Talk:Anarchism

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Talk:Anarchism/Archives - List of archives.
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Unprotection

I've requested that the article (but not the template) be unprotected.[1] Hogeye 17:36, 19 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

OK, now that editing is up again, be sure to stay civil and avoid edit wars.Voice of All^T|@|ESP 23:04, 19 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Click go the shears, comrades, click click click

As promised in Talk:Anarchism/Archive32 I'm pruning back the sections. The entire article is too long. Everyone wants their own tendency full featured and explored. This is not the purpose of a head page. Regardless of the composition and selection of sections, all sections must be much smaller. Expect other sections to receive similar treatment to what Individualism, Anarchism at Work and Anarchosyndicalism received. Fifelfoo 01:05, 20 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Right on; I had the same idea, as you can see. I think you already had a shorter version of Individualist Anarchism. I looked for your shorter version in Archives but couldn't find it, so I'll leave that to you. ... Good, you've already done it. And anarcho-syndicalism, too! Hogeye 01:10, 20 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Photos

What photos should be included? IMO we need photos for Proudhon and Rothbard. Both are more noteworthy than Hakim Bey. Hogeye 03:28, 20 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I wouldn't mind Warren being there instead of Tucker. Warren is historically important, as he started the whole native American movement. It depends on what kind of presentation you want to have. RJII 03:34, 20 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Concurr on Bey. A Goldman / Berkman group shot would be good. A CNT-FAI group should would be excellent (one of the CNT-FAI trucks full of militia from 36/7 would be great). Less dead white men, more group shots. 19th century line drawings should be available too. Fifelfoo 04:35, 20 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

individualist anarchism

The labor-value individualism is the most signficant, but that is not the only kind of individualist anarchism. I don't like that Stirner is not included in the individualist anarchism section. Proudhon probably belongs there as well. I'll play around with it. RJII 03:42, 20 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sectarianism

Social anarchism's opposition to anarcho-capitalism isn't sectarian. Opposition based on fundamental differences is not sectarian: they lack a shared basis for agreement. Fifelfoo 04:35, 20 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sectarianism in no way implies that there are no fundamental differences. Besides, there are fundamental similarities, too: opposition to the State. Hogeye 04:47, 20 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Anarchism

I'm happy to see the Anarchism article back open for business. Ya'll can always use me for reference. I'm an old version of the Anarchism article. :) Look at me: Anarchism 04:46, 20 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bullet list for Issues

I've pared down each issue to one paragraph. My intention is to make a bullet list like I did for Contemporary (now Other branches and offshoots), making the TOC smaller. Any objection to that? Hogeye 04:50, 20 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Historical vs Schools structure

Either way is acceptable to me, but if we are going back to a Schools structure with anarcho-capitalism under individualist anarchism, then it's only logical to be consistent and put 2.3 The International thru 2.8 The fight against fascism under collectivist anarchism. Otherwise we should go back to having a Contemporary section. Hogeye 05:28, 20 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A Contemporary section seems crazy to me. The original types of anarchism are still contemporary --plenty of anarcho-commmunist groups around, for example. We would have to repeat the sections twice ..once above the line and once below. It can still have an historical narrative without such a section. RJII 05:31, 20 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see that the schools in History would need to be repeated, since they were already covered. I do see your logic. What if "Contemporary" were changed to "Newer Schools," "Recent Conceptions of Anarchism" or some such? I think you're opening up a whole can of worms by significantly changing the structure of the article, and wrecking the historical order, without consensus among the other editors. And that's from me, who as you know is anything but shy about making changes! I fear you're pretty much guaranteeing a new edit war. Think about it. Hogeye 05:50, 20 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

When is there not an edit war in this article? No matter what one does there is an edit war. Anyway, what is the cutoff time period for a "newer school." And, would anarcho-capitalism be there? I wouldn't agree that that's a "newer school." I'm not sure of the point of such a dilineation. RJII 05:57, 20 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Post WWII? I would say that, even though there were earlier isolated individuals like Molinari and Herbert, that the anarcho-capitalist school started with Rothbard's writings. Hogeye 06:06, 20 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fine if you have some kind of time frame in mind. But isn't that going to cause edit warring too? I thought most of the anti-AC people wanted anarcho-capitalism under the individualist anarchism section. RJII 06:09, 20 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

But, I would say it's more historical the other way. Anarcho-capitalism developed in parallel with labor-value individualist anarchism. It's not like it all of a sudden spontaneously arose from nothing. RJII 06:16, 20 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, cool - you convinced me. Actually, the article is looking pretty good now. Hogeye 06:20, 20 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Max Stirner - Egoist or Anarchist?

Frankly, I don't consider Stirner to be an anarchist, strictly speaking. He's kind of like Godwin - a very influential precursor. Two points:

Stirner did not consider himself an anarchist. He considered himself an egoist.
Stirner offered no anarchist theory. To him, the State was just one mental "spook" example out of many.

I suggest we put Stirner in the Precursor/Origins section. Hogeye 06:07, 20 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

But there's plenty of sources that say he is an individualist anarchist. Also, how about the European Stirnerite individualist anarchists? That's individualist anarchism too --it's just not the American form of individualist anarchism. RJII 06:11, 20 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I suspect we have an American individualist section due to the much more social nature of non-US individualisms. See Japan where Egoism and Syndicalism were considered compatible by leaders of the day (Bowen Raddeker, Hecate, 2005). Australian individualism was much more social than US individualism, it was effectively a form of social anarchism which focused its activist efforts on rationalism, humanism and militant atheism. My deeper suspicion is that these currently lie within US anarchism too, and we're seeing a retconning of US individualism into Rothbard's catagories: a solipsistic error.Fifelfoo 06:18, 20 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]