... Before a north american group blocked informations so only Steven Fisher tesis was "kind of law". At the contrary we are given withness documents, historics documents, linguistics informations. Now with internet we can go ahead. Wikipedia in french is going to a correct information for websurfers, but in english and spanish, what a lot of mistakes, blabla... Its hurting the human rights of polynesian people and particulary rapanui people. So a good cleaning of the pages is necessary. Polynesian group linguists and Lorena Bettocchi writing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.161.46.37 (talk) 12:15, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Todo el texto de la pagina deberia ser revisado, hay algunas faltas inaceptables - y ademas la bibliografia es muy incompleta. Hay muchas publicaciones importantes sobre la escritura rongorongo (talk) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.161.46.37 (talk) 02:36, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Que es un rongorongo mama ? Una invencion ? Notas de Katherine Routledge ? Recopiadas por Fisher en su lista de Rapanui Journal ? No existe el rongorongo mama. Observamos que los links con los sitios internet de los investigadores fueron borrados. Habia un sitio sobre nuestra historia en el diaporama provisorio de Lorena Bettocchi [[1]] fue borrado. Es una nueva manera de borrar lo que queda al pueblo rapanui. (talk)

Rongorongo, New Zealand

I have placed a link at the top of the article as a link to Rongorongo (wife of Turi), an ancestress of the Māori of New Zealand. This is to save having a disambiguation page. If there is a better solution just let me know. Kahuroa 10:58, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

No, that's good. kwami 11:14, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

our greatest maori

1. Just wondering if we could have a clarification of what 'maori' means in Rapa Nui?
2. Is there a source that this statement attributed to Hotu Matu'a comes from? Kahuroa 00:21, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

RESPONSE : MAORI in ARERO RAPA NUI IS PEOPLE MAORI AND ALSO MASTER —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.161.46.37 (talk) 01:53, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Maori and Hotu

Dear Kahuroa,

In the first place, maori, in that context, was probably used to designate a very wise man. In the second, these are not attestable by any account. They come from scholarly forms of folklore and it is a quotation of Hotu Matu'a much in the same way Et tu, Brute? is a quotation of Julius Caesar. I'd appreciate if you didn't erase it, though. It's making a point. Hope you can get to Italy.

Sincerely,

Mbrutus 03:50, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

• Actually Et tu Brute is a quote from William Shakespeare, from his play Julius Caesar, Act III, scene 1 - not sure if JC actually said it at all. In the same way there must be a written source (or how else do we know about it?) for this 'quote' from Hotu Matu'a and that needs to be recorded here. I wasn't going to erase 'maori' or the quote, but the meaning of maori needs to be indicated somehow so that the point it makes is clear. Will add 'wise men' and maybe someone will supply a citation for Hotu's remark. Cheers Kahuroa 18:56, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

• I know this is far from the main point here... but if you're curious about the Et tu Brute remark, it's well attested in ancient sources, specifically in De Vita Caesarum (Lives of the Caesars) by Suetonius. See discussion in the Wikipedia article named Lives of the Twelve Caesars. The original Suetonius quotation can be found in the original Latin at http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.02.0061;query=chapter%3D%2382;layout=;loc=jul.%2081.1section  ; click on the link labeled English (ed. Alexander Thomson) for the English version of this passage, and note particularly footnote 3 on that page. Thanks for the article, and regards to you both. (From a bypasser, with as yet no Wikipedia name - 17 June 2006.)

"Quote"

Dear Kahuroa,

Here's the full alleged quote as recorded by Father Sebastian Englert,

Our ko hau rongorongo are lost! Future events will destroy these sacred tablets which we bring with us and those which we will make in our new land. Men of other races will guard a few that remain as priceless objects, and their maori will study them in vain without being able to read them. Our ko hau motu mo rongorongo will be lost forever. Aue! Aue!

Hope you can use this. Cheers!

Sincerely,

Mbrutus 18:43, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

No, that is not right. That quote is from Englert himself. He never claimed to have recorded it from anyone, and makes it clear that he puts it in Hotu Matu'a's mouth for a rhetorical purpose only, as he writes: "These words that I have placed in the mouth of Hotu Matu'a..."

BTW, there is a truly excellent wikipedia article on the rongorongo, better than this one, there: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rongo_rongo

Jacques Guy 2006.11.24

Where to place source

Dear Kahuroa, Where can I place the source now? I know I should know, but could you tell me? Andrew Robinson, Edited by Brian M. Fagan, The Seventy Great Mysteries of the Ancient World: Unlocking the Secrets of Past Civilizations Thames & Hudson, London, 2001 pp. 266-268. Sincerely, Mbrutus 21:11, 23 May 2006 (UTC).

I have done it for you. You could also add this (Robinson 2001:266-268) at the end of the line or paragraph where you added the info from that book into the article. If the references are scattered all over the place tho, that might be a bit messy. If you do decide to add the (Robinson 2001:266-268), you can then take the page numbers out of the citation in the References section, so it just ends with 2001.

Ma'ori

I found a source with a translation of maori in Rapa Nui. It is actually ma'ori and means 'skilled, old'. Kahuroa 00:19, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Wood?

I wonder where the aborigens got the wood for the plates from, since the trees on the island were cut out well before the arrival of Europeans?--Shakura 23:25, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Some are carved oars and other wooden, likely European artifacts. There is some evidence that Rongorongo was developed after the first European contact. Gwen Gale 23:21, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Or rather the other way round: there is no evidence that it would have been developed before the first European contacts. --Drieakko 11:43, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Or "wood" have developed :) Gwen Gale 20:57, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Don't forget driftwood, also even if the last trees were felled in the 17th century, there would be a legacy of wooden artifacts as they can last a long time, some of these tablets may have been reworked from earlier pieces, or perhaps in the case of the Rei Miru inscribed on a much older object. Also between 1770 and 1862 there were a number of European and American ships that visited wanting water, sex and supplies; so we shouldn't be surprised if some wood reached the island in this timeJonathan Cardy 07:34, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Sobre las tablillas rongorongo hay errores en la madera : solo varias analizadas fueron talladas en thespesia popoulnea, y se sabe que una es de fraxinus excelsior. las otras : nunca se sabe. Solo se supone algo pero la informacione es falsa en la pagina entonces en sophora toromiro. Mejor no citar entonces (talk) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.161.46.37 (talk) 02:13, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Solved?

When he successfully deciphered the rongorongo script of Easter Island - the mysterious system of glyphs in which the island's Polynesian inhabitants had recorded their ritual chants and songs - Steven Roger Fischer gained a unique place in the pantheon of glyphbreakers. He is the only person who has ever deciphered not one but two historical scripts. Both of these scripts yield clues of great cultural importance. Fischer's previous decipherment, of a Cretan artifact called the Phaistos Disk, provided the key to the ancient Minoan language and showed it to be closely related to Mycenaean Greek. Contrary to prevailing archaeological opinion, the Minoans were Greeks, and Crete's Phaistos Disk now comprises Europe's oldest documented literature. Fischer's decipherment of rongorongo showed that it was not merely a mnemonic device for recalling memorized texts but was physically read and was the vehicle for creative composition. Rongorongo is thus the only known indigenous script in Oceania before the twentieth century. Filled with accounts of his remarkable journeys and the cultures Fischer encountered, Glyphbreaker is the exciting story of these two decipherments, by the man who must now rank as the greatest glyphbreaker of all time.

A blurb, quoted from here.

Doesn't that mean that this is no longer undecyphered? --203.217.54.49 10:43, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

No, his "decipherements" are largely guesses with no real proof. --Drieakko 11:18, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Such claims are often made in haste and later turn out to be empty. (See, for example, Voynich Manuscript.) I would remain skeptical.

That having been said, [2] appears to elaborate on the decipherment reasonably well, so at the very least, I'd say the book merits a mention. Fischer's work should probably also be summarised -- a procedure that will presumably give us basis to confirm or reject declaring the script solved in the encyclopedic entry. Digwuren 11:29, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

About Fischer's claims to have deciphered the Phaistos Disk, those go unproved as well. --Drieakko 11:53, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Btw, the article about the Phaistos Disk is very well done and works as an example for Rongorongo to be somewhat similarly organized. --Drieakko 14:48, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

RESPONSE ABOUT PHAISTOS DISK : it is not organized as rongorongo tablets about the structure of glyphs. rongorongo is structured in a superior livel in many sections of lines tablets. A rongorongo glyph is composed by several words, names, verbs, numbers and adverbs, and so one... a rongorongo sign may be a full sentence... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.161.46.37 (talk) 01:50, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

A proposito de Steven Fisher : Hay dos incohencias en sus afermaciones : la primera sobre la visita a la isla de Gonzalez de Haedo. Nuestro grupo ha estudiado los manuscritos españoles y estan muy claros. Gonzalez de Haedo pide en una carta a sus oficiales de tomar posesion de la isla de manera protocolar y para comprobar el acta pedir a los caciques de firmar con sus caracteres de nativos. Steven Fisher crea una nueva historia ocultando que hay acontecimientos linguisticos en los pocos dia de la expedicion con los Miru de Anakena. Y sobre el canto Atua Mata riri de Ure Vae Iko Steven Fisher lo ha interpretado a su manera, y muy mal tal como Tati Salmon en 1886, luego por Alfred Metraux. No hay relacion entre el canto Atua Mata riri y el baston de Maori rongorongo de Santiago. Ademas es igual sobre el canto Timo te ako ako. No hay verdadero estudio en el idioma antiguo. Lamentablemente hay persona que llevan conclusiones sin haber estudiado profundamente y no conforme a nuestra banca de datos actual. (talk) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.161.46.37 (talk) 02:31, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

cleaned up

Cleaned up the decypherment bit. Mostly restored it to the last version I'd worked on, which meant losing the Italian stuff, since I mostly couldn't understand it. But Guy (above) is right, the Spanish version looks pretty good, and we might want to consider that as an example to follow for improving this article. kwami 23:53, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Restored the Fischer stuff. As it is now, Fischer proposed that RR is the result of contact diffusion, and also that it's a mnemonic device for genealogies. I doubt he would think it's both, but I don't know his work. Can s.o. check? kwami 05:26, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

RESPONSE : Steven Fisher tesis is unfortunatly sponsorized by Georgia Lee, Chris Stevenson and alls of Easter Island foundation... They edited themselves : so they attempt to closed all the semantics rongorongo research censured all others tesis in international conferences. But Polinesian linguists, arqueologists and antropologists (such as Academie Marquisienne et Tahitienne) or Sergio Rapu Rapanui arqueologist are helping researchers who remains in the truth and in the respect of their ancestors. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.161.46.37 (talk) 01:45, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

manuscripts

What's with these "manuscripts"? Do they even belong in the article? or are they just someone copying rongorongo onto paper in modern times without understanding what they were writing? kwami (talk) 02:16, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Hubo una description de los manuscritos en el volumen II, el autor fue Thomas Barthel - referencia Heyerdahl, Thor y Edwin N. Ferdon (Eds.) 1961. Reports of the Norwegian Archaeological Expedition to Easter Island and the East Pacific, Vol. 1: Archaeology of Easter Island. Vol. II: Miscelanea. Monograph of the School of American Research and the Museum of New Mexico. y en BARTHEL, THOMAS, The Eigth Land, University Press of Hawaii. Honolulu 1978

Se podia suponer que los manuscritos fueron signos recopiados o creados, pero ya Thomas Barthel habia descubierto algo del metodo de los leprosos - no hubo tiempo de estudiar más. Buscaba lectura sobre el rongorongo como todos, un silabario... Lorena Bettocchi ha descubierto algo : por primero ha desvelado todos los errores del repertorio Jaussen - y hay muchos en cada pagina, y en segundo un taller con ritual comportando las correcciones del repertorio del Obispo (el taller tiene fecha>1936)o sea en semantica y estructura morfologica. su descubrimiento cambio algo de nuestra historia [[3]].Vuestro intento es el siguiente : negacion total del descubrimiento de la investigadora francesa. Pero Kwami la escritura de la Isla de Pascua no es solo nuestra, es patrimonio de la Humanidad, compreso los talleres de los leprosos y los manuscritos. (talk) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.161.46.37 (talk) 02:08, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Jacques Guy

User:JacquesGuy added these comments to his main user space at 21:10, 2007 August 23. I just found them and thought the belonged here. kwami (talk) 21:49, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

I have deleted all references to my publications on the subject.

Why?

Because I do no appreciate being associated with prime nut cases such as Sergei Rjabchikov and Lorena Bettocchi, who, further, have been swamping this article with their self-sung paeans. "Professor" Bettocchi indeed! A one-time school teacher calling herself "Professor"! And Rjabchikov, the kook who deciphered the Phaistos Disk (it's written in Old Slavonic, did you know?). What next? Why not replace it all by Kookus Maximus Barry Fell's decipherment of the rongorongo, uh? Yes, he has deciphered them. Of course: he's deciphered everything. Hey, why not? Come on, all kooks out there, at it!

Editors, you have a choice: either you clean up your act or you leave me and rongorongo.org (I am "Anonymous") out this sorry farce.

Should I see my name put back again in the midst of those clowns, I will insert a warning in rongorongo.org

Style

I've rewritten most of the article, but occasionally got signed out before saving my changes, and only my IP address was recorded in the page history, so here's my user name in case anyone has issues with what I've done: kwami 20:52, 2005 July 23 (UTC)

Several spelling mistakes and stylistically doubtful sentences. It's 4 a.m. and I'm dead tired but will be back here again soon.--Targeman 01:54, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

The article seems to have become quite a mess after loads of recent edits. --Drieakko 06:43, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Dear Kwamikagami Informations about rongorongo are running very kickly with internet. We are the new generation on invetigators (from 1992 for me : 14 years hard studies on all the data base, and from 2004 conclusions bored by the anglo saxon system... Before a north american group blocked informations so only Steven Fisher tesis was "kind of law". At the contrary we are given withness documents, historics documents, linguistics informations. Now with internet we can go ahead. Wikipedia in french is going to a correct information for websurfers, but in english and spanish, what a lot of mistakes, blabla... Its hurting the human rights of polynesian people and particulary rapanui people. So a good cleaning of the pages is necessary. Polynesian group linguists and Lorena Bettocchi writing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.161.46.37 (talk) 12:15, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Todo el texto de la pagina deberia ser revisado, hay algunas faltas inaceptables - y ademas la bibliografia es muy incompleta. Hay muchas publicaciones importantes sobre la escritura rongorongo (talk) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.161.46.37 (talk) 02:36, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Kwami, mes amis du groupe Timoteakoako m'ont informes des deviances sur la page Wikipedia rongorongo. Je tenterai d'inserer dans cette page de discussion des informations plus justes. Ceci pour maintenir Wikipedia a flot car cette encyclopedie n'est plus pedagogique mais une sorte de blog ou de forum. Nous informons nos etudiants des lycees colleges et université de la chute de l'information sur Wikipedia. Des articles dans les revues scientifiques ont paru a ce sujet. Lorena Bettocchi. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.161.46.37 (talk) 13:02, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Mes publications en histoire et sur les origines sont sur le web [[4]]. Je sais qu'elles derangent mais de grands scientifiques collaborent avec moi à present. Je dois dire que le travail de mes predecesseurs fut enorme. Je leur dois une reverence, sachant au bout de 15 ans, comme il est difficile de constituer la plus importante banque de données sur ce qui fut ecrit, publié sur le rongorongo, sur toutes les erreurs commises à partir de 1893... Le groupe "Timo te akoako" ce qui veut dire "La grande recitation des signes" revoit tout point par point. Cela commence à porter ses fruits. Une difference notable entre mes recherches et celles de mes predecesseurs : je n'essaie pas de dechiffer. Je travaille uniquement sur la structure morphologique du rongorongo dans toutes ses phases, de la plus classique à l'écriture de la periode où les signes avaient disparus, jusqu'aux creations et aux falsifications. C'est-a-dire que je ne brûle pas les étapes. Tout n'est pas sur mes sites internet mais le sera dans 2 ans maximum. La methode de recherche est : I)structure 2) connnaissance globale de tous les signes 3) semantique. L'etape 2 ne sera jamais realisée en raison de l'absence des familles de signes qui se trouvaient sur les tablettes historiquement brûlées. Par contre la structure et la semantique sont possibles dans de nombreuses sections des tablettes et du bâton. L'ecriture rongorongo n'est pas syllabaire, mais comme toutes les proto écritures, memoire de l'humanité elle commence par le symbole et la semantique qui s'y attache, pour se structurer ensuite en ideogramme et ensuite en pictogramme aux signifiacations multiples. Le rongorongo "oiseau avec une main" a plusieurs noms, et une vingtaine de significations. L'ecriture de l'Ile de Paques sous forme de banque de données est dans mes mains et sauvegardee dans differents registres de propriete intellectuelle de differents pays. Mais les meilleurs gardiens de mon travail sont les Rapanui qui à present, diplomés des Universites ont doit à la parole. A bientot. Lorena Bettocchi du groupe CEIPP -dont Jacques Guy, Irina Fedorova et une commission qui travaille depuis 8 ans sur les familles de signes, ou du moins ceux qu'il reste sur les 25 ITEMS - et non 26, la tablette du Poike est moderne, non reconnue dans les items par moi et Irina Fedorova- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.161.46.37 (talk) 13:54, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, Lorena. I'll try taking a look at your site again, though right now isn't the best time. I wonder, however, how you can say that the script is proto-writing or that the "oiseau avec une main" has a score of meanings when you haven't been able to decipher it. (Not that anyone has deciphered it, or demonstrated that it's syllabic!) Are you saying that you understand the script but it cannot be deciphered because it isn't full writing and therefore does not represent language, or that it can't be deciphered because too much has been lost? kwami (talk) 08:34, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Rongorongo, New Zealand

I have placed a link at the top of the article as a link to Rongorongo (wife of Turi), an ancestress of the Māori of New Zealand. This is to save having a disambiguation page. If there is a better solution just let me know. Kahuroa 10:58, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

No, that's good. kwami 11:14, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

our greatest maori

1. Just wondering if we could have a clarification of what 'maori' means in Rapa Nui?
2. Is there a source that this statement attributed to Hotu Matu'a comes from? Kahuroa 00:21, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

RESPONSE : MAORI in ARERO RAPA NUI IS PEOPLE MAORI AND ALSO MASTER —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.161.46.37 (talk) 01:53, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Maori and Hotu

Dear Kahuroa,

In the first place, maori, in that context, was probably used to designate a very wise man. In the second, these are not attestable by any account. They come from scholarly forms of folklore and it is a quotation of Hotu Matu'a much in the same way Et tu, Brute? is a quotation of Julius Caesar. I'd appreciate if you didn't erase it, though. It's making a point. Hope you can get to Italy.

Sincerely,

Mbrutus 03:50, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

• Actually Et tu Brute is a quote from William Shakespeare, from his play Julius Caesar, Act III, scene 1 - not sure if JC actually said it at all. In the same way there must be a written source (or how else do we know about it?) for this 'quote' from Hotu Matu'a and that needs to be recorded here. I wasn't going to erase 'maori' or the quote, but the meaning of maori needs to be indicated somehow so that the point it makes is clear. Will add 'wise men' and maybe someone will supply a citation for Hotu's remark. Cheers Kahuroa 18:56, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

• I know this is far from the main point here... but if you're curious about the Et tu Brute remark, it's well attested in ancient sources, specifically in De Vita Caesarum (Lives of the Caesars) by Suetonius. See discussion in the Wikipedia article named Lives of the Twelve Caesars. The original Suetonius quotation can be found in the original Latin at http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.02.0061;query=chapter%3D%2382;layout=;loc=jul.%2081.1section  ; click on the link labeled English (ed. Alexander Thomson) for the English version of this passage, and note particularly footnote 3 on that page. Thanks for the article, and regards to you both. (From a bypasser, with as yet no Wikipedia name - 17 June 2006.)

"Quote"

Dear Kahuroa,

Here's the full alleged quote as recorded by Father Sebastian Englert,

Our ko hau rongorongo are lost! Future events will destroy these sacred tablets which we bring with us and those which we will make in our new land. Men of other races will guard a few that remain as priceless objects, and their maori will study them in vain without being able to read them. Our ko hau motu mo rongorongo will be lost forever. Aue! Aue!

Hope you can use this. Cheers!

Sincerely,

Mbrutus 18:43, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

No, that is not right. That quote is from Englert himself. He never claimed to have recorded it from anyone, and makes it clear that he puts it in Hotu Matu'a's mouth for a rhetorical purpose only, as he writes: "These words that I have placed in the mouth of Hotu Matu'a..."

BTW, there is a truly excellent wikipedia article on the rongorongo, better than this one, there: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rongo_rongo

Jacques Guy 2006.11.24

Where to place source

Dear Kahuroa, Where can I place the source now? I know I should know, but could you tell me? Andrew Robinson, Edited by Brian M. Fagan, The Seventy Great Mysteries of the Ancient World: Unlocking the Secrets of Past Civilizations Thames & Hudson, London, 2001 pp. 266-268. Sincerely, Mbrutus 21:11, 23 May 2006 (UTC).

I have done it for you. You could also add this (Robinson 2001:266-268) at the end of the line or paragraph where you added the info from that book into the article. If the references are scattered all over the place tho, that might be a bit messy. If you do decide to add the (Robinson 2001:266-268), you can then take the page numbers out of the citation in the References section, so it just ends with 2001.

Ma'ori

I found a source with a translation of maori in Rapa Nui. It is actually ma'ori and means 'skilled, old'. Kahuroa 00:19, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Wood?

I wonder where the aborigens got the wood for the plates from, since the trees on the island were cut out well before the arrival of Europeans?--Shakura 23:25, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Some are carved oars and other wooden, likely European artifacts. There is some evidence that Rongorongo was developed after the first European contact. Gwen Gale 23:21, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Or rather the other way round: there is no evidence that it would have been developed before the first European contacts. --Drieakko 11:43, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Or "wood" have developed :) Gwen Gale 20:57, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Don't forget driftwood, also even if the last trees were felled in the 17th century, there would be a legacy of wooden artifacts as they can last a long time, some of these tablets may have been reworked from earlier pieces, or perhaps in the case of the Rei Miru inscribed on a much older object. Also between 1770 and 1862 there were a number of European and American ships that visited wanting water, sex and supplies; so we shouldn't be surprised if some wood reached the island in this timeJonathan Cardy 07:34, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Sobre las tablillas rongorongo hay errores en la madera : solo varias analizadas fueron talladas en thespesia popoulnea, y se sabe que una es de fraxinus excelsior. las otras : nunca se sabe. Solo se supone algo pero la informacione es falsa en la pagina entonces en sophora toromiro. Mejor no citar entonces (talk) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.161.46.37 (talk) 02:13, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Solved?

When he successfully deciphered the rongorongo script of Easter Island - the mysterious system of glyphs in which the island's Polynesian inhabitants had recorded their ritual chants and songs - Steven Roger Fischer gained a unique place in the pantheon of glyphbreakers. He is the only person who has ever deciphered not one but two historical scripts. Both of these scripts yield clues of great cultural importance. Fischer's previous decipherment, of a Cretan artifact called the Phaistos Disk, provided the key to the ancient Minoan language and showed it to be closely related to Mycenaean Greek. Contrary to prevailing archaeological opinion, the Minoans were Greeks, and Crete's Phaistos Disk now comprises Europe's oldest documented literature. Fischer's decipherment of rongorongo showed that it was not merely a mnemonic device for recalling memorized texts but was physically read and was the vehicle for creative composition. Rongorongo is thus the only known indigenous script in Oceania before the twentieth century. Filled with accounts of his remarkable journeys and the cultures Fischer encountered, Glyphbreaker is the exciting story of these two decipherments, by the man who must now rank as the greatest glyphbreaker of all time.

A blurb, quoted from here.

Doesn't that mean that this is no longer undecyphered? --203.217.54.49 10:43, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

No, his "decipherements" are largely guesses with no real proof. --Drieakko 11:18, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Such claims are often made in haste and later turn out to be empty. (See, for example, Voynich Manuscript.) I would remain skeptical.

That having been said, [5] appears to elaborate on the decipherment reasonably well, so at the very least, I'd say the book merits a mention. Fischer's work should probably also be summarised -- a procedure that will presumably give us basis to confirm or reject declaring the script solved in the encyclopedic entry. Digwuren 11:29, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

About Fischer's claims to have deciphered the Phaistos Disk, those go unproved as well. --Drieakko 11:53, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Btw, the article about the Phaistos Disk is very well done and works as an example for Rongorongo to be somewhat similarly organized. --Drieakko 14:48, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

RESPONSE ABOUT PHAISTOS DISK : it is not organized as rongorongo tablets about the structure of glyphs. rongorongo is structured in a superior livel in many sections of lines tablets. A rongorongo glyph is composed by several words, names, verbs, numbers and adverbs, and so one... a rongorongo sign may be a full sentence... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.161.46.37 (talk) 01:50, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

A proposito de Steven Fisher : Hay dos incohencias en sus afermaciones : la primera sobre la visita a la isla de Gonzalez de Haedo. Nuestro grupo ha estudiado los manuscritos españoles y estan muy claros. Gonzalez de Haedo pide en una carta a sus oficiales de tomar posesion de la isla de manera protocolar y para comprobar el acta pedir a los caciques de firmar con sus caracteres de nativos. Steven Fisher crea una nueva historia ocultando que hay acontecimientos linguisticos en los pocos dia de la expedicion con los Miru de Anakena. Y sobre el canto Atua Mata riri de Ure Vae Iko Steven Fisher lo ha interpretado a su manera, y muy mal tal como Tati Salmon en 1886, luego por Alfred Metraux. No hay relacion entre el canto Atua Mata riri y el baston de Maori rongorongo de Santiago. Ademas es igual sobre el canto Timo te ako ako. No hay verdadero estudio en el idioma antiguo. Lamentablemente hay persona que llevan conclusiones sin haber estudiado profundamente y no conforme a nuestra banca de datos actual. (talk) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.161.46.37 (talk) 02:31, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

cleaned up

Cleaned up the decypherment bit. Mostly restored it to the last version I'd worked on, which meant losing the Italian stuff, since I mostly couldn't understand it. But Guy (above) is right, the Spanish version looks pretty good, and we might want to consider that as an example to follow for improving this article. kwami 23:53, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Restored the Fischer stuff. As it is now, Fischer proposed that RR is the result of contact diffusion, and also that it's a mnemonic device for genealogies. I doubt he would think it's both, but I don't know his work. Can s.o. check? kwami 05:26, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

RESPONSE : Steven Fisher tesis is unfortunatly sponsorized by Georgia Lee, Chris Stevenson and alls of Easter Island foundation... They edited themselves : so they attempt to closed all the semantics rongorongo research censured all others tesis in international conferences. But Polinesian linguists, arqueologists and antropologists (such as Academie Marquisienne et Tahitienne) or Sergio Rapu Rapanui arqueologist are helping researchers who remains in the truth and in the respect of their ancestors. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.161.46.37 (talk) 01:45, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

manuscripts

What's with these "manuscripts"? Do they even belong in the article? or are they just someone copying rongorongo onto paper in modern times without understanding what they were writing? kwami (talk) 02:16, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Hubo una description de los manuscritos en el volumen II, el autor fue Thomas Barthel - referencia Heyerdahl, Thor y Edwin N. Ferdon (Eds.) 1961. Reports of the Norwegian Archaeological Expedition to Easter Island and the East Pacific, Vol. 1: Archaeology of Easter Island. Vol. II: Miscelanea. Monograph of the School of American Research and the Museum of New Mexico. y en BARTHEL, THOMAS, The Eigth Land, University Press of Hawaii. Honolulu 1978

Se podia suponer que los manuscritos fueron signos recopiados o creados, pero ya Thomas Barthel habia descubierto algo del metodo de los leprosos - no hubo tiempo de estudiar más. Buscaba lectura sobre el rongorongo como todos, un silabario... Lorena Bettocchi ha descubierto algo : por primero ha desvelado todos los errores del repertorio Jaussen - y hay muchos en cada pagina, y en segundo un taller con ritual comportando las correcciones del repertorio del Obispo (el taller tiene fecha>1936)o sea en semantica y estructura morfologica. su descubrimiento cambio algo de nuestra historia. Vuestro intento es el siguiente : negacion total del descubrimiento de la investigadora francesa. Pero Kwami la escritura de la Isla de Pascua no es solo nuestra, es patrimonio de la Humanidad, compreso los talleres de los leprosos y los manuscritos. (talk) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.161.46.37 (talk) 02:08, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

rongorongo.org

I see that the link to rongorongo.org has been restored despite my warning.

I have consequently deleted all the self-serving advertisements from the two charlatans, Lorena Bettocchi and Sergei Rjabchikov. Put them back and I WILL TAKE RONGORONGO.ORG OFF LINE. Have I made myself clear enough this time?

... and later:

RESPONSE ABOUT PHAISTOS DISK : it is not organized as rongorongo tablets about the structure of glyphs. rongorongo is structured in a superior livel in many sections of lines tablets. A rongorongo glyph is composed by several words, names, verbs, numbers and adverbs, and so one... a rongorongo sign may be a full sentence...

"A rongorongo glyph is composed by several words, names, verbs, numbers and adverbs" eh?

Typical of the arrant bullshit that will worm its way into the wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JacquesGuy (talk • contribs) 00:39, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Jacques, making threats does nothing to improve the article, and pouting only undermines your own credibility. If you want to take your material offline, be my guest. But do you seriously think any threats you make will change the mind of someone who thinks you're wrong, and insists on adding their POV to the article? Have you looked at the page histories of Palestine or George W. Bush? If this is truly something you care about, then you'll help us improve it. If you feel these people are cranks, it would also help if you provided some reference to demonstrate that to the rest of us. We have no trouble saying that claimants to having deciphered the Phaistos disc are cranks; the problem with Bettocchi is I can't figure out what she's saying. kwami (talk) 00:08, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

(comments which replaced earlier material)

Que es un rongorongo mama ? Una invencion ? Notas de Katherine Routledge ? Recopiadas por Fisher en su lista de Rapanui Journal ? No existe el rongorongo mama.

Observamos que los links con los sitios internet de los investigadores fueron borrados. Habia un sitio sobre nuestra historia en el diaporama provisorio de Lorena Bettocchi [[6]] fue borrado. Es una nueva manera de borrar lo que queda al pueblo rapanui. (timoteakoako)