Talk:Charles Baudelaire

The authors may want to mention how he went from having a mother that married a military officer, to having "guardians" and a "small inheritance". Did his mom die? At what age? This needs more development. Baudelaire is one of the most anti-female writers of all time and his formative years should have some coverage of this. Stevenmitchell 23:37, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Template:Source Cite

Any reason for the capital letters in the bibliography, or may I turn them down? They hurt readability for me. --Suitov

I appreciate the fact that someone made the effort to write an article about Charles Baudelaire. However, His place in the pantheon of French poets demands that his life and work receive more thorough treatment than what was written here. I'm thinking of rewriting this entire article, although I am not a student of Baudelaire's work.

It is possible that depressed people find a familiar atmosphere in his poetry, but I don't think Baudelaire should be presented as a model for them. Quite the opposite! Baudelaire's life is an example of how not to live. His greatness lies in his poetic imagination and the art of his poetry. It is for this Baudelaire wanted to be remembered, and it is for this we should remember him.

I am french, and I know Baudelaire's poetry by heart. This article is extremely ill-written, ridiculously so. Comments to the effect that Baudelaire's life was an example of "how not to live", or that he was "decadent" are mediocre, and beyond superficial. Baudelaire was a dandy who enjoyed the parisian life. He spoiled his inheritance through the kind of exuberant lifestyle that one would expect of a typical twenty-something with a lot of cash to spend and a penchant for art, artists, and women. He had to live the rest of his life on a tiny allowance from the estate of his step-father, and the meager proceeds of his writings. Nevertheless, his command of French is pure genius. His brilliant style should be understood as laden with sarcastic provocation, and should never be read as literal description. Saying that he was mysogynistic reveals a complete misreading of his poems; he revered women, and there are numerous poems such as "Le jet d'eau" which exhibit an incredible tenderness toward women. The whole series of "Tableaux parisiens" is a solar and joyful expression of fondness for Paris. The "spleen" aspect of his writings should be understood as a sweet melancholy, and not as a descent to hell. In many respects, he writes an inner voice which is reminiscent of Shakespeare's plaintive tone in the Sonnets, battling with the muse, or lovingly tortured by the Dark Lady. Baudelaire too had his dark lady, be it Jeanne Duval or his bottle of laudanum. When Baudelaire splatters blood and wine in a series of poems, he is liberating French poetry from the obligation of prettiness, and paving the way to surrealism. He is, in that sense closer to Jim Morrison or Lou Reed than to Bing Crosby. While he is precisely un-politically-correct, Baudelaire is a humanist and epicurian at heart. The only valid english translation of his poems was done by Kendall Lappin, who chose to respect the assonance and meter more than the lexicon - his translations read pretty much like the french text, and could help english readers understand this author who is regarded in France as one of the greatest poets ever.--User:ppanzini 06:00, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

It is doubtful that Charles Baudelaire had any interest in Buddism. --Maryevelyn 04:12, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I agree wholeheartedly. I wonder if someone could translate http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Baudelaire That would be ideal. P.Riis 23:19, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Roger Ebert mentioned (and quoted) this article. [1] -Branddobbe 06:49, Dec 18, 2004 (UTC)

I would be happy to translate from the french, although I am only an amateur francophile and baudelaire lover. How can I present a tentative edition for suggestion using wikimedia? I really don't know much about the wiki software. Dubhousing

I wonder who had the insolence of writing:

"Baudelaire is one of the most famous decadent poets, but before the 20th century, when his work underwent considerable re-evaluation, he was generally considered by many to be merely a drug addict and a very vulgar author."

Why do they not just go back to the monastery?

I'm sure they were just venting their spleen. --BadSeed 05:01, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

I will try to start translating from the French, as soon as I am ready with the Greek translation on the Greek Wikipedia.

--Hieronymus 23:52, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

The "Mulatto woman"

The "mulatto woman" referred to in the article went by the name of Jeanne Duval, and according to most sources, she was Baudelaire's lover for many years.

Most people aren't aware of this, but "mulatto" is a rather dehumanizing and racist term in English. Folks who are biracial don't appreciate being referred to by this term, as it derives from a Spanish word meaning "mule" [[2]].

Also, it renders Duval invisible within the life of her legendary partner. She had to be pretty important to Baudelarie seeing as he dedicated several poems to her ("La Chevelure," "Parfum exotique"---part of the "Black Venus" cycle of love poems). The invisibility of female paramours of famous men is a common oversight in history, but for women of color in love with white men, this oversight is even more true. --Pinko1977 04:49, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

"Drug Addict"

Should "Baudelaire is one of the most famous Decadent poets, but before the 20th century, when his work underwent considerable re-evaluation, he was generally considered by many to be merely a drug addict and a very vulgar author." be deleated? It just seems a very un scolarly passage, and contains poor grammar.

Rewrite of entire article

I quite agree that this article is pretty disgraceful. At the moment it gives the impression of having been mostly written by a not very literate teenager with an interest in death metal. I've tried to make a start by completely replacing the Influence section with something a bit more scholarly; it's not at all comprehensive but it's a start. It seems to me that the Trivia section is actually the best bit, as it conveys a pretty good idea of the kind of debased image of Baudelaire that exists in popular culture. Of course, Baudelaire was a bit of a ham, he really did dress completely in black and he really was interested in Satanism, but his importance and his genius need to be given some sort of informed recognition as well.

Anyway, when I get round to it I'll wikify the sources in the new Notes section. I can at least confirm that the publishing details and page numbers etc. are accurate, I triple-checked them. Lexo 17:29, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

"although he qualified this praise by criticizing what he regarded as ." Something missing here. Xxanthippe 09:50, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Ooops. Sorry. Fixed it. I'd had a bit about how Rimbaud criticised Baudelaire's form, but it seemed unnecessary and I cut the quote but failed to fix the lead-up to it. Lexo 17:02, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Trivia

The trivia section is out of control. Is the point really to mention everybody who's ever mentioned the subject of the article?

I was bold and removed the Trivia section in its entirety. Its main issue, aside from being a bloated list of indiscriminate information including every small mention of Baudelaire's name, is that the trivia had nothing to do with Baudelaire himself. Trivia sections are also highly discouraged in Biography articles (see WP:TRIVIA), and it was already tagged that the information should be integrated into the rest of the article, which, because it was 99% irrelevant, could not have been done. The article can now focus on writing and sourcing info about Baudelaire's life and achievements and perhaps in the future the issue of "Baudelaire in Popular Culture" can be brought up again. María (habla conmigo) 18:46, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Is there a reason why so many ordinary English nouns are hyperlinked in this article? rape, knife, sins, hypocrisy, etc. This makes for an uncomfortable read.

-- User:Z_amirkhosravi 20:25, 7 September 2007

Influence

Considering the very direct influence that Baudelaire's poetry had upon T. S. Eliot, I believe it's fair to add him to the list of writers that Baudelaire influenced. As anyone who's read any of Eliot's poetry knows, Eliot alluded quite blatantly to Baudelaire's works on numerous occasions (the last quarter or so of the first section of The Waste Land, "'The Burial of the Dead", borrows heavily from Les Fleurs du mal) and has written on the topic of Baudelaire's articulation of the modern condition (ennui, anomie) as well as on Baudelaire's particular attitude toward spirituality. SumeragiNoOnmyouji 23:01, 18 August 2007 (UTC)