Talk:Killing of Robert Dziekański

RCMP jobs and salaries

Taking in consideration how high salaries have the RCMP officers, it's real shame for 4 officers to use the tasers against one stapler... isn't it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.230.202.248 (talk) 04:40, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Responsibility

It's not clear from the article if anyone was held responsible for his death. Did any of these cops go to jail for manslaughter? Fired from the force? Anything at all? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.222.199.53 (talk) 00:50, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Stapler

"Shortly thereafter, about 25 seconds after they arrived on the scene, police tasered Dziekanski, even though he had calmed down and was standing with his hands at his side." - It's true that he had calmed down and that his hands were at his side, but he was holding a stapler. It's visible in the video shortly before he falls to the ground. The RCMP may have interpreted this as a threatening gesture. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sstteevvee (talk • contribs) 01:25, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I added the stapler and a source to an eyewitness who mentioned it. A threatening gesture though? Um...yeah, if you say so. Besides, according to the audio and eyewitnesses, the police had already decided to use the taser even before they entered the room. bobanny 02:01, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Stapler

It might be worth mentioning, that Polish Consulate in Vancouver has a translator made available 24/7. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.103.8.38 (talk) 02:12, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

In the video it seems like one of the officers administers two more jolts to the victim after he's on the ground. That would be a total of 4 jolts. Or am I not seeing it clearly? Also, it seems like the officer has his shin across his neck and is putting his entire weight on it. Could that have caused the death? Too bad the video was taken from so far away. Edrigu 02:45, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

one eyewitness reported that he was tasered four times. All of the reports I've seen say that only 2 jolts are captured on the video, and that's all I can make out as well. The autopsy did not determine a cause of death; I would think if it was from a cop's knee/shin suffocating him, they could have made that determination. But then, I'm no Quincy. bobanny 02:57, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Video link

Can we change it to a YouTube version? It is compatible with all OSes... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RupttozsEs0 Laubzega 09:30, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

YouTube links are generally not accepted in Wikipedia. Aquarius • talk 18:23, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Whoops. I just added a YouTube link as a reference on the airport's translation service, but it's a video of a CTV newscast and so I believe it passes as a source and I haven't found anything else that deals with that issue. I chose the CBC link because that was one of the media outlets that bought the video, making it as close to the original as possible. Also, they don't make you watch ads before you can view the video like CTV and some other media. I also have a hard time believing that it's less compatible with various operating systems than YouTube. -- bobanny (talk) 18:56, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Term

Why is the term "incident" used instead of "death"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.36.54.185 (talk • contribs)

Because it's the entire event that's notable, all of the circumstances surrounding his death and including his death. If he died in different circumstances, it probably wouldn't merit an encyclopedia article. It's not an attempt to downplay the fact that someone was killed, if that's what you're getting at; the content of the article is explicit about what happened and the outcome. bobanny (talk) 01:27, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Revision

Sorry, Soggybread, if I stepped on your toes with my revision. I worked on the article offsite and tried to incorporate changes that had been made in the interim. Some changes I didn't leave in, such as the "righteous indignation," which seems to be pure speculation and WP:OR. I'll step back for now; it's good to see others jumping in. bobanny (talk) 05:49, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

No problem! I was surprised to see such a well structured article after refreshing! Excellent work! I too will now be stepping back for a while. :) Soggybread (talk) 05:56, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Useful facts if anyone can find them

Does anyone know if the RCMPs are trained in CPR? Also, does the vancouver airport have defibrillators? Prompt CPR and a AED would have probably saved this guys life, it seems irresponsible to not have the RCMPs trained in at least basic CPR and first aid. 74.79.161.1 (talk) 03:49, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm sure all police have CPR training; that's one of the big things they're getting flack over: not doing anything once he stopped moving. bobanny (talk) 05:24, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

You need to have valid first aid certificate to apply for RCMP.[1]--Cahk (talk) 09:13, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

To expand a bit on what Cahk said wrote above, all RCMP applicants must be certified in infant, child, and adult CPR before they begin training as an RCMP cadet (the link that Cahk posted), and CPR training does include training in how to use an auto defibrillator. These devices were available nearby, according to a National Post report: 'Paul Levy, the vice-president of operations with the Vancouver Airport Authority, confirmed that defibrillators are available in the international customs hall and airport information desks. "A number of people around the airport are trained in First Aid and the use of the automatic external defibrillator," he said.' Second-hand information cited in other news reports says that one of the security guards on the scene that night also had CPR training. Finally, airport policy should have triggered a call to the airport fire department, which could have had its first responders on the scene within two minutes, as opposed to the 11 minutes that the ambulance took. [2] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Brianlucas (talk • contribs) 03:15, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Reason why he spent 10 hrs on the airport.

I believe details about what kept him there 10 hrs are important. Now it's unclear if it was his or customs fault. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.207.94.230 (talk) 23:18, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

That's one of the things that there doesn't yet seem to be a definitive answer for. If you want to add something, this article has the most info that I've seen on Dziekanski's time at the airport. bobanny (talk) 05:03, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Tasered 3-4 times?

There are rumors that Dziekanski was tasered 3-4 times. In the video, you can hear that he was tasered 3 times, not 2. A fourth time could have been distorted by all the noise created by the video but it appears he was tasered 3 times, not two. Frankyboy5 (talk) 01:41, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Only two were apparent to myself, but more importantly, in all the media reports I've seen that discuss the video. That's not meant to be definitive, but at this point it's all that there's a reliable source for, SFAIK. The article does mention the eyewitness that claimed four taser jolts, and if any of those investigations ever conclude, something more definitive will eventually come out. There's also a video on YouTube showing the audio frequencies on the video that suggests there were 4 jolts. I've been watching this article and trying to faithfully adhere to WP:RS because it's a current event around which are a lot of speculation, rumours, and strong opinions, and it could quickly get messy and bloggy. bobanny (talk) 03:09, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Translation of the video?

Are there any translations available of what he said in the video? --69.255.17.40 (talk) 07:38, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

That is what I would like to know. Someone called "diplomat" commenting on this news opinion blog article claims "He kept yelling (in Polish) for someone to call the police."

This Vancouver Sun article says that he says "F---! I will not let you accuse [charge] me of anything."--Timtak (talk) 04:58, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Deleted entire discussion that followed

Relax, I've archived it as a matter of record on my talk page. I shall endeavor to improve the introduction to the article, and I also think it should be tagged as a developing story. Fat lady's song has yet to be heard.--JohnClarknew (talk) 23:27, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Removed entire discussion that followed

--JohnClarknew (talk) 05:33, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Contradiction

This article says he arrived at 4pm on the 14th of October, did not clear customs for 10 hours, and died on the 14th of October. 10 hours after 4pm would be 2am on the 15th of October, so one of those figures must be wrong. 193.95.165.190 (talk) 16:30, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Good point. Thanks. It should have been arrived on the 13th and I have corrected it accordingly.--Slp1 (talk) 17:24, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Names of officers

I think the names of the 4 RMCP officers who tasered Dziekanski should be included in this article. I googled around but couldn't find them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.227.246.31 (talk) 08:47, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Immigration & English?

It is mentioned in the the article that he was an immigrant and couldn't speak English. How could be if an IELTS test is required to establish English level? Also, what was his mother status in Canada? Something doesn't adds up in this story.

See Also should not become a list of all Taser incidents

User:Sstteevvee added on 16:46, April 3, 2008 a link to Walter E. Haake Jr.. There is at the moment no such article in Wikipedia. I think it refers to the death of a person of that name who was hit by a Taser in Kansas and later died. Here's one April 2 news article about it. I'm not going to get involved in editing that article. However, I'd like to say that I don't think every article about a Taser controversy should make its way into the See also section of this article. Eventually we should make a List of Taser controversies article and link all such articles from there. --Jdlh | Talk 19:11, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree. There is Taser controversy, and we should make sure that all included incidents are notable. Flatscan (talk) 04:01, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Gronkely gronk, debronk flonk. Sstteevvee (talk) 13:52, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Haake has been moved. Thanks for the article link, I used it as a ref. Flatscan (talk) 15:05, 5 April 2008 (UTC)