Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism

Archives:

• Archive 1 (Hebrew pronounciation; transliteration; article outlines discussions);
• Archive 2 ("Fundamentalism discussions": avoid using the word "fundamentalist"; academic sources for the word "fundamentalism");
• Archive 3 (Divine inspiration; Orthodox views of Mishnah and Talmud; Orthodox Judaism vs. "fundamentalism");
• Archive 4 (Science, Judaism & theology; science, homosexuality & Halakha);
• Archive 5 (Bias in articles; Topics & templates; Jewish vs. Christian Bible; "news" box; pronounciations; Doc. hypothesis; Hebrew language; dealing with anti-Semitism; holiday articles; Hebrews vs. Canaanites);
• Archive 6 (Samaritan Hebrew; Hebrew Wikisource & Mishnah Project; Siddur; Jews & Greece; Holocaust article; Ladino);
• Archive 7 (Ten Tribes; Jewish music; Parsha; kaddish; astrology; biographies; Niqqud; Yidiish Wiki; Chareidi project; historical topics; "Messianic Jews; Lists of Jews)
• Archive 8 (Categories for Jewish law and rituals; Jewish prayers; requested articles & moves; bereavement: brit-dam; eschatology);
• Archive 9 (Aim of project; Jewish vs. Christian perspectives; Tetragrammaton; avoiding the word "anti-Semitism" name calling; templates & citations; BC & AD vs a Jewish viewpoint; Portal Israel; Jewish Encyclopedia topics; WikiProject Jewish culture; new Wikipedian Hassidim; Jewish Encyclopedia images; Kaddish; Hebrew Bible sources; sanhedrin; mamzer; Tikkun olam; censorship; blech);
• Archive 10 (Protocols of the Elders; new templates; aleinu; Desi Jews; Kabbalah center; festivals; misleading articles; Purim;)
• Archive 11(Articles needing attention; Messianic prohesies; Adam&Eve; Ethics; Ropshitz; Sofer ST"M; 'Christian' Essenes; Jewish education; Masorti/Conservative; Yeshiva day school; Shira Hadasha; Vote/Portal/Expertise/; True Torah Jews; Deletionism; Category:Rabbis; Solomon);
• Archive 12(Interesting stuff, too much to list)

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Dates

I think that Jewish dates (23 Kislev, etc.) should have pages just like April 23. I have started a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Jewish dates; please continue discussion there.—msh210℠ 00:29, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Night (book)

In case anyone is interested, Night (book), Elie Wiesel's story, is up for featured article status. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 08:29, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Hasidism

Could I ask that at least one religious/observant Jew take a look at my comments at Talk:Hasidic Judaism#Very POV link? The link strikes me as unrepresentative of Hasidism, but perhaps it is all too representative and should stay. In any case, if it stays it should be better captioned. I don't feel qualified to make the judgment on this one. - Jmabel | Talk 02:42, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

The Third Temple and Shekhina articles

Hello, we're getting an influx of what appears to be Messianic Jewish POVs in The Third Temple and Shekhina articles giving what are claimed to be mainstream Christian POVs that -- I don't know for sure -- I suspect aren't very mainstream. Seeems like a repeat of a discussion we had a while back about Passover in which a Jesus-as-Passover-Offering POV was presented (except here we gave Jesus-as-Temple and Holy-Spirit-as-Shekhinah). Can someone with more knowledge of Christianity than myself check these claims out and see if we're getting a representive or a tiny-minority POV here? Also, the relevance of some of the material seems shaky -- there's a discussion going on in the articles' talk pages. Perhaps this could be checked out as well. --Shirahadasha 03:32, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Wikiproject Award

Has anyone seen the award proposal page? Is there any interest in proposing an award for this wikiproject?

I award this Award to Wikipedian for their great efforts on Wikipoject.

This is a simple sample of what one could look like. If you think it's appropriate, please place a proposal on the page.evrik 18:18, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Who is "Wikipedian" and what's "Wikipoject"?  :-D Tomer^talk 03:58, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

not such a fan of that one. but something can be done. i may have something to post shortly. --User:Yung Wei ^綪永徽 01:12, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I award this Award to Wikipedian for their great efforts on Wikiproject.

here's my creation. simple and doesn't ruin the somewhat standardized aesthetic of wikipedia. --User:Yung Wei ^綪永徽 01:33, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Alternate version

Here's an alternate version I just made:

Unfortunately, my Photoshop abilities don't measure up to those of whomever created the original barnstar... --Eliyak T·C 10:45, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

• There is a discussion about this going on now here. --evrik 17:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

I removed the barnstar I made pending some sort of improvement ideas. Masterhomer File:Yin yang.png 20:02, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Aliyah, in the sense of the bimah

There is a vocabulary question at Talk:Aliyah#before and after the reading - Jmabel | Talk 19:15, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

• answered. - Jmabel | Talk 04:47, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Key articles for Wikipedia 1.0

Hello! We at the Work via WikiProjects team for Wikipedia 1.0 would like you to identify the "key articles" from your project that should be included in a small CD release due to their importance, regardless of quality. We will use that information to assess which articles should be nominated for Version 0.5 and later versions. Hopefully it will help you identify which articles are the most important for the project to work on. As well, please add to the Judaism WikiProject article table any articles of high quality. If you are interested in developing a worklist such as this one (new) for your WikiProject, or having a bot generate a worklist like this one automatically for you, please contact us. Please feel free to post your suggestions right here. Thanks! Walkerma 04:55, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject Judaism's involvement in Wikiversity

Since Wikiversity recently launched, I think there should be a presense of WikiProject Judaism in it. If anyone wants to teach any subject releated on Judaism or wants to help the project in anyway, please let me know. Masterhomer File:Yin yang.png 06:06, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

CALL TO ARMS: CREATE THE FIRST OPEN JEWISH STUDIES COLLEGE IN THE WORLD

• Need: Lessons and books
• Need: Teachers

Wikiversity: School of Jewish Studies

Transcription/Transliteration conventions for Hebrew

I understand there is an official policy for how Hebrew terms should be transliterated, Wikipedia: Naming conventions (Hebrew), which requires modern Sephardic Hebrew as well as apostrophes in certain places. A number of articles -- Chanuyos comes to mind -- are titled in Ashkenazic Hebrew and would need to be renamed, and vast numbers of articles have various words in variant transliterations. There had been a previous discussion about carving out an exception, e.g. for Ashkenazic individual and place names, but this exception doesn't seem to have made its way into the policy. --Shirahadasha 16:41, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I've moved it. I agree that all pages should be moved to conventional spelling. JFW | T@lk 18:31, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Clarification: I've been given to understand that this is a draft and that no official policy has been adopted yet. I edited the document to make this clearer. --Shirahadasha 21:31, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Hello, we're having an interest mix of academics (including folks arguing for Tiberian Hebrew since, being the ancestor of all modern dialects, it's considered philologically representative of them all) and Haredi folks (including folks arguing for Ashkenazic Hebrew on grounds that any other use could lead to apostacy etc.) Perhaps some input from "regular" Hebrew users whose native language is English, and who could represent the interests of the average Jewish-interest Wikipedian, might be helpful. --Shirahadasha 19:30, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism!!!!

I reverted the Rashi page to a prior edit because of the worst kind of vandalism. <samples removed. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 00:43, 25 August 2006 (UTC)> (!Mi luchador nombre es amoladora de la carne y traigo el dolor! 20:10, 24 August 2006 (UTC))

We are open to all and unfortunartely, this happens from time to time. I took the liberty to remove examples here: no need to duplicate it. A good place to report ongoing vandalism at Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism (WP:AIV for short), see also Wikipedia:Vandalism in progress (WP:VIP). Thank you. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 00:43, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Islamic Barnstar Award

Please offer your opinion, vote, or whatever about your choice for the image to be used with the Islamic Barnstar Award at the Barnstar proposals page. Although there is consensus for the concept of an Islamic Barnstar Award, some editors would like to change the image for the award. I was just thinking you should be aware of this discussion because you have contributed to Islamic-related articles, received the Islamic Barnstar Award, or have contributed to the Islam-related Wikiprojects, etc.--JuanMuslim ^1m 17:13, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Jews for Jesus#A belief in divinity of Jesus is incompatible with Judaism

Some editors dispute this. Please take a look and express yourself. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 23:01, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Exilarch

This edit claims to correct Exilarch. Since it is an anonymous uncited edit claiming to correct a statement from the Jewish Encyclopedia, I'm pretty skeptical. The issue is whether Jehoiachin (JE) or Zedekiah (anon., uncited) is the last king descended from David. Does anyone know if there is any reason at all to doubt the JE here? If so, please cite; if you are sure there is not, please revert. Thanks. - Jmabel | Talk 04:18, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Transcribed and answered on article's talk section under heading "Which king was it?" --Shirahadasha 05:17, 31 August 2006 (UTC).

New template for articles needing Hebrew script

I have created a new template {{Hebrew script}}, to tag any articles about a place, name, or concept originally written in the Hebrew alphabet, but which does not include that version in the article. It adds these articles automatically to Category:Articles needing Hebrew script, where people knowledgeable in Hebrew can sort them out. The idea was based on {{Arabic}}. Rigadoun (talk) 17:35, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Member list in alphabetical order

I noticed that the member list off WP:Judaism was not in alphabetical order (though it is supposed to be) and therefore I have taken the initiative to alphabetize it. Valley2city 21:36, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. :) Masterhomer File:Yin yang.png 22:05, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

What happened to the Template section?

Can anyone explain what happened to the template section? I am confused and baffled. Masterhomer File:Yin yang.png 22:10, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm bewildered...and here I thought we had fixed all the problems with it a coupla months ago... Tomer^talk 23:34, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Typical programming bug- template:tt was missing a "/" --Eliyak T·C 06:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Editor Review

Hi! I've requested an Editor review. If you have time, I'd very much appreciate your thoughts. Best, --Shirahadasha 06:09, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Defining Halakha LeMoshe MiSinai

Please add your learned comments whether Halakha LeMoshe MiSinai should be part of the Oral Torah article or not. See the discussions at Talk:Oral Torah#Defining Halakha LeMoshe MiSinai. Thank you. IZAK 08:37, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Jewish WIKIVERSITY

NEW: On Wikiversity there is now a "Jewish Studies School." Will it become a "duplication" of many things on Wikipedia? What should it's goals and functions be? Please add your learned views. Thank you. IZAK 09:00, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

P'tcha

Rescued from prod. Please improve. - CrazyRussian talk/email 04:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Edits by User:Fduffy to Hebrew Bible articles and topics

For anyone with an interest in all the articles about the Hebrew Bible; Tanakh, Torah and related subjects, User:FDuffy, who is very serious and devoted to the Biblical criticism POV (by his own admission he is a "third year theology student"), has recently resumed serious editing of Hebrew Bible articles and subjects. Please see the extensive edits via Contributions/FDuffy Your involvement, responses and edits would be important at this juncture, especially if you are capable of adding material from classical Judaic sources since most of these articles are lacking the teachings of Judaism, their obvious true source. Thank you. IZAK 11:53, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

User:FDuffy appears to have identified a single source for his claims that e.g. "most" scholars believe that Samuel in the story of Hannah really refers to Saul. (The source is identified in the King Saul article, although the claim has been added to a number of other articles without copying the source citation). The source indicated is the personal web site of one Rabbi Moshe Reiss, [1], a self-published source. Per WP:RS,

A self-published source is a published source that has not been subject to any form of independent fact-checking, or where no one stands between the writer and the act of publication. It includes personal websites, and books published by vanity presses. Anyone can create a website or pay to have a book published, and then claim to be an expert in a certain field. For that reason, self-published books, personal websites, and blogs are largely not acceptable as sources.

None of the exceptions to self-published sources (e.g. by someone known to be highly regarded in a field) appear to apply here. Accordingly, it appears that all this content is unsourced and should be deleted. I believe this is particularly so since the content makes claims such as "most textual scholars" hold, claims that are clearly so untenable in light of the sources provided as to cast even more doubt on this content. --Shirahadasha 18:29, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

I fought a lot with Francis Duffy last year. He was quite unhelpful in backing up his edits with serious sources, always claiming that his views were those of "the academics" (and presumably were therefore above citation, being obvious fact et al). A veritable war was raging on both Sons of Noah and Ten Commandments, the former with Codex Sinaiticus (talk · contribs) and the latter with myself as his main antagonists. His obvious lack of respect for tradition (see his userpage), his total disinterest for NPOV and his tendency to provide unsourced material are a big problem.

I feel this user should be the subject of an RFC if he has returned to his previous behaviour. There have been enough policy violations in the past, plus a healthy dose of incivility, to make this user a case for worry. JFW | T@lk 20:14, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

"Obvious fact" is a WP:NOR violation, especially as distinguished from "common knowledge". Tomer^talk 23:56, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

I looked up Samuel in the Jewish Encyclopedia, which has the line "Indeed, the temptation is strong to suspect that originally the name (Saul) was found as the hero of the victory, for which later that of (Samuel) was substituted." So there is, or at least was, something to this hypothesis. Don't know whether "the temptation is strong to suspect" ever became "most [or any]critical scholars believe", but if this source is used as a basis, mention could be made of the hypotheisis as long as it is presented (a) in the speculative terms the source states it, and (b) as the Jewish encyclopedia's point of view Will check further, but probably not this week. Best, --Shirahadasha 16:08, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

The Jewish Encyclopedia says, among other things (note that some of the hyperlinked words are missing from my cut + paste here for some reason):

The outline of the life of Samuel given in the First Book of Samuel is a compilation from different documents and sources of varying degrees of credibility and age, exhibiting many and not always concordant points of view (see ). The name "Shemu'el" is interpreted "asked of ," and, as Ḳimḥi suggests, represents a contraction of , an opinion which Ewald is inclined to accept ("Lehrbuch der Hebräischen Sprache," p. 275, 3). But it is not tenable. The story of Samuel's birth, indeed, is worked out on the theory of this construction of the name (i. 1 et seq., 17, 20, 27, 28; ii. 20). But even with this etymology the value of the elements would be "priest of El" (Jastrow, in "Jour. Bib. Lit." xix. 92 et seq.). Ch. iii. supports the theory that the name implies "heard by El" or "hearer of El." The fact that "alef" and "'ayin" are confounded in this interpretation does not constitute an objection; for assonance and not etymology is the decisive factor in the Biblical name-legends, and of this class are both the first and the second chapter. The first of the two elements represents the Hebrew term "shem" (= "name"); but in this connection it as often means "son." "Shemu'el," or "Samuel," thus signifies "son of God" (see Jastrow, l.c.). (emphasis added)

The New American Bible, in a footnote for 1 Samuel 1:20 says:

Since she had asked: this explanation would be more directly appropriate for the name Saul, which means "asked"; Samuel means "name of God."

It seems to me that far from being interested in checking sources, that Shirahadasha, Jfdwolff, and Codex Siniaticus are far more interested in removing any material that contradicts their literalist/semi-literalist stances on the accuracy of the Bible. Im not sure where the passage that Shirahadasha has quoted derives from, but selectively reading sources, and missing out the main arguments is really not appropriate.

--User talk:FDuffy 14:39, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

I should add that now I will be a 4th year (or rather an MA) theology student. --User talk:FDuffy 14:51, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject Judaism Award

Check out - WikiProject Judaism Award. --JuanMuslim ^1m 03:28, 9 September 2006 (UTC)