Talk:Anti-Christian violence in Karnataka

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Kensplanet (talk | contribs) at 11:27, 3 October 2008 (→‎Merger proposal: re). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

WikiProject iconIndia: Karnataka Redirect‑class Mid‑importance
WikiProject iconThis redirect is within the scope of WikiProject India, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of India-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.IndiaWikipedia:WikiProject IndiaTemplate:WikiProject IndiaIndia articles
RedirectThis redirect does not require a rating on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
MidThis redirect has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This redirect is supported by WikiProject Karnataka.
WikiProject iconChristianity: India Redirect‑class Low‑importance
WikiProject iconThis redirect is within the scope of WikiProject Christianity, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Christianity on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChristianityWikipedia:WikiProject ChristianityTemplate:WikiProject ChristianityChristianity articles
RedirectThis redirect does not require a rating on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
LowThis redirect has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This redirect is supported by WikiProject Christianity in India (assessed as High-importance).

 :

Thought provoking question

What are the reasons why only Hindus are converting to Christianity and not vice-versa? --Googlean (talk) 06:55, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It is the same process as happened when India submitted itself to colonisation by inferior cultures earlier in its history? Everywhere else in the world, do Christians get converted? Whereto?

Jobxavier (talk) 10:55, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

RECOMMENDATION FOR DELETION

A Wikipedia article, page, template, category, redirect or image created for the sole purpose of disparaging its subject is an attack page. It must be deleted.

There is no anti-Christian violence in Karnataka. There is only anti-Conversion protest. A proselytisation group called New Light Church had been distributing literature depicting Hindu gods vulgarly for the past three years. Finally, the Hindus retaliated against it. Violence ensued.

WP is being used by certain proselytisation groups in India to tarnish the country's name and image as a democracy on the leap. This can be noted by any NPOV administrator if he goes through the various Articles on 'anti-Christian violence in India', all written or edited by the same editors. The current article is an example.

Jobxavier (talk) 23:55, 30 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As I noted earlier, it is the very same POV editors who are insisting that India's image must be tarnished, whatever the truth be. It seems that there is some very POV intent here. WP should not be a board for unpatriotic elements from any country or region.

The Article should be deleted forthwith.

Jobxavier (talk) 10:52, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Jobxavier - i agree no one should be disparaged. if you see this, i encourage you to fix it. the purpose of the article is only to document the violence.
i don't agree the violence is an "anti-conversion protest". i agree conversion is one of the causes but there are other factors too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vvarkey (talk • contribs) 11:00, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It started as a protest against New Light Church's vulgar literature against Hindu gods. Another cause was Catholic-led Congress' initiative to use religion against the new state government. However, WP is not the place for propaganda.

Jobxavier (talk) 11:08, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Jobxavier, please add any missing information you have straight into the article. As long as it is WS:RS and NPOV, it will be welcomed. --vvarkey (talk) 11:52, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

Anti-conversion violence in Karnataka → Anti-Christian violence in Karnataka. The previous move was bad faith as it was not properly discussed. As BBC, NDTV & Times of India and other well known Reliable sources reported (see article reference list), Anti-Christian violence is the proper title. Additionally, if anyone searches for both titles in any search engine, Anti-Christian violence comes with ["Anti-Christian+violence+in+India"&btnG=Google+Search&meta=] more than 10,000 hits. On the other hand, ["Anti-conversion+violence+in+India"&btnG=Search&meta=] shown zero results. What I am saying is that there are many reasons behind the violence. Not only by conversion which is merely discussed by media and not at all suitable for the title. Therefore, the current move is unwarrantable and it should be reverted to the previous title. --Googlean (talk) 06:19, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support - Per my comment above. --Googlean (talk) 06:19, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - There should be no need for any substantive reasons justifying the move back. The move was obviously going to be disputed, and was taken without discussion. Moreover, it appears to be motivated for POV reasons (blaming the victim). Gabrielthursday (talk) 06:39, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - I moved the article to "Violence Against Christians in Karnataka". I apologize, it should have been with consensus here in the discussion. As reasoned above, the title Anti-conversion violence in Karnataka does not make sense. It is not only missionaries that are targets. It is the Christian community as a whole. Please discuss any moves in this section --vvarkey (talk) 07:34, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - In addition to millions of google hits, have a look at DNA, guardian, Hindustan Times and yahoo, all speaks about Anti-Christian violence in India, which is the proper title, not any Anti-conversion. --Googlean (talk) 10:41, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Do any of these sites say anything about New Light Church? What was the provocation for the violence? Need we mention the statement of the Kerala Bishops? Why do they not have violence in Kerala though it has the largest number of Christians in india? Jobxavier (talk) 10:59, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If that was the only motive, the assailants could have warned/attacked the New Light Church only. Why did they attack innocents such as Catholic, Protestant, Jehovah Witness and other prayer groups? So the motivation was engendered from their blood itself to target all Christians, i.e called Anti-Christian violence. Also note that in Kerala, there are many numbers of churches were vandalized in September 2008. --Googlean (talk) 11:31, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The same 4 or 5 IDs always press anti-India POVs in any India matter. Are they the same person?

Jobxavier (talk) 11:19, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You may make use of WP:SSP or WP:RFCU. --Googlean (talk) 11:31, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Jobxavier, please do not move the article unilaterally. The article is now under Wikipedia:Requested moves --vvarkey (talk) 11:46, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I reverted Jobxavier's edit for the time being with new title until an admin solve the issue per consensus. --Googlean (talk) 11:54, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The POV article should be deleted. Jobxavier (talk) 17:02, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Googlean - [1][2] The Catholic Bishops do not think there was any anti-Christian violence in Kerala. Because rhere is no proselytisation there. Keralites were converted first by St Thomas. They are the first non-Jew Christians on Earth.

Jobxavier (talk) 17:09, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Merger proposal

September 2008 attacks on Christians in Mangalore article is a duplicate version of Anti-Christian violence in Karnataka and therefore should be merged to the latter. The former article has exactly the same subject and having the same scope. --Googlean (talk) 08:55, 3 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I think we should create an article 2008 Anti-Christian violence in South India? Kensplanet (talk) 10:05, 3 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Apart from the Karnataka incidents, which all issues are you thinking about? This article is solely created for Karnataka anti-x violence, and in effect, other minor issues are also reported. Therefore, I am doubtful on other minor incidents to be included under the proposed one until the issue is so widen to the whole South-India. --Googlean (talk) 10:26, 3 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
But Mangalore and Karnataka are different. Mangalore has around 15% Christian population, much higher than many cities. So, a seperate article is required so that minor incidents can be mentioned. Kensplanet (talk) 11:27, 3 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  1. ^ http://www.haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?PageID=7174
  2. ^ http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topics/printArticle.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=244991&version=1&template_id=40&parent_id=22
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Anti-Christian_violence_in_Karnataka&oldid=242724244"