Talk:Zuko

Scar

His scar may heal someday, as it is said that a scar lingers until the argument between the man who caused it and the man who owns it has been resolved. In other words until Zuko has claimed the throne.

Umm...........WHO says this?--Darkling235 03:27, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

It's just speculation and theories, which are not fit for this page H2P 05:37, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

The scar on his face will never heal. If is were going to, it would have already. ~Sayasha

Not to mention that scars fade not heal because technically scar tissue is what's left over after a wound has already healed, thus making "healing a scar" an oxymoron. And, as Sayasha already said, if his scar was going to fade it would have long ago. Raceberry 10:24, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't think his scar will ever be healed. It's a part of him now.

• It depends. Personally, I think Zuko's scar could be used as somthing symbolic in the show, as an example of him healing from the wounds of the past (I wrote an entire multi-chaptered fanfiction about this theory, so I've been working on it for a while). Now scars CAN heal. I've had scars that are there for a few years, but they gradually fade and disappear as the tissue mends. The thing is, Zuko's scar is so large (and likely, more than skin deep), that it wouldn't completely heal on its own. There IS a possibility, however, that if Zuko ever joins the gaang, Katara could heal the scar completely with Waterbending (though I imagine it would likely be on accident). Mind you that's just a theory, completely unconfirmed, but it's still a possibility.24.154.137.15 03:09, 31 October 2006 (UTC)Arowen Half-Elven

• sigh* Read Raceberry's post above, he wasn't pulling the scar information out of his ass. H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 03:16, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

In fairness, though, when you have a character with pseudo-magical healing powers, who knows what might happen?--Fyre2387 ^{(talk • contribs)} 04:23, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

True, but all the "Katara healing Zuko's scar" stuff is just stuff Zutara fans use in their fan-fiction. H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 15:18, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Hey, I put a lot of stuff in my fanfiction that I don't actually think will happen (healing scar, Suki is an Earthbender, ect.). It's just for the sake of making the story interesting. Lots of people do that, actually (since you're not really big on pairings, I guess you don't read a lot of fanfiction, so...). I don't think Katara will heal Zuko's scar, but it's a possibility...besides, there ARE places in the show where real-life rules are disregarded. And, as the "Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children" creators once defined the rules for making a good anime show/movie, the only rule was this: "Who cares as long as it looks cool?". Oh, and yeah, I agree, with a character who has magical/Waterbending powers, who KNOWS what could happen. She unblocked a dude's CHI for goodness' sake!208.122.69.38 15:38, 31 October 2006 (UTC)Arowen Half-Elven

if you're thinking of it lodgically from the creater's point of view- it would kind of ruin the mystery of zuko... i think so any way. if you're thinking of it lodgically from the real life point of view- it would have healed by now if it was going to- my sister got fire burns (on xmas eve 2, not fun!) and they went away after like a week or two (or more... i forget). if it was going away, it would of by now.

• Not necessarily. I've had SMALL scars that are there for years before they totally fade (that's, of course, without some kind of treatment). I also know a girl who was severely burned by scolding water, and she STILL has the scars from that, and I belive that's been several years ago. Zuko's scar is HUGE, so there's no way it'd be healed by now, since it's only been three years...but I agree, it DOES ruin his mystery to heal it. I don't really think it'll happen, it's mostly Zutara fluff (YEA ZUTARA!!!), though it's not impossible.24.154.137.15 00:05, 2 November 2006 (UTC)Arowen Half-Elven

• In the trailer for the Book 2 Season Finale (Which I absolutely cannot wait two weeks for!), a scene is shown where Katara is holding the amulet Pakku gave her filled with water in from the Oasis in one hand and touching his scar with the other. It's possible it could be healed during the course of the series.

I will say this ONCE and only once and after that I will not and should not have to say it again on this talk page. Ahem. THERE WILL NOT BE ANY INFORMATION ABOUT FUTURE SHOWS PUT ON THIS BIOGRAPHY UNTIL IT IS CANON (which means, when it airs). ANY ADDING OF SHIPPING, FANCRUFT, AND SPECULATION WILL BE DELETED. H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 06:42, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Season Two picture

I put the picture that I originally uploaded back, my reasoning being that it's a better crop without the giant "Nick" logo on it, and whereas the other picture was very heavily shadowed and farther away, this one is clear, closer-up, you can see his scar better, and it's just an all-around better picture, IMO. Not to mention it depicts Zuko looking ornery, but determined which I think is a very good representation of his general character as opposed to the other picture where he's more or less staring forward expressionlessly. Raceberry 05:39, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Any picture of Zuko is fine with me. :-)

Hair Color

You guys are always going to find something to start an edit war over aren't you. Alright, we'll have a vote to close next Friday. Is it Brown or is it Black? The problem comes in that in Book One, it was easily black. However, since growing his hair it looks lighter. However, I'm going to blame this new light color on his constant shaving of it and/or the dust and dirt he now surrounds himself with. So I vote Black H2P 06:34, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Black for reasons above. --Crisu 13:31, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Black; ditto. Prototime 05:23, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I vote Black aswell --redsparta 05:39, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I vote black too

Black. Raceberry 11:10, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Brown...just kidding...black

No to say much, but when he was younger, his hair was Brown, even before he was banished. Now, it could be coming back to it's normal color..... Just saying. ~Sayasah

I agree with all of you... I vote Black. His hair does look brown when he is younger, but I think it is because of the constant sunlight he was in when he was younger. I mean, he lived in the Fire Nation, if he wasn't in the sun he was around some other constant source of light or fire. And besides, it's always sunny there, save for night time. When he was banished, he spent a lot of his time in his room as well, so the sun couldn't bleach his hair. Now, as in second season, he is outside a lot more, probably due to the fact that he is a traveler and doesn't have a room to hide in. The sun actually has some time to bleach his hair. + the dirt thing, that too. But in secret of the fire nation, you could tell if you looked close enough that his hair was black. Still, please people, don't go pressing your noses against the tv...you know....don't wanna be responsible for any eye-trauma...~Zutara-Princess--Don't forget th rabies! Everything tastes better with rabies!! 05:18, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

I've noticed that his hair turns black when he's near large bodies of water. His brown hair might turn black when its et or damp. - Count Mall

Zuko's hair is black. The only reason why it looks brown, is becuase he hasn't taken a bath in a really long time, so there is dirt, dust and grime on his hair. In SOFN, Zuko seems to have at least washed his hair or gotten all the grime out of it. - The Dragon's Daughter.

Another thing to consider about Zuko's hair when he's younger is that the coloring and light used is slightly different. Why? Because it denotes a flashback, just as how sounds echo very slightly in the same sequences.

I'm gonna have to say that it's dark brown. When Zuko was shown at fourteen in "The Storm", his hair was obviously brown, and it looks brown now that it's shorter. Also, Azula obviously has dark brown hair, and since they're siblings, that could be taken into consideration.24.154.137.15 03:15, 31 October 2006 (UTC)Arowen Half-Elven

The only reason his hair looked brown was because Zuko's flashbacks are always in different lighting (more brownish).Momoroxmysoxoff 21:54, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

While I would say his hair is black- you should also compare it to, like, Toph's hair, which is black.

In relation to the above, this is true. For example, MY hair is VERY dark brown, and people always think it's black. But if compared to my sister, who DOES have black hair, you can see that it's brown. The whole lighting thing, yeah, that could be accredited to the flashback animation changes (everything does seem to take on an odd hue), but that doesn't change the fact that, in current time, both Zuko and Azula have clearly brown hair. This is especially obvious if compared to Toph whose hair is easily black, as defined by the creators.24.154.137.15 00:12, 2 November 2006 (UTC)Arowen Half-Elven

I have black hair and I know, when you have little hair, you can see your skin through the hair, so it won't look dark. As it grows, it becomes thicker and darker.

I looked at the fire nation page on wikipedia and Zuko's hair is black because people in the fire nation usually have dark brown to black hair. And honestly it's almost the same thing. :)

Quick Note

Ok, not to bring this up, after the 1 month chat about it, but there is a slit "Zuko's age problem" to tend to. Not big, dont worry. Just the part, where it says that "..Zuko was about 10-years-old...". Can we really put that in? I mean, with about in there, it kinda flys, but since his age at the time is not known, can it be on there. for all we know, he was only 8-years-old. wich, doesnt pass well with the 10-years-old part. Just saying. ~Sayasha

I think it was originally put there because that's about the age he looked. Other than that, I changed it so as to not cause any more... whatever, too much crap for one night. H2P 07:54, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I put that in there for the purposes of specificity, my source being the official site where it states in Azulon's bio that he died six years ago. Raceberry 07:03, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I think Zuko was ten when his mother died/vanished/disappeared/went missing. -The Dragon's Daughter.

The Triva for Zuko... yeah, has anyone noticed it? The two Chinese kanji characters making up his name Zu meaning the ancsetral tomb/ancestors and Kou meaning to rob, pillage/ rob. In that light, his name would mean something like this: Robber of the Ancestral Tomb. Or something along those lines. Just thought I might throw it out there, I always thought Zuko would mean honorable. - The Dragon's Daughter

Has anyone noticed that both forms of his name include a character about something ancestoral?

Bending

Why isn't there a section about Zuko's bending? We have one for Aang, Katara and Toph, so why not Zuko? At least something about his fighting style or sowards. September 26 15:45 Momoroxmysoxoff

Wow... I just now noticed that there isn't one. H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 19:56, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

There still isn't one. What's up? Doesn't anyone want to do it? 202.72.187.152 16:12, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

What's stopping you? I just haven't had the time. I get on, need to revert 50 some things, then I go do my other stuff outside of Wiki. H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 18:19, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

I added one, but I don't think it's up to standards... Zygger 18:23, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

From there we can atleast edit it. As I proved below, though, there is no blue fire used in City of Walls and Secrets. H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 18:30, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Lengthy

This is getting kind of long guys. I suggest adding more pictures in the relationships section, something like Zuko fighting Jet or talking to Jin or whatever. What we need is distractors that allow you to scroll down and not see a huge body of text. I know how everyone loves an anti-hero, but this body of information is huge compared to Aang and his group. H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 06:06, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm on it. ^_^ -Redsparta 06:39, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Due to size and content I request that we put this page up for re-grading. I have no idea how to do this though. H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 19:14, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

• Sorry, this doesn't exactly relate to topic, H2P, but I don't think it's quite fair to call Zuko the "anti-hero". Yes, in season one, he was certainly introduced as a pure antogonist, but we're slowly finding out that he's not evil or bad, just bitter. The only thing (only FACTUAL thing, I should say) that really motivates me to say this is that Zuko has had almost no, if ANY, hostile encounters with the gaang this season, which kinda rules him out as being the anti-hero. He's more like...hero-in-training now.24.154.137.15 03:21, 31 October 2006 (UTC)Arowen Half-Elven

• • Try making sure you know what a term means before criticizing someone's use of it. Zuko's an anti-hero alright, you just don't know what H2P means by it. Y BCZ 20:07, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

• I believe the definition of "anti-hero" is someone who comes in conflict with the hero or has particularly anti-heroic character traits, or traits that aren't generally associated with the hero. As of season two, Zuko has had virtually no conflict with the gaang, ruling him out as someone who goes against the hero. This season, he has also been presented as a basically honorable person, not someone without a moral code. Yes, I could have taken H2P's meaning the wrong way, but with the use of that word, that's how it came across to me. Just sayin'.

And, once again, I'm REALLY not trying to start something, but I don't appreciate your insulting my intelligence. Contrary to popular belief here, I'm NOT stupid.

I am not insulting your intelligence, I am expressing frustration over your insistence on a subject that you obviously do not possess complete knowledge of. An anti-hero is not one who goes against the hero of a series-that's the villain, or antagonist. An anti-hero is a protagonist or hero of a story that possesses particularly unheroic traits-a bank robber could be the hero of his own story, for example, but he's not a very heroic person. Zuko has certainly expressed unheroic qualities throughout the series but has, of late, been cast in the role of a protagonist. Y BCZ 22:57, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

• Like I said, Zuko was introduced as an antogonist. Depending on what qualities you take to be anti-heroic, yes, Zuko could be considered the anti-hero, which is why I say that I could have taken H2P's comment the wrong way. But in MY mind, Zuko isn't the anti-hero (I'm speaking of season two, not season one, by the way), so I don't exactly consider it fair to lable him as such. Think of it this way: Have you ever played Final Fantasy VIII? The main character, Squall Leonhart, was the reluctant leader/protagonist, but that didn't make him the anti-hero, despite his obvious (if few) anti-heroic qualities. If you look up "anti-hero", you'll probably find that the anti-hero is someone who goes against the hero OR has particularly anti-heroic character traits. I've already stated that. And I'm not exactly dumb on the subject of literary terms, so don't say that I don't possess knowledge of them. Please don't think me arrogant, but as an author, I intend to major in literature and creative writing, so I DO have prior knowledge about these things...especially when the elements of fantasy and story and character construction are involoved, such as with the term "anti-hero"...But we've completely gotten off topic anyway. *shrugs* Oh well.24.154.137.15 00:22, 1 November 2006 (UTC)Arowen Half-Elven

• Okay, please just look at wiki's article on the anti-hero and explain to me how Zuko doesn't fit it. He's been a protagonist in various instances, right? Okay, so he's been the hero. Now, has he done stuff that's not heroic? Well, he's resorted to robbing and beating people up to get what he wants, so yes. And this happens in season two. Zuko has, indeed, shown that he can be a very honorable person, for instance by defending the town in "Zuko Alone" and refusing to steal from a pregnant woman. An anti-hero is not a scum-bag, okay? Let's not take the term too far. As the wiki states, the anti-hero is basically Batman: working for the greater cause through often unchivalrous ways. Now, Zuko supposedly freed Appa in "Lake Laogai", right? He's a hero for that. But why did he go there in the first place? To try to find a way to capture Aang. An anti-hero is known for achieving heroic ends through non-heroic means or intent, and Zuko has done that on various occasions. Not just in season two, either: remember that he first donned the identity of the Blue Spirit in order to save Aang from Zhao (heroic) so that he could capture him later (anti-heroic). Y BCZ 03:11, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

• Okay. I'll give ya that. I suppose it's partially my fault; I admit to always being biased in Zuko's favor, because he's my favorite character. I just dislike the term "anti-hero". To me, anti-hero, (although it CAN be applied to Zuko in the way in which you've said), though it isn't necessarily the exact meaning, is generally taken to mean something bad. I don't consider Zuko the anti-hero, because he's obviously meant to be taken as a basically honorable person. Actually, if you analyze Zuko's very animation, he has physical traits that are associated with gallantry in anime.208.122.69.38 15:39, 1 November 2006 (UTC)Arowen Half-Elven

Relationship with Jin Picture

The segment is about Zuko and his relation to Jin, but the picture doesn't show Jin's face at all. May I recommend the picture in the "Tales of Ba Sing Se" episode? It shows how Zuko feels awkward towards her and how major Jin's crush on him is. --Andrelius, 5:19 am, October 1 (UTC) (UTC means GMT 0 right?)

The blue streaks...

In the Jet section of Zuko's relationship article, I noticed that there is a sentece that reads like this: "Some believe the light streaks from the tip of his broadswords are lightning--this is not so. When he slashes his swords through the air, the streaks are simply a trail of light from the sword" This is blasphemy. A mere "trail of light" would not be able to slice the toothpick in Jet's mouth clean in half. Also note that the blue streaks had only come from Zuko's blades later on in the fight moments before the police had arrived, and how it was emphasized when first shown cutting Jet's toothpick. The streaks that were shown early in the fight were clear and white, as opposed to the clearly blue-edged lights that eventually began to emit from Zuko's broad-swords. I don't know where anyone comes off saying that these were "simply a trail of light"; the only explanation is that this is either blue flame or lightning. Don't forget that as of recently Zuko's personality hs changed from being arrogant and angered to noticeably more calm and collected as if in control of his emotions better, which is what a firebender requires to bend lightning. Unless of course there is some sort of official material that states otherwise, I suggest the thory of lightning stays a primary possibility, as the light was far too distictive to be just an after-image of some kind.

You're an idiot. Jet's weapons did the same thing, go rewatch it and stop speculating your secret fetish of Zuko. It's eye candy, not lightning, not blue fire, eye candy. H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 08:08, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

That's precisely what I did before even typing this article, and I clearly saw that only Zuko's blade's emmitted that blue light. The closest time I saw to Jet's blades making that similar light were when Zuko was slashing on the left and/or right of the screen. I based this article on observation, not fanboyism like your little reply seemed to assume. It is as they say, an assumption will make you an "ass" and the "ump" will "tion" you, and right now, you're that ass.

Quite frankly...prove it. You want to add something, the burden of proof is on you, not the other way around. And, anyway, I'd say blue fire seems more likely than lightening, since what we’ve seen of lighting requires a lot of fairly visible hand motions. Also, I'd encourage EVERYBODY (yes, you were both wrong) to cut out the name calling. And no, that somebody did it first doesn’t make it OK.--Fyre2387 ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:08, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I believe my opening statement was proof enough that there is at least more to the streaks than just special effects. Whether it was either blue flames or lightning in particular isn't what I'm getting at, just that it's more than likely one or the other; perhaps a form of foreshadowing. My goal isn't to add this thought to the actual Wiki, but just to get my point across that, as I said before, it's pretty far-fetched to think that such a disticntive blue light was just an after-effect if it could slice a solid object—as thin as that particular object may have been—in half.

I've been told to smile more and be nicer in my corrections so here: Jet creating spark. Twice. The SWORD cutting the toothpick and the blue light never getting close to it can be seen here. As you can see, it's an after image used for eye candy because the scene itself is so dark. What happens on the side view is that the light created moves like a C. but a sideview of a C is just a straight line so it looks like the streak is cutting it but in fact the streak never touches the twig in Jet's mouth. H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 23:11, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

• Actually, I've looked at the screen caps, and they're right. The tooth pick doesn't break until several seconds AFTER Zuko's sword goes by (I admit, I didn't notice when watching the show, I had to check the captures). I don't think it's lightning though. More likely, it's just blue flames, a hotter form of his usual Firebending.24.154.137.15 03:25, 31 October 2006 (UTC)Arowen Half-Elven

That still ignores the problem that Jet's sword had the same effect. This image, linked by H2P up a bit, shows that pretty clearly. I'd credit any weirdness with the toothpick's falling to the general weirdness of that scene's animation.--Fyre2387 ^{(talk • contribs)} 03:32, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

• Well, yeah, but I think the dialogue kinda implies that Zuko was Firebending, because immediately after the sword went by and the toothpick broke, Jet leapt back and said, "Ya see that? The Fire Nation's trying to silence me!", as if he'd seen Zuko bending, and assumed that the onlookers had seen as well. A different shot of the light/sword cutting the toothpick can be seen here. [1] But, again, it CAN be accredited to this scene's odd animation.24.154.137.15 01:59, 3 November 2006 (UTC)Arowen Half-Elven

• • The reason Jet said that was because Zuko reacted to Jet's comments ("Bet you wish he'd help you out with a little fire blast, huh?" and such) by coming about two inches from slicing his nose off. Note that Jet was looking for some sign, ANY sign, that Zuko was a Firebender, so he could've been referring to anything about him. It wouldn't make sense for him to point out a flash of light from the tip of Zuko's sword if his own weapons produced the same visual effect (especially considering Jet is probably far more familiar with his hook swords than a couple of swords Zuko pulled off a random Earth Kingdom soldier). The fight scene was dark, the animators needed some way to make it look flashier. So they stuck a couple of flashes of light in. Y BCZ 02:16, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Why are people still arguing this? I clearly proved the theory wrong completely with just 3 pictures. H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 04:39, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

• To H2P: I'm not arguing, I'm just saying it could go either or. The odd animation of that scene makes it hard to tell. To Y BCZ: Isn't it odd how no matter WHERE he is, Zuko ALWAYS has access to broadswords...?24.154.137.15 12:12, 3 November 2006 (UTC)Arowen Half-Elven

• • The most likely reason Zuko keeps broadswords around is because he's good with them, and as long as he's in the Earth Kingdom, he needs a way to fight without firebending. Exhibit A 16:22, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

• • • Actually, Zuko's broadswords weren't his originals-they're the ones he swiped off a random Earth Kingdom man early in Book 2. The swords he uses against Jet belong to an Earth Kingdom soldier (you can see the soldier is about to draw the swords, but Zuko just walks up behind him and snatches them out of the sheath). It's not too odd that two Earth Kingdom men out of the several hundred that Zuko and Iroh have come across happened to own twin broadswords, especially considering the location of the tea shop. A lot of their customers are probably soldiers stationed on the outer-most wall, and the Earth Kingdom's soldiers wield a very wide selection of weapons (as opposed to the Fire Nation's hordes of spearmen). Of course, this point doesn't really matter. What matters is we can't tell for sure (and several think it's doubtful) that Zuko Firebended in that scene. It's all speculation, therefore DON'T put it on the page. If Zuko says something like "Jet forced me to Firebend against him in that fight," then sure, go ahead. But as far as we know, Zuko hasn't learned blue Firebending or lightning yet. Note that the only time he's Firebended since was in Tales of Ba Sing Se, and then his flames were the normal orange. The point is this: you have no proof, stop arguing about it.

• Once again: Not arguing. I'm keeping all options open. But, agreed, until it's confirmed, keep it off the page.208.122.69.29 15:37, 6 November 2006 (UTC)Arowen Half-Elven

  The option shouldn't be kept open! I've proved it wrong above, why won't anyone look at the damn pictures I posted? Here, I'll post them again: Jet creating spark. Twice. The SWORD cutting the toothpick and the blue light never getting close to it can be seen here.

  • This is really quite pointless to argue, H2P pretty much proved that the streaks aren't any type of bending with the pictures of Jet. I'm positive that the streaks are just afterimages of the sword ex. When you swing a sword really fast an afterimage is created when light is reflected of it. That's all it is, light. -Jammity 14:36 18 Nov.

Requested Move

See Talk: Uncle Iroh#Requested move to discuss. Please do not discuss the move here, follow the link.--Fyre2387 ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:12, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Personality Section

It seems to me that the Personality section is a little... awkward? I don't know if someone wants to try integratting it better with the rest of the article, I was just passing through and noticed it left a little something to be desired grammatically, so I did my best giving it a makeover.Sean Patrick Santos 23:22, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Sokka

Are the details in the relationship between Sokka and Zuko important enough for there to be a section devoted to it? H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 04:34, 7 October 2006 (UTC)+

I agree. I doubt that Zuko even notices that Sokka even exists. Momoroxmysoxoff

• Yeah...it isn't that important...but Zuko DOES know that Sokka exists. In "The Waterbending Scroll", Zuko told Katara that he wouldn't hurt her or HER BROTHER if she told him where Aang was. Just throwin' that in there. 24.154.137.15 21:27, 31 October 2006 (UTC)Arowen Half-Elven

Too, in the episode "Crossroads of Destiny" when Aang says he'll help get Zuko and Katara back, Sokka says he isn't going to rescue Zuko at all. Then Iroh says there is good in him, and Sokka remarks tell us when it's outside him too. And Zuko knows who Sokka is because in the episodes, "The boy in the iceburg" he fights Sokka and beats him up.

Personality Section: NPOV

"At first, Zuko lashes out and turns to robbery, even to those who are kind to him. However, over time, Zuko begins to calm himself and act in a better way"

A 'better' way? $Insertformulahere$

Um...I changed something on the trivia section. Lee/Li (however you want to spell it) also means "Strength" in Chinese. Its a Chinese boy's name. I got this information off of a Chinese baby name websight. -DJZutara and Taang FOREVER 04:05, 16 October 2006 (UTC)(PS: My username is Dragon Jadefire, but I go by DJ)

Lake Laogai spoilers

Should there be spoilers for Lake Laogai {and unaired episodes in general} in this article? Although there's a spoiler warning near the beginning, people might not expect unaired episode spoilers. --NoraBlack 04:36, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Any canonical information that is available can be posted. There's hardly a difference in posting spoilers for episodes that haven't aired in one particular manner or another. Lake Laogai has aired on TurboNick instead of Nickelodeon, but there are quite a few episodes that are in the reverse situation. It's all the same to someone who has or hasn't seen it. -- Y BCZ 22:21, 29 October 2006 (UTC) (UTC)

PICTURE OF ZUKO from Lake Laogai episode: Why doesn't someone update the picture of zuko to one from the Lake Laogai episode after it airs tonight? I would, but don't know how. Besides, he looks A LOT cooler with his hair longer. Sorta gangster-ish.

Sure, lets just update his picture every new episode then! H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 06:11, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea. I mean his hair has grown a lot longer since he firt had it cut. I'd go either way, but what does everyone else think? Momoroxmysoxoff 01:25, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm hoping H2P's remark was sarcastic. If not, it's ridiculous. Pacific Coast Highway ^{{Gobble Gobble! • Happy Thanksgiving!}} 02:02, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Of course it was. Apparently people didn't see that. If we start changing his picture every time his hair grows we'll be changing it once a week. H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 02:33, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I knew that. I was just testing you. Pacific Coast Highway ^{{Gobble Gobble! • Happy Thanksgiving!}} 03:16, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, the pic from above looks like it was from "Zuko Alone," which was pretty early in the season. Now we're towards the end of the season, so isn't it time for an update? We don't have to change it every new episode. GdaMan 03:19, 6 November 2006 (UTC) GdaMan

• Well, while I agree it IS ridiculous to update pictures EVERY time an episode airs, it WOULD be more practical to post a Lake Laogai picture, taking into consideration that his hair has grown a considerable length with this episode.71.164.44.185 01:56, 10 November 2006 (UTC)Arowen Half-Elven

  Yeah but how long will it stay that way? he might cut it then we change it again. H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 05:02, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

• Would you get a new one if he did cut it? Momoroxmysoxoff 03:01, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

My personal suggestion: update the picture, but only if we have a more recent picture that is of equal or better quality than the one that's there now.--Fyre2387 ^{(talk • contribs)} 03:35, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

You know, I was just thinking that we might even get a really good pic. from lake laogai (Just the way the camera looked at him), but maybe in some of the newer episodes will be as good as this one (I like it, but I think maybe it might be time for change). Momoroxmysoxoff 20:59, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Train Aang?

I think that Zuko may be the one to train Aang in book 3. Since it is unlikely that he'll ever be able to return to the fire nation, his hatred of Azula, his slow change into a good guy, and Uncle Iroh helping him, he might decide to help Aang. What do you think?

That's nice, but this isn't a forum. You want to discuss speculation, go to a forum. We only do facts on this web site, and this page is meant for changes to the associated page. Good day sir. Y BCZ 22:37, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I know this isn't a forum and all but I just want to point out Zuko isn't even done with HIS training. Iroh is still teaching him... So even if by some random conicidience he was taught by one of them, it would probably be Iroh.

For all we know, he could be a master, but there could be tecniqes he hasn't mastered yet (blue fire and lightning). It goes back to Ozai and Zhao being masters, yet hasn't been seen bending blue fire and/or lightning. Momoroxmysoxoff 21:54, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

"Katara"

I've removed the section entirely. I don't care if you like to pretend that Katara and Zuko are meant for each other. It's still not case, and there has been no indication whatsoever. Thus, there's little point to actually have the section and exempt Toph and Sokka beyond the insane delusions of shippers. Interrobamf 10:48, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't know if you noticed or not, but there isn't a single word about any kind of romance in the section, or in the "Zuko" section of Katara's page. They have interacted enough to warrant a section on each others pages, and even if you disagree, that's the kind of thing that should be discussed first. Exhibit A 16:33, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

We both know well that the only reason those sections exist is due to "Zutara". Their interaction? They fought once over Aang, fought together with a bunch of other people against Azula (where they interacted as much Toph and Sokka did with Zuko), and talked about a necklace once. No, there needs to be far more than that. Interrobamf 22:13, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm putting it back. Reasons or no, removing that big a hunk of text with no consensus to do so doesn't fly.--Fyre2387 ^{(talk • contribs)} 00:38, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm as adamantly against shipping on wp as anyone, but that chunk of text is not shipping. His relationship to Katara is worth noting if only for their great battle at the North Pole, where both of their improved skills were pitted against each other. As well, I am sure more information will come up later to be added to it. Whether or not they have any future, speculative romantic entaglements, they do have a relationship. That said, at a glance, I suspect the section could be pruned a bit. Just do it with thought, rather than cutting the whole thing off. Erk|Talk|homepage 08:07, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Does he ever even say her name... ever? I've never heard any fire benders (besides like Jeong Jeong) say any of their names, they always say the Avatar and his friends and stuff.

Now that I think about it, he never did say her name... weird...

He still has a relationship, it's just a hate-hate relationship. The summerary also expresses "The Chase" when she wanted to help him. Also Zuko never says Zhao's name (i think...). Momoroxmysoxoff 02:53, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

He says Captain Zhao in episode 3 H2P

Are we allowed to add information for future episodes which information has been confirmed. For instance could you add that they are trapped in a cave together in the upcoming episode? Or should we wait until it airs?

We don't add anything about future episodes to characters biographies. You can add informationg given by the creators (and ONLY the creators) on the page for the future show. However, until it is canon it does not get added. H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 06:39, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Season Two

I've made some efforts to condense the synopsis of Book Two slightly and make it flow better.. what does everyone think? Wandering Man 07:46, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I think it looks better. Not like the list that was there. Momoroxmysoxoff 14:12, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

This reads so much better. I'm going to go ahead and remove the List to Prose statement. Now all we need to do is shorten it to a much more readable length and we'll be done with it. H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 19:56, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Now that the season is over and I'm feeling caught up on everything, I'm going to make an effort to do some major pruning on this section... if I don't have it done by tonight it should be ready in the next day or two. Wandering Man 21:31, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Finished updating the Book II section. It wound up as more of a trimming than a true pruning, but I got reid of a lot of needless details and tried to make the details of the important events more concise. (I think when I first copied it into Word it ran at more than 5 and a half pages, I managed to cut out about a page of that). If anyone wants to do further work on it, feel free. Wandering Man

Firbending Master

I noticed that someone has made Zuko a firebending master, even though it's just a title. When did that happen? And can we consider him a master?Boywonder18 00:32, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I took it off and just let it say "Firebender". He's probably close to mastery, but I guess we'll have to see if he's ever refered to in the show as one. Momoroxmysoxoff 01:57, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

This really needs to stop. "Master" is a title, a rank. You’re formally given that title by another Master (presumably your instructor.) Its not just "learn all these techniques and then you are a master." Think of it like a military promotion: whether or not you deserve to be a Corporal, you're still a Private until somebody promotes you. People need to stop editing this (and other) articles to claim people are masters who have never been given the title.--Fyre2387 ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:45, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Jin and Song

These two are listed under the realtionships section but are they really large enough characters to be there? They were both only there for one episdoe each. Jin I can inderstand because she was pretty much Zuko's first relationship even if she was only there for one episode. But Song? She hardly had a large enough role to be truly significant and her chances of being seen again are fairly low. I think at least Song's section should be deleted. Anyone agree? 69.141.78.155 21:24, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I've been wondering about Song for awhile. She seemed to have an effect about Zuko, as he learned about the troubles his people had inflicted upon innocents. However, he also met Lee's family during that time, and they aren't listed in the relationships section. Jin was there for only a few minutes, but the fact that they kissed does kind of play a big factor. I don't think we really need Song there anymore. Y BCZ 22:46, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

So is it agreed that we should delete Song's paragraph? Or does anyone protest to this? But if you do have a good reason why because once again, Song really isn't a huge part of Zuko's life anymore. 69.141.78.155 22:48, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Don't get too far ahead of yourself, the subject only just came up an hour ago. Wait to hear other people's opinions. Y BCZ 22:49, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I see no reason for either of them, but I forsee Jin playing a role in upcoming episodes so, for now, I say we can leave her. H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 06:29, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I personally don't think Jin or anything or anyone else from Tales of Ba Sing Se will have any impact beyond that episode, but I'd be in favor of leaving her paragraph in the relationship section in, since a date is a notable event for Zuko. I think it might be best to just limit Song to the bit that is mentioned in the Book II section, however. That part seems to cover most of what there is to say between her and Zuko. Wandering Man 06:07, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

I wasn't saying we delete just yet. Just seeing if anyone disagreed. Jin yes she might still play a major role. However Song I think is doubtful. 69.141.78.155 20:55, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

FA

Due to the fact that information on this page won't be updated for a good while, and due to the overall length and style of the article, I suggest that we clean this up just a bit more and then nominate it for FA status. In order to do this, though, we are going to need to cite many of the episodes as sources (similar to what I did to Waterbender a while back). I've cleaned a few unnecessary pictures from the page, the rest need proper citation (I don't think the Jet picture works all that well). I know we're all working real hard to nominate the main Avatar article, but if we get a chance we could easily convert this along with it. H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 16:17, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

The biggest problem is that most of the article reads as an list of episode summarys. All of our project shall decend upon this aricle and make it worthy of Featured Articleness. Cnriaczoy42 16:21, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I just finished pruning through the history section (not sure if I hit the stuff prior to book 1). The problem is that the history is the story section and a story section is nothing more than episode summaries. I think I was able to remove all the very small details. I think his relationship with Jet (atleast, in the story section) is not needed but I did't remove it yet. H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 17:18, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm new here, and would just like to say you might want to update his summary. You could mention the fact he's a tragic hero, and make it sound a bit more... interesting. That's all. 22:04, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Exactly how is he a tragic hero?--SUIT 04:26, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Scroll up the Lengthness. I don't get why people don't see that. H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 04:52, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

By definition. "Tragic hero: a literary character who makes an error of judgment or has a fatal flaw that, combined with fate and external forces, brings on a tragedy." That's a direct quote from a dictionary. 02:32, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Tragic hero? Hmmm, it seem to fit him, but what about anti-hero? Oooh! I got it! Tragic anti-hero! My cat: You made that up! Me: Hey, it seems to fit. 66.45.175.101 20:39, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Top Importance?

Why would one main character page be top importance over the others? I know this one may be the most detailed and longest, but tthis is importance. -Dylan0513 01:22, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Mai?

Should Mai still be in the character relationship. I remember others being taken out because of lack of depth and all it really mentions is Mai's apparent childhood crush on Zuko. Since Mai's appearance, there has been no interaction between the two and seeing how the season has ended, I think it's time it was taken down. -Lionheart08

Why? Now that they're both in Ba Sing Se, and (you would think) in th same palace, there should be interaction. And they did interact in "Zuko Alone" (the whole "game" insident). Momoroxmysoxoff 20:36, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Keeping it up just becase of speculation of what might happen is sort of fandom isn't? From my understanding, Relationships created because the characters had an impact on each other or there was consistent interaction throughtout the series. Aside from the flashback, there has been no interaction between the two, and even then, there wasn't enough substance to warrent a relationship. Lionheart08 20:53, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I removed her, considering that they haven't interacted since their childhood and it played no role in who Zuko becomes. People in the relationships section should have some direct meaning to the character's character. H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 17:35, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, and if Mai interacts with him in Book Three, we can always put her back on. Bagpipeturtle 17:43, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

(*cries*) Well...I should have known this would happen after what happened to Haru...Oh well. I don't see how they can't have no intersection in book three anyway...so once agian I admit defeat. Momoroxmysoxoff 22:26, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Relationships Removal

This is just a personal opinion but I think the relationships aren't really needed for the character pages. It seems since the relationship pages were created, it has only sprouted more controversy on what is considered a relationship, and what is merely fandom. Add on to that, with a future season coming, there's only going to be more increase to that particular section.

The character pages (Mainly Zuko's and Aang's) are far too long and the character relationships is the only reasonable thing to cut out. And I personally think there already enough on the pages without relationships, to give anyone enough insight on the characters. Lionheart08 20:48, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

...I disagree. The relationship between characters is one of the show's most prominent and important elements. Just think of how much Katara has affected Aang's actions, or Iroh has unfluenced Zuko. Those are very important aspects of the characters. Deleting those sections would be leaving out some essential information. Besides, I think taking out the relationship sections would cause even MORE controversy than already exists. Y BCZ 22:25, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Y, but I think we need to reword them so that instead of just showing how they've interacted, show how they influenced the other. H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 23:03, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

What I was thinking was to use something along the lines of a Character Analysis. Because when you get right down to it, only a few characters on each list played a vital role in the respective character's evolution. Despite her small role, Jin played a major part in Zuko's season 2 development while Jet didn't really. Lionheart08 21:40, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Original Research

Almost this is entire page is original research. Please read WP:OR before adding things you have written yourself. Sources are needed to back up all statements on WP. - Ocatecir 19:21, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I reverted your gutting of the article. The source is the show itself, which is well established practice. If you'd like to cite specific example of what you think are OR, fine, but don't think you're just going to wipe the article clean like that.--Fyre2387 ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:05, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

This is what I also told Ocatecir on his user talk page. There is no OR, but it is a way too detailed character synopsis.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 01:33, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I just left a message on his talkpage. Which he immediately deleted. I think it's banhammer time. Or call one of the commitees. Pacific Coast Highway ^{{talk • contribs}} 01:47, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Until I see some good faith effort to discuss the issue (for example, responding to rather than ignoring and deleting talk page comments) I'll just consider any attempt to remove that much content from the article vandalism and react accordingly. Don't really have much choice, if the other parties won't discuss anything...--Fyre2387 ^{(talk • contribs)} 02:05, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I see he gave you the backspace treatment too. Pacific Coast Highway ^{{talk • contribs}} 02:25, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Indeed. I don't really see what can be done, if every effort to discuss the issue is going to be ignored.--Fyre2387 ^{(talk • contribs)} 02:29, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Frankly your responses turned me off to trying to argue with you, especially pacific coast highway's comments about abuse (and then banhammer time and committee? please. I know you're only 16 but please conduct yourself with a little maturity). I'm not going to argue with 15 editors who are obviously fans of a subject I know nothing about and treat your adherence to rules as an attack on them. The problem with arguing with webcomic/anime/podcast editors on wikipedia is they treat wikipedia as an all-inclusive resource instead of a wikipedia. So go ahead and revert this article to a 15 page long fansite, someone else later on down the line should clean it up though. There are plenty of other pages that need to be cleaned up to comply with wikipedia's guidelines that I don't need to be arguing here. I will simply move on. - Ocatecir 02:46, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

So much for civility. And continuously ignoring/removing messages from your talkpage dosen't look good on your part either. Pacific Coast Highway ^{{talk • contribs}} 02:58, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Is this guy kidding? Didn't we just have Torchic on the main page a few weeks back? H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 06:32, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

This sorely needs to be written with WP:FAC in mind. And it really needs citations. See List of FoxTrot family members for citing from the source - the page number and book is cited. Surely it can be done for this article? Hbdragon88 09:50, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I believe that the personality section is original resrach. Sentences like While initially the series' main antagonist, over time Zuko's continued development has shown him to be more like a bitter and complex young man are advancing a particular viewpoint, an interpretation, instead of just the facts, and thus require some kind of citation from an outside source. Hbdragon88 09:56, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

The whole article is original research. Nothing is backed up by sources. I seriously hope you aren't serious about submitting this to FA or even GA with 0 references. Saying "the show is the reference itself" isn't good enough. I would fail this as a GA but i'm interested in what another editor thinks. M3tal H3ad 11:25, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

And I direct you to Padme Amidala who's featured article status is backed up mostly, almost fully, but references to the movie and the books of the Star Wars universe. I see no difference except that we don't have many outside sources like reviews and interviews that we can actually use. H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 14:12, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Alter Ego category?

should we add Zuko to the catagory of Fictional Characters with Alter Egos? Granted, there's no catagory with that name, and while he clearly doesn't have multiple personalities, like Conholio is to Beavis for example, the Blue Spirit is still an aspect of him.

[[Category:Alter egos]]

GA review

This article has a lot of flaws and I'm going to fail it. The lead should summarize the entire article and be longer than two paragraphs for an article of this size (see WP:LEAD). The article doens't have any inline citations, which is should have. The article has a "original research" tag. I won't get into whether it is justified, but a good article should have resolves these issues. Articles should not contain trivia sections. Finally, the entire article is in-universe and should have out-of-universe information, such as how was the character created in the real world (see Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(writing_about_fiction)). --Maitch 15:54, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

We don't have that information. All the information we have about the character is presented. H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 17:46, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Breath of Flame?

I was watching last nigh, and Iroh mentioned something about Zuko's Breath of Flame (?) not really sure what this is, but should it be included in the abilitis —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.80.121.174 (talk) 03:00, 19 February 2007 (UTC).

"Breathe of Fire," to be precise, and, like the name implies, it's a talent where be breathes fire. According to the director commentary for the episode it's actually a real Yoga move (Albeit without real fire), and Zuko used it to heat himself up after going through the freezing water and ice during The Siege of the North. JBK405 22:09, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Zuko's age

Zuko's age is listed as "16 (possibly 17 by book 2)" shouldn't the "possibly... " part be removed or is there reason to think this? I'm asking because it's been like that for a few days now. Cherries Jubilee 05:54, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Its actually been that way for quite a while, after a pretty major discussion on the subject (here.--Fyre2387 ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:52, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Making this a featured article discussion

Here's where we can discuss steps to making this a featured article. I'm currently in the process of adding sources to the article. I think that the season 1 and season 2's formats should match. I think we should condense what's in the season 2 section and take away the divisions to make it look like season 1. Thoughts? -Dylan0513 17:32, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I like the divisions as they are. It would be hard to knock out the data because Zuko became such a main player in season 2. We could shorten it, but it should never be as short as Season 1. H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 19:44, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Ok. you think we should keep the divisions by certain episodes though? -Dylan0513 19:47, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Well I like them the way they are, a lot of the episodes focus around one theme. Like the banishment period, the Ba Sing Se period, Alone, etc. I think what they really need is just clean up. Take away a lot of the fluff. I've done this multiple times but it always seems to come back. H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 19:53, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Shouldn't both seasons have the same format though? I think one way or the other... -Dylan0513 19:54, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I think there's a perfectly logical reason for the differences, as in Season 1 most of the episodes where he's in it's just Zuko is making another attempt to capture Aang, without it having a greater significance to the character, or his role within the show. During Season 2, however, nearly episode has some occurrence or lends to the evolution of Zuko's character, which is a big reason for a slightly different format.Wandering Man

I think the biggest thing the article actually needs is a fairly brief paragraph at the start describing the world of Avatar, it's history and settings somewhat. One of the primary reasons the article didn't make Good Article status is because it was written in an "in universe" style, and it's true. I imagine someone who has never seen an Avatar episode stumbling onto the article and saying "Firebending? What the hell is Firebending?!!" and then leaving to read something else. If no one else wants to, I can get started on a section like that for the article.Wandering Man

Well, I've given it a shot with adding that section. What does everyone think? Wandering Man

• Question: Is it ok what I've been doing with the season 2 episodes and citing the episodes the specific part is on next where it says main article and not in the text? -Dylan0513 18:26, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Nevermind, I did it by paragraph. -Dylan0513 23:46, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

• New topic, we need to shorten the article. Do Jin and Jet need spots in the relationships? -Dylan0513 23:50, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Well they were a part of book 2 and they could be removed eventually. It is unlikely they will be seen in any future episodes. XAV 05:23, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Jin made an impact on him, first thing with person... *goes to pause Yu-Gi-Oh in the other window* Jin appears to be the first person who had a kind of romantic relationship with and a person with whom he acted different to usual. She may not have been around for long but at the least she showed Zuko the kind of life he could have had if he chose to remain in Ba Sing Se as Lee. Cherries Jubilee 05:28, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I guess so. Perhaps Jet should be removed eventually he doesn't seem to have left a big impact on him. XAV 05:52, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Jin Is 1st if either. You can see no effects of their date now and she was a one shot character. In my mind those have no place in a relationships section of a main character. -Dylan0513 10:55, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

We also need to take the Zuko and Jin picture out. -Dylan0513 10:56, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I also propose to take the Katara section out. They haven't interacted enough for it to be there. -Dylan0513 21:13, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah I'm sure she's nice and all, but Jin really was a four-minute character in a considerably detached episode (notice how I didn't use "filler"). The creators have even stated that she's a one-shot and like several others, they'd like to bring her back but its unlikely. And yeah that Katara section was there long before they hand any substantial interaction. Give ya five guesses why, rhymes with skipping. Though thanks to fanservice in the finale I think its kinda too late for that now. ~Father' Wish 14 March (UTC)