User talk:Jniemenmaa

Welcome to Wikipedia. I know it's addictive:-) -- WojPob

Thanks! :)

I saw your stubs on Provinces of Finland and Historical provinces of Finland. I presume that you saw some of my stubs for the provinces in question. Take a look at the template at Wikipedia:WikiProject historical provinces in Finland if you want to give some input. / Mic

I am just posting to see how it works.

Jas2000

Yes, it looks like thats all he ever wrote. As they were both nominated for awards you wonder why he stopped... fojxl 12:35 Apr 4, 2003 (UTC)

What the hell are you talking about on Prime Ministers? STÓD/ÉÍRE 15:13 Apr 9, 2003 (UTC)

Huh? I am not talking about anything on Prime Minister. If you are talking about the strange comment to my edit, it was due to a cut-n-paste accident. JNi 15:21 Apr 9, 2003 (UTC)

Sorry, I thought you were suggesting that the article was based on copyright material or an external source. It isn't. It is based on fifteen years of research on the topic by me. I write about this topic for a living. STÓD/ÉÍRE 15:25 Apr 9, 2003 (UTC)

Yes its a mountain wargamers wetdream. I hope I can learn c++ well enough to make a wargame featuring all 10,000 mountain guns in a glorious Alpine battle. Peter Chamberlain

The pbv501 is no longer used by the Swedish Army. Is is kept in stores, but is not doing any active duty. No soldiers are trained for this vehicle and it is not part of the wartime organization either. I will (again) remove it from military of Sweden later today if I don't get a reply from you. europrobe 12:44 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)

Sure, please remove it. Do you have a reference for it? Last I heard it was used in the infantry brigades, but most of those have been disbanded. Maybe you would like to add the Swedish vehicles that are actually used at the moment? Like the Pbv302. -- Jniemenmaa 13:17 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)

I don't have an online reference, but I learned this during my officer studies. I have also looked at present organization charts, and no units use it. I could add some more vehicles to the page, but adding all of them would be a lot of work. I'll see if I get some time later today. europrobe 13:30 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)

Aimo Kajander is translated with Syntax 8.0 translator.

Good idea to mention the recognized minority languages in Sweden. Are you about to write on Meänkieli? That would be worthy to mention under Finnish languages as opposed to Finnish (language). :-> -- Ruhrjung 09:59 May 11, 2003 (UTC)

I don't think I will be writing it anytime soon since I know almost nothing about meänkieli, other than reading Mikael Niemis Vittula book... :) But really, isn't it a pidgin between Finnish and Swedish? It should also be mentioned under Finno-Ugric languages i guess. -- Jniemenmaa 10:17 May 11, 2003 (UTC)

As far as I'm informed (mostly in Helsinki) it might appear as a pidgin to Finns used to have very strict rules on proper language, but I doubt it would be if compared to different (standard) varieties of larger languages, such as English, French or German. (The "East German" which was established during the DDR time is worth to consider.) Or think of the somewhat equally sized Norwegian. Bokmål as a "pidgin between Swedish and Danish" ... just imagine how the proud Norwegians would turn away in dismay. :-))) Even as a student of Swedish, I've learned how the written standard differs somewhat between 1/ Southern Sweden, 2/ Svealand and 3/ Swedish as written in Finland both with regard to grammar and lexicon. ...Not to mention the variation of prosody and pronounciation... :-((

Given that Finnish as a standardized cultural language was established after 1809, and that the population on the "wrong" side of the border was strongly disencouraged any contacts with the emerging Finnish, I find it fully understandable if they weren't much influenced by the unification tendencies. Then, of course, it's another question whether it was wise to give such a small variety (Meänkieli) of such a small language (Finnish) the boost of education and legal recognition. If the governments of Finland and Sweden had been on ...like... more ...say, "speaking terms" with eachother, one might wonder if it had ever happened.

This latter topic, (I am writing on your Talk page, hence allowed to jump from one topic to another, am I not? :) i.e. the relations between Sweden and Finland, between the populations and between the governments is actually one of the things I've occupied myself with now and then. It's obviously much worse than between for instance Austrians and Germans (ehem... "Germans from the federative republic"), and as far as I can see much more tense than the relation between Austrians and Hungarians - not that I know so very much about Austria. Actually, I've hardly been there... :-)) -- Ruhrjung 10:54 May 11, 2003 (UTC)

Hei!

You're a Finn for Christ's sake!
You're supposed to be more progressive than the Sweden-Swedes who haven't caught up with history after 1936, and still think of the "Finland-Swedes" as ethnically Swedish, a fifth column ready for the Kingdom's re-conquest... :-)))

No offence intended, but here I've changed a bunch of references to "The Finland-Swedes" which in my sincere opinion gives English speaking (and German speaking) foreigners an impression which doesn't fit with reality. ...and then I see you changing it back again... This will become a good anecdote to tell on my next trips to Helsinki. And it's most certainly good for enhancing my humbleness too!

-- Ruhrjung 11:40 May 15, 2003 (UTC) (heading for the spring-sun!)

I think you are confusing things here. Most Swedes (and some Finns i guess) do not event know the difference between Finland Swedes and Sweden Finns, they think they are the same! As the wikipedia is read by people from all over the world, who are not familiar with these terms I thought it was wise to change "Swedish speaking minority" to "Finland Swedes" so that everyone can clearly see why there can be a confusion. What finnish term would you use instead of Sumenruotsalainen? -- Jniemenmaa 11:59 May 15, 2003 (UTC)

I don't know if this is what you are trying to say or not, but to the English-speaking mind "Finns of Sweden" or "Swedish Finns" works like "Russian Jews" - people of Finnish (Jewish) connection living in Sweden (Russia). The only catch is, the term "Swedish Finns" is slightly more likely to suggest Finnish nationality, in terms of what a passport might say rather than ethnicity/self identification. But both suggest that a bit anyway - they aren't opposites that way. If you're looking for that opposite, I think you'll have to spell it out in a longer phrase. PML.

Now you are just confusing me.. :)

What exactly are Swedish Finns and Finns of Sweden? Have I accidentally used used those term? Swedish Finns doesn't even make sense to me. "Sweden Finn" is a Finn living in Sweden (but doesn't have to be of Finnish nationality).

What I tried to say was: There are two groups of people "Sweden Finns" and "Finland Swedes" who are frequently confused.

BTW, I forgot to write:

Nice to see that you expanded on the Forest Finns! I had wished to write something along those lines, but failed the expertice knowledge.

(See also Talk:Sweden Finns)

My main point is that it would be ideal if the entries were written as if they were intended for non-Finns and non-Swedes and non-Nordics, although we of course must understand that Finns and Swedes are the most concerned.

Suomenruotsalainen is no doubt the established term in Finnish. But the users of that term use it in knowledge of its context. A literal translation to English is, for sure, used now and then. The question is if it gives the appropriate impression. Finns I know have pointed this out to me. ...including the tendency in Sweden to over-interpret the Swedishness of the Finland-Swedes.

I don't think you/we should change it back again, although I'm not convinced of the advantage with linking to both Swedish (language) and Finland-Swedish.

Primarily I wanted to express my (mild) astonishment. I had rather expected kudos... ;->>> -- Ruhrjung 12:49 May 15, 2003 (UTC)

Ok, let me begin by thanking you for contributing on Sweden Finns and other articles! I was not trying to be rude or anything.

No. There were absolutely no reason to believe you were.

I'll never be astonished again over this kind of things. I know some Finland Swedish people who at first thought I was "riks-svensk", then it turned out that I spoke much better Finnish than they did. (Well, fluently versus "allmost not at all").

But anyway. If you do not think "Finland Swedish" is not a good term you should get the Finland-Swedish article changed to something else... not likely .. :) -- Jniemenmaa 16:42 May 15, 2003 (UTC)

Actually, look at the revision I did May 5th! It was, as far as I can judge it myself, an honest attempt to move the focus from a perceived "Swedish" ethnicity to an NPOV focus on langauge. If I'd known Finnish I would have signed:
kunnioittavasti
Ruhrjung 18:26 May 15, 2003 (UTC)

Jniemenmaa, if you can spare the time, would you mind having another look at the Pakkoruotsi page. It seems that Wikipedia has a (minor) problem with things related to the Swedish language in Finland. You might be the person to NPOV it. Thanks, Kosebamse 10:11 23 May 2003 (UTC)

Seconded! (see also: Talk:Pakkoruotsi) -- Ruhrjung 17:57 23 May 2003 (UTC)

Jniemenmaa, welcome to the wikiproject battles! TeunSpaans 19:54 29 May 2003 (UTC)

Muuten, (kirjoittaakseni salakielellä ;) oletko tulossa syksyllä Turkuun Finnconiin? -- Cimon Avaro on a pogo stick 09:41 12 Jun 2003 (UTC) Yeah. I noticed. The picture of the corpse of Lemminkäinen with his mother hunched over it, is my personal favorite of the Gallen-Kallela images. But of course they are all great, both as symbolistic art, and as depictions of the grandeure of nature. (too bad he never made tarot-cards) -- Cimon Avaro on a pogo stick 12:17 12 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I've no solution on the Centre/Center issue. (It might be an indicator whether singular writers are more influenced by German or French, maybe.)
See: google

In case you've created more articles on Finnish parties, maybe you would like to link to them from Politics of Finland and the List of political parties. Not that I'm particularly fond of that kind of lists, but now and then they might be of value.
-- Ruhrjung 13:00 12 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Well, I did create pages for all the parites currently in the Parliament, with links from the Politics of Finland. Didn't even know about List of political parties. I'll create redirects for the finnish party names. -- Jniemenmaa 14:17 12 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I don't know the Finlandia Hymn, so feel free to correct or clarify anything that needs to be. By the way, I have a book which lists "Sola" as the author of the lyrics of the Finlandia Hymn - I don't think this is correct (other books say it was indeed Koskenniemi), but I was just wondering if you knew who Sola was, or why his name might be given here? --Camembert

Your latest edit to Finlandia Hymn makes everything clear - thanks very much! --Camembert

No problem! It was news to me too. :) -- Jniemenmaa 18:47 12 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I've just joined in the military wikiproject, and I have put my thoughts on naming conventions up on the talk page. I have also expanded the article on naming conventions a bit.

I think that we need to thrash things out, especially over the type of formation that has the most articles at the moment, the division. The British and American divisions are disambigulated using prefixes, British and US respectively. Your articles on Finnish military formations use (Finland) as a suffix to disambigulate. There is clearly a clash here, which I think would be good to resolve. I personally prefer using prefixes to disambigulate, rather than suffixes. I think that for twon reasons. One is that using prefixes avoids having to type brackets, which slow down typing since they need the shift key. The other is that I feel that using prefixes simply flows better in the article title. It doesn't break up the flow of the article.

Please give your thoughts at the talk page of the wikiproject. David Newton 17:33 7 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Hi, I just added an article about the Battle of Ratan and Sävar fought in the finnish war. You might find it intresting.

I plan to add more on the battles in the finnish war, when I have time. :) i will also look more on the military project that you mentioned.

Kinslayer 21:07 27 Jul 2003 (UTC)

You might be interested in some current activity at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Battles --mav 21:11, 31 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Maybe time to write the article on the Moscow Peace Treaty (1940)?

I've prepared your work by linking to the article: http://www.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Special:Whatlinkshere&target=Moscow_Peace_Treaty_(1940)

And I see you've prepared the work in the Winter War article. :-)))
-- Ruhrjung 13:02, 4 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Hyvälaatuinen! -- Ruhrjung 13:44, 5 Aug 2003 (UTC)

By the way, I wonder about your feelings for the change done by 62.78.138.108 to the article on Finno-Ugric languages. I am less than enthusiastic, ...but of course I might be oversensitive against "Racially..." - and after that viewing the whole addition with wry eyes.
-- Ruhrjung 13:25, 7 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Upsala

Luuletko tulevasi Upsalaan. Jos tulet, miten tunnistan? Itseni saatat tunnistaa propellihatusta. Huom. En viitsi jättää oikeaa nimeäni tänne googlattavaksi. (oma tulemiseni on noin 65% varmaa, kunhan saan hiukan lisämaksuaikaa vuokralleni) -- Cimon Avaro on a pogo-stick 12:25, Aug 9, 2003 (UTC)

Propellihatusta. etc.

Jeah, Propeller beanie, since I don't in RL know how to operate a pogostick, much less own one. Anyways. If you do decide to travel there, maybe there is a way that we can co-operate somehow about accommodations. I have a budget tighter than a gnats rectum. I am willing to apportion fairly the costs of a room with any number of fans. Just a thought. In anycase, stay in touch. -- Cimon

enpä taida lähteä sinne upsalaan, kiitos eräälle jarjestelmän hallinoitsijan. jos huomaat, olen hiukan kietoutunut tiettyyn tapahtumaketjuun. (Neuvon, Ihan Oikeasti, elä sotkeennu) Minäkin kadun. -- Cimon Avaro on a pogo-stick 12:41, Aug 15, 2003 (UTC)

Posted by anon on my user page:

Why did you remove People-text from Finland page? I had a permission to copy it to there. And also deleting Finland Facts-page wasn't understandable.

"HEI! Kappaleita voi käyttää, kunhan lähde mainitaan. yst. terv. Arja Saarto/Työministeriö"

I reverted to the last version by Graculus. However, I'm far too busy to be involved with this dispute at the moment. 172 16:40, 26 Aug 2003 (UTC)

I think we are pretty close to a passable translation of the Press Release (?)

Two things still need to be done. Decide what else of the optional matter we include in the press release. Especially whether we put in the stuff about fundraising for the foundation.

And there is the pre-header stuff with the other-language links etc. I don't quite know whether that is intended to be included or not, what do you think? In any case I dare not move it over, since trying to move that text has "jumittanut" my machine twice already. There is something wrong with my cut and paste function, if I try to move more than a few word. Even plain text gets somewhat garbled, but that is easier to ungarble, than a list of links etc.

So I would ask, that if you think the stuff before the beginning of the article should be included, that you move it yourself. I really dare not.

I think we should have the links. I'll do it in a moment.

Of course we should still keep polishing the language further, if we can.

I feel that my finnish skills are lacking in some respects, ie bureaucracy-finnish. :)

Oh, ~~one~~ two more things. What do you think about the addition by Late? I am not sure a comparison with Finnish paper dictionaries is useful, considering the number of articles in the Finnish version of Wikipedia.

Hmm, yes. The finnish wp is quite pathetic for the moment. Lets start a talk-page on the finnish wp so we can discuss these things.

And lastly, I hope there is no "kitka" between us due to the events viz a viz Graculus' nomination. I think everybody in the process did what they thought was right, and each separately disagreed on what that was. Ruhrjung seems to have taken the matter to his heart, but I hope there are no tensions between you and me. -- Cimon Avaro on a pogo-stick 09:16, Aug 30, 2003 (UTC)

Oh, don't worry about that! Tämä koko juttu vain ärsytti minua jostain syystä enemmän kuin sen olisi pitänyt. -- Jniemenmaa 09:43, Aug 30, 2003 (UTC)

(Butting in, me too:) If there is any friction at all, then rather between me and the project as a whole. And it really is a small issue not worth the number of lines we have produced on it. --Ruhrjung 10:43, 31 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Oh, well, I'll butt in too >;-)

I think the problem is not the number of lines we produce on these matters, but the very low number of lines it might have taken to not have to produce these lines. That is if you take my meaning?

No, please, I think I have to explain further. I am personally always (perhaps excessively emotionally excitedly) excercised when people say the problem is that people are wasting their and the Wikipedias resources when they discuss matters which genuinely have to do with the way Wikipedia operates, and the disputes about genuine matters of content, procedure, or precise language.

I think if the placement of a comma is a matter worth getting into an edit war that will be visible to the whole community, it should be worth both (or all) sides writing a full dissertation either before or after the situation has passed. This is not something with an established and tested history we are trying to do here. We need to know how to get where we are going, and because we are going into uncharted territory, the best way to do that is to examine how we got through the bits of the ravine we just cleared. -- Cimon Avaro on a pogo-stick 16:39, Aug 31, 2003 (UTC)

Svarade på User Talk:Rogper // Rogper 21:20, 26 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Thanks for the note about history of tanks. I was apalled by the sketch information in Tank, and I started work without checking. I'll look at both. DJ Clayworth 20:40, 11 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Muuten oletko kuulllut?

Nyt sitten muuten homma on nytkähtänyt, ja perjantaina 11:45 (suomen aikaa) Suomenkielinen Wikipedia mitä ilmeisemmin siirtyy uuteen Phase III softaan. Olet tervetullut katsomaan kuinka me porukalla yritämme häthätää korjata linkit säälliseen kuntoon, ja rapsia muutkin konversio-skriptin jättämät valujäljet maton alle, ei osallistumispakkoa, mutta talkoissa ei tietenkään koskaan ole lisämiehet pahitteeksi. Ai niin, olemme myös perustaneet suomenkielisen postituslistan, jonne olet toki tervetullut. -- Cimon Avaro on a pogostick 14:50, Nov 26, 2003 (UTC)

I added the Katyusha back to the list of AFV's, as it is pretty much the definition of the Multiple Rocket Launch System. Would it be possible for us to debate it's belonging there on the discussion page of List of AFVs? Oberiko 19:44, 29 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Press Release

I see you contributed to the creation of the press release. Might you be willing to follow these steps, and send off the press release? -- user:zanimum

Karelia maps

My expertice is too limited, I don't want to make a fool of myself at the actual talk page, but consider for instance the maps at http://www.kolumbus.fi/rastas/ - like http://www.kolumbus.fi/rastas/karjka11.gif.
--Ruhrjung 10:03, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I think the maps look great! The new version of the Many Karelias also settles my initial query on Ladoga Karelia. The files seem kind of large though. I tried resaving Many Karelias.png and came out with a file that was only a fifth in size. -- Mic 18:20, Apr 5, 2004 (UTC)

I continued the map further north. See Many_Karelias_further_north.png. Kahkonen 14:58, 2004 Jun 21 (UTC)

Please see Image_talk:Many_Karelias.png Kahkonen 08:23, 2004 Jul 24 (UTC)

Finland's declaration of independence

It was pointed out to me that the text to the Finland's declaration of independence was availiable at the talk page to that article. I checked the Swedish text and created an article at Wikisource for it. There is also a Finnish text there. My poor language skills in Finnish prevents me from checking this, but perhaps you'd like to take a look. If it checks out, it might be an idea to post it here. (I hope I got the spelling right.) -- Mic 23:11, Apr 15, 2004 (UTC)

Nice-looking maps

The maps, like Image:Karelian Isthmus.png, of yours look amazing! What program did you use? They look really professional. --Menchi 05:37, 19 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Thanks! I used Photoshop, and I've been lurking at the Wikiproject Maps to see how the real pros do it. :) -- Jniemenmaa 05:56, 19 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Lapland

I have been doing some work with the provinces and regions of Finland lately and I wanted to try how an integration of the separate entries for province and region of Lapland would work. I chose the new disambiguation as Lapland, Finland, where I also merged the early edit history of the article back after it was lost in the haphazard move to [[Lapland (county)]] in June last year. Take a look at it and tell me what you think? -- Mic 21:15, Apr 19, 2004 (UTC)

Hi, Mic. I think your idea to combine Lapland (province) and Lapland (region) is ok. It is a similar case to Åland and there is really not enough info for two separate articles. One problem though: "Lapplands förbund" is the "Regional Council of Lapland", so the second infobox should be named "Lapin lääni/Laplands landskap" instead.

Good thing you added all that information about the "districts" and "large areas". I've been thinking about how to add information about these to the wikipedia myself. The problem is that they have very little meaning to the common finn, and will probably only confuse people. -- Jniemenmaa 06:10, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Hello :) Yes, my reasoning for merging the region into the article of the province was that there was very little additional information provided there, mainly the regional council and the municipalities. I used some concepts from Norrland County, ie the second table instead of integrating it with the main table and have two headers, which only would've been confusing.

Regarding the Regional Councils; my perception is that they are quite similar to the Swedish County Councils, with the main exception that they don't have their own constituency. They are instead composed of the municipalities, which constitute the region. Where I would believe that only the national government has the competence to regulate the boundaries of the region, not the regional council itself. If this is true I think I've managed to seperate the region as it's own entity apart from just being the "area" of the regional council.

Well, I would assume that that the "large areas" of Finland have about the same impact on the general public as the "national areas" of Sweden, which would be essentially nothing. I have been thinking whether separate articles for the districts would ever be needed, and I gather that it would be enough to maintain the groupings the "Municipalities of" articles for the regions. This is the in fact also reason why they were created, since straight listings without the districts would appear directly in the region entries. -- Mic 10:19, Apr 20, 2004 (UTC)

To confuse it even more, the "large areas" correspond to "alliances" between regional councils. The Western-Finland alliance for examle: http://www.wfa.fi/

So there is a similar construction between "large areas" and "alliances" as between regions and regional councils. What this is supposed to be good for I haven't been able to figure out yet. But anyway, the Municipalities of XXX articles look great now. I'll try to make some article for the rest of the regions in the future. -- Jniemenmaa 14:11, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I'd say that the alliances correspond to similar organisations in Sweden. These are essentially independent organisations to represent and promote "national regions" on the EU level. Interestingly enough there seems to have been some national coordination in Finland on the composition of the "regions", which does not seem evident for Sweden. For example West Sweden represents the municipalities in Halland, Västra Götaland and Värmland. Counties or County Councils are not members however. Interestingly enough there has also been an increased use of the unofficial flag for West Sweden, possibly indicating some very faint separatist or sub-national tendencies. -- Mic 09:52, Apr 22, 2004 (UTC)

The discussion on the naming of the Karelia article also made me consider some factors relating to the naming of regions and provinces in Finland. I think that there are some issues that would benefit from being addressed. -- Mic 13:58, May 16, 2004 (UTC)

There was a little mishap with the map for North Karelia, I happened to upload a coat of arms over the map and instead of reverting it I managed to delete it. I restored it and uploaded it again, but please take a look at it to see that it's ok, and feel free to restore it to the original production format. -- Mic 23:05, Apr 22, 2004 (UTC)

Please see Talk:Grand Duke of Finland. /Tuomas 23:14, 5 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

(olen entinen 81.197.10.131, reggasin, olen vielä hieman uusi tämän systeemin kanssa...)

Miksi lisäsin linkin Molotov-Ribbentrop-sopimukseen?

Koska sillä oli vaikutusta myöhempiin rajasopimuksiin Moskovassa ja Pariisissa. Ajattelin, että ne liittyisivät toisiinsa, mutta ei kai sitten.

Why I added link of Molotov-Ribbentrop pact?

Because it had effects to other border treaties in Moscow and Paris.

Not very sure, where to answer...

You asked Viena related books in Finnish (mitä minäkin yritän englantia vääntää)

There you go:
"Suomi suureksi - Viena vapaaksi" : valkoisen Suomen pyrkimykset Itä-Karjalan valtaamiseksi vuonna 1918 / Jouko Vahtola
http://kirjasto.tampere.fi:8000/Pallas?formid=docis&previd=fulls&sesid=1083831522&celi=50731&doci=238628
Nuorukaisten sota : Suomen sotaretki Aunukseen 1919 / Jouko Vahtola
http://kirjasto.tampere.fi:8000/Pallas?formid=docis&previd=fulls&sesid=1083831522&celi=50731&doci=322820

/Kahkonen 09:20, 6 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Mannerheim Line

Could you discuss the re-addition of the Mannerheim Line to Category:World War II defensive lines over at Talk:Mannerheim Line? Oberiko 12:29, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Maps

...maybe of interest to you? /Tuomas 08:34, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Science fiction#Finland

Hi Jniemenmaa!
I saw that you have written som SF-related articles. If you know much on Finnish Science Fiction I would appreciate if you wrote a few words on the page above. I hunt people who might know things about Scandinavian Science Fiction :-) Gunnar Larsson 20:27, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Map of Petsamo

I'd like to order a small modification to your map of Petsamo: Could you separate Jäniskoski area from the map, as it was ceded to Soviet Union 1947. The area is closest to Lake Inari, a small rectangular area you could achieve by continuing the border straight between Norway and SU to border running in same direction between Finland and SU. Whiskey 12:18, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)

You are heroes, both of you! /Tuomas 16:28, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Thanks, J.N., from the new map! (Well, the old border ran SW-NE direction instead of S-N, but that's nitpicking...) If you want to check some text ion issue, see http://www.finlex.fi/linkit/sops/19470009, where the text of the decree where the separation was done is readable (in Finnish, naturally. Sorry folks!). You can trust finlex: It is maintained by Finnish Department of Justice and is a database of Finnish laws and treaties. Whiskey 21:03, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Petsamo, Narvik, Malmbanan, Kiruna, Malmberget, Luleå

Since you have got some experience in the art of making png-maps, may I try to entice you to consider a map to illustrate the plans of 1940 for a Franco-British expedition force to the Arctic, that also could be useful in the context of Operation Weserübung?

I guess it would do with some modifications (Petsamo!) of the map at http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuva:Eurooppa.png

The Malmbanan railroad Narvik-Luleå, and the road to Petsamo, that the British were keen to avoid, are of course in the center of interest.

A peculiar wish of my own would be to illustrate a (typical) ice situation to illustrate the importance of Narvik, i.e. somewhat in accordance with:

Under milda vintrar finns det is i Bottenviken, på redderna utanför hamnarna i Bottenhavet och på Finska viken, i området öster om Borgå longitud. Under normala vintrar är alla Finlands sjödistrikt isbelagda. I söder går gränsen då norr om latitud 59 N.

found at http://www.fma.fi/s/verksamheter/vintersjofarten/pelisaannot_se.pdf

compare: http://www.fimr.fi/stc/palvelut/images/docs/3_max2004.GIF

found at: http://www.fimr.fi/en/palvelut/jaapalvelu/jaatalvi2003-2004.html

regards!

--Johan Magnus 15:50, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Splendid idea! No offence, but I agree with JNiemenmaa, that the map can be improved ...in due time!

I wonder if it would be good to check what it would look like, if one tried to get all of the Kola peninsula, all of Finland ...and I think that would mean all of Norway too... on the map. It's true that the important things then became less obvious (i.e. the rail way line and the Petsamo road), but for people who are less versed in Fenno-Scandinavian geography, that might make it easier to connect the map to one's memory.

An arctic circle could maybe serve a similar purpose.

Another thing that might be valuable would be such a marker of distance, you know, like a stock that is marked for 200 and 500 kilometers, or whatever would be actual on that map.

But in any case - the map is very good in principle, and relevant for not so few articles! Improvements can be made later.
--Ruhrjung 19:08, 2004 Nov 12 (UTC)

Thanks to you both for your comments! I think it would be best to do several maps instead of trying to stuff too much info on a single map. A larger overview map for the nordic theater would be quite useful.

Adding a distance marker on the maps should be simple, but adding the polar circle is a lot of work, see my attempt in the map at nordic countries. -- Jniemenmaa 11:05, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

You are right, of course! :-) --Johan Magnus 22:03, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

stress

Thank you for your effort with Meänkieli! I saw your note on wikistress. It's not without me starting to feel some early warning symptoms too. I think I'll retreat to biographic articles. /Tuomas 09:31, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

BTW, did I ever say your maps are good? Maybe I didn't.

Your maps are GREAT contributions! You may feel them to be less than perfect, but they do really improve and explain a lot! /Tuomas 09:35, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Version between Brion's map and Image:Lapland1940.png

Hello,

I would be interested in a map of Lapland with current borders. Image:Lapland1940.png has historical borders with names. Brion Vibber's map has current borders but no names. I would be interested in a map with current borders and names, for at least Narvik, Gällivare Municipality, Kiruna Municipality and Luleå Municipality. Do you have a version which would make it easier to create such a map than either version I mentioned?

Gerritholl aka Topjaklont | Talk 18:13, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Maps of the Continuation War

Hi.

I presume that Image:Continuation-War-1941.png presents the situation at the end of June, right after the start of war? In that case, it is missing some Soviet divisions: 1 Arm.Div.(1.Arm.D) in Kantalahti and 1 Inf.Div.(70.D)+1 Mt.Div.(198.Mt.D)+2 Arm.Div.(21. and 24.Arm.D) in Kannas.--Whiskey 14:23, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

At the start of hostilities, yes. If I remember correctly. I took most of the info from one of the "Jatkosodan historia" books. Too bad I don't have the specific book handy right now. At least the 1st Armoured Division was moved out of the area before it could fight. It is quite likely the reason I didn't put it in. I'll try to fix this sometime when I have time. I'll propably redo the whole map at the same time, I don't really like the look of the unit symbols. -- Jniemenmaa 15:33, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

That is true also to some other units as well. Those 21. and 24. Arm.Ds were moved to the southern side of Gulf of Finland as situation there become critical, but they were there at the time (or they were coming there) when Soviet Union decided to end phony war. --Whiskey 15:48, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)