Talk:Telegraphy

Need photos

Anyone have, or can get, usable photos or diagrams of the early telegraph units (especially the five-needle and four-needle ones). This one is CC but noncommercial, so it's excluded :-( http://flickr.com/photos/tharpo/370614554/ --206.79.158.100 (talk) 22:12, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Telegraphy as a legacy system

can anyone perform a spell check for me on the last sentences? I'm Dutch speaking. For those who understand Dutch, please read following article out of De Standaard newspaper:

We versturen jaarlijks nog 120.000 telegrammen

BRUSSEL - Elk jaar worden er in ons land nog 120.000 telegrammen verstuurd. België is daarmee een uitzondering. In ons land is het bijvoorbeeld nog wettelijk verplicht om telegrammen te sturen naar mensen die dijken bewaken als er storm dreigt. In Groot-Brittannië, Duitsland, Frankrijk en Nederland is het telegram al afgevoerd, omdat het helemaal verdrongen werd door telefoon, e-mail en sms.

In de jaren '60 werden jaarlijks enkele miljoenen telegrammen verstuurd in ons land. Die gouden periode is voorbij, maar toch houdt het telegram opmerkelijk goed stand. Er worden nog 120.000 stuks per jaar verstuurd, of zo'n 300 per dag.

Er worden ook nog veel telegrammen naar en uit het buitenland verwerkt. En rond 15 augustus arriveren er duizenden telegrammen uit Italië, waar moederdag uitvoerig gevierd wordt.

In de meeste buurlanden is het telegram al afgeschaft. Omdat het bij ons nog succes heeft, denkt Belgacom daar niet aan. -- fredo1983

Ampere

Ampere, in a a presentation to the Academy of Sciences on October 2, 1820 which can be found in the Annales de Chimie et de Physique Series II Vol. 15, p.59, 1820, Ampere says that he is following up on an experiment suggested by Marquis de Laplace which is forming the first electromagnetic telegraph. It appears he does not actually make it but it is conceived there. Emstone 15:30 825 January 2006 (UTC)

Fax machine photo options

In the article, it says: "Before fax machines came into general use, wire picture or wire photo was a newspaper picture that was sent from a remote location by a facsimile telegraph. This is why many fax machines have a photo option even today.". I don't get this justification. Why is fax machines having a photo option relevant to telegraphs? -- Stain 14:49 22 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Point-and-click and email

The article says modems and point-and-click interfaces led to personal email in 1992. I'm pretty sure the first email (even personal) systems existed long before point-and-click interfaces, and probably also before 1992. But I'm no computer science historian, so could someone knowledgeable correct that statement? -- Kimiko 21:02 21 May 2003 (UTC)

E-mail was first invented for Multics in the late 1960s. However it was limited to a single computer until the internet connected them around 1968. Various private networks (UUNET, the Well, GENIE, DECNET) had e-mail from the 1970s, but subscriptions were quite expensive for an individual- $25 to $50 a month, just for e-mail. Internet use was then pretty much limited to government, academia and other government contractors until the net was opened to commercial use around 1989[?]. Individual e-mail accounts were not widely available until local ISPs were in place, funded by people's desire for web access. This was about 1992. User:Ray Van De Walker

Before the internet came in, computer bulletin boards were popular. This was in the late 1980s. These would have a bank of modems that people could dial into from their home computers. You could send messages using a network called Fidonet, where the bulletin boards could call each other overnight and forward on messages. GB 00:50, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

IPARS error

I removed the following statement, because it is factually incorrect: "PARS and IPARS (the airline reservation systems) still (2002) use Baudot code, because it requires only 7.5 bits per character. A bit saved is a penny earned." In fact, IPARS uses a 6-bit shifted code, not 5-bit Baudot. -- Ortonmc 03:58, 11 Nov 2003 (UTC)

GFDL for image

Can someone please find a (GNU FDL'd) image for this article. Noldoaran 17:56, Dec 5, 2003 (UTC)

First fax machine

The following was removed from the article as "inaccurate" by an anon user, so I'm leaving it here for those who know more than me:

• The first fax machine was introduced in 1912, known as the Telex-Faxomatic, and primarily used for the transmission of lunch orders from busy factory floors to any number of delies and cafeterias.

BCorr ¤ Брайен 00:12, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Removed irrelevant Internet info

Removed from the article, as this does not seem immediately relevant to telegraphy, and I'm not sure that the data-efficiency arguments given are relevant in the current WDM bandwidth glut world:

The Internet was designed with nearly grotesque economies. It is commonplace for internet packets to use less than 1% of their bits for overhead. This cheapness combines synergistically with the Internet's ability to live on other media. A typical cycle occurs when the internet encounters another network, like telex, fidonet, ATM, or (as we are seeing with cable-modem based internet phones) the public switched telephone network:

• First, Internet protocols are tunneled through the other network, as a convenience, usually for some specialized or office application.
• Second, users come to expect the reliable global interconnectivity of the Internet, often for e-mail, or nowadays, for web access. Just because it's old and well debugged, the Internet can seduce a user with a young, poorly behaved proprietary network.
• Third, native applications of the competing network are deprecated, often because "nonproprietary" Internet versions of similar services become available.
• Fourth, an alternative cheaper or higher-speed Internet-compatible medium becomes available, and the organization begins to install it.
• Fifth, the proprietary network is rationalized out of existence as a cost-cutting maneuver, often because the Internet protocols have such low percentages of overhead (i.e. wasted) data.

Third Reich invention

"The Third Reich invented the first wide-coverage telex system, and used it to coordinate their bureaucracy. It was a true triumph of German efficiency."

Isn't putting true triumph of efficiency and IIIrd Reich in the same sentence borderline apologetic of the IIIrd Reich ? Isn't "German efficiency" itself borderline racist, as racist as "French anarchy" ?

No, the 'third reich' really was an efficient governing organisation. And of course, it isn't apologetic. How could that sentence possibly be construed as such. As for the racism - maybe. It is probably worth removing it to avoid offending anyones sensibilities.Rob cowie 12:12, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Even though this seems to have been removed, I would like to say that the line "It was a true triumph of German efficiency." reads more POV than anything else. Since it has long since been removed it is a moot point. 15 February 2007 (anon) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 204.96.18.5 (talk) 15:20, 15 February 2007 (UTC).

Telgraph

why does telex link point to teleprinter if they talk more about it in telegraphy?

The two articles need better coordination. Also I removed the following from the TWX section:

"The "four row" TWX service had "control characters" that let the machine behave like office typewriters. These provided paragraph indentation, form feeds, and other services that were never available with Baudot codes. However, the TWX code only used 93 of 128 characters.

The Teletype Corporation was founded by Edward E. Kleinschmidt. It had the cheapest teletypewriters that could be adapted to the TWX code. Bell purchased the corporation to assure its supply of "model 33" TWX teletypewriters.

model 33 was the cheapest teletypewriter available for use with computers. Computer people, of course, wanted a full set of characters. Teletype provided them.

ASCII was born from TWX code. It was formalized as CCITT international alphabet 5. Careful study will show that ASCII traces many character codes back to Baudot, which in turn traces some characters back to manual telegraphy."

This is very questionable stuff. Bell bought Teletype Corp in 1930, long before the model 33. Frank Pearne founded Teletype [1]. I believe four row TWX used ASCII 128, which was developed by a committee with ATT as a major participant. The model 33 did not have lower case characters, if I recall correctly. --agr 15:11, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

A mention of [Cybersyn] , a system of Telex co-ordinated economic planning, might not be remiss in the Telex section of this entry.

I am more than happy to edit and rewrite the whole telegraphy entry but this will have to wait until the end of the year after my dissertation on the telegraph has been submitted. (Neil Barton)

this article needs to tell more history of the telegraph (just ot let you know)- im not the one to od it either 68.18.162.3 02:54, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

dablink malfunction

{{dablink|''Telegraph'' and ''telegram'' redirect here. For other senses of those words, please see [[telegraph (disambiguation)]] and [[telegram (disambiguation)]].}}

Telegraph and telegram redirect here. For other senses of those words, please see telegraph (disambiguation) and telegram (disambiguation).

I have no idea why the above appears in bold. Can anyone (1) tell me, and (2) fix this? Michael Hardy 00:41, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Silent Railway telegraph?

The article currently says that the Great Western Railway telegraph "came into operation on 9 April 1839", and that Samuel Morse sent the "world's first telegram" on 24 May 1844. Surely the Railway telegraph wasn't silent for the 5-year interim. I'm guessing that the Railway communication was not considered "telegrams" per se. Could someone acquainted with this history clarify the text for those of us who aren't? Thanks. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 00:03, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Of course Morse and the Washington-Baltimore telegraph did not send the "world's first telegram", a word not invented until over 10 years later, but Morse was quite possibly the world's greatest publicist. (Neil Barton)

I agree. It seems to be a part of a national propaganda without any technical background inside. For instance, some american history books tell nothing about Sputnik but very well depict US Moon programme. (Thomas Reinshaw)

Merge

I agree that [Electrical telegraph]] could easily be moved here - I've already removed the expand tag from that article. Any objection to merging it? --Wtshymanski 15:06, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

automatic telegraph?

Could some one put in info on Alexander Bain's automatic telegraph. 204.56.7.1

Done. -Sea diver 10:30, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Comparison

In Radiotelegraphy section the article currently says : Alexander Stepanovich Popov demonstrated to the public his receiver of wireless signals, also used as a lightning detector, on the 7 of May, 1895. This is in comparison to Tesla, who was able to detect signals from the transmissions of his New York lab at West Point (a distance of 50 miles) in the beginning of 1895. [1]

AFAIK, Popov demostrated his receiver to community of scientists on May, 7th of 1895.The same year the fact of demonstration of this lightning detector was described in scientific newspapers - Kronshtadtsky Vestnik printed May,12ve of 1895 and in Journal of Russian Physics-Chemistry Society. Therefore, there are written evidences of A.S. Popov's work. What about Tesla *in comparison*? Are there similar articles about "his ability to detect signals from the transmission etc" in any newspapers or scientific journals printed in 1895? What about technical details of Tesla's apparatus? Sea diver 02:01, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

opening paragraph wording

the opening paragraph states that the original media of transmission was by wire ... later in the article it talks of optical telegraphs and indeed there is an image of an optical telegraph tower. In my view there are several types of telegraph distinguished by their transmission media .... 1] acoustic (discussed in Victorian Internet) 2] optical 3] pnematic (once agn in Victorian Internet) 4] ship's telegraph - media is chain or cable WIRE

    maybe this is what was meant by originally by wire :-) :--)
    might also be debated on one's view of distance

5] wire as in Morse/Wheatstone telegraphs 6] wireless (aka radio) as a newbie to wiki (in fact this is first edit) i do not feel i have experience or credentials to touch main article but hope someone else sees my point and touches it up. Also would like feedback on my viewpoint. tnx! JOHN RUSSELL VE3LL@RAC.CA

Redirect

If, as stated in the article, "The word telegraph alone generally refers to an electrical telegraph" then shouldn't "telegraph" redirect to electrical telegraph and not telegraphy? pACMANx 23:30, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I was just thinking the same thing. -- Blarrrg 13:05, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Earth Batteries - first use.

Would a telegraphy historian please check the Telluric current article and correct as needed the statement on first use of an earth battery for telegraphy.

You might also add some additional information on this subject to the Earth battery article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.6.226.118 (talk) 10:54, 23 December 2006 (UTC).

Napoleon Dynamite?

If I'm mistaken feel free to undo my change, but I don't think telegraphs helped napoleon dynamite much. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.170.25.77 (talk) 02:52, 22 January 2007 (UTC).

Photos

The opening pic of "Optical Telegraf of Claude Chappe" is quite confusing, due to the modern atenna on the top. If this photo is going to be used, it should be cropped to the roof line. *** The article is missing all of the basic images one would expect: a morse code keyer, a typical printed telegram from the early 1900s, telegraph wires strung from pole to pole in the countryside. They should be added, and would be more appropriate images to start the article with.-69.87.200.22 12:31, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

punctuation in telegrams -- why "stop"?

Somebody asked a good question on the RefDesk: why was the word "stop" used in telegrams rather than a period? (Or at least that's how it's depicted in movies.) The answer, sourced to an AP article [2] was that punctuation cost extra while the four-letter word was free. If that is true then it should go in the Wikipedia article telegraphy but I am skeptical. Was there not a charge for every word? Why should the word "stop" have been gratis? --Mathew5000 14:44, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

No references, but I believe the codes used only contained alphabetic and numeric symbols. There was no way to send punctuation. Rojomoke 23:22, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Here is a reference suggesting that punctuation marks could be transmitted but it was somewhat unreliable. --Mathew5000 06:21, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Ship's telegraph

I think there should be a section discussing the sort of telegraphs used on Victorian/Edwardian era ships to signal the engine room from the bridge. The sort that consisted of a dial and a handle for ordering the speed the engines should be run at.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.1.57.92 (talk) 22:07, 28 June 2007

I just did several searches on this and could only find people selling antiques, nothing about their operation. If anyone knows about these items, it might make a good addition to this or one of the associated articles. —Elipongo (Talk contribs) 22:18, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

TELEX by EMail

A quick search of the web shows that there still seem to be several companies offering an interface between TELEX and EMail. --jmb 13:43, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

can someone help me about telegraph transmission system.. how it works and what are the peripherals used for example the printers transmitter and receivers.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.84.191.215 (talk) 02:15, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, there's lots of good background on telexes, including the current implementation using email, at this Economist article. I hope someone can incorporate some of this material. Earthlyreason (talk) 11:20, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Wireless Morse Code and Landline Morse Code

This article focuses on Wireless Morse Code which is fine when referring to a Wireless service, but the code used on Wired telegraph (a.k.a. Landline Telegraph) which was different not only did many of the characters differ but also the character spacing. The code that should be used in this example is American Morse code. The article should also be edited to express the differences between the two. As of now it compares the two as nearly identical which is not the case. The 'Morse Code" as we know it today would have simply been too hard to communicate accurately using the older telegraph systems. With the advent of radio and the use of a BFO to make the .(dits) and -(dahs) audible it made copying easier so the characters could become more complex. --Dp67 | QSO | Sandbox | UBX's 05:21, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

TWX transitional era, Baudot to ASCII

I recall at my father's office in the late 50s they had a "3-row" TWX machine, and it had a normal phone number (216-486-something). During the transitional period when the 4-row ASCII machines, model 33ASR, came into use, they had the special "area codes" 510, 610, 710, 810, 910 and if you called from one type to another the system did the code conversion for you. Eventually they dropped the special area codes and the conversion service and went to normal phone numbers, but you couldn't call a TWX machine from a computer with a modem because they had reversed the modem tones in some fashion. ;Bear 04:01, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

You are correct in the fact that the Bell System offered both "3-row" Baudot and "4-row" ASCII TWX service up to the late 1970s. The "3-row" Baudot, the special area codes (510, 610, 710 and 810) and the Baudot to ASCII code/speed conversion continued right up to 1979-1980 when Western Union moved away from the Telephone Company switching hardware to the Western Union Telex II system. Any remaining "3-row" Baudot cusotmers were converted to Western Union Telex service by 1979-1980.

The code/speed conversion was accomplished using a "10A/B board" via a live operator. A TWX customer would place a call to the 10A/B board operator for Baudot - ASCII calls, ASCII - Baudot calls and also TWX Conference calls. The code /speed conversion was done by a Western Electric unit that provided this capability. There were multiple code /speed conversion units at each operator position.

A reason why TWX machines and POTS lines (and computers on a POTS line) could not connect was Class of Service (COS). In addition to having separate Area Codes for the TWX service, the TWX lines were also supposed to be set up with a special COS to prevent connections to and from POTS to TWX and vice versa. Wa3frp 13:51, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

The TWX section heading is missing

The TWX section heading and the first paragraph of the TWX section are missing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.229.221.43 (talk) 06:55, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Outdated statistics

Some of the statistics in this article seem quite out of date. To wit: Germany was listed as having 400,000 telex lines in daily operation. According to the German Wikipedia article and my own recollection, there were only a few dozen lines left in by early 2007. The service was discontinued entirely on 31 December 2007. – I am deleting that reference but suggest more research and editing; I don't have the data. Polartysken (talk) 02:32, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Wheatstone + display problems in Firefox

This article seems to shortchange Wheatstone and, in its section on the Wheatstone telegraph contradicts Wikipedia's Wheatstone article on early British railway telegraphy.

Also, the graphic of Morse's message 'What hath God wrought?' overlaps the text. I don't know how to fix such things. --APW (talk) 07:53, 23 February 2008 (UTC)