Talk:Shamisen

The pronunciation is usually "shamsen" (never "sa")

Is this really the case? EDICT gives both しゃみせん and さみせん as readings. DopefishJustin (・∀・) 06:11, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)

You're absolutely right. I'm glad I wasn't logged in when I wrote that (?). "Sa" seems rare. Loads of hits on Google, but it's difficult to sort out the mess (sometimes Google returns pieces of adjacent words). The real hits might be intentional archaism; it seems not to be in current use. Some dictionaries refer "samisen" to "shamisen" or omit it entirely, as does Japanese WP. But "never" was wrong, and I apologize. Glad you caught it! Fg2 10:43, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)

(The dictionary evidence notwithstanding, have either of you ever actually heard it pronounced as "sa"? --RJCraig 08:41, 22 July 2005 (UTC))

No, at least not that I can recall. Fg2 09:06, July 22, 2005 (UTC)

Naniwa-bushi

I moved the following text from the article:

"The earliest known form of shamisen music is Naniwa-Bushi, played in the Saka area (which was then known as Naniwa). This style developed from biwa music and hence developed a strong narrative tradition known as joruri, as well as being popular as celebratory music for large public gatherings. As shamisen music evolved, it generally split into two distinct styles: narrative traditions (katarimono) and lyrical music (utaimono). Sekkyo-Bushi, an early form of Buddhist ballad drama, became a popular usage for the shamisen while jiuta was one of the most popular lyrical forms. The many different styles of shamisen music that soon developed were extremely distinct, often requiring a shamisen of a particular size, shape and design."

The Japanese Wikipedia article ja:浪花節 (なにわぶし) contradicts the above, saying that Naniwa-bushi is a Meiji-era style. It further says that the name comes from the originator, 浪花伊助 (I suppose that's Naniwa Isuke). Moreover, Naniwa is a name for Osaka, but I've never heard of it as a name for Hiroshima. Most likely, it should be Sakai, Osaka. If someone can straighten out the origins and influences, it would be beneficial for the article.

Fg2 09:39, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Why not just put the paragraph back and change "earliest known" to "an early"? Once some shamisen scholars start chiming in in future months or years, it will get fixed. No point in deleting large chunks of the article because one word is wrong.

I thought of doing that, but then I figured that Meiji is late, not early. The shamisen had been in use for centuries in kabuki etc. Not sure what the best way to work in the info would be. Fg2 21:03, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

True enough; Meiji is late. Does the article state the time period the shamisen was first adopted/developed in Japan? This information shouldn't be hard to find, then the rest would fall into place. I agree that we shouldn't allow any misinformation to be propagated in Wikipedia articles. Badagnani 21:05, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

By the way, why remove the geographical region of the tsugaru style? I think you should put that back, as not everyone knows that. Badagnani 19:42, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Oh, I see at the end of the article that it says it's from the "north of Honshu." Not very specific, but at least it's still in the article. Badagnani 19:44, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

The instrument came to Japan via Okinawa rather than directly from China, no? Meaning it arrived first in a port. I'll try and find out but Sakai in Naniwa (as in Osaka) would make more sense than Hiroshima, I think. If it came directly from China, Hiroshima might be more likely, all things considered. Another possibility is a case of one name for two genres? Look at enka. S-T. Speechley 11:58, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Deleting text

On the skin of some of the best shamisen, the position of the cat's nipples can be seen., I doubt it's the viewing of the nipples that makes them the best, describe the underbelly skin if you can source this claim. Sherurcij ^{(talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject)} 21:05, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Nipple references: http://www.itchu.com/e/e_parts_shamisen.html http://www.bornplaydie.com/japan/travel/okinawa/okinawa.htm

I think maybe it's the fact that it's a cat's skin that makes the shamisen of best quality. I think lower-quality instruments use plastic or dog skin (though maybe dog skin is normal for heavier instruments).

One of the above references appears to indicate that the position of the nipples is important.

I'm quite sure I read that in Malm as well. It's true that cat skin is used in the most expensive instruments. I think the area concerned has the finest skin, which is why that is an important titbit. That pun was completely unintentional, please forgive it. S-T. Speechley 11:53, 27 October 2007 (UTC)