Talk:Roswell incident/Archive 2

New Section: Roswell as misidentified military programs: The Air Force reports and Project Mogul

The next section has been added, though it is not yet complete. I've written the 1994/5 Air Force report section, but have not yet written the "critique" part beyond the opening paragraph, and left a lot of the following stuff intact.

I've also eliminated some duplicated sections, and some stuff which rests on the POV assumption that a cover-up was covering up something sinister.

I'll address the critiques of the 1994 report, then move onto the 1997 report and ITS critiques next.

Canada Jack 03:17, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Just added the "critques" section of the Air Force reports section. Next: Moore's Mogul flight 4 reconstruction with references to critisims (like Rudiak's), and then the 1997 Air Force Case Closed report.

159.33.10.92 20:33, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Now I've added the Mogul flight reconstruction. Next is the 1997 Air Force report addressing aliens.

Canada Jack 20:57, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Major Edits

I've done some major editing, first adding the 1997 Air Force report. I still have to complete the critique, and a follow-up on how many of the UFO researchers have been discredited (Scmitt; Alien film; Majestic, etc)

I've also taken out a lot of stuff that was a) redundant (like the FBI transcript, stuff on the Ramey photo, etc.,) b) stuff which was not about Roswell (general stuff about UFOs don't speak to Roswell itself) and c) stuff which will be dealt with briefly later (or in the case of the "strange experiments theory already in the later developments section). Most of the stuff gone is stuff that has been established to be hoaxes - like the Alien autopsy. They will be afforded brief mentions.

Thanks for the patience, folks, I am nearly done.

Canada Jack 22:01, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Too Biased Toward Air Force's Claims

I appreciate the work, Canada Jack, and your summaries are good. But I think they're skewing the article too much, turning it almost into a report on the Air Force reports. (And "Case Closed" this story is not, regardless whose story you personally happen to believe. The cultural mythos surrounding this topic is already way too big and fascinating for such a simple, "factual" or "scientific" dismissal.) This is supposed to be a NPOV article on the Roswell Incident, which would ideally give reasonable weight to all important dimensions of the story, and not tip the scales too much towards one particular theorist's claims (in this case, those by Colonel Richard Weaver of the USAF). I personally don't buy the alien crash-landing story myself, but I don't think the Mogul explanation fits the evidence either, particular as detailed by Stanton T. Friedman. Also, the "strange experiments theory" you mention above, especially as described by Nick Redfern in Body Snatchers in the Desert, most definitely warrants more space on this article, since it strikes an intriguing "third possibility" that isn't covered by either polarity currently outlined--i.e., the Project Mogul and Alien Spaceship theories. I don't have time to write such a thing myself, at least not in the immediate future, but if anyone out there is knowledgeable about that White Sands/Japanese Unit 731 angle (including perhaps you, Canada Jack?), it would be great to include a full description about that. And, as I'm suggesting, it would be ideal to cut down the length of the Air Force 'Case Closed' summary as well--and not just because it makes the Wikipedia entry for Roswell just a bit toooo lonnnngggg...

The truth is out there. :)

Kosmocentric 19:16, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, I've just added the critiques to the Air Force's 1997 report, so perhaps some of your objections have been met. AS for the cultural mythos surrounding the event, it would seem to me the rather lengthy list of cultural references and my note that despite the Air Force reports, most people believe that "something happened" at Roswell partly answers that.

But one point is valid - and that is the "weight" to the Air Force reports, and its considerable length. Once I'm done - and all I now have left is a smaller section on some of the post Air Force developments (which unfortunately for the UFO-believer side, involves a lot of subsequent discrediting of many chief witnesses and a few authors) - I will suggest we split the Air Force reports off to another page, replaced with a precis section on it. But I think the Air Force reports deserve a fair bit more coverage than before, and to be allowed to "stand alone" without tons of POV arguments. The critiques sections, I would say, have some pretty potent arguments against the reports, and they stand. But before, we didn't get a clear picture as to what the Air Force actually argued. For example, there were numerous explanations in the 1997 report as to how six-foot dummies could be mistaken for four-foot aliens found in the report, yet that was never apparant before. Or to the rather basic point that witnesses actually described themselves these aliens as perhaps being "dummies."

My particular problem with the Redfern idea is that it seems ad-hoc, coming almost 60 years after the events in question, without any concrete evidence from ANYWHERE that these sort of experiments were being carried out. A short mention suffices, I believe. I mean, why not time travellers? or assuming some of the fictional treatments mentioned in the end may be true? IMHO we stick to the scenarios which carry a lot of adherents, make some references to others. But perhaps others could chime in here?

Canada Jack 00:26, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Wikiproject Paranormal

I just wanted to take a minute to say hello and let the folks who regularly watch this article know that Wikproject Paranormal has selected this article as our collaboration of the month. So don't be surprised if you see some new faces sprucing up the article and speaking up here on the talk page. We'd ideally like to get this article up to snuff to have it featured on the main page, so if we do something too drastic or that you disagree with please just let us know. Thanks — ripley\^talk 17:17, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm a bit late to the party I guess... but I'd figured I'd lend a hand. The article actualy looks quite good. Just some ruff edges. ---J.S (t|c) 20:05, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Yup. Check the ToDo list and the discussion at the bottom; we've only got a little bit to go before we've got ourselves as GA! --InShaneee 00:03, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

New page for Air Force reports

I've split off the main body of text for the Air Force report to a separate page, and drastically shortened the text here on the same subject.

Canada Jack 17:45, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

That's great, Canada Jack. The new Air Force page is good. Kosmocentric 01:39, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

The Cold War, military experiments and flying saucers

I think this section needs to be removed, with what's absolutely needed for context merged into other sections of the article. This is about UFO phenominon in general, and doesn't even mention Roswell. While I accept that it helps set the tone for the article, surely wikilinks to the relevant material would be more appropriate. --InShaneee 17:56, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Since most of the material comes up later, that's probably a good idea.

Canada Jack 18:32, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree that a lot of this text is superfluous, but I'd like to see the information about the rise of UFO reports in that time period retained; I think it's important context. — ripley\^talk 18:51, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

It is, yes, but I don't think it belongs here. Perhaps there's another article it can be linked to (or one can be created) instead? --InShaneee 18:55, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I think any discussion of critics' rebuttal of Roswell as an alien incident would not be well served without context about the rise of weather balloons and subsequent rise of UFO reporting. It doesn't have to be extensive, but this article should at least touch on it, IMO. I've significantly cut out the extraneous detail about Soviets and the Cold War, except what's necessary to explain why there were so many secret weather balloon projects. I've left the bit in about the couple but I wouldn't object to it being deleted. I'm not sure this is the best place for the section, though -- it may need to be moved down or merged elsewhere. — ripley\^talk 18:57, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, if it's neccisary for the criticism section, perhaps it can be worked in there. --InShaneee 21:28, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Concern about copyrighted information

As I've been copyediting this article today, I've noticed a large number of quotation marks that appear as ” -- rather than " (you can see the difference when you click on edit). This generally happens when text is cut and pasted from another source. This makes me wary of the potential for copyright violations in this article. We should be especially watchful of this and fix it where needed. — ripley\^talk 18:56, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I've included many direct quotes, but noticed that there were differences in the quotation mark styles. Not knowing what was "style" and what was not, I may have cut and copied some of those quotation marks as they existed earlier (to preserve open and closed quotes). Those quotes are cited by source. Often these quotes appear in multiple sources citing the original source, and I assumed that there was a "fair use" to using verbatim quotes - from witnesses - especially if those quotes appear in public documents such as the Air Force reports.

If there is a question about lifting actual text as if I wrote it, everything down to the Air Force reports (and including same) is what I wrote, except where I use quotes or paraphrase the opinions of others with a citation.

I'll be happy to clarify any concerns here and can flag what is not "fair use". For example, quoting an author rather than a quote of a witness.

Canada Jack 20:04, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Absolutely, bits of quotes are definitely fair use. I mentioned that only as a general caution flag -- not meaning to accuse anybody of anything deliberately malicious. Thanks Jack. — ripley\^talk 20:07, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

No offence taken. This is only the second article I have written, and I am not sure what is and isn't fair use and I appreciate any comments like the above so I do this in the proper fashion. Suffice to say, I've assumed that any direct quote needs to be cited, and any specific claim (like "some say x is a liar") needs a reference. And that lifting text from books or websites and plonking them down and not indicating such is plagarism. That's why I took great care to make sure I actually composed the article and cited anything I didn't write.

BTW, so far, things look good - when you guys are done (I hope you don't tear what I've done to shreds) I'll address some of the citation issues I've already seen. For example "11" crash sites has a specific source.

Keep up the good work.

Canada Jack 20:30, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Roswell as an alien recovery and government cover-up

I'm not quite sure to make of this section. Much seems to be a rehash of information from earlier sections, the rest is unsourced, and the whole thing talks about its topic assuming it is correct. Any thoughts about what to do here? --InShaneee 21:49, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

In fact, the several scenarios come from the two cited sources, which, IMHO, more or less incorporate the general thrust of those who assert aliens were recovered and the government is lying about it. I could draw from more sources, but I think that would be redundant and simply gratuitously add a lot of extraneous sources when only several here need suffice.

The main differences in the various scenarios is which precise landing sites were the focus of alien recoveries, and which precise dates the recoveries started on.

As for the comment that it is a rehash of earlier sections, I am not sure that is completely accurate - though certain interpretations of events are mentioned, the actual scenario is nowhere else depicted and the reasons certain witnesses are said to have been here or there really only becomes apparent when you see the timelines presented.

It "assumes it is correct" only because it presents the case at face value - and I took care to underline that that is what THEY believe, not what is "self-evident" or what have you. AS I said when I took on this task, presenting the cases here is very difficult because of the widely divergent beliefs on what is valid and what is not. Presenting the sides as I have done here more or less at face value I believe answers that problem.

In the end, it is up to the casual reader to decide who has the more believable story here, and as long as I present the sides fairly, I think we can let the reader decide for himself. There is more than enough opportunity beyond the text itself to explore the issues on thier own via the links etc.

Canada Jack 01:38, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

I haven't read the sections in question in any depth yet (I may have time to do so tomorrow), but (with apologies if I've put words in your mouth) I think Inshaneee is probably searching for ways to trim the article. It's way too long, and streamlining overly verbose passages and removing redundancies is one easy way to do that without losing significant information. That's just what I did to the "cultural" section, for instance -- I removed the most superfluous references and edited the rest to be within 2-3 lines of text. — ripley\^talk 05:33, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Precisely, ripley, thank you. This article is almost twice as long as the suggested article length, but I think there's plenty of places (like here) where we can merge content or simply make things more concise. --InShaneee 15:06, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Certainly condensing or eliminating the section will save space, I am just concerned that the alien recovery scenario will therefore be accorded short shrift.

But that's just my opinion - if there is a concensus that omitting such information still satisfies the objectives of wikipedia, so be it. As I said before, I am new here...

Canada Jack 16:13, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

I think, as long as it can be sourced, we can cut most of it out (I don't think a complete timeline is neccisarily needed), and merge it elsewhere. --InShaneee 16:18, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Regardless of what is decided, what we leave here does need to be re-edited for tone. As it stands, it presents the entire scenario as fact (hence, if edited down to the relevent points, it would be much easier to present as an allegation). --InShaneee 16:34, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Personally (and this is just my opinion), I'd completely seperate the different versions of this incident (coverup, balloon etc), and then present the pro followed by con/dubunk for each version together, with both the pro-con/debunk presented as if they were fact. As things stand, its one persons version against another and we frankly don't know which veriso is true, if any. Treat everything as if it were credible and true and let the reader decide which side they believe.

perfectblue 20:12, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm just talking terminology, such as 'alleges', ect. --InShaneee 20:24, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Ramey and Brazel

Some questions/observations about these guys and their treatment in the article:

1) Is the Ramey telegraph image really that significant? Though I sympathize with the UFO crowd, I think this piece of "evidence" is pretty silly, as one can't really tell anything (IMHO) from looking at that picture. Now, if the image has been discussed by some of the major writers on Roswell, then I suppose it can stay, with proper citations, but if it's just something posted on someone's website, then I think we can remove it. What do other people think? (I'll admit that I don't know as much about Roswell as some of the people here, so if I'm realy out-of-touch, just let me know).

2) Maybe I'm not reading closely enough, but it's not clear to me what Brazel actually thought about the debris he found. Did he think it came from a weather balloon, or did he think it was from a UFO? Thanks, Zagalejo 17:44, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

One other thing: It's my understanding that the crash occurred closer to Corona, New Mexico than Roswell. Is this true? If so, I think it should be mentioned in the article. Zagalejo 17:44, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

The Ramey telegraph is one of the later developments in the case, largely promoted by David Rudiak as describing "victims of the wreck." There was a lot more on this before, I reduced it to a short paragraph, but in terms of emphasis I'm not so sure it is truly the "smoking gun" some claim it to be.

I think the short paragraph is fine, but it definitely deserves a mention (i.e., DON'T DELETE IT, please). I've been a student of the Roswell story for well over a decade, and I think anyone interested in the subject needs to know about the Ramey memo. One can play with the images in Photoshop oneself and bring out details that aren't just products of Rudiak's biased imagination. But the fact is, this is one of the ONLY pieces of objective, hard evidence that the Roswell "crashed vehicle" (alien or otherwise) proponents have going for them, so it's very important amidst all the endless eyewitness and first-, second-, and third-hand anecdotes. Rudiak has downloadable versions of the memo available here. Kosmocentric 01:07, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

As for Brazel - and for anyone quoted in those early reports (Brazel was dead by the time this became a big deal years later) - the only description of this as a "flying saucer/disc" comes from the initial press release. Brazel at best says it's NOT a weather balloon as he had seen those before, but as is noted no one knew what a "flying saucer" was supposed to look like just days after the phrase was coined.

As for Corona, this is one of the numerous crash sites put forward by UFO researchers, though none are specifically mentioned save for San Agustin. Not sure if we need to be specific?

It's worth mentioning Corona. That's the nearest identifiable 'town' to where the Foster ranch debris field was located, by all accounts. Nobody has ever claimed the crash happened in Roswell. It's just the nearest big town/city. Kosmocentric 01:14, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Canada Jack 19:16, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your responses. I just found this page describing all the alleged crash sites, so I guess there's been a debate over it. I'm not sure how the article should treat this issue, but the most important thing is to stress at all points that the crash, wherever it was, did not occur in Roswell proper (and I think the article does this, for the most part). Zagalejo 20:29, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

As I mentioned in the article itself, something like 11 crash sites have been claimed. The above-mentioned site lists six sites, some around the ranch and therefore close to Corona, others not. And the Air Force centred on two accounts, one near San Agustin (no where near Corona) and the other Jim Ragsdale accounts which I believe were not near Corona.

"Roswell" is pretty good shorthand for the claims, though not geographically accurate. But since there are many claims as to crash sites and none which could be deemed "official" (try, for example, get Randle and Friedman to see anything eye-to-eye, for example...) by definition, I was rather vague other than to suggest they were claimed to be linked to the Roswell UFO incident.

Canada Jack 21:41, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Ibid

Could users please reframe from using ibidem (ibid) as a citation mark. I know that it's proper reference form in research papers, but sections get moved around so much on pages like this that it is not always clear what is the original citation being referenced actually is (if indeed it has not been changed or deleted by another user). Instead just use a named reference tag < ref name = ABC > ref details < / ref> and then < ref name = ABC / > there after. If you do this, it will automatically Ibid for you. If you want to include the page number, just put it in brackeds after you close the reference tag.

Thank you

perfectblue 18:58, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Roswell as misidentified military programs: The Air Force reports and Project Mogul

I just noticed that this section begins with a link to Air Force Reports on Roswell UFO Incident. I think this presents a great opportunity to cut down this section, as it is essentially ALL duplicate material from that article (including the image). --InShaneee 18:43, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

In fact, the Air Force section was all on the Roswell page, so I created a new page and moved most of the material over there, drastically cutting down the Roswell section.

Canada Jack 15:51, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Alright, cool. Still, we need to further cut down the section on this page now (including removing the image), since there's no need to duplicate content. --InShaneee 16:11, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

I cut down on the length of the title... seemed to stretch out the TOC a bunch. ---J.S (t|c) 20:02, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Precis

I'm about to undertake what will probably be a fairly major precis of the article, trimming extraneous information where I can (without removing significant content -- for instance we can just say "at another ranch" instead of "at the Foster Ranch 70 miles away from Roswell" without removing much significant information). But, I have little personal knowledge of the story so if I end up inadvertently removing something you feel is significant to lay readers' understanding, please let me know. — ripley\^talk 18:42, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm not convinced this is a good move. If you change "at the Foster Ranch 70 miles away from Roswell" to "at another ranch" you are likely to be asked for details. Removing informative text is not helpful IMMHO. Moriori 20:08, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Saying "Foster ranch" begs the question of who "Foster is," and that means more information that adds nothing. That it was a ranch 70 miles from Roswell I think is enough, but I'm open to hearing others' opinions. Or is it important in a non-obvious way whose ranch it was on? — ripley\^talk 22:22, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

I couldn't make it through the whole thing today, but did do most of the article. I've also moved off what amounts to block quotes from various primary witnesses into its own article, Witness accounts at Roswell. It may also be a good idea to move the secondary witnesses there too, but I don't want to be too hasty. — ripley\^talk 19:51, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

IMHO, if you are to move the primary witnesses to a new page, you should do likewise to the secondary witnesses. As it stands (and I realize you are only partway through this) we jump from contemporary news reports to the more fantastic and mostly second-hand accounts of aliens etc.

I'd suggest moving ALL statements across (and, I realize, you may be in the midst of doing exactly that), and to leave a failry brief into on the main page along the lines of: There are numerous witness accounts which roughly fall along the lines of descriptions of similar material from the ranch to Ft Worth; later accounts tell of alien recoveries and witness intimidation, etc.

Canada Jack 15:16, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Personally I agree, but I wanted to give people time to adjust to the idea of moving any of the statements at all -- if nobody objects today then we should go on and complete the move I think. — ripley\^talk 15:27, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Rewrites

Just redid the "Air Force" section, just to more properly summarize what the new page says. (What was there didn't really speak to it) The "witness" sections, just moved, should get a similar rewrite on both the "Roswell" page and on the newly created page. I'll do it eventually if you guys don't.

Canada Jack 19:18, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Go for it! Thanks CJ. — ripley\^talk 21:17, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Cultural influence

I'm going to be working on this section in my userspace, as it's poorly organized and could use some pruning. So, if anyone has suggestions, let me know. Zagalejo 19:48, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Just thinking outloud here, but do you think the 'tourism' section would be better suited to the actual Town article, with a mention here? --InShaneee 16:33, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps, but I think a paragraph about it here is justified, since it helps demonstrate the ongoing cultural resonance of the Roswell incident. The incident has profoundly affected the town, and I could have gone into a lot more detail than I actually did. If space continues to be an issue, however, I'll see if I can trim it down. Zagalejo 16:48, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

(For the record, there is NOTHING about tourism on the town's page). --InShaneee 16:52, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm... Judging by comments on that article's talk page, it seems that the editors want to keep the UFO stuff to a bare minimum. They probably expected this page to talk about it. However, everything I've found suggests that UFO tourism has become an important part of the town. It'll be the first thing any directory or travel site mentions. Zagalejo 17:19, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Addendum: there is a brief line about tourism at the town page: "Roswell has benefited from interest in the alleged UFO incident, and in more recent times the business community has deliberately sought out tourists interested in UFOs." I do think that the town page should go into this in more detail. However, I still contend that this article would not be comprehensive without its own paragraph about tourism. Zagalejo 17:22, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Any detailed examination should probably reside on the city's article itself, but I don't have a problem with a short paragraph stating that it's impacted the town's tourism. We could perhaps place it with the paragraph about the museum. — ripley\^talk!

Good job

Just want to say that you guys have done a good job of paring this article down and keeping the essence here. I might have a couple very minor things to tinker with but over-all, it looks good.

I was considering adding a short section on how many Roswell claims have now been proven to be frauds, and how some UFO authors have dismissed some of their own research (but which is still touted on some websites as "evidence"), but this seems now to be extraneous.

I could still do this if it is felt to be necessary. Otherwise I think this is pretty well done.

Canada Jack 22:27, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Some of the more recent edits here don't make much sense to me.

Omitting the Air Force reports - which identified the likely source of the 1947 debris - while including Bill Clinton's opinion, seems a rather strange choice here.

The key aspects of the skeptical response surely are a) accounting for whatever was found on the ranch in 1947 and b) explaining the reports of aliens.

Surely the Air Force reports deserve a paragraph or a section, with a redirect to the page.

Canada Jack 18:10, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

I think the problem is that the Air Force reports already have their own article. So all we need in this article is a brief summation, which I believe is what's there. If someone wants more detailed information they can click on the other article. — e. ripley\^talk 18:22, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, when I checked earlier, that section had been completely omitted, now it has been reinstated along with some other stuff which probably should be there too.

What was there and now seems to be back is imho adequeat.

Maybe I should wait until the edits are done (d'oh!)

Canada Jack 18:49, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

I think we're really moving along nicely; once we can finish off those concerns in the 'to do' list, we'll be ready for a Peer Review, and then I'm confident a GA nom will pass for sure. --InShaneee 01:10, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, definitely doing much better. I think the intro paragraphs are handled pretty well, but the rest of the article just feels too choppy and I'm not exactly sure how to fix it. — e. ripley\^talk 16:03, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

The intro paragraph is way to long is the problem (one of the GA/FA requirements); and yes, we should discuss an overall structure for the rest of the article. --InShaneee 16:06, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Evaluation of External Links

Well, in the spirit of WP:NOT a collection of links and WP:EL, lets evaluate the external links section. Here's the criteria I'd like to use:

1. Does the website linked provide useful information not already available on wikipedia?
2. Does the website infringe on any one's copyrights?
3. Is the website a "mushroom"? (Ie, springs up over night and all it has to stand on is bullshit)
4. Is the link redundant to a link already in the references section?

If no to 1 and/or yes to any of the rest, then it's time to remove it. ---J.S (t|c) 00:42, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

P.S. This is an invitation for discussion... I'm not trying to own the page:) ---J.S (t|c) 00:46, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

• "The Roswell Incident" Documents, Timeline, Air Force reports, Witness List.

Evaluation: Recommendation: ~~~~

• 1994 USAF Executive Summary of their first Roswell report, The Roswell Report Fact vs. Fiction in the New Mexico Desert

Evaluation: Recommendation: ~~~~

• Mogul balloon synopsis from Air Force report

Evaluation: Recommendation: ~~~~

• USAF Executive Summaries of 1994 and 1997 reports

Evaluation: Recommendation: ~~~~

• Link to GAO report

Evaluation: - Geocities personal website... But it seems to contain some well researched material Recommendation: Tentative keep ---J.S (t|c) 00:42, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

• Complete 1995 Air Force Roswell report, mostly old Project Mogul files, 1000+ pages (very long download)

Evaluation: Recommendation: ~~~~

• An answer to the Case Closed statement Criticism of the 1997 USAF "Case Closed" or "crash dummy" report, from Dr. Mark Rodeghier, director of the Center for UFO Studies in Chicago.

Evaluation: Recommendation: ~~~~

• Criticism of the Air Force Roswell reports from Roswell researcher Stanton T. Friedman

Evaluation: Recommendation: ~~~~

• Sci Fi network website on Roswell incident

Evaluation: Recommendation: ~~~~

• Roswell researcher Dennis Balthaser's website; includes some witness interviews, FOIA information requests, Roswell summary, and more.

Evaluation: Recommendation: ~~~~

• Critical review of Redfern's "horrible experiments" theory from OVNI Global UFO Network; excellent research.

Evaluation: Recommendation: ~~~~

• History of Roswell for July 1947

Evaluation: Seems almost entirely redundant to "Debunkery of the Ramey message" below. Recommendation: Remove ---J.S (t|c) 00:42, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

• Entry of the Rotten Library about Roswell (skeptical look at both sides)

Evaluation: Recommendation: ~~~~

• The Skeptic's Dictionary entry for Roswell (debunkery with many links to other debunking articles and books)

Evaluation: Often quoted skepdic.com. Material is mostly redundant to Wikipedia. Recommendation: Keep ---J.S (t|c) 00:42, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

• Skeptical Inquirer article on Mogul explanation (skeptical)

Evaluation: Recommendation: ~~~~

• Debunkery of the Ramey message

Evaluation: - AOL personal website... But it seems to contain some well researched material. Seems redundant to "History of Roswell for July 1947" however. Recommendation: Tenitive keep ---J.S (t|c) 00:42, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

• www.ufocasebook.com:Search:Roswell UFO Incident

Evaluation: Recommendation: ~~~~