Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Greater Manchester

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Parrot of Doom (talk | contribs) at 14:55, 12 August 2008 (→‎Manchester, Bolton and Bury Canal: infobox done). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Manchester, Bolton and Bury Canal

Thanks to those that helped with this article, its been reviewed and has GA status :) Parrot of Doom (talk) 22:29, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Congratulations, the article improved a lot since it's last review. Nev1 (talk) 22:34, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
PS: We got a double tonight, Mamucium just passed GA :-) Nev1 (talk) 23:15, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Brilliant! Just brilliant!.... they're great articles. :D --Jza84 |  Talk  00:42, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Congratulations - it's getting hard to keep up! Richerman (talk) 00:55, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It is. That's a pretty incredible six GAs in July now. Amazing! --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 01:59, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, only five. I jumped the gun with Royton. Only a matter of time though. :-) --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 02:22, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Very prophetic, Royton just passed! Nev1 (talk) 18:18, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Right well I might take a little breather and work on something else, but anyhow, what now is needed to progress the article further? I have added a bunch of text about the planning and funding of the canal, I also have a document from 1795 about the current status of construction. I don't entirely understand how things work from GA upwards. Parrot of Doom (talk) 17:10, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It gets tougher. ;-) --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 17:15, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Given that the article is basically sound, well-written, and well-referenced, the three big differences between GA and FA are to do with the mandatory compliance to all of the MoS, not just the main bits, the sourcing has to be 100%, and the writing has got to be top notch, or as near as dammit. Once you've recovered your energy I'd suggest you make a start by splitting the current References section into Notes and Bibliography, as in this example, make sure that page numbers are included for every book referenced, and all web sites used as sources have publisher info included and so on. Attention to detail is really important. You'll be amazed at what FA reviewers will pick up. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 19:13, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, and delink all of those dates and put them into UK format (day month year). --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 19:16, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'll do the dates, but I've inserted a bibliography section and changed just one reference - no.25, Bardsley. Have I done it correctly? What does the "Harvnb" mean in each reference, from the example in the pendle witch article? Parrot of Doom (talk) 21:36, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That's perfect. Harvnb is just the name of the template. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 22:21, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Great :) So any suggestions for sources (like the 200 year old documents I read today) that have no author information, but could be seen as 'books' or 'minutes of meetings'? Parrot of Doom (talk) 22:58, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Have you looked at the parameters for the {{citation}} template? If you have, and you're still unsure, then tell me what information you do have about those 200 year old documents and I'll make some suggestions. I'm always happy to suggest things for others to do. :-) --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 21:43, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well, just wondering how I use the Harvnb template to put references to the old documents (the list of subscribers and also list of resolutions, committee, etc) when they have no author details? Parrot of Doom (talk) 10:55, 4 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The short answer is that you wouldn't use {{Harvnb}} in that case, you'd just use the citation temlate in the same way you'd use {{cite web}}, for instance. I've changed the first two Notes as an example. BTW, the MoS doesn't allow mixing template families in a document. It has to be either all {{citation}} or all {{cite}}. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 11:28, 4 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Right well I've done a fair bit of work on it, just tidying up references and the like. Apart from one book whose research I cannot find (must have overwritten it on my laptop as I type things up in the library as I go) and therefore whose page numbers I have lost, I'm scratching around wondering what to do with it. Do you think it worth asking the copyeditors to have a look at it? Parrot of Doom (talk) 18:31, 7 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, getting a copyeditor to go through it would be a big help before it gets thrown to the wolves at FAC. Before then though, I'd suggest taking it to peer review. I think at FAC the Gallery might be a problem as well as the two lists, but who knows. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 20:08, 7 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, I've done that (pr). The gallery and those lists are left-overs from much earlier versions, perhaps I could move some images around and have shut of them. The old images though I feel are of particular interest, unfortunately I can't see me getting them released for use in the article. Parrot of Doom (talk) 20:35, 7 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Good luck with that. I'll happily help with the copyediting before you submit it at FAC once the peer review's over. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 20:59, 7 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The gallery depends on who's reviewing the article. Sometimes it gets picked up on, but not always. If there's a link to commons with all the pictures, that's considered enough. If it was me, I'd leave the gallery in unless someone at FAC actually says it should go (I did this with Warwick Castle). Good luck with FAC when you decide to go through with it. As has been said, it's a tough gig, but it benefits the article whether or not it gets promoted. Nev1 (talk) 22:38, 7 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You know, I'd have put money on you saying "Go for FAC now, what's the worst that can happen?" ;-) But I do think this article's not quite ready for the wolves yet, needs a few more eyes. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 00:04, 8 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Who wants to be predictable ;-) Can more be found information be found pertaining to the lists? I don't think lists will go down well but if they could be converted into tables it's likely no one will bat an eyelid at FAC. Failing that, could they be removed? I don't know about the committee, but if the list of subscribers was removed a few could be mentioned, something like anyone who donated £1000 or more or any blue links. Nev1 (talk) 00:22, 8 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The schematic map dominates the top half of the article, and takes up space that could, for example, be used to put pictures of features like the crane and the staircases at their 'obvious' places next to the text. Is the schematic so useful that it justifies taking up so much space? Is there any mileage in putting the 'real' map at the top and defaulting the schematic to its shrunk form just beneath it? Mr Stephen (talk) 09:38, 9 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Mr Stephen - that's how I would've personally tackled this article too. --Jza84 |  Talk  19:15, 9 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm flying blind there - the waterways wikiproject is very quiet, and there are no similar articles to look to. Theres not a great deal of consistency, I did ask if someone could create an infobox template for canals but it hasn't happened yet. Parrot of Doom (talk) 09:23, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
User:MRSC comes to mind as a good infobox builder. Also, you could approach the Wikipedia:WikiProject Infoboxes. :) --Jza84 |  Talk  11:22, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
One of the contributors at UK Waterways has written up an infobox template, which I have now inserted. There are a few bits missing from it but its much better now. I moved the schematic map down to the bottom, the trouble is that that section is now a little bit untidy, and I don't know how to prettify it. I also scrapped the gallery, and will be on the hunt for images to complete the history section. Parrot of Doom (talk) 14:55, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

List of railway stations in Greater Manchester

Hi all! We have intended to take this list to WP:FL for a while now (see previous newsletters). All that is lacking is a number of opening dates. I recently found that Brighton library has a reference-only copy of the "Butt book"—or to give it its full title, The Directory of Railway Stations: details every public and private passenger station, halt, platform and stopping place, past and present by Ray Butt—which has near-mythical status among us station and ticket enthusiasts for its comprehensiveness and accuracy. I believe it includes opening dates among its many details; if so, this could be the resource we need. I have to go to the library this week anyway, so I'll have a chance to investigate. If anybody else is going near a library and wants to search for it, these are the full details of the book:

Butt, R. V. J. (October 1995). The Directory of Railway Stations: details every public and private passenger station, halt, platform and stopping place, past and present (1st ed.). Sparkford: Patrick Stephens Ltd. ISBN 978-1-85260-508-7. OCLC 60251199. OL 11956311M.

(It even has its own WP template!) I'll keep you updated with progress. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 10:02, 3 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This has come up before. Manchester library has a copy of Brackenbury, Allan (2005). Railway passenger stations in Greater Manchester: a chronology. Cheadle: Railway and Canal Historical Society, North West Group. IIRC that has them all in. Mr Stephen (talk) 11:45, 3 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I've put all the remaining opening dates in bar one, Manchester United (MUF). Mr Stephen (talk) 22:54, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A question regarding the Oldham, Ashton and Guide Bridge Railway. I work for Oldham Council Highways and we are decommissioning a former railway underbridge by underfilling. We are looking to retain and restore one of the steel parapets. My question is would anyone know of the original railway company's colour scheme for painting of bridges and structures? Many thanks. Waltonhighschoolphoto82 (talk) 15:46, 7 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Still hope for Peterloo?

Couldn't we still get a mention on the 16th's main page via Wikipedia:Selected anniversaries? --Jza84 |  Talk  02:13, 4 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As it is we're still hanging in there for the main page anyway on the 16th - there's not a lot of support but no opposes either so far, and no-one has come up with anything with more points yet. Good idea as a plan B though. Richerman (talk) 07:40, 4 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but Peterloo has been chosen for the 16th! Nev1 (talk) 15:41, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sale, Greater Manchester

Hello team, I thought I'd bring the recent changes to the Sale article to your attention; it's changed a lot in the past week. I'm thinking of putting it forward at FAC and was hoping for some feedback here if people think the article is/could be (with a few changes) ready. Nev1 (talk) 04:02, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks to Richerman and Parrot of Doom for your valuable help in improving the article. I've decided to take a chance and have nominated the article at FAC; I think it stands a good chance but there's only one way to find out. Nev1 (talk) 18:27, 9 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Best of luck with that, just don't expect to see it on the main page any time soon :-) Richerman (talk) 18:49, 9 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, the sweet smell of nostalgia, good luck! I don't think you'll need it though, as it looks a lot better than our earlier ham-fisted attempts at FAC. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 23:36, 9 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I felt it needed redoing and I'd been putting it off because of bad memories, but whether or not it passes FAC it's a far superior article to where we left it. Nev1 (talk) 00:12, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

OneGeology portal

You may find this portal useful when it's up and running:

OneGeology is an international initiative of the geological surveys of the world and a flagship project of the 'International Year of Planet Earth'. Its aim is to create dynamic geological map data of the world available via the web. This will create a focus for accessing geological information for everyone. OneGeology will hold its official launch at the International Geological Congress (IGC) in Oslo, Norway, 6th -14th August 2008. The OneGeology Portal will be launched by Simon Winchester, and is supported by the major global geoscience bodies

See:http://www.onegeology.org/home.html Richerman (talk) 15:44, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Underground stuff

This may be of interest. In fact it will definitely be of interest, or your money back. Parrot of Doom (talk) 23:17, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oh and a bit more - "Time: 17:30 to 18:00 (30 minutes long).

When: Sunday 10th August on ITV1 Granada (3)

The Secret History of Manchester. Mark Olly presents an archaeology series in which he searches out some of the North West's most intriguing lost treasures, legendary heroes and hidden history. In this edition, he investigates Manchester's secret history and lost treasures, uncovering a bizarre collection of gruesome objects, urban myths and an amazing lost world beneath the city." Parrot of Doom (talk) 23:22, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

List of people from Manchester

I've been going through the above list and pruning it down, as many of the people in it were from Greater Manchester, Cheshire and there was even someone from Swadlincote in Derbyshire. I've changed the lead to say it is for people from the City of Manchester and put "See also: List of people from Greater Manchester" there to hopefully stop the world and his wife from being added. I know see also should be lower down but I'm trying to make it obvious what this list is for. After a couple of hours I'd got as far as the Politics section and then I gave up for now. I'm a bit unsure as to whether it should include people who studied in Manchester and where I should stop with those from the suburbs. I think places like Rusholme and Longsight should be included but not say Prestwich or Stretford. Any thoughts on whether I'm doing this right? There is a category "People from Greater Manchester" which is split into areas but people seem to be intent on putting them all into the Manchester list. I haven't bothered to move the wrong ones out to their correct places, it's taking long enough as it is so I've just deleted them. If anyone else would like to have a go doinng some more pruning they're very welcome. Richerman (talk) 00:10, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thomas Highs

I've just added the above article to the project. It's an interesting story, and one that's important to the story of the industrial revolution, but it's a terrible article. Yesterday I took out a line which read "now enter the villain of the piece in the shape of the demon barber, Richard Arkwright". Very good for a newspaper article maybe, but not an encyclopedia. There's also a large chunk of text which appears to have been copied from Cotton Times here (unless that was copied from elsewhere) that needs to be sorted out. Still I'm sure we could get it knocked into shape without too much bother. He looks like the sort of unsung hero that Malleus would warm to :) Richerman (talk) 12:57, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You're right, Thomas Highs looks right up my street. I'm sure we can do something with that. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 14:13, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I knew it - hammer of the fools and defender of the downtrodden! Perhaps your motto should be "nil carborundum illigitimae". Well alright, I know it's only pretend latin but it'll do for now. Richerman (talk) 14:27, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Cheeky threadjack, but I reckon that Francis_Egerton,_3rd_Duke_of_Bridgewater is within the scope of this project, and in a rather sorry state. Parrot of Doom (talk) 22:18, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well, if we're threadjacking ... it's in better state than Jerome Caminada. :-) --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 22:27, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Peterloo makes the front page for the 16th

Oh ye of little faith... see here. Mr Stephen (talk) 15:43, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wel, well, well. I really didn't think it would make it! --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 15:58, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well, well, well, well...done! Parrot of Doom (talk) 17:57, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Weeeeeeeell, I thought it may just get there in the end, but I was also aware it could get knocked off at any time in the tediously long process. As it had the joint lowest points on the page (but with no opposes) and would be the next to move to the bottom, I had begun to think that it may get knocked off right at the last minute. However, in the event the featured article director suddenly scheduled about six articles at once (while I wasn't looking) and the day was saved. This morning it was about five days away from the slot and then all of a sudden it's there. The good news it that there seems to be a consensus now to change the nomination process for a less divisive system, if they can ever agree on what it should be. I say "they" because I've given up arguing about it as I've been worn out by the whole business. All that for one day of glory - c'est la guerre! Richerman (talk) 23:13, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Great news guys! Well done to everyone! --Jza84 |  Talk  00:45, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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