Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics and User talk:WesleyDodds: Difference between pages
(Difference between pages)
Content deleted Content added
→Basawon Singh (Sinha): new section |
→Distraction: sly |
||
| Line 1: | Line 1: | ||
[[Image:Australia zoo wombat 2.jpg|thumb|300px|I don't need to explain.]] |
|||
<div style="float:center; text-align:center">'''This page is a notice board for things particularly relevant to Wikipedians working on articles on India.'''<br />'''Do you need the Indic name(s) of something or somebody? Post a [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_India/Translation#Indic_name_needed|request for it]].'''<br />[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Noticeboard_for_India-related_topics&action=edit§ion=new Click here to add a new section]</div> |
|||
<!--Template:Archivebox begins--> |
|||
{| align="right" |
|||
{| class="infobox" width="315px" |
|||
|- |
|- |
||
! align="center" | [[Image:Vista-3floppy mount.png|50px|Archive]]<br />[[Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page|Archives]] |
|||
|{{Shortcut|WT:IN|WT:INB}} |
|||
---- |
|||
|- |
|- |
||
| |
|||
|{{AutoArchivingNotice|age=10|dounreplied=yes|bot=MiszaBot II|small=yes}}{{User:MiszaBot/config |
|||
# [[User talk:WesleyDodds/Archive 1|December 2005 — June 2006]] |
|||
|maxarchivesize = 50K |
|||
# [[User talk:WesleyDodds/Archive 2|July 2006 — December 2006]] |
|||
|counter = 39 |
|||
# [[User talk:WesleyDodds/Archive 3|January 2007 — April 2007]] |
|||
|algo = old(10d) |
|||
# [[User talk:WesleyDodds/Archive 4|May 2007 — June 2007]] |
|||
|archive = Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics/Archive %(counter)d |
|||
# [[User talk:WesleyDodds/Archive 5|July 2007 — August 2007]] |
|||
}} |
|||
# [[User talk:WesleyDodds/Archive 6|September 2007 — October 2007]] |
|||
|- |
|||
# [[User talk:WesleyDodds/Archive 7|November 2007 — December 2007]] |
|||
|{{archive box|auto=yes}} |
|||
# [[User talk:WesleyDodds/Archive 8|January 2008 — February 2008]] |
|||
|- |
|||
# [[User talk:WesleyDodds/Archive 9|9]] |
|||
|{{WP India|class=NA|small=yes}} |
|||
# [[User talk:WesleyDodds/Archive 10|10]] |
|||
|} |
|||
# [[User talk:WesleyDodds/Archive 11|11]] |
|||
|}<!--Template:Archivebox ends--> |
|||
== |
== Watchmen == |
||
Last time I read through ''W'' properly, I would absolutely say that Veidt's bullet-catching was shown as a superpower. Having built him up as little more than a hyper-intelligent clever-dick, he's suddenly revealed to not only be impossibly fast, but can catch a bullet - and not to one side, but in front of him. It's a surprise reveal and subversion of what the reader is expecting - Manhattan has been, as noted, the only visible "super," the others just "heroes," and suddely Veidt steps forward. |
|||
[[Kargil War]] has been nominated for a [[Wikipedia:Featured_article_review|featured article review]]. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to [[Wikipedia:What is a featured article?|featured quality]]. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are [[Wikipedia:Featured_article_review|here]]. Reviewers' concerns are [[Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/{{#if:|{{{2}}}|Kargil War}}|here]]. |
|||
As noted above, Wylie's ''Gladiator'' gives a subtle prod towards a possible origin for Veidt, reminding the reader that his Batman-esque origin need not be the truth (and after all, Nite Owl could be said to be the Batman-stand-in). Hence the stress of "obvious" and "apparent" ''not'' of "only." |
|||
== WP:Indian Roads and Transport == |
|||
The link to registration acts (and I mildly agree that it's an odd idea, but it's also quite a good one, bringing them together like that) is a simple stand-in. Yes, a reader should find the salient points in the ''W'' article, so that means that the Keane Act should have a section/paragraph/deliberate mention. Until then, I linked it - considering the length, it seemed less controversial than writing about the fictional act, but if that's what's preferable. |
|||
In lines of [[Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. Roads]] , I propose to start '''WP:Indian Roads and Transport''', a workgroup of WP:INDIA. Thoughts ? Any one interested ? <br> |
|||
This will be a common workgroup for Indian roads, highways, transport, railways , transportation in India etc -- [[User:Tinucherian|'''<em style="font-family:Kristen ITC;color:#ff0000"> Tinu</em>''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''<em style="font-family:Kristen ITC;color:#ff0000">Cherian </em>''']] - 07:00, 29 September 2008 (UTC) |
|||
I'm still not convinced that the alien invasion is required, and certainly not for 'context' - he has a plan, he puts it into effect. It doesn't need to be described - the reader who wants to know the plan reads the book! ;o) There are dozens of instances where someone might want more in-depth information about the plot (hence the bloated description in most articles), but that's frowned on. (Why did he go to Mars? What did Laurie learn? Why was the Comedian killed? Why did Rorschach investigate? Who tried to kill Veidt?, etc., etc.) Plus, any cases where something doesn't ''need'' to be revealed (and this doesn't) allows a new reader to still be shocked/surprised, etc. Also, that is a succinct summation - for someone who's read it. Otherwise it's not difficult to see someone ''more'' bemused about HOW that would get the US and USSR to stop fighting - something like "Veidt has a plan to bring peace." is much more succinct and simple. |
|||
:Definitely a need, especially since that roads infobox sucks because it is sooo US-centric. I also propose splitting them up. Since I've been rating articles recently, I propose some more workgroups: |
|||
I haven't looked at the most recent revisions as yet (I've been ill), but I will shortly, and no doubt comment/complain/congratulate..! I think quotes should take precedence in almost all cases over concise summations, bowever, simply because there can then be no accusation of misrepresentation; it's the best kind of primary-secondary source merging; it's interesting to read precisely rather than roughly what was written; it breaks up the page, etc. |
|||
# Transport (buses, railways (root level), autos etc) |
|||
# Roads (covers all roads, lanes, highways -- separate infobox needed) |
|||
# Railways (Indian railways, local suburban railways) |
|||
# Media |
|||
# Law (cases, laws, courts etc.) |
|||
# Government (this will be on government departments and functioning as opposed to politics) |
|||
# Companies (deals with organizations) |
|||
# finance (deals with financial aspects: budget, commerce, economy, banking etc.) |
|||
# education |
|||
# military |
|||
Let me know if there's anything that needs sourcing from the Graphitti book, or if there's anything else I can try and hunt out. [[User:Ntnon|ntnon]] ([[User talk:Ntnon|talk]]) 16:26, 4 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
Regards, [[user:Nichalp|<font color="#0082B8">=Nichalp</font>]] [[User Talk:Nichalp|<font color="#0082B8">«Talk»=</font>]] 16:07, 29 September 2008 (UTC) |
|||
:We can't say Ozymandias' bullet-catching ability is a superpower unless another source says so, and the sources I've read so far single out Dr. Manhattan as the sole super-powered being. He's the game changer whose abilities are the catalyst formost of the develeopments in the ''Watchmen'' milieu. Yes, mentioning that Veidt's plan is to fake an alien invasion is important for context; oddly enough, most of the other things you mentioned ("Why did he go to Mars? What did Laurie learn? Why was the Comedian killed? Why did Rorschach investigate? Who tried to kill Veidt?, etc., etc.") are already mentioned in the plot summary. Saying "Veidt has a plan to bring peace" is too vague when the next paragraph mentions all this destruction with no context. It's just bad writing to exclude it. I'm not one for long plot synopsis, so I wouldn't be arguing for this detail's inclusion if I didn't think it was absolutely essential from a reading comprehension point of view. [[User:WesleyDodds|WesleyDodds]] ([[User talk:WesleyDodds#top|talk]]) 22:58, 4 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
::Yes, I'm now looking for that quote (bullet-catching as superpower), but fruitlessly thus far..! Similarly, I saw you've finally weeded out the (bizarre) citation to Mr David's forum - for re-sourcing, I know I've seen recently a quote about this, but I don't whether there's specific mention of the badges, or if its just a strong implication. Would that matter? I think I remember that it ''was'' the badges/buttons, but it may be tough to source that - even though it's a pretty vital point, and must stay somehow. |
|||
::Good idea. I like the idea of breaking roads away from transport in general. That way, other important roads like Janpath, Rajpath, Willingdon Crescent, Anna Salai etc, which are sort of transport independent since they are historic, will all come under the project. We could, like the US version, break roads into national, state highways, local roads, and historic roads (down the, er, road, of course). --[[User:RegentsPark|Regents Park]] <small>([[User talk:RegentsPark|sniff out my socks]])</small> 16:19, 29 September 2008 (UTC) |
|||
::Likewise, you're probably not wrong to weed out my wordy tangent on TPBs - however, that (currently) leaves it with Moore saying "I like this deal." That's not accurate - it's "I like this deal ''because there's no precedence for things to stay in print for the next twenty years''," since there were no other (DC) TPBs before ''Dark Knight Returns'' and the Miller/Chaykin/Moore 'adult/intelligent' comics series was perceived to have started. |
|||
::I assume "deconstruction" will return when someone can dig up some sources on that front..? |
|||
::Also, what is the criteria for how cited allusory-pictures must be? Clearly the shadow of Rorschach walking through the snow, the (cover image) of Veidt's window through the snow, and the fade-to-white destruction-echo of human forms are all in the shape of the blood spatter. The symmetary/assonance of those images ought to be mentioned, even if the radar screen cover isn't (and I think it should - although the ''TCJ'' cover should get the point across, even if the point is not now covered in the text). |
|||
::The Doomsday clock needs to be re-incorporated in some form - it's an integral part of the covers, and is echoed by the blood-spatter. Similarly, Veidt's plan echoing Reagan's speech is ''very'' notable. Plus Osterman-as-watchmaker and the Einstein quote should probably be worked in somewhere. |
|||
::The Mayfair Games books absolutely need to be mentioned - the cross-over into another medium (RPGs) would be notable enough were it not also another element of the over-marketing of ''Watchmen''. One of - I think ''the'' - first time there was such a marketing push. Plus, the Mayfair 'Heroes' books were [http://www.pen-paper.net/rpgdb.php?op=showline&gamelineid=235 all, I understand, DC<ins>U</ins>-proper] - except the ''Watchmen'' one(s). That's enhanced notability! ;o) [[User:Ntnon|ntnon]] ([[User talk:Ntnon|talk]]) 23:57, 4 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
:::Yes, you might as well attack it in earnest. I might potter about, but I'll take it elsewhere and then see what results from you rewrite and offer opinions then. (Or do you want/mind comments ''as'' you work...?) [[User:Ntnon|ntnon]] ([[User talk:Ntnon|talk]]) 17:54, 5 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
I like the sound of the proposal but why not just WP:Indian Transport to begin with? Once this grows then it would be sensible to create further task forces such as roads or railways[[User:Blofeld of SPECTRE| <span style="border:1px solid blue;padding:1px;"> <font style="color:#fef;background:black;">'''''The Bald One'''''</font>]]</span> <sup>[[User talk:Blofeld of SPECTRE| <font size="-4"><font color="Black">White cat</font></font color> ]]</sup> 16:32, 29 September 2008 (UTC) |
|||
:I don't have a problem with merging roads and transport, but railways definitely needs to be fleshed out. The scope of railways covers ~8,000 [[List of railway stations in India|railways stations alone]]. In addition, I am interested in using [[Wikipedia:Route diagram template]] for key routes. It's worth an investigation how to apply it. [[user:Nichalp|<font color="#0082B8">=Nichalp</font>]] [[User Talk:Nichalp|<font color="#0082B8">«Talk»=</font>]] 17:17, 29 September 2008 (UTC) |
|||
Given the size of India even a project on Indian railways is massive one in scope so I'm all for it, providing there are enough editors to sustain it in the long term. Good luck with that [[User:Blofeld of SPECTRE| <span style="border:1px solid blue;padding:1px;"> <font style="color:#fef;background:black;">'''''The Bald One'''''</font>]]</span> <sup>[[User talk:Blofeld of SPECTRE| <font size="-4"><font color="Black">White cat</font></font color> ]]</sup> 19:17, 29 September 2008 (UTC) |
|||
::I like the proposal of roads and transport (and railways) being a separate taskforce - I don't think the remainder in Nichalp's list necessarily belongs in that category/workgroup. My view anyway. [[User:Ncmvocalist|Ncmvocalist]] ([[User talk:Ncmvocalist|talk]]) 00:42, 30 September 2008 (UTC) |
|||
::: Unlike the state workgroups, spliting of other areas will have a serious problem,which is finding enough people of sustaining it. Even for the new state specific workgroups which we started recently, we havent been able to find enough active editors to work on them yet inspite of the huge popularity of WP in India.Think of this , I agree Roads and Railways are bigger topics by itself. How many articles do you think will come under [[:Category:Transport in India|Transport in India]] alone ( excluding Roads and Railways ) ? 50 ? 100 ? Not more... Therefore I am for Roads and Transport together, hopefully railways also in. IMO we can start with '''WP:Indian Roads and Transport''' ( which includes Railways , Rapid Transit and Metro Rails ). If it grows substantially in future and could gather enough interest , I dont see a problem splitting them ... I dont have stanch opinions on this.Thoughts ? -- [[User:Tinucherian|'''<em style="font-family:Kristen ITC;color:#ff0000"> Tinu</em>''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''<em style="font-family:Kristen ITC;color:#ff0000">Cherian </em>''']] - |
|||
::::My bad, I think my earlier note is too confusing. I meant to say that I want roads/transport/railways as one workgroup, separate from the others on media, finance etc. [[User:Ncmvocalist|Ncmvocalist]] ([[User talk:Ncmvocalist|talk]]) 05:33, 30 September 2008 (UTC) |
|||
:::: It's not really splitting rather, parallel coexistence. [[Powai Lake]] can be tagged under both geography and mumbai. From my observation, the Indian noticeboard has been active since 2005, but there are very few regular active editors. Some of out best users have been lost to inactivity, and others have not signed up to WP India. Also by having task forces, it would be easier to determine the priority of select articles. For example, [[K. M. Nanavati vs. State of Maharashtra]] might be a low priority India article, but a top priority law article. So, waiting for a quorum to start a taskforce would might actually be counter productive. [[user:Nichalp|<font color="#0082B8">=Nichalp</font>]] [[User Talk:Nichalp|<font color="#0082B8">«Talk»=</font>]] 05:40, 30 September 2008 (UTC) |
|||
What about ? <br> |
|||
# Transport + Roads + Railways ( The reason I see is that they are all under [[:Category:Transport in India|Transport in India]] ) |
|||
# Media and Communications |
|||
# Government and Law ( minus Politics) |
|||
# Companies (deals with organizations) |
|||
# finance (deals with financial aspects: budget, commerce, economy, banking etc.) |
|||
# education ( schools, colleges , universities) |
|||
# <s>military</s> ( we already have this) |
|||
-- [[User:Tinucherian|'''<em style="font-family:Kristen ITC;color:#ff0000"> Tinu</em>''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''<em style="font-family:Kristen ITC;color:#ff0000">Cherian </em>''']] - 08:48, 30 September 2008 (UTC)<br> |
|||
===Answer=== |
|||
: Folks, What about ? <br> |
|||
The Stewart ''quote'' is from an article, yes. It's really the first and last lines that are the useful ones. They could be incorporated elsewhere - the first could stick around as a critic's reception; the last can go into ''Tales''. Or it could go, I suppose... [[User:Ntnon|ntnon]] ([[User talk:Ntnon|talk]]) 00:34, 5 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
# Roads + Transport |
|||
# Railways |
|||
# Media and Communications |
|||
# Government and Law ( minus Politics) |
|||
# Companies (deals with organizations) |
|||
# finance (deals with financial aspects: budget, commerce, economy, banking etc.) |
|||
# education ( schools, colleges , universities) |
|||
-- [[User:Tinucherian|'''<em style="font-family:Kristen ITC;color:#ff0000"> Tinu</em>''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''<em style="font-family:Kristen ITC;color:#ff0000">Cherian </em>''']] - 08:49, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
:Fair enough. No rush..! What do you feel needs completely overhauling with 'themes' and 'structure'... or do you mean simply in light of the stuff I just piled in..?! [[User:Ntnon|ntnon]] ([[User talk:Ntnon|talk]]) 00:10, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
== On the main page for wrong reasons == |
|||
===Additional resources=== |
|||
There's wayyy too much bad news on the main page regarding India these days. I hope everyone's near and dear ones are fine. — [[User:Lostintherush|<font color="olive">'''Lost'''</font>]][[User talk:Lostintherush|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 15:44, 30 September 2008 (UTC) |
|||
This fansite has collected some [http://watchmencomicmovie.com/watchmen-analysis-criticism-reviews.php useful links], including a [[Peter Sanderson]] essay. Hopefully you'll find something new. [[User:Alientraveller|Alientraveller]] ([[User talk:Alientraveller|talk]]) 20:32, 5 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
:Thanks for your concern, Lost. Yes indeed , it seems that we are going throug bad times. Hope we will have some good news to post soon :-). --[[User:Deepak D'Souza|Deepak D'Souza]] 04:23, 1 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
:Were you able to get the information without any problem? Let me know if it will be useful! :) —<font face="Palatino Linotype">[[User:Erik|Erik]]</font> ([[User talk:Erik|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Erik|contrib]]) - 23:20, 5 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
::The draft is looking good so far, but I'm not sure about the state of the lead section. It seems like it is based on the original version, and I think that with the actual themes that have been explored with ''Watchmen'', it could be revised. —<font face="Palatino Linotype">[[User:Erik|Erik]]</font> ([[User talk:Erik|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Erik|contrib]]) - 23:45, 5 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
Incidentally, can you/anyone get hold of THIS: [http://www.lib.msu.edu/comics/rri/wrri/watchi.htm "Watchmen--The Nightmare and the Dream : a Literary Survey of Watchmen and Sandman" by (A.) David Lewis]...? Apparantly it's 13pp, and was "[p]resented at San Diego Comic-Con 2000's Comic Arts Conferences; based on previous Brandeis University Senior Independent Project." [[User:Ntnon|ntnon]] ([[User talk:Ntnon|talk]]) 20:48, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
== [[Labh Singh]] == |
|||
:Also - sorry for jumping around a bit, trying to maintain some semblance of orderly commenting - do you have Reynolds' ''Super heroes'' to hand? Mine is AWOL, but my ''memory'' is that it's little more than an essay, and somewhat flawed in various parts, too (factually as well as theoretically). Geoff Klock, on the other hand, ''appears'' to be far more in the realm of high literary theory and criticism. But then, ultimately I've only dipped into both thus far, so I could be being very unfair. Plus my Reynolds has wandered off, so I can't refresh my opinions. ...hence the query. :o) [[User:Ntnon|ntnon]] ([[User talk:Ntnon|talk]]) 00:15, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
Hello Indian Wikipedians. |
|||
::Yes, it was seeing it cited that made me track it down. When it resurfaces, I'll see what I think ''now''... :o) [[User:Ntnon|ntnon]] ([[User talk:Ntnon|talk]]) 00:02, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
==="Deconstruction"=== |
|||
If you see my last edit I replaced the names Khalistan with India. This is because there's no country called "Khalistan" and Punjab stated there are today in India. Although many Sikhs fought for "Khalistan" there's no such thing as a land called that, or there has never been. Moreover the flag next to it is an Indian flag. These people will just revert my edits and I'm new here. Can you please help? There's misinformation in Wikipedia. Any unfamiliar reader would think where's Khalistan. It's only a conceptualized state. Please look into it. Thx. [[Special:Contributions/218.111.28.100|218.111.28.100]] ([[User talk:218.111.28.100|talk]]) 18:04, 1 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
*Blurb from ''Squadron Supreme'' talks of it being 'deconstructionist' before ''Watchmen'' and ''Marvels'' |
|||
:Thanks for bringing this into notice. --[[User:GDibyendu|GDibyendu]] ([[User talk:GDibyendu|talk]]) 18:16, 1 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
*Geoff Klock talks about a "third movement" of superhero comic books, attempting to "avoid at all costs the temptation to refer to this movement as 'postmodern,' 'deconstructionist,' or something equally tedious." |
|||
Klock (''How to read Superhero Comics (and why)'') writes a lot about ''Watchmen'': - where do want me to put quotes..?! I don't want to tread on your toes at the moment, so... [[User:Ntnon|ntnon]] ([[User talk:Ntnon|talk]]) 19:24, 6 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
== Call for [[Bigg Boss (Season 2)]] == |
|||
:Interestingly - and not deliberately! - most of the quotes I've pulled from a new book I've just got hold of fall neatly into three sections: 'deconstruction', nine-panel-grid and Moore's scripting (which was a minor section until reasonably recently, complimenting the art & color)... so I feel it would be as sensible to write about those three, drop them into "Misc." for you to revise, and then funnel off into "themes" (primary theme), and "composition" (with and before 'artwork'). |
|||
Hi there. I would like to call for attention of all interested parties towards the article for [[Bigg Boss (Season 2)]] show, which is essentially an Indian remake of the international [[Big Brother (UK)]] format of reality shows. The article has been put into some shape and size (cf [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bigg_Boss_(Season_2)#Help_needed_to_log_.22weekly_summary.22:_tasks.2C_punishments.2C_exits here]) recently. However, in interest of quality content it could surely use some help from experienced editors and/or regular followers of the show. The wiki entry on the previous season [[Bigg Boss (Season 1)]] doesn't seem to help much, and surely doesn't set a benchmark, rather the vice versa may be true. |
|||
:Hence I mentioned some/most/all of those points at the review page as being highly relevant. |
|||
:The article has been identified to be part of [[WP:BIGBRO|Big Brother WikiProject]] where it has been rated as '''High-importance''' on its [[WP:BIGBRO/A|assessment scale]]. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/117.192.225.17|117.192.225.17]] ([[User talk:117.192.225.17|talk]]) 11:20, 4 October 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
|||
:I've also got a bit of quotation about it being collected and getting into bookstores - which is one of the two 'piltdown man'-ish link between "we're very happy with our deal" and (Moore's) anger at DC. The other is the badge/buttons debacle... [[User:Ntnon|ntnon]] ([[User talk:Ntnon|talk]]) 19:23, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
::There you go. I filtered about 50 dense pages into a couple of dozen-or-so salient points. If "deconstruction" isn't liked for whatever reason, Klock suggests "revisionary superhero narrative." I've excerpted some quotes with the hidden-wikipedia-text, and elipsised some others where appropriate. I'll give you full citation information shortly, for all these. |
|||
== Image needs replacement - [[Hindustan Ambassador]] == |
|||
::The deconstruction, artistic information, TPB stuff and script quotes are vital. The third-party descriptions of the main characters underline (with source) the similarities between the cast and the icons; underpinning the fact that they were newly created resonant characterisations. There's also some extra stuff on the ''Freighter'' - and see below for another thought. |
|||
::When do you think you'll be done, <small>(to see what everyone else thinks of the revisions)</small>..? [[User:Ntnon|ntnon]] ([[User talk:Ntnon|talk]]) 21:14, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
===Freighter thought=== |
|||
Hello all... |
|||
Here's a thought: Can you do a fantastic summary of the very brief plot and purpose of ''Tales of the Black Freighter'', and then <ins>section it off into its own page</ins>...? (I think you can sub-page pages, can't you?) It's ''possibly'' not 'notable' enough to stand on its own - although it probably is - and that way it would relieve a little of the length of the ''Watchmen'' article. There's clearly enough information to do a fair-to-decent job on ''Tales'' (and I'm just about to add more - prepare yourself for these bonus quotes..!) as its own discrete unit. |
|||
What do you think? It's clearly integral to ''Watchmen'' the book, but could also be swiftly summarised on the main page, but given the space and text it deserves on its own. [[User:Ntnon|ntnon]] ([[User talk:Ntnon|talk]]) 20:42, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
An image used in the article, specifically [[:Image:IMGP0134.JPG]], has a little bit of a licensing issue. The image was uploaded back when the rules around image uploading were less restrictive. It is presumed that the uploader was willing to license the picture under the GFDL license but was not clear in that regard. As such, the image, while not at risk of deletion, is likely not clearly licensed to allow for free use in any future use of this article. If anyone has an image that can replace this, or can go take one and upload it, it would be best. |
|||
== The impossible is possible tonight == |
|||
You have your mission, take your camera and start clicking.--[[User:Jordan 1972|Jordan 1972]] ([[User talk:Jordan 1972|talk]]) 21:44, 4 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
: I think we do have several free replacements. [[user:Nichalp|<font color="#0082B8">=Nichalp</font>]] [[User Talk:Nichalp|<font color="#0082B8">«Talk»=</font>]] 15:12, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
[[Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness]] charts updated and citations added. I've also updated the sales certs table. Don't ever worry about asking me to help out like this, I think it's fair to say you've probably done more for the alt-rock wikiproject than the rest of us put together. Cheers --[[User:JD554|JD554]] ([[User talk:JD554|talk]]) 10:58, 6 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
== Infobox template issue == |
|||
== RE: Paranoid Android == |
|||
I noticed that on [[Talk:Anant_Pai]] the template's "An appropriate infobox needs to be added to this article, or the current infobox needs to be updated. Please refer to the list of India-related infoboxes for further information." tag does not "nest" itself with the rest of the infobox. This may need to be fixed. [[User:WhisperToMe|WhisperToMe]] ([[User talk:WhisperToMe|talk]]) 07:55, 5 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
Pretty close; I've been working on it all night (and not a bit of homework done... tsk tsk) and Giggy's been writing as well. Just need to finish up that covers section and I think it'll be ready. By the way, I noticed that the number of days you have ''Exit Music'' for is dwindling. If you can, it'd be great if you could put up anything the book mentions about "[[Karma Police]]" or "[[No Surprises]]". --[[User:Brandt Luke Zorn|Brandt Luke Zorn]] ([[User talk:Brandt Luke Zorn|talk]]) 09:49, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
== Indo-Islamic world relations == |
|||
:Yeah, I think ''OK Computer'' will be feature-ready by the end of the month. "Paranoid Android" probably will be too, for that matter. --[[User:Brandt Luke Zorn|Brandt Luke Zorn]] ([[User talk:Brandt Luke Zorn|talk]]) 09:59, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
::Will do. Also, "Paranoid Android"'s now up at [[WP:GAN]]. And I need to get some sleep. --[[User:Brandt Luke Zorn|Brandt Luke Zorn]] ([[User talk:Brandt Luke Zorn|talk]]) 10:32, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
== Findarticles == |
|||
Based on the various "Indo-other states relations" pages, I was wondering if anyone thought having an article India's relations with the Muslim world would be a good idea? I wrote a paper in school once about this. We can easily cover the Arab World, Central Asia and South East Asia. Then sub-saharan Africa can come up, and perhaps Albania/Bosnia at some point too. |
|||
I don;t have access to findarticles, sorry. You might want to try Phil Sandifer though. I don't know what access he has, but he is connected. [[User:Hiding|Hiding]] <small>[[User talk:Hiding|T]] </small> 13:28, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
:Wasn't this already discussed? I think Indo-Muslim world relations is a poor choice of a title. We don't have Indo-Christian (Armenia, Vatican) or Indo-Judaism (Israel), so why Indo-Islamic? Instead, Indo-OIC might be more objective. [[user:Nichalp|<font color="#0082B8">=Nichalp</font>]] [[User Talk:Nichalp|<font color="#0082B8">«Talk»=</font>]] 18:28, 6 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
:: Yes, certainly it was and I think Lihas want's someone to take up the job. I personally feel nothing wrong in the title as the term "Islamic world" is widely used across the globe and even by U.S. govt. But like my previous comment - the title is very generic and would need some focus on Indian stand. India has different views when it comes to troubled states like Pakistan and Bangladesh but friendly relations with Iran and Egypt to almost blank relations with central asian states. Also, though muslims are in minority here, India has vast muslim population which qualifies it as strong muslim population state on global scale. Thus, the article in itself will have no tasty meat to chew. Instead, concentrate on adding articles under the series of [[Foreign relations of India]]. Some major articles are missing like [[Indo-French relations]], [[Indo-Japanese relations]], [[Indo-Italian relations]], [[Indo-German relations]], etc... [[User:Vishnava]] has done some great job in adding to the [[:Template:Foreign relations of India|series]]. I recently wrote [[India-Iceland relations|this]]. I believe, such articles need more efforts. --[[User:gppande|<span style='font-family:"Arial Black";color:white;background:red'>gp</span><span style='font-family:"Arial Black";color:black'>pande</span>]] [[User talk:gppande|<span style='color:blue'>«talk»</span>]] 19:37, 6 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
::What is the scope of the article. How does one cover such a topic? [[user:Nichalp|<font color="#0082B8">=Nichalp</font>]] [[User Talk:Nichalp|<font color="#0082B8">«Talk»=</font>]] 14:56, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
== I Should Coco == |
|||
== Bajrang Dal, Shiv Sena, VHP - militant parties? == |
|||
Hi. |
|||
Hi all, there is an edit war regarding [[Bajrang Dal]], [[Shiv Sena]] and [[Vishva Hindu Parishad]]. I believe, they are not declared militant parties. There are some users continuously reverting them and declaring as militant parties. I need a third opinion on it. Could you please say your words? Thanks, [[User:Shyam| <font color="black">'''Shyam'''</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:Shyam|<font color="orange">'''T'''</font>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shyam|<font color="red">'''C'''</font>]])</sup> 13:32, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
:I feel that you are taking the meaning of the term "militant" a bit too extremely. A militant organization could be an organization like LTTE or JKLF. It could also be used for a political party or organization whose cadres do things which a typical political party would not do such as routinely using strong-arm tactics or army-like rituals(such as RSS). This does not mean the Shiv Sena can be equated with the JKLF. But yes in my opinion the tag "militant" is justified, going by the nature of these organizations. --[[User:Deepak D'Souza|Deepak D'Souza]] 13:57, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
::I am not sure about calling them 'militant', but radical surely fits. However, how does it matter what we think? If a news source calls it militant, keep that as a view of news source with citation, rather than keeping it as a view of WP. --[[User:GDibyendu|GDibyendu]] ([[User talk:GDibyendu|talk]]) 14:08, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
Do you think [[I Should Coco]] should be nominated for a Good article? I believe it meets the good article criteria but I just want to make sure it does. So if you have an opinion on this, please let me know. |
|||
I will duplicate what I said on the [[Talk:Bajrang_Dal#Militant_party.3F|Talk page]], the word 'militant' is being used on the article in the sense of aggressiveness in speech and actions by the group members. Their actions fit the definition of [[militant]], and there are sources for this too. Its not meant to present them as blood-thirsty [[List of designated terrorist organizations|terrorists]]. Just aggressive. |
|||
Maybe is there a milder word we can use instead of militant? --[[User:Knownot|Abhishek]] <sup> [[User talk:Knownot| Talk]] </sup> 14:43, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
Thanks, [[User:TwentiethApril1986|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#00009C">TwentiethApril1986</span>]] [[User_talk:TwentiethApril1986|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#FCC200">(talk)</span>]] 16:18, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
:: In such circumstances, it would be best not to use such terms to describe them. Our job as editors isn't to interpret the philosophy of organizations, but rather to state facts. Please refer to [[WP:MORALIZE]] – it's a really quick read and I think it would help sort out issues on the article. Thanks [[User:AreJay|AreJay]] ([[User talk:AreJay|talk]]) 14:50, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
== Dookie == |
|||
:[[Wiktionary:militant]] stands for either (a) aggressive and combative or (b) fighting, warlike, belligerent. Hence it will be difficult to deny that these organizations are [[Militant]], if we take the first meaning - they have been very aggressive in recent past and caused trouble to communities / society in their area. But popularly ''Militant'' has been associated with ''terrorists'' and hence the view (or even worry) of some individuals that these organizations are ''not militant''. [[User:VasuVR|VasuVR]] ([[User talk:VasuVR|talk]]) 14:56, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
::We have to trust on Reliable sources. As added in the article citations by BBC, NY Times and CNN, the organizations are well known as ''Hindu militant groups'' as their aggressive behaviors and recent attack on Christian minorities in many parts of India . Therefore, the term shall remain perfect in the articles. --<span style="font-family:Times New Roman">[[User:googlean|<font style="color:#1849B5;background:yellow;">''Googlean''</font>]]<small>[[User talk:googlean#top|<font style="color:#000000;background:white;"> <sup>Results</sup></font>]]</small></span> 14:58, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
:::"Radical right-wing" would be more appropriate. CNN etc may be reliable, but do have biases. Best to cite the sources inline (ie "according to..") who call them militant. [[user:Nichalp|<font color="#0082B8">=Nichalp</font>]] [[User Talk:Nichalp|<font color="#0082B8">«Talk»=</font>]] 15:04, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
Just restore [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bajrang_Dal&action=edit&oldid=243591047 this] version and end the discussion. Thank You. [[Special:Contributions/59.95.112.145|59.95.112.145]] ([[User talk:59.95.112.145|talk]]) 15:07, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
Look real close at the article infobox. Do you see a genre field there? [[User:156.34.142.110|The Real Libs]]-[[User talk:Wiki libs|speak politely]] 00:57, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
::::[[User:AreJay|AreJay]] pointed to [[WP:MORALIZE]] which says we should not be add such terms to articles. The facts should point to the type of organization. Examples given in that article - we need not begin article on Hitler with ''Hitler was a bad man.'' Opening statement of these organizations should not have the word ''militant''. [[User:VasuVR|VasuVR]] ([[User talk:VasuVR|talk]]) 15:10, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
I agree with other that 'militant' should not be overdramatized. However, in the case of the Bajrang Dal article, i don't see the absolute need to have it in the opening sentence. Having it mentioned in the lead is ok by me. If the term is removed altogether, with what should it be replaced? '[[Communalism (South Asia)|Communal]]'? --[[User:Soman|Soman]] ([[User talk:Soman|talk]]) 15:18, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
== All Female Bands List == |
|||
:The word militant is not derogatory in itself. If reliable sources use it, then it should continue to be used here. [[User:Imc|Imc]] ([[User talk:Imc|talk]]) 18:11, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
{{namespace detect |
|||
::Militant is the most-NPOV word, however it should not be in the first sentence of the article. It is certainly not perceived as a terrorist group by any majority of people in India, and judging by the tacit support among many Hindus, not especially radical either. Militant describes the fact they are unafraid of using violence to achieve their goals.[[User:Pectore|Pectore]]<sup>[[User talk:Pectore|talk]]</sup> 22:50, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
|main = |
|||
:::Apart from CNN & BBC (accused of biased versions) who used the term militant, it is also being used by many Indian Reliable sources, such as Outlook, Times of India, and Economic Times, etc. Interestingly, I see this term in CPIM, Hinduunity and such 'own' websites. Take a look at any search engine, we will find further wide range of such reliable results. --<span style="font-family:Times New Roman">[[User:googlean|<font style="color:#1849B5;background:yellow;">''Googlean''</font>]]<small>[[User talk:googlean#top|<font style="color:#000000;background:white;"> <sup>Results</sup></font>]]</small></span> 02:50, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
{{ambox |
|||
::::I agree with Pectore and Nichalp. We should not use the term "Militant" in the first sentence or in introduction. We can use it by stating, like according to xyz source etc. Thanks, [[User:Shyam| <font color="black">'''Shyam'''</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:Shyam|<font color="orange">'''T'''</font>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Shyam|<font color="red">'''C'''</font>]])</sup> 10:10, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
| type = content |
|||
| image = [[Image:Accessories-text-editor.svg|50px]] |
|||
===Section break=== |
|||
| text = '''There is a [[WP:DISPUTE|dispute]] {{#ifeq:{{{1|}}}|article|about this article}}{{#ifeq:{{{1|}}}|section|about this section}} and an editor has requested a [[WP:3O|third opinion]].'''<br />{{#if:{{{text|}}}|{{{text}}}<br />}}<small>If you would like to contribute to the discussion, please see the [[Talk:List of all-female bands#Definitions of "All Female Band"|talk]] page.</small> |
|||
Please pay attention to Reliable sources. According to the definition of [[militant]], ''if an individual or party engaged in aggressive physical or verbal combat'', they are called militant group. In this case, these parties are involved in many violence and communal/religious attacks in India. The recent attacks in Orissa, Karnataka and other South Indian states further underline their ''aggressive'' role as ''militant''. Therefore, it is not a big issue or cause for much dispute in this case to use it in the intro itself which gives a clear image about them. --<span style="font-family:Times New Roman">[[User:googlean|<font style="color:#1849B5;background:yellow;">''Googlean''</font>]]<small>[[User talk:googlean#top|<font style="color:#000000;background:white;"> <sup>Results</sup></font>]]</small></span> 02:24, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
}} |
|||
:Heh, I see two proponents of the "militant" termiology who have engaged in sockpuppetry. '''[[User:YellowMonkey|<font color="GoldenRod">YellowMonkey</font>]]''' (''[[User talk:YellowMonkey#Straw_poll_for_selecting_photos_of_Australia_at_the_2008_Summer_Olympics|<font color="#FA8605">click here to choose Australia's next top model</font>]]'') 03:17, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
|talk = |
|||
::in this discussion? or any other related articles? I would like to comment that some users create legitimate uses of alternative accounts per [[Wikipedia:SOCK#LEGIT]]. --<span style="font-family:Times New Roman">[[User:googlean|<font style="color:#1849B5;background:yellow;">''Googlean''</font>]]<small>[[User talk:googlean#top|<font style="color:#000000;background:white;"> <sup>Results</sup></font>]]</small></span> 04:45, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
{{tmbox |
|||
:Not yet, but in the reverting, yes. And in previous religious disputes too. '''[[User:YellowMonkey|<font color="GoldenRod">YellowMonkey</font>]]''' (''[[User talk:YellowMonkey#Straw_poll_for_selecting_photos_of_Australia_at_the_2008_Summer_Olympics|<font color="#FA8605">click here to choose Australia's next top model</font>]]'') 05:27, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
| type = content |
|||
::That was a long back history & the user was blocked for that. After the block expired, there was no such involvement/co-edits by other/id ips in any of these articles. As a check user, you can see it. --<span style="font-family:Times New Roman">[[User:googlean|<font style="color:#1849B5;background:yellow;">''Googlean''</font>]]<small>[[User talk:googlean#top|<font style="color:#000000;background:white;"> <sup>Results</sup></font>]]</small></span> 08:07, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
| image = [[Image:Accessories-text-editor.svg|50px]] |
|||
| text = '''There is a [[WP:DISPUTE|dispute]] {{#ifeq:{{{1|}}}|article|about this article}}{{#ifeq:{{{1|}}}|section|about this section}} and an editor has requested a [[WP:3O|third opinion]].'''<br />{{#if:{{{text|}}}|{{{text}}}<br />}}<small>If you would like to contribute to the discussion, please see the [[Talk:List of all-female bands#Definitions of "All Female Band"|talk]] page.</small> |
|||
== [[Akbar the Great]] == |
|||
}} |
|||
|other = |
|||
This article really needs the attention of someone who undertands Mughal history well. The tone of the article has changed tremendously over the past year. There is a concerted attmept being made to put forth the view that Akbar was a religious fanatic whereas what we have learnt in shcools is that he was very tolearnt. Could someone please take a look. --[[User:Deepak D'Souza|Deepak D'Souza]] 10:49, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
{{ambox |
|||
| type = content |
|||
== Census data required for districts of Madras Presidency for the period 1911-1941 == |
|||
| image = [[Image:Accessories-text-editor.svg|50px]] |
|||
| text = '''There is a [[WP:DISPUTE|dispute]] {{#ifeq:{{{1|}}}|article|about this article}}{{#ifeq:{{{1|}}}|section|about this section}} and an editor has requested a [[WP:3O|third opinion]].'''<br />{{#if:{{{text|}}}|{{{text}}}<br />}}<small>If you would like to contribute to the discussion, please see the [[Talk:List of all-female bands#Definitions of "All Female Band"|talk]] page.</small> |
|||
Hullo friends, I am working with [[Madras Presidency]] article. I was able to obtain census data and details of export, import, etc. for the period 1871-1901 from ''[[The Imperial Gazetteer of India]]'' of the year [[1908]]. But, I don't have the data for the period 1911-1941. I need your help in this matter.If you do have district-wise census details for the Madras Presidency please add them to the [[Madras Presidency#Demography|table here]].Thanks-<font color="maroon" size="4" face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Ravichandar84|Ravichandar]]</font><sub><font color="aqua" face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User talk:Ravichandar84|My coffee shop]]</font></sub> 14:25, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
}} |
|||
}} |
|||
== Indian place article moves == |
|||
[[User:Fundamental_metric_tensor]] is [[Special:Contributions/Fundamental_metric_tensor|moving Indian place articles]] from "Place_name" to "Place_name,Indian state" format. Is it advisable to move them to this format unless there are more than one place with the same name ? I couldnt find a related guideline at [[Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(Indic)]] . Comments ? -- [[User:Tinucherian|'''<em style="font-family:Kristen ITC;color:#ff0000"> Tinu</em>''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''<em style="font-family:Kristen ITC;color:#ff0000">Cherian </em>''']] - 11:19, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
:That's absolutely wrong. States should be mentioned only incase of same names. Places should be stand alone in all general cases. Should be informed immediately. [[User:Kensplanet|Kensplanet]] ([[User talk:Kensplanet|talk]]) 11:27, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
:: Left a note on [[User:Fundamental_metric_tensor|Fundamental metric tensor]]'s talk page. -- [[User:Tinucherian|'''<em style="font-family:Kristen ITC;color:#ff0000"> Tinu</em>''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''<em style="font-family:Kristen ITC;color:#ff0000">Cherian </em>''']] - 12:12, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
:[[Wikipedia:Naming conventions (settlements)]] has some pointers. I wonder why FMT went ahead with such a monumental change without discussion. I know there is an old discussion somewhere about the use of Indian settlements, but am not willing to search any archives for the moment. We only use the ''city, state'' convention for dabs eg [[Bilaspur]]. [[user:Nichalp|<font color="#0082B8">=Nichalp</font>]] [[User Talk:Nichalp|<font color="#0082B8">«Talk»=</font>]] 15:00, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
:: Is this discussion : [[Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions_(settlements)#India]] Nichal refering to ? -- [[User:Tinucherian|'''<em style="font-family:Kristen ITC;color:#ff0000"> Tinu</em>''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''<em style="font-family:Kristen ITC;color:#ff0000">Cherian </em>''']] - 15:55, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
:: Okay, I am very sorry about this. I just lost it, I guess. I have undone most of what I did and I will undo the others ASAP. I will make up for this with some good wikipedia work. Again, I am sorry. [[User:Fundamental metric tensor|I am invariant under co-ordinate transformations]] ([[User talk:Fundamental metric tensor|talk]]) 17:17, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
::Absolutely no problem [[User:Kensplanet|<font color = "red">'''Kensplanet'''</font>]][[User talk:Kensplanet|<font color="black"><b><sup>Talk</sup></b></font>]][[Special:Contributions/Kensplanet|<font color="green"><b><sub>Contributions</sub></b></font>]] 17:35, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
::: No problem buddy, this is how we learn things :) . Do contribute to india related articles -- [[User:Tinucherian|'''<em style="font-family:Kristen ITC;color:#ff0000"> Tinu</em>''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''<em style="font-family:Kristen ITC;color:#ff0000">Cherian </em>''']] - 07:03, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
== Caste-lists and notability == |
|||
Friends,I observed that most of the caste-lists in Wikipedia are made of POV. Most of the names in such lists don't abide by [[Wikipedia:Notability]]. |
|||
Hence, I propose that only names of individuals who have Wikipedia articles be listed. I found an implementation of this thing in [[List of Parsis]] and found it to be good. I've implemented it in [[List of Iyers]] and to some extent in [[List of Iyengars]]. I am waiting for your nod before implementing it in other articles. Thanks-<font color="maroon" size="4" face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Ravichandar84|Ravichandar]]</font><sub><font color="aqua" face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User talk:Ravichandar84|My coffee shop]]</font></sub> 17:49, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
:Earlier had a similar view. Later, found that including links ''encourages'' others to contribute. If someone is notable, but we dont have access to necessary information, by adding them to list ''including a non-existing page link'', it encourages someone who happens by the page, to start the article. So, suggest that you think about it before you plunge in removing such names / links. I believe there is a Wikipedia policy page that ''suggests'' that you leave them there for the same purpose, but am not able to locate the topic now. |
|||
:One other view is that with computers and internet lot of information is available of current people, but not so with bigger achievers of yester years. This skewed availability of information is already reflected in the content ratio of Wikipedia articles. [[User:VasuVR|VasuVR]] ([[User talk:VasuVR|talk]]) 17:58, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
:: In that case, we would rather comment out the individuals who don't articles of their own. What do you say? :-) |
|||
:: Most lists contain lot of caste-propaganda. I found some lists filled with names of civil servants. I am not sure if individuals satisfy notability just because they are of the [[Indian Civil Service]]. We need to know what achievements have these individuals made which sets them apart from the rest. Simply listing them as 'Businessman' or 'ICS' isn't going to solve matters. If we create red links for these individuals and do research upon them to establish notability or wait for someone else to try and establish notability, then maintenance is going to be difficult with so many red links around-<font color="maroon" size="4" face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Ravichandar84|Ravichandar]]</font><sub><font color="aqua" face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User talk:Ravichandar84|My coffee shop]]</font></sub> 18:08, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
::How does one define the notability of a caste? [[user:Nichalp|<font color="#0082B8">=Nichalp</font>]] [[User Talk:Nichalp|<font color="#0082B8">«Talk»=</font>]] 19:07, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
:::Also, does one presume that the notable person self-identifies with the caste (or do we presume that caste identification is fixed at birth and you can't get rid of it)? This whole list by caste when the notable individual has no known association with the caste leaves me with a not so good feeling. (I say, get rid of the list or only add people who have explicitly self-identified themselves with the caste in question.)<small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:RegentsPark|RegentsPark]] ([[User talk:RegentsPark|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/RegentsPark|contribs]]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> |
|||
::::I also share this view. And BTW, I really wish that people had not created an article for each Rajput clan etc. --[[User:GDibyendu|GDibyendu]] ([[User talk:GDibyendu|talk]]) 09:58, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
:I believe that ravichandar's solution is good. Also we should source every article if possible on the list, on the list so that it is made notable and sourced.[[User:Pectore|Pectore]]<sup>[[User talk:Pectore|talk]]</sup> 02:44, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
== [[Coimbatore]] == |
|||
== Genre text removal from infoboxes == |
|||
Someone has moved it to [[SRKV]], which seems to be name of a college in Coimbatore. Can someone please undo it? Thanks. --[[User:GDibyendu|GDibyendu]] ([[User talk:GDibyendu|talk]]) 19:46, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
:Done. Regards, <font color="navy">[[User:Ganeshk|Ganeshk]] ([[User talk:Ganeshk|talk]])</font> 23:11, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
Hey man, I've been reading through WikiProject Music thoroughly, and I side with most of your views. In particular, your request for not removing the genre field text from artist/album infoboxes, as them not beind displayed is enough and that this whole damn thing is extremely controversal. Could you please give me a hand in doing that task if possible? Wiki Libs is on a massive spree of removing the text from many artists, and although he's reasonable in it, he's the only one doing so and doesn't realise that this genre thing isn't completey resolved yet. Take a look at his conrtibs- those probably account for over 80% of the artists that have the text removed. I '''''REALLY''''' appreciate it, as you are a well respected and experienced user here :). Many thanks! [[User:Angry Shoplifter|Angry Shoplifter]] ([[User talk:Angry Shoplifter|talk]]) 04:43, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
== [[Basawon Singh (Sinha)]] == |
|||
:Umm hello? Sorry to be bugging you, but you probably skipped over this as there are probably other new messages for you to see when I posted here. Anyways, to be clear, I know you support the keeping of the text in the infobox, but I'm asking for ''intervention'' help, esepcially against Libs, as he respects you much more than me and I don't want to be the only user taking action. Thanks! [[User:Angry Shoplifter|Angry Shoplifter]] ([[User talk:Angry Shoplifter|talk]]) 06:15, 11 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
==Distraction== |
|||
{{user|59.92.191.254}} has raised the issue of copyvio on Basawon Singh.[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Basawon_Singh_(Sinha)&diff=244353559&oldid=244349636] Could someone who is more knowledgeable than me about the topic (and the sources in question) look into this serious claim? Apparently, [[User:KickahaOta]] created the article for an anonymous user in July 2006,[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Basawon_Singh_(Sinha)&diff=prev&oldid=63333324], but the copyvio in question may have been introduced by {{user|202.78.167.30}}[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Basawon_Singh_(Sinha)&diff=86686637&oldid=78175405] in November. It's possible that reverting the additions of 202.78.167.30 may solve the problem, but I'm not sure. Thanks for any help you folks can offer. [[User:Viriditas|Viriditas]] ([[User talk:Viriditas|talk]]) 08:35, 11 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
Was watching that; euff. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pk30a0qsVIk This is] uncensored; [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQIowXjGGMI this is] amazing |
|||
, and [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eXw47qb4U0 this is] hot. What more could a young man need? [[User:Ceoil|<font color="green">Ceoil</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:Ceoil|<font color="E45E05">sláinte</font>]]</sup> 08:34, 11 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
Revision as of 08:37, 11 October 2008
 Archives |
|---|
Watchmen
Last time I read through W properly, I would absolutely say that Veidt's bullet-catching was shown as a superpower. Having built him up as little more than a hyper-intelligent clever-dick, he's suddenly revealed to not only be impossibly fast, but can catch a bullet - and not to one side, but in front of him. It's a surprise reveal and subversion of what the reader is expecting - Manhattan has been, as noted, the only visible "super," the others just "heroes," and suddely Veidt steps forward.
As noted above, Wylie's Gladiator gives a subtle prod towards a possible origin for Veidt, reminding the reader that his Batman-esque origin need not be the truth (and after all, Nite Owl could be said to be the Batman-stand-in). Hence the stress of "obvious" and "apparent" not of "only."
The link to registration acts (and I mildly agree that it's an odd idea, but it's also quite a good one, bringing them together like that) is a simple stand-in. Yes, a reader should find the salient points in the W article, so that means that the Keane Act should have a section/paragraph/deliberate mention. Until then, I linked it - considering the length, it seemed less controversial than writing about the fictional act, but if that's what's preferable.
I'm still not convinced that the alien invasion is required, and certainly not for 'context' - he has a plan, he puts it into effect. It doesn't need to be described - the reader who wants to know the plan reads the book! ;o) There are dozens of instances where someone might want more in-depth information about the plot (hence the bloated description in most articles), but that's frowned on. (Why did he go to Mars? What did Laurie learn? Why was the Comedian killed? Why did Rorschach investigate? Who tried to kill Veidt?, etc., etc.) Plus, any cases where something doesn't need to be revealed (and this doesn't) allows a new reader to still be shocked/surprised, etc. Also, that is a succinct summation - for someone who's read it. Otherwise it's not difficult to see someone more bemused about HOW that would get the US and USSR to stop fighting - something like "Veidt has a plan to bring peace." is much more succinct and simple.
I haven't looked at the most recent revisions as yet (I've been ill), but I will shortly, and no doubt comment/complain/congratulate..! I think quotes should take precedence in almost all cases over concise summations, bowever, simply because there can then be no accusation of misrepresentation; it's the best kind of primary-secondary source merging; it's interesting to read precisely rather than roughly what was written; it breaks up the page, etc.
Let me know if there's anything that needs sourcing from the Graphitti book, or if there's anything else I can try and hunt out. ntnon (talk) 16:26, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
- We can't say Ozymandias' bullet-catching ability is a superpower unless another source says so, and the sources I've read so far single out Dr. Manhattan as the sole super-powered being. He's the game changer whose abilities are the catalyst formost of the develeopments in the Watchmen milieu. Yes, mentioning that Veidt's plan is to fake an alien invasion is important for context; oddly enough, most of the other things you mentioned ("Why did he go to Mars? What did Laurie learn? Why was the Comedian killed? Why did Rorschach investigate? Who tried to kill Veidt?, etc., etc.") are already mentioned in the plot summary. Saying "Veidt has a plan to bring peace" is too vague when the next paragraph mentions all this destruction with no context. It's just bad writing to exclude it. I'm not one for long plot synopsis, so I wouldn't be arguing for this detail's inclusion if I didn't think it was absolutely essential from a reading comprehension point of view. WesleyDodds (talk) 22:58, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, I'm now looking for that quote (bullet-catching as superpower), but fruitlessly thus far..! Similarly, I saw you've finally weeded out the (bizarre) citation to Mr David's forum - for re-sourcing, I know I've seen recently a quote about this, but I don't whether there's specific mention of the badges, or if its just a strong implication. Would that matter? I think I remember that it was the badges/buttons, but it may be tough to source that - even though it's a pretty vital point, and must stay somehow.
- Likewise, you're probably not wrong to weed out my wordy tangent on TPBs - however, that (currently) leaves it with Moore saying "I like this deal." That's not accurate - it's "I like this deal because there's no precedence for things to stay in print for the next twenty years," since there were no other (DC) TPBs before Dark Knight Returns and the Miller/Chaykin/Moore 'adult/intelligent' comics series was perceived to have started.
- I assume "deconstruction" will return when someone can dig up some sources on that front..?
- Also, what is the criteria for how cited allusory-pictures must be? Clearly the shadow of Rorschach walking through the snow, the (cover image) of Veidt's window through the snow, and the fade-to-white destruction-echo of human forms are all in the shape of the blood spatter. The symmetary/assonance of those images ought to be mentioned, even if the radar screen cover isn't (and I think it should - although the TCJ cover should get the point across, even if the point is not now covered in the text).
- The Doomsday clock needs to be re-incorporated in some form - it's an integral part of the covers, and is echoed by the blood-spatter. Similarly, Veidt's plan echoing Reagan's speech is very notable. Plus Osterman-as-watchmaker and the Einstein quote should probably be worked in somewhere.
- The Mayfair Games books absolutely need to be mentioned - the cross-over into another medium (RPGs) would be notable enough were it not also another element of the over-marketing of Watchmen. One of - I think the - first time there was such a marketing push. Plus, the Mayfair 'Heroes' books were all, I understand, DCU-proper - except the Watchmen one(s). That's enhanced notability! ;o) ntnon (talk) 23:57, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
Answer
The Stewart quote is from an article, yes. It's really the first and last lines that are the useful ones. They could be incorporated elsewhere - the first could stick around as a critic's reception; the last can go into Tales. Or it could go, I suppose... ntnon (talk) 00:34, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
- Fair enough. No rush..! What do you feel needs completely overhauling with 'themes' and 'structure'... or do you mean simply in light of the stuff I just piled in..?! ntnon (talk) 00:10, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
Additional resources
This fansite has collected some useful links, including a Peter Sanderson essay. Hopefully you'll find something new. Alientraveller (talk) 20:32, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
- Were you able to get the information without any problem? Let me know if it will be useful! :) —Erik (talk • contrib) - 23:20, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
Incidentally, can you/anyone get hold of THIS: "Watchmen--The Nightmare and the Dream : a Literary Survey of Watchmen and Sandman" by (A.) David Lewis...? Apparantly it's 13pp, and was "[p]resented at San Diego Comic-Con 2000's Comic Arts Conferences; based on previous Brandeis University Senior Independent Project." ntnon (talk) 20:48, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
- Also - sorry for jumping around a bit, trying to maintain some semblance of orderly commenting - do you have Reynolds' Super heroes to hand? Mine is AWOL, but my memory is that it's little more than an essay, and somewhat flawed in various parts, too (factually as well as theoretically). Geoff Klock, on the other hand, appears to be far more in the realm of high literary theory and criticism. But then, ultimately I've only dipped into both thus far, so I could be being very unfair. Plus my Reynolds has wandered off, so I can't refresh my opinions. ...hence the query. :o) ntnon (talk) 00:15, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
"Deconstruction"
- Blurb from Squadron Supreme talks of it being 'deconstructionist' before Watchmen and Marvels
- Geoff Klock talks about a "third movement" of superhero comic books, attempting to "avoid at all costs the temptation to refer to this movement as 'postmodern,' 'deconstructionist,' or something equally tedious."
Klock (How to read Superhero Comics (and why)) writes a lot about Watchmen: - where do want me to put quotes..?! I don't want to tread on your toes at the moment, so... ntnon (talk) 19:24, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
- Interestingly - and not deliberately! - most of the quotes I've pulled from a new book I've just got hold of fall neatly into three sections: 'deconstruction', nine-panel-grid and Moore's scripting (which was a minor section until reasonably recently, complimenting the art & color)... so I feel it would be as sensible to write about those three, drop them into "Misc." for you to revise, and then funnel off into "themes" (primary theme), and "composition" (with and before 'artwork').
- Hence I mentioned some/most/all of those points at the review page as being highly relevant.
- I've also got a bit of quotation about it being collected and getting into bookstores - which is one of the two 'piltdown man'-ish link between "we're very happy with our deal" and (Moore's) anger at DC. The other is the badge/buttons debacle... ntnon (talk) 19:23, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
- There you go. I filtered about 50 dense pages into a couple of dozen-or-so salient points. If "deconstruction" isn't liked for whatever reason, Klock suggests "revisionary superhero narrative." I've excerpted some quotes with the hidden-wikipedia-text, and elipsised some others where appropriate. I'll give you full citation information shortly, for all these.
- The deconstruction, artistic information, TPB stuff and script quotes are vital. The third-party descriptions of the main characters underline (with source) the similarities between the cast and the icons; underpinning the fact that they were newly created resonant characterisations. There's also some extra stuff on the Freighter - and see below for another thought.
- When do you think you'll be done, (to see what everyone else thinks of the revisions)..? ntnon (talk) 21:14, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
Freighter thought
Here's a thought: Can you do a fantastic summary of the very brief plot and purpose of Tales of the Black Freighter, and then section it off into its own page...? (I think you can sub-page pages, can't you?) It's possibly not 'notable' enough to stand on its own - although it probably is - and that way it would relieve a little of the length of the Watchmen article. There's clearly enough information to do a fair-to-decent job on Tales (and I'm just about to add more - prepare yourself for these bonus quotes..!) as its own discrete unit.
What do you think? It's clearly integral to Watchmen the book, but could also be swiftly summarised on the main page, but given the space and text it deserves on its own. ntnon (talk) 20:42, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
The impossible is possible tonight
Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness charts updated and citations added. I've also updated the sales certs table. Don't ever worry about asking me to help out like this, I think it's fair to say you've probably done more for the alt-rock wikiproject than the rest of us put together. Cheers --JD554 (talk) 10:58, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
RE: Paranoid Android
Pretty close; I've been working on it all night (and not a bit of homework done... tsk tsk) and Giggy's been writing as well. Just need to finish up that covers section and I think it'll be ready. By the way, I noticed that the number of days you have Exit Music for is dwindling. If you can, it'd be great if you could put up anything the book mentions about "Karma Police" or "No Surprises". --Brandt Luke Zorn (talk) 09:49, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, I think OK Computer will be feature-ready by the end of the month. "Paranoid Android" probably will be too, for that matter. --Brandt Luke Zorn (talk) 09:59, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
- Will do. Also, "Paranoid Android"'s now up at WP:GAN. And I need to get some sleep. --Brandt Luke Zorn (talk) 10:32, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
Findarticles
I don;t have access to findarticles, sorry. You might want to try Phil Sandifer though. I don't know what access he has, but he is connected. Hiding T 13:28, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
I Should Coco
Hi.
Do you think I Should Coco should be nominated for a Good article? I believe it meets the good article criteria but I just want to make sure it does. So if you have an opinion on this, please let me know.
Thanks, TwentiethApril1986 (talk) 16:18, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
Dookie
Look real close at the article infobox. Do you see a genre field there? The Real Libs-speak politely 00:57, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
All Female Bands List
 | There is a dispute and an editor has requested a third opinion. If you would like to contribute to the discussion, please see the talk page. |
Genre text removal from infoboxes
Hey man, I've been reading through WikiProject Music thoroughly, and I side with most of your views. In particular, your request for not removing the genre field text from artist/album infoboxes, as them not beind displayed is enough and that this whole damn thing is extremely controversal. Could you please give me a hand in doing that task if possible? Wiki Libs is on a massive spree of removing the text from many artists, and although he's reasonable in it, he's the only one doing so and doesn't realise that this genre thing isn't completey resolved yet. Take a look at his conrtibs- those probably account for over 80% of the artists that have the text removed. I REALLY appreciate it, as you are a well respected and experienced user here :). Many thanks! Angry Shoplifter (talk) 04:43, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
- Umm hello? Sorry to be bugging you, but you probably skipped over this as there are probably other new messages for you to see when I posted here. Anyways, to be clear, I know you support the keeping of the text in the infobox, but I'm asking for intervention help, esepcially against Libs, as he respects you much more than me and I don't want to be the only user taking action. Thanks! Angry Shoplifter (talk) 06:15, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
Distraction
Was watching that; euff. This is uncensored; this is amazing , and this is hot. What more could a young man need? Ceoil sláinte 08:34, 11 October 2008 (UTC)