Talk:Kauhajoki school shooting

Naming the article

There's already Jokela school shooting so should the name of this article, accordingly, be Kauhajoki school shooting? Or Kauhajoki vocational school shooting? (I admit, the latter is quite long) -- Jepa (talk) 10:00, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

The former is good. Kittybrewster ☎ 10:14, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

(I mean, the incidents are similar in the way that this occurred also in a school, therefore "school shooting") -- Jepa (talk) 12:06, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Its not a school though. Its a vocational college. I think the name is fine as it is. brob (talk) 18:11, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

In the news?

 Done

Nine feared to have been killed, so this should also be "In the news" on the main page,..shouldn't it? -- Jepa (talk) 12:10, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

In the future, see WP:ITN/C to suggest ideas. Spencer^T♦C 19:31, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Quote

Could someone edit that whole quote is from lyrics song named "War", band Wumpscut(also his YouTube account-nick, Wumpscut86)? Yakuzakyuu (talk) 12:39, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

still alive after suicide attempt

More news will probably trickle in, but for now I read that he tried to kill himself and didn't succeed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.102.208.34 (talk) 13:29, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

I just heard that he died too. I'm trying to find a source... --86.60.200.155 (talk) 14:40, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

It's on YLE page too, ref [2] --86.60.200.155 (talk) 14:43, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

The video

The video is available at BBC. Quite shocking... ☺ Spiby ☻ 13:42, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

So can people outside the UK view that (BBC videos used to be UK exclusive)? If so, I think it would make a credible external link...and yes, quite shocking -- my initial reaction to seeing it was not "opportunity". Yohan euan o4 (talk) 14:58, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

I had no technical problems, and I live in Finland. (not bbc exclusive, they copied it from youtube.) ☺ Spiby ☻ 15:03, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

The BBC site videos used to be only viewable in the UK though...I think I'll add it, as it's from a reputable news source (Youtube, for example, wouldn't be a good external link). Yohan euan o4 (talk) 15:29, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

The BBC website video played fine for me in Canada. Random89 19:48, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Any other videos on websites that my school hasn't blocked? HA! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.227.31.15 (talk) 19:34, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Videos hosted on the BBC website may not work for IP addresses outside the United Kingdom for copyright and bandwidth reasons. --♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 20:50, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Try Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2008/sep/23/finnish.shootings. BTW, why is the guy speaking english? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Geo8rge (talk • contribs) at 06:03, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

WP:BLP

Since Saari is still alive we need to be aware of WP:BLP issues. He is the "alleged perpetrator" until he is officially convicted. It is just reported that he died. Harry the Dog WOOF 14:33, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

The actions of the police will now be investigated.

obviously it should be "being investigated." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.102.111.57 (talk) 17:44, 23 September 2008 (UTC) or, on the other hand, I'm apparently an illiterate idiot and should keep my mouth shut...

This currently[1] reads "It was announced that the actions of the police would be investigated", hopefully that's in keeping with the encyclopedic style. Thank you for the suggestion! —Sladen (talk) 00:18, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Any injured?

Did anyone survive being shot, or were all of the shot people killed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by McLoaf (talk • contribs) 19:09, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

"You will die next" video

Article states that Matti Saari posted the "You will die next" video on last Friday, but I'm pretty sure he sent it to rapidshare.com not until the morning before the incident, along with some pictures and other videos. It certainly wasn't in his YouTube account, I saw those videos before the account was closed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.155.182.28 (talk) 19:37, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Due to the ongoing situation, there has been some confusion about this. There is a mirror of the suspended YouTube channel at [2]. The final video, entitled "Me and my Walther P22 Target", was added five days ago (given in media reports as Friday 19 September). The videos themselves are no longer available. It is reported that this one contained the words "You will die next", but any other comments here are welcome. --♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 21:00, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

This is still a confusing situation. The final video, entitled "Me and my Walther P22 Target", can be seen at the mirror site [3], but it does not contain the "You will die next" quote. At a guess, it may have been in one of the other videos and the police were informed about it on Friday 19 September. Can anyone help out here? --♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 08:46, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

The perpetrator

There needs to be more information on the perpetrator when the details have come more closely together. I will gladly help. {Tim C} 22:55, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Brilliant. The key thing is just to keep combing the news reports/police reports/statements as they come out. I think the latest BBC article[4] might have some new information near the top. —Sladen (talk) 00:13, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Copycat?

I do not think the BBC news source is enough to call this a copycat shooting.

It may bear some similarities to the Jokela school shooting, but there are also numerous differences.

• Jokela was a high school
  • Kauhajoki is a vocational college (TAFE right?).
• Auvinen used a SIG Mosquito
  • Saari used a Walther P22 (ok, weak, both .22 semi-automatic pistols).
• Auvinen used a gun alone
  • Saari is suggested to have used incendinary devices to start a fire.
• Auvinen did not conceal his identity from my understanding
  • Saari wore a balaclava.
• Auvinen considered himself an extremist god-like revolutionary judging humanity
  • No similar motivation appears to be from Saari. He seems a vindictive gun/war-fanatic obsessed with death and murder.

There is nothing more than journalistic speculation that this is a true copycat event, where Saari has deliberately gone to lengths to imitate Auvinen. I'd rather an official source (police) saying this is a definite copycat.

Or am I misunderstanding the use of teh term – will all Finnish school-shootings be considered Auvinen copycats?--ZayZayEM (talk) 23:24, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

He used YouTube to "warn" people. He published strikingly similar photos in terms of angles, he listened to industrial music (okay, this is pointless but good for the giggles), he used a .22 LR gun, he tried to set the school on fire but failed, he shot himself but did not die until he was hospitalized, and it wasn't obvious that he would do anything like that to any of his peers. --nlitement ^[talk] 23:36, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

*Shrug*. WP:VERIFY: "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth [..]". —Sladen (talk) 00:08, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Suggested change to "shooting" section

From: Saari remained at large for on the college grounds for approximately 90 minutes

To: Saari remained at large on the college grounds for approximately 90 minutes

59.100.201.243 (talk) 23:37, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Excellent suggestion. Done and credited![5] —Sladen (talk) 00:06, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Name change

I think this title needs to be changed to "school shooting" instead of "shooting incident." Seen any articles of school shootings similar to this one with "shooting incident" in the title? No. They're either "___ school shooting" or "___ school massacre," etc.

This must be changed. {Tim C} 23:56, 23 September 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cyanidethistles (talk • contribs)

I think it might be worth hanging on until the media and people in general standardise on their common usage, we can then follow that. Some end up being massacre (eg. Dunblame, Texas), others "shootings" or "school shooting". Current the school/college itself has used "shooting incident"[6]. —Sladen (talk) 00:03, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Wow

I Havent Seen Much Of This On The News. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.99.5.90 (talk • contribs) at 00:46, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Anyone know why the perpetrator did it?

Well, does anyone know why he shot all those people? I'm sure the problem is a thing that has lasted far before this incident. --Leiget (talk) 04:53, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

The chicks? But seriously, most likely for the fame and to 'live for ever'. I prefer stamp collecting myself. -G —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.48.58.2 (talk) 06:15, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Since I don't know the perpetrator personally, I can't tell you anything sure. But as a Finn, I can just say a few things about the Finnish society.

First, the culture is somewhat introverted, it's not rare that neighbours know nothing about each other — I've lived all my life in the same block of flats near downtown Helsinki and I've always said hello to my middle-aged neighbour. He has -never- said anything back. Literally.

Second, all the way from childhood, we are taught to do everything by ourselves and be the best in what ever we do. You must be the Formula 1 Champion, you must be the Olympic gold medalist in javelin, shotput and skiing, you must create the world's leading mobile phone company (Nokia), you must graduate from high school and university in a minimum period of time and with second-to-none grades — you must make it on your own, asking for help or showing your inner feelings is shameful.

Third, in my opinion, this is one of the most competition-oriented societies, many people just don't care anymore about how their fellow human beings are doing.

Fourth, money over mental health — year after year, our politicians keep paying lip service about putting more money on healthcare but nothing happens.

Welcome to Finland, land of the free and the insane. :/ -- Jepa (talk) 07:40, 24 September 2008 (UTC) PS. Don't forget your liquor and medication.

Jepa, your story makes a lot of sense, but you are borderline soapboxing now, which is not allowed here. I would like to advice the watching editors here to, from now on, remove topics like this. -- 145.92.14.237 (talk) 08:21, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Columbine youtube favourite

Anyone got any sources that it was actually on his favourites? I saw the page before it was taken down and i distinctly remember there being no link in his favourites to the columbine massacre. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.234.173.200 (talk) 05:42, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

I visited his favorites in YouTube before his account was suspended and he did have one Columbine tribute video in his favorites. Sadly i didn't take a screenshot of his account altough i thought about it realizing his account will close in a matter of hours. I can try to find the video he favorited on my browsing history if someones interested. Video removed Feelu (talk) 06:03, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

This has been mentioned by the media [7]. The mirror of the userpage at [8] gives twelve favourites, but does not seem to have a Columbine video, as only nine are shown.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 07:09, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

SCREEN CAPTURE OF YOUTUBE PAGE

There's a screen capture of his youtube page taken after the shooting and before deletion. Has several comments hailing him as a hero. Turns out the only user he subscribed to was also suspended. Checked myself.

-G —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.48.58.2 (talk • contribs) at 06:14, 24 September 2008