Talk:Meerkat Manor

this needs to stop(has spoilers)

i got spoilers for flowers death, from wikipedia, about 6 months before the episode aired, and i also found out about mozart from this article. we need a spoiler warning. i am tired of being a good wikipedian and removing speculation randomly added in by vandals, only for it to be a real spoiler. we need top either remove the spoilers or put a spoiler tag up. and dont say there arent spoilers! the producer of the show, as well as everyone else, considers it to be a soap opera. the wikipedia page on spoilers says that though generally shouldnt be added to non-fiction articles, there can be excpetions. sometimes you have to ignore all rules. im going to leave wikipedia if everytime i read this article i get a spoiler for something that is going to happen next season.67.185.53.60 00:04, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Honestly, if you do not want spoilers, you should not read this article (or any article for any TV series or movie found on Wikipedia because they ALL contain spoilers). Many of the "spoilers" come from the AP show page or the KMP project page. The issue has been beaten to death and it was general agreed upon by experienced editors that per WP:Spoiler, this show should not have one. Your bringing it up over and over is not going to change that. It is not a soap opera, it is a documentary told with a dramatic flair. If the show were a fictional piece or a soap opera, Flower probably wouldn't be dead, she'd have just been replaced with another meerkat that looked close enough, ditto Shakespeare and all the others that have died. Little pups wouldn't get killed by their aunts, females wouldn't get evicted to die of starvation, etc. It is the real life of the meerkats and the fact is, they do die and suddenly.

As for random speculation, you will not find any in this article. I monitor this article like a bull dog and quickly remove any vandalism and any random speculation, POV issues, etc. Collectonian 00:30, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

I can't see how you would say that it has been agreed upon by 'experienced editors' (who are you to judge who is experienced and who isn't?) that there shouldn't be spoiler warnings. Go back and read "Spoilers. Once and for all". There are plenty of intelligent arguments for having spoiler warnings on this page.Stevielist 03:02, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

You have been at this argument now for almost two months. I have read the thread, in full, along with all the others. The primary arguments for spoiler warnings comes from fans who mostly just say "OMG, you spoiled me" and the like. I haven't seen any good, intelligent arguments that counter the neutral viewed arguments against having spoiler warnings. Meerkat Manor is not a fictional show. Putting a spoiler warning on events that happened months ago would be kinda like putting a spoiler warning up on an election results page. I find it odd that fans seem so rabid about spoilers not being on the Wikipedia article, but don't seem to mind those same spoilers being on the official Meerkat Manor sites. Wikipedia doesn't cater to the US readers, it caters to all readers. If the episodes aired in the UK, the contents are no longer considered a spoiler, it is a UK show!

As for judging who is an experienced editor is and who isn't. That is extremely easy thing to do. I should have expanded that, however, to say experienced editors and those who are not emotionally vested in the topic, and I've yet to see one person calling for spoiler tags who isn't. Collectonian 03:16, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Comparing Meerkat Manor to an election. Very interesting. Stevielist 04:34, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Okay, then I shall compare it to something similar. Go to any reality TV show (one of the genre's Meerkat Manor falls under) and I promise you that you will see the results of the nights voting or eliminations the night the episode airs. I have personally gone over to several shows after watching the new episode myself and already found the results aired. NONE of those shows have spoiler warnings for people on the West Coast who haven't seen those episodes yet. Non-fiction shows don't get them (and they are HEAVILY discouraged in fiction show pages). Collectonian 04:51, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Saying that Meerkat Manor is a reality show is like saying that Kenny G is a jazz musician. Yes, people do refer to it as such because it is unscripted, but there are no similarities beteen MM and any other reality show. Putting MM in the same category with American Idol, Survivor and the like is absurd. Would you admit that Meerkat Manor is a very unique show, and wouldn't fit in any one category easily. Although it is a nature documentary, it does have a story line unlike any other nature show in the world.Stevielist 18:01, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Is Meerkat Manor unusual, yes, but that doesn't make it a fictional show that requires spoilers. And actual, there are other nature programs that have story lines. Meerkat Manor's uniqueness comes from its extended length. There have been several nature movies done in a similar style, documentaries with a dramatic narration. Its primarily categorization, however, is officially a documentary, not a drama, not a fiction show. Collectonian 18:06, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Would you perhaps agree that Meerkat Manor along with these other programs to which you refer (which are shorter, so don't get into the depth of character that Meerkat Manor does) deserve their own genre? Would you agree that this group of shows is different enough from 'American Idol' as well as from National Geographics 'Wild Chronicals' so that they really shouldn't be grouped together. Perhaps if you agree that these shows are sufficiently different to merit a diferent genre, then they would also be subject to a different set of Wikipedia policies.Stevielist 01:43, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

No, I wouldn't. In the end, Meerkat Manor is still primarily a documentary. A different format, but still a documentary AND non-fiction. I would not agree they are different from National Geographic or the like (FYI, one of those nature movies I referred to was a National Geographic special). No, Meerkat Manor is not special or different enough to get its own set of Wikipedia policies and no, it is still not getting a spoiler tag. Collectonian 02:14, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Flower

Yo

This is what really happened to Flower:

"Eventually, Flower appeared at the entrance, rocking from side to side. Her head and jaw were swollen and one eye was half shut. She stumbled to one side of the burrow and lay, breathing heavily. She had aborted during the night and there was some blood on her rear. Zaphod came across and groomed her briefly. As the sun mounted, the rest of Flower's family stopped sunning and started to feed. They were uneasy and called regularly. Eventually, Rocket Dog, led them off to the south and one by one they followed her. Flower tried to follow but fell and crawled back to the burrow entrance, where she lay in the shadow. As Zaphod left, he marked Flower on the head."

I got the book and it said this.

24.26.199.123 01:37, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

So you're saying the book says Flower died from a miscarriage? Can you provide the page numbers with this information on it? Collectonian 01:44, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Flower died from the effects of the snake bite, read the book and stop deleting FACTS !!! What do you want this page to be , FACT or FICTION ?????— Preceding unsigned comment added by Mr Ichi (talk • contribs) 19:06, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Please sign your posts using four ~. The article is about facts, hence it saying she died of a snake bite. I reworded the sentence to make that clearer since it seems you feel it wasn't clear enough. Collectonian 01:15, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Sorry........

No, she was preganet when she was bitten, and miscarried the following night. My friend is currently borrowing the book, so cannot give you numbers.

24.26.199.123 01:48, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm...then whose pups are Animal Planet calling hers? And please stop removing Maybelline from the article. Collectonian 01:51, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Yo

The clips you see of Liz/Bella is really Axle.

I was adding her to Main members.

24.26.199.123 01:55, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Please read the above discussion about that first. Right now, a redo of that section is under discussion, but until it is implemented, it was decided she would stay under the regular characters until we see she ends up at the end of the season. Collectonian 01:56, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Yo

Thanks for explaining. Really sad about Flower. Just glad they never showed it on MM. The reason they made up a fake pup is to try to help the pain of Flower's death.

24.26.199.123 02:00, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Could be. It seems like the more popular MM gets, the more inclined AP is to start changing the facts of their lives.

Did Maybelline give birth in a recent episode or is that something from the book after happens after the end of Season 3? Collectonian 02:03, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Yo

I'm trying to figure that out. Their was really 3 females preganet when Flower died. I'll try to find names.

Monkulus is Maybelline's real name. She has her own group called Aztecs.

24.26.199.123 02:08, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

8 actually !!

I'm guessing that is something that happens at the end of Season 3, so for now it needs to be left out until we see how AP will handle it (if Season 4 will bring in the Aztecs or give them another name). Collectonian 02:11, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Yo

12/27/2006-Eight whiskers females are pregnant, including Flower.

1/25/2007-Flower is bitten by a snake and dies. Flo gives birth follwed by Petra, Ella, and Hawkeye during the next week. He lists the 8 pups that are listed in the KMP report and says their parentage is not yet certain.

1/28/2007-Rocket Dog becomes dominant female of the Whiskers.

Flo is Rose(MM), Petra is Petra(MM), Ella is Mango(MM) and Hawkeye is Rocky(MM).

Sorry i just guessed 3, so i called by friend and she said 8.

24.26.199.123 02:17, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Yo

I got to go. Leave any questions you have for me and i'll answer them tomorrow.

24.26.199.123 02:20, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. So guessing the pups are probably one of the other females. For the book, though, a full citation would be needed before including the circumstances of Flower's death as a note in the article. For now, it will need to stay out. As a whole, the article primarily looks at the information from the show and what AP claims, with info from the KMP project as supplementary to provide updates on some meerkats that MM doesn't update. In either case, it must be properly sourced as per WP:V Collectonian 02:24, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Yo

Just had to say that now i think that Monkulus(Maybelline) was one of the females preganet. I'll research tomorrow.

24.26.199.123 02:26, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Yo

Daisy, Rocket Dog, Maybelline, Rose, Petra, Mango, Rocky, and Flower were the females preganet.

I belive that most of the females lost their litter.

24.26.199.123 15:56, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Daisy was one of those females, because the *real* Daisy was evicted, founded the Starsky, and then died before season 3. Cruise meerkat 17:40, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

That false... The females were: Mango(The Daisy is season 3) Finn (Petra), Flo(Rose), Monkulus(Maybeline), Rocket Dog, Flower, and Rocky... I know becuz Daisy is Kinkajou, Mango is Daisy and Kinkajou is really Sophie... Confusion fixed- Mango_kat —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.82.9.54 (talk) 23:18, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Confusion not fixed, you make it worse.???

Vivian=Commandoes

I know I've already established this, but some people *cough*Collectonian =P*cough* need proof, here's your proof: http://friends.kalahari-meerkats.com/index.php?id=vivian-friends Cruise meerkat 00:00, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Thank you (though http://friends.kalahari-meerkats.com/index.php?id=commandos-friends also would be good as it specifically mentions the mob scenes being Vivian).  :) Now to figure out the best way to put it in the article... Collectonian 00:03, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

There. For now, I've put it in the Commandoes description area with the cite. Collectonian 00:14, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Additionally, the Zappas are actually the Young Ones (http://friends.kalahari-meerkats.com/index.php?id=youngones-friends). It's possibly, however, that the episode dealing with the dual overthrows of Lola and Frank are actually shots of the Zappa as the description of the Zappa mentions a Punk overthrowing a Lola (http://friends.kalahari-meerkats.com/index.php?id=meerkat-groups0#c343) while no such mention of the overthrow of a female in the Young Ones is mentioned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TheUnknown285 (talk • contribs) 17:48, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Article updated. :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Collectonian (talk • contribs) 17:56, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

The Zappa are The Zappa !!! (http://friends.kalahari-meerkats.com/index.php?id=meerkat-groups0#c342) They just used The Zappa name for filming. Probably sounded better than Young Ones. AXEL, who The Whiskers adopted, was given the code VYM137 meaning he was born a Young One and not a Zappa as stated in Meerkat Manor. Mr.Ichi 23:59, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

As the note on the Zappa group and citation state, for footage of the Zappa uses both footage from the Zappa (particularly Punk, et al), as well as The Young Ones. The show states Axel was a Zappa pup, however I have added a note though due to the use of footage of both, it is highly possible (and even probably) that Axel is actually from the Young Ones. I have added a note to that affect, with a reference. Collectonian 00:09, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Why are The Commandoes being shown as having only 11 members instead of the true number?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.50.190.83 (talk) 16:38, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Kinks, Mozi and Whoopy???

Kinks cutnt have died. Or did she have TB in th den? Or who knows the true formation? Its says: oh diedm of TB oh died of pradtion oh died of coldness WHATS WRITE??? Whoopy plz. Mozi is dead... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.19.14.25 (talk) 01:43, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

~translates~ Yes, they are all dead. Mozart was killed by a predator, most likely a jackal. Kinkajou contracted TB and died, either from the disease or possibly starvation. De la Soul/Whoopi also died, either from disease or starvation (her exact cause is unknown).

As for what's right. That's what's right. Unfortunately, people like to come mess with the article and change stuff, so it has to be fixed. Also, AP sometimes changes the cause of death to be less (or more) dramatic, so people change the reality with the AP version. Collectonian 02:05, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks... Probably Hannibal/Jim Bob/Aragorn... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.19.14.32 (talk) 18:50, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

What about Jim Bobannibal? (He isn't Aragorn) Cruise meerkat 01:17, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Differences between UK and US Episodes

Tony, I reverted your change here. While in theory, it shouldn't be necessary to be so detailed, I put in the amount of detail I did to try and address the regular back and forth over names because fans in the US don't realize that the names were changed from the UK versions (which the article uses). It is my hope that by having them here, we will not have to have the UK/US versions listed every single time the article mentions any of the episodes in question. I also think it should be noted that the changes seem to have only started in the third season, which may be important later for critical reviews or the like.

I used "Impact on society" because that's what the style guide listed, but your rename works better. Agreed on the combo of film & book. I started to do it when I added it, but wasn't sure which would be better. Collectonian 02:20, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Updated Stage Names Guide

I have the book now and can tell you stage namesd fully:

• Youssarian - Yossarian
• Kinkajou - Kinkaju
• Sparky - Armanita Ditch
• Maybelline - Monkulus
• Rocky - Hawkeye
• Sophie - Tina Sparkle
• Rose - Flo
• Parsley - Finn
• Mango - Ella
• Chutney - Billy
• Athena - Bananas
• Shelley - Cheetara
• Milley - Wileykat
• Einstein - Logan
• McMurphy - Maladoy
• Dudley - Machu Picchu
• Clive - Ningaloo
• Achilles - Miles
• Attila - Baker
• Pepper - Alonzo Mourning
• Nutmeg - Orinoco
• Bing - Panthro
• Buster - Busta
• Carlos - JD
• Magnus - JD
• Big Si - Basil
• Nikita - Rhian
• Hannibal - Jim Bob
• Axle - Axel(a Young Ones member, not Zappa)
• Squeak - Thundercat
• Tosca - Badiel
• Blossom - Sundance
• Marypat - Popkat
• Whoopi - De la Soul
• Colombus - Kim
• Basil - Never existed! o_O
• Len/Ren - Unnamed
• Squiggy/Stumpy - Unnamed

And Pancake's pups are not Gin and Tonic, those are Yossarian and Cazanna's pups. Pancake's real name is Pancake and her number was VLF092, and HP and Young, two Lazuli females, are mothered by VLF092, who is Pancake. Pancake is not Aretha or a younger female, Pancake is Pancake. Or was, I should say. She is no longer listed as alive. Cruise meerkat 23:19, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

So the book specifically gives a full list of meerkats that have been renamed in the show? What page is the list on? Collectonian 01:12, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Who is Sparky ?? This another American name like Whoopi ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.50.190.83 (talk) 18:20, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Sparky is Armanita Ditch. This is from one of the researchers, although the researchers ask their info is not made public. Collectonian, no, in fact, the only one cleared up is Badiel-Tosca. From the information in the book matched with the info on the show, and also, for Squeak, I matched approxamite birthdate. Cruise meerkat 21:45, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Then this list can not be used for the article as that most definitely falls under the original research area. Unless the book specifically notes "X meerkat was called Y on the show" or something similar, even if your matches may be correct, it is NOT a stated or verifiable fact. It is only your own theory.

If the researcher has asked that the info on Sparky (or the whole list) not be made public, why did you post it here in exact opposite of their request? Collectonian 22:06, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Ok, well, this is just an accurate stage name list, don't list it in the article if you don't want to. Axel is not mentioned by name but I think his birthdate is mentioned, or at least somewhere around it. The researchers don't like a lot of their info being given away, but people have info that I associate they must have gathered from the researchers, and they're the ones who told me about the research policy, and they post stuff like this all the time. Cruise meerkat 22:52, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

You can not claim that it is accurate unless it comes from a valid source, not your own research, or not someone you "associate" with you may or may not have gotten the list from the researchers. You shouldn't believe everything someone posts just because they said it is so. It seems highly dubious to me that a research group would not want their research published...that is generally the whole point of doing the research. Collectonian 01:29, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

I will ask if I can give you the email address and ask her for yourself...She's the webmaster of the FKMP site...And its correct because its proven in what the meerkats' actions were...If its stated that Armanita Ditch got split with the Whiskers smaller group in the time period the Whiskers split in S1, then its 100% reasonable to say that Armanita is Sparky... Cruise meerkat 00:53, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

If they have the information and its accurate, they should publish it on the site and that would solve the whole issue. Unless they do that, it may be 100% reasonable to say that Monkulus is Maybelline, but without a source that says that specifically, it still seems to go against the no original research policies of Wikipedia. Specifically this section

"Any material that is challenged or likely to be challenged must be supported by a reliable source. 'Original research' is a claim for which no reliable source can be found. Producing a reliable published source that advances the same claim taken in context is the only way to disprove an assertion that a claim constitutes original research. If there is a source, but the source or claim is disputed, that is not original research but rather of a question of reliable sourcing or undue weight. However, using information from references out-of-context or to forward claims not directly supported by the sources is original research."

When some people already don't like KMP info being included in the article at all, despite it being verifiable, because they complain its spoilers, they may challenge the reasonable deduction. As such, if we simply said, okay, KMP's description of Monkulus matches AP's description of Rocket Dog perfectly, that's whose who, it could be challenged and without the "X meerkat equals Y on AP" published, it would seem to be removable as OR. I am, however, talking the issue to a discussion area for policy and the like to get some further clarification and guidance on the issue. If it comes back that, in the case where KMP and AP's descriptions make it very clear that X meerkat is Y can be used, the article will be updated appropriately. Until then, only verifiable ties will be included with the one exception of Aretha (due to the ridiculousness of saying a dead meerkat is head of a group). Collectonian 01:31, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

As the most recent information on the Lazuli featured on Meerkat Manor is Cazanna is the DF, it should stay that way. Besides, JD isn't the dominant male, he died, and wasn't even in the Lazuli when he died. He was in the Starsky(he was Carlos). And besides, THIS IS NOT FOR USE IN THE ARTICLE IF YOU DON'T WANT TO! I've been saying that! I put this up here because people want to know, its true information but its original research but you don't have to put it in the article! Besides, isn't all information "original research"? Think about it(xD). Cruise meerkat 03:21, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

If it is not for use in the article, it doesn't belong here per WP:TALK. This is not a place for you to store away information, it is to discuss the improvement of the article. Since it is not for use in the article and does not apply, please remove it. Collectonian 03:29, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

-sigh- Ok I forgot what I was gonna say but tomorrow I will come back and (if I actually remember it) post it. Cruise meerkat 03:32, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Umm....I still forget. Ok, let's just go with this: I can tell you the FKMP site will be updated after season 3 with more info, a stage name list, I don't know. I can ask for one to be put up though. Cruise meerkat 16:26, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

If the results of the discussion are that KMP doesn't belong at all, it won't matter. None of it will be included in the article anymore. If you feel KMP information adds to the article, I'd suggest going over and saying so in the discussion on the policy boards, cause right now I'm the only one who supports it. Collectonian 16:44, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

KMP and Spoilers

As noted above, I have brought up the issue of whether the KMP only info belongs in the Meerkat Manor article at all with some neutral editors in the policy boards. Depending on the consensus, all KMP only info will be removed from the article with only the show, Animal Planet sites, and AP press releases being usable for any info about the show events and characters. I have also asked for input on the whole spoiler tag debate. Collectonian 07:54, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Axle's spelling

http://animal.discovery.com/fansites/meerkat/meet/whiskers.html Its Axle. Cruise meerkat 03:27, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Once again I remind you, Meerkat Manor is a UK show so we use the UK spellings, which in this case is Axel. Collectonian 03:35, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

There is no mention of "Axel" or "Axle" on the Animal Planet UK site(with "Axle" at least on the US site), so there really is no proof its spelled different in the UK. Cruise meerkat 16:10, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the AP UK site is out of date, however other articles about the UK spell it as Axel, so that is what we will use until AP UK says otherwise. Collectonian 16:43, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Edits - KMP versus MM

Until the discussion on the policy board is done, can we please just not change anything in the article, content wise? We can't keep going back and forth on these issues of whether to include this but not Y and we can't pick and choose how to use a source or not. Cruise, in your edits today you removed a bunch of stuff as not being in MM, yet then turned around and changed the number of Flower's pups because "MM was lying." It has to be one or the other. Either outside information is usable for ANY of the meerkats, including noting Cazanna's death, or it is not. The consensus on the board seems to be leaning towards removing all outside references regarding the meerkats on the show, which includes accepting whatever numbers AP gives, AP's version of events, and removing all group counts as only the Whiskers one did not come from KMP. Feel free to go weigh in over there.

For now, I've undid your change to Axel's name per the note above (UK show, UK spellings) and put back the count of 70 for Flower's pups. Please leave the count in place until the issue of whether KMP (and likely the book) can be used as sources to enhance info about the meerkats, or if the article must only include what AP says. Collectonian 04:14, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Aztecs

Hola,

shouldn't the Aztecs be like the Starsky, and have their own section only featuring Monkalline(Maybelline).

Gracias!72.178.145.56 18:24, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

At the moment no. They have only appeared in one episode thus far and we can not be sure they will still be around at the start of season 4 or be truly notable. From the info on the KMP site so far, indicators point towards the group failing and either rejoining the Whiskers or possibly dying out. Either way, until we see if the group will be around in the next season and if AP will include them in the show, they do not need their own section or to be mentioned beyond the notes on Maybelline under the Whiskers section. Collectonian 19:47, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Where are these clues that they will rejoin Whiskers or die out? Whiskers-Aztecs encounters are the most numerous of all KMP mob encounters. The Aztecs are a permanent splinter and are still alive as proves the KMP site... Cruise meerkat 01:40, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

They are still alive, but the KMP site notes that all the Whiskers males have already left the group, reducing the group from 15 to 7, of which only 3 are adults. We saw what happened when the Starsky was reduced to three females with no dominant males. The encounters with the Whiskers are to be expected considering the Aztecs don't have much territory that is just theirs. The encounters, however, means nothing. There have been no new pups or matings since the group formed in March, only one death or disappearance. Irregardless, they should not have their own group section in the article until Season 4 starts. Even if they do survive, if AP decides not to include them on the show in Season 4, the group can't be considered notable or worth mentioning beyond the quick note about them in the Whiskers section. We probably won't know what AP decides until August of next year when season 4 airs, as filming is probably just now concluding. Collectonian 01:54, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Big Sy's Death

There needs to be a better reference to Big Sy being euthanized than the one previously provided (http://animal.discovery.com/fansites/meerkat/flower/transcript.html). That transcript does not say that Big Sy was euthanized. If there is no citation that someone can provide for this, it will be deleted later on by someone else who is looking for verification that this is true. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.194.64.246 (talk) 21:17, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

The citation is for the reason he was put down, not to verify that he was put down. They said at the start of Season 2 that he got TB and was put down. I've modified the sentence to make it easier to see what the cite is for, and added a cite for the episode. Collectonian 22:02, 4 November 2007 (UTC)