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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by InternetArchiveBot (talk | contribs) at 16:53, 30 September 2017 (Notification of altered sources needing review #IABot (v1.5.4)). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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The "translation" about "pneumatomachi"

The edit I had done and BoBoMisiu has reverted was a trial to do a real translation of the latin sentence. The current version is no translation, but a nonsense. Yes, one can argue about who were the "pneumatomachi" named, but they surely were not those. But that is not the main problem; cut off from the Symbol of the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son simply means something quite different than Spiritus sancti ex Filio processionem ex symbolo absciderunt, and sive is not and, but or. --Mmh (talk) 20:44, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Mmh: I agree with you, the translation is bad. I'm guessing I added the {{Whose translation}}. I translate it as "just as the Pneumatomachi and theomachi, cut [from] the Creed [the] procession [of the] holy spirit from [the] son". The problem is that this is a controversial subject – e.g. I think pneumatomachi does mean the pneumatomachi heretics, but I cannon substantiate that. Why do you prefer not to use the terms pneumatomachi and theomachi? –BoBoMisiu (talk) 01:10, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I fully agree to use the terms pneumatomachi and theomachi (in these consistent forms, not once -chi and once -chists), but—if only possible—without the link to that (already long time non-existent) sect. My main objection were not the terms pneumatomachi and theomachi, but the structure and meaning of the "translated" sentence in general. --Mmh (talk) 21:27, 11 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Mmh: the sects were extinct but the heresies are referenced. How about if both terms are changed to -machi suffix and change the ... ex symbolo absciderunt phrase while leaving the {{Whose translation}} tag until some future editor finds a reliable translation to cite. –BoBoMisiu (talk) 22:34, 11 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Ok. --Mmh (talk) 22:36, 11 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Mmh: you see my translation, change it to a compromise translation if you think it would more descriptive. –BoBoMisiu (talk) 23:01, 11 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@BoBoMisiu: What about: "as pneumatomachi and theomachi, they have cut from the Creed the procession of the holy Spirit from the Son"? It would be a little more exact, methinks. --Mmh (talk) 23:11, 11 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Mmh: I agree, its better. –BoBoMisiu (talk) 23:53, 11 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@BoBoMisiu: Ok, thanks.  Done --Mmh (talk) 10:07, 12 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Parenthetical note

Hello:

The following passage from the section on the Procession of the Holy Spirit appears in parentheses, and is unclear, and in part ungrammatical. Can anyone sort it out please?

"(But this is no documentary evidence of this hypothesis. The earliest manuscript of the Symbol is the 9th century. Prior to that, there is not the symbol itself, none of the Christian writers, or even quotes from it.)"

~~vancouveriensis —Preceding undated comment added 00:20, 04 October 2016 (UTC)

@Vancouveriensis: that was added a few years ago. I edited the grammer. –BoBoMisiu (talk) 21:33, 5 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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"double procession"

The lead says "the double procession of the Holy Spirit." Is this a neutral formulation? Shouldn't it be "the procession of the Holy Spirit as double," or something like that? Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 05:00, 22 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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