Wikipedia talk:Bot policy

Bot and operator inactivity - blocks

Right now our bot policy is fairly lenient on bot inactivity, requiring 2 years inactivity for both the bot and the operator. We have a few bots on the relevant list that aren't running and may never run again because they are blocked, or their operator is blocked, or both.

I think that a longterm block placed against either the bot account or its operator should result in removal of the bot permission. I think being blocked for a minimum of 1 year is a reasonable bound, but we can paint a bikeshed if we want. Izno (talk) 09:20, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

Why not just remove the operator activity requirement for simplicity? Two years of inactivity is more straightforward and sensible than carving out an exception for blocked bots with a different time duration. For what it's worth, this was brought up previously by BU Rob13 here: Wikipedia talk:Bot policy/Archive 25#Activity requirements. --MZMcBride (talk) 09:35, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

Agreed that operator activity should not factor into bot flag status. Additionally, I think if a bot has no active tasks, there is no reason for it to have the bot flag. For example, FlagBot 2 is a one-time run that has completed, and thus does not need the flag. This will also allow us to better track bots that are acting outwith their remit. Primefac (talk) 09:40, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

See my response on BOTN on why I don't think "bot inactive for two years" alone isn't reasonable: IznoBot didn't edit in either 2019 or 2020, and so I would have needed to request a new flag with BRFA 2 in 2021. Maybe if the timeframe on "only bot activity considered" were much longer, say 5-10ish years, or as BU Rob suggested there, allow operators to opt in to keeping the flag after notification.

Those rules with those caveats would also sweep up a whole bunch, but not get the currently blocked ones. I would not however support a short timeframe without the caveat. Small improvements please. :) Izno (talk) 09:48, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

It looks like @Xaosflux has previously done a 5 year a thon without explicit policy backing, also allowing operators to opt to retain the tools. I don't know if I would have done that allowance at 5 years, but that feels reasonable. Izno (talk) 09:50, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

@Izno the rough policy support for that was that bots can be reviewed and revoked if they no longer have consensus to run - it went smoothly last time (especially since any operator that wanted to remain was allowed). — xaosflux ^Talk 10:31, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

I think that's a real stretch of the relevant policy, but I was more interested in pointing to prior art that 5 years seems to have been a number used. Izno (talk) 00:28, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

I would have needed to request a new flag with BRFA 2 in 2021 - so? I know both xaosflux and I have Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/Approved watchlisted, and if anything AWB bots take longer to activate than bot-flags (mainly because AnomieBOT gives us big bold warning notices if a bot doesn't have a flag). This is also something that should ideally be handled by BAG if/when a bot is approved (i.e. we/BAG should be cross-posting to BN, not the botop). Primefac (talk) 13:10, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

For 'crats adding the flags, my understanding has been that they watch the Approved page instead of anyone having to ping at BN. Anomie⚔ 15:26, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

Yup, there is rarely a delay there. But if it gets missed after a reasonable time the botop is welcome to ask at BN. Note: a count of these is listed in the stat box at BN as well. — xaosflux ^Talk 16:36, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

if anything AWB bots take longer to activate than bot-flags My bot is an AWB bot. So, y'know, you hit the biggest reason why. Then you're managing two places.

But besides that, it's just time consuming for everyone involved - op and crat - where I suspect that the improvement you think would come out of it (This will also allow us to better track bots that are acting outwith their remit.) isn't ultimately much of an improvement. Bots operating with no or questionable consensus are easy to identify from their operators' talk pages or BOTN if that escalates or AN(I) if there is not even an approval on file for the edits, whether or not they have a bot flag. Ultimately the biggest reason for having an inactivity policy at all is that the bot right comes with sboverride and rateunlimiter (or whatever the name is), which Anomie alludes to below.

I proposed the low hanging fruit I did because an indefinite block is an obvious consensus that the op, bot, or both, aren't welcome which is de facto indication of lack of consensus. But I'm happy, as I said above, to having a 5 year inactivity removal or a shorter removal of the operator requirement but "please be gracious to the op" removal. Maybe, for bots that are one-offs, they could instead get the flag with expiry at 5 years, so no-one even has to care a whole lot. I can go for that as well. Izno (talk) 00:26, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

Small FYI: I don't think bots come with sboverride (per Special:ListGroupRights), but I remember it has been proposed before. –Novem Linguae (talk) 00:34, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

• I'm in support of a 5-year inactivity general rule, but don't want to get too picky on this; if an operator is around and their bot is inactive and wants to keep it in reserve, I'm not worried about it at all. Also, we enforce these sporadically - which seems to work rather well - I don't want to get in to a situation where we need to handle this like inactive admins, with monthly reviews or anything like that. — xaosflux ^Talk 13:34, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

  Agreed on all points. It looks like the last sweep was 2016, it's time for another. --MZMcBride (talk) 16:10, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

• Meh. There's something to be said for removing unused rights to reduce the opportunity for a compromised account to cause problems. OTOH, I wouldn't see a problem with a bot op in good standing being able to get their bot's flag restored on request at BN without having to go through a new BRFA (but with a standard caution that they should make sure any still-approved tasks are still wanted, and should feel free to go the re-BRFA route if they want to be sure). Anomie⚔ 15:33, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

  @Anomie process-wise I think I'd rather them go to BRFA instead of BN on that -- but there is no need that BRFA needs to be onerous. — xaosflux ^Talk 15:35, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

RfC on COSMETICBOT

Please see RFC: Clarifications to WP:COSMETICBOT for fixing deprecated HTML tags. Legoktm (talk) 08:00, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

A mop for DYK-Tools-Bot?

I've been talking with @Theleekycauldron about adding a task to DYK-Tools-Bot which would require admin rights (move-protecting pages that are currently on the main page DYK section). I'm a firm believer in running with the minimum privileges required in case something goes haywire. So I'm thinking I should spin up a new DYK-Tools-Admin-Bot account and use that to run just the tasks that require admin rights.

Before I go down that path, is that a reasonable approach to take? Yeah, I know, lots of other steps in the approval process, but for now I'm just looking for a sanity check on the two accounts approach. -- RoySmith (talk) 01:21, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

Yep, TFA Protector Bot is a separate account for that reason. AnomieBOT has multiple accounts with different permission levels as well. Legoktm (talk) 03:16, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

Yes, that option is fine, you could put 2FA on it as well and use a limited access grant (which you won't use on the API, but just to lock it down more). — xaosflux ^Talk 12:11, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

Sigh. I tried to create DYKToolsAdminBot and got an error that the account name was blacklisted! ACC #330190 pending. It'll be interesting to see what the process looks like from the other side :-) -- RoySmith (talk) 17:58, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

OK, got that sorted... -- RoySmith (talk) 20:15, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

A proposal to move MASSCREATE out of this policy

See Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Alternative proposal: Move MASSCREATE out of BOTPOL. Anomie⚔ 12:19, 23 April 2023 (UTC)