Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bunnies and Burrows

Bunnies and Burrows

Bunnies and Burrows (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

Despite this gaming instructions being published 30-years ago, no claim to notability per WP:NOTABILITY appears to have been established with independent sources. Perhaps this could be merged with List of furry role-playing games? --Gavin Collins 09:09, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

• Keep. First off, this has nothing whatsoever to do with furries, and predates that culture by several decades. Second, this is one of the more well-known old RPGs, which had a significant impact on that genre, and is now taken over and published by one of the major industries in the market. Aside from that, it's a published book (not self-published) with reasonable sales figures and market coverage. >Radiant< 09:39, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

• Question What are the sales figures? If you could let us know, this would be a step towards ascertaining notability. --Gavin Collins 09:49, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
  • The fact that Steve Jackson decided to buy and republish it should be an obvious clue. Also, there's plenty of outside reviews such as this one, although most of them will be offline since B&B predates the internet. >Radiant< 09:54, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
  • ...Why didn't you ask, or make an effort towards ascertaining it, before nomination? --Kizor —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kizor (talk • contribs) 10:07, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

• Keep. This game, as the article indicates has something of a cult status among gamers still today. It is notable for it's emphasis on social role-playing, something unheard of in the time it was out and for it's completely non-human approach. Web Warlock 10:36, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
• Speedy keep What it could use is some additional sources. Definitely not a merge issue. I'll try to find some. Turlo Lomon 10:38, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Notability clearly established now (with references!). First RPG with martial arts. First RPG with skill system. First RPG that allowed for non-humanoid play. First RPG to appeal as widely to women as to men> all of this is sourced, so I upgraded my comment from Strong Keep to Speedy keep. Turlo Lomon 10:58, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

• Delete Does not appear to have received "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject", as required by WP:N. There are a lot of ghits, but these are all personal websites, forum posts, and non-reliable sources about RPGs. The one reference added by Turlo Lomon is a personal website, and therefore does not pass Wikipedia's reliability requirements. —gorgan_almighty 11:05, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually, that is the website of a game publisher independant of B&B. Specifically the company that publishes Fudge (role-playing game system). How exactly is this isn't notable again? Turlo Lomon 11:15, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

• From WP:RS: "Articles should rely on reliable, third-party published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy". The reliability of a competing game publisher is questionable, but it is irrelevant in this case since it is the personal website of Steffan O'Sullivan, not the official website of his company. Being a personal website, he can put whatever he wants on it, therefore there is no fact-checking or editorial oversight that takes place. That makes this an unreliable source. A reliable source would be a newspaper (or well-known magazine) article, for instance. Find something like that that talks in-depth about this RPG.—gorgan_almighty 11:31, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually, that is the official website of his company, but not going to argue that right now. I also added links to multiple reviews by different companies. They are a bit messy, but I will work on cleaning them up when I get home from work. Turlo Lomon 11:35, 11 September 2007 (UTC)