Talk:Monte Melkonian

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I split the "Armenia" section into a several smaller ones, as it was overly long and written as an almost single block of text. Augustgrahl

Contentious Statement

A discussion on the merits of including the line about Melkonian being denounced as a terrorist would probably be more productive than the current edit war. -- Augustgrahl 21:36, 11 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think it is clear some users just to try polish Melkonian biography. He is well-known in Europe as a terrorist, and I put some referenced info. More you can find in books about the history of various terrorist groups. What we should discuss?--Dacy69 22:02, 11 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think calling someone a terrorist is appropriate and coming from a book, add a real reference. Nareklm 22:04, 11 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The statement could easily be rewritten to say that "so-and-so has labeled Melkonian a terrorist." We should not be labeling this person a terrorist but if someone or multiple someones have made public and notable accusations then we should probably mention it. --ElKevbo 22:54, 11 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just because the author of a book says "he was denouced a terrorist in Europe" that doesn't make hima a terrorist, just from one source. Nareklm and ElKevbo are right there should be another source not from an author of a book. ROOB323 23:17, 11 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think there needs to be another source if the statement is simply "So-and-so, author of ___, labeled Melkonian a terrorist" or something similar. There is a huge difference between labeling him a terrorist and reporting that someone else considers him a terrorist. I'm not even sure we could outright label someone a terrorist since the label is fundamentally subjective. --ElKevbo 23:28, 11 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That Melkonian was a member of an organization that utilized terrorism is more or less a fact, however, the statement given in the source is extremely vague, and seems to be a use of [| weasel wording]. -- Augustgrahl 00:00, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dacy you better respond you cry to other admins and users about me but you dont dare to reply, you are in the ruling of vandalism. Nareklm 02:14, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

REMAIN CIVIL. You and other users tries to bleach a well-known terrorist. He was a member of ASALA - terrorist organizations. He was imprisoned in France. Look at this [1] , [2] and in the internet a bunch of others (even if you disregard obviously Turkish and Azeri cites, still many others where Melkonian is called terrorist). It is not weasel word. It is fact. Finally - US Dept. of State Report "Patterns of Global Terrorism" [www.mipt.org/pdf/1986pogt.pdf]. I don't need any efforts to prove that he was a terrorist. We can substitute current reference with others.--Dacy69 04:06, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Where does it say he was denounced as an terrorist by Europe? NO WHERE, or no where reliable, also the second link is not reliable. Nareklm 04:12, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dacy69, please read WP:WTA. Such labellings are not allowed in Wikipedia, even if they're sourced. --Mardavich 04:17, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It is a use of weasel words, because it brings up the question of who in Europe is denouncing him. Please read the section carefully. -- Augustgrahl 05:19, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

from WP:WTA The words terrorism and terrorist may be cited where there is a verifiable and cited indication of who is calling a person or group terrorist. I have sources where he is called terrorist. And US Dept. State Report "Pattern of Global Terrorism" of 1986 mentioned him among listing of terrorist activities by Armenian organizations (page 29)--Dacy69 14:41, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The statement that he was "denounced" for being a terrorist implies that he was personally condemned for his actions. Simply being mentioned in a report on terrorism doesn't really fit the description. -- Augustgrahl 18:32, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If a person is listed among criminals, he is criminal. If a person's activity is listed among terrorist activity he is terrorist. Why we should play with words? Afterall, he is not mentioned in US State Dept. Report for charity activity. It was terrorism. And in Europe, and in US as well, he is known as a terrorist--Dacy69 02:58, 13 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Was Monte Melkonian a terrorist? There are certainly notable viewpoints that say he was; I'm not going to argue against that. However, saying that he was "denounced" (this has a different connotation than labeled or defined) as one implies that somebody whose opinions are notable for the purposes of Wikipedia singled him out to criticize his actions. One can make the statement that somebody was a terrorist without actually having an opinion on their character. -- Augustgrahl 03:09, 13 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

We can rephrase a sentence - but 'denounce' - this is exactly word used on many websites about him. So, we can put 'define', 'listed', etc. But the fact is that he was a terrorist and involved in terrorist activity during certain part of his life, at least.--Dacy69 04:57, 13 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I do think that Monte was a terrorist. He just struggled for the rehabilitation of the rights of the Armenians, he just wanted to defend his people, he just wanted to make the all-Armenian dream come true. (a STUDENT FROM Armenia, 16.02.07)

We don't report personal opinions, only what reliable sources say. Grandmaster 08:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Global terrorism report

The 1986 report doesn't say he was a terrorist. It says that he was convicted of forgery and weapon possession charges.Vartanm 23:34, 19 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In the report his activity was listed among terrorist one. Who he is then? let's not play with words. Besides I don't see a reason why we can reject Brogan and other websites where Melkonian is called 'terrorist'.

And now back - about mediation. Such disputes might be endless. I made a formal offer and wait for certain time. I don't afraid of it. I have every reason to believe that I can prove my case. You, of course, can reject mediation.--Dacy69 03:17, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Such disputes might be endless because of your continuation of vandalizing Armenian articles. It's obvious that you're trying to push your POV. Prove your case in the talk page. Vartanm 05:42, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that I proved my edit. It is indeed a section of Monte's activity in NK should be deleted because it is not referenced at all. Be careful with wird vandalization. You and other users just want to clean up terrorists. I will file arbitration request and let other people judge.--Dacy69 21:56, 22 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You didn't prove anything. Like I said before your source doesn't say he's a terrorist.He was never convicted as terrorist. Vartanm 23:17, 22 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dacy request meditation but do not revert as of no so another edit war won't start. Artaxiad 00:29, 23 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

ASALA and Melkonian

Below is my posting from ArbCom page, which lists all relevant links to State Department quotes.

I just wanted to make something clear. User Artaxiad above said "Dacy keeps on want to add that he (Monte Melkonian) was a terrorist, why is this? -- The answer, Monte Melkonian was a member and one of the main leaders of ASALA - Armenian Secret Army for Liberation of Armenia, which was considered as a terrorist organization by the U.S. State Department. Below are some links in reference. So, Mr. Melkonian, eliminated by Azerbaijani Armed Forces in Karabakh, was a terrorist without any doubts.

* [U.S. State Department Patterns of Global Terrorism: 1997]

* [U.S. Department of State Daily Press Briefing October 8, 1997]

* [US Department of State Daily Press Briefing #190, Monday, December 23, 1991]

Thanks. Atabek 17:06, 23 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Plushttp://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Monte_Melkonian&action=edit&section=3 Editing Talk:Monte Melkonian (section) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

US Dept. State Report "Pattern of Global Terrorism" of 1986

Patrick Brogan. World Conflicts, Scarecrow Press, 1999, p.624. "in November 1985 French police arrested an American Armenian terrorist in paris Monte melkonian from Fresno, California. he had been hagopian's top assistant before splitting with ASALA to form his own group. By then Armenian terrorists were regular putting bombs in shops, offices, bus stations"

Other internet pages where Melkonian identified as terrorists

well-known publishing house in the description of the book about Melkonian [3]

a bunch of other websites--Dacy69 17:36, 23 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Atabek none of your sources mention his name. All 3 are about ASALA. None prove that Monte was a terrorist.

Dacy your source is publishers review of the book "My Brothers Road" which doesn't say that he was a terrorist. Stop editing this article without discussion.Vartanm 19:47, 23 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Section Nagorno-Karabakh

That section does not cite its sources 9which should be nuetral) and information about war in Nagorno-Karabakh is not in conformity with NPOV--Dacy69 17:44, 23 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]