Talk:Ketchup and User talk:JPG-GR: Difference between pages
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{{WikiProject Food and drink|class=B|importance=mid}} |
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{{WikiProject Southeast Asia|class=B|importance=|Brunei=yes}} |
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{{WP Etymology}} |
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{{DelistedGA|12:24, January 12, 2006|oldid=34563212}} |
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== |
== Admin == |
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I recently reverted an edit saying that "Dead horse" was Aussie slang for ketchup. It sounds like rubbish to me, but as someone has called me on [[WP:AGF|Assume Good Faith]], I'll ask here. Is it? [[User:SkylineBNR34|SkylineBNR34]] 09:49, 6 November 2007 (UTC) |
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Hey. I see you a lot at [[Wikipedia:Requested moves]], though I don't really do anything there myself, and was quite shocked to see you weren't an admin. I'd like to nominate you for adminship at [[WP:RFA]] if you're interested; let me know. [[User:Wizardman|<span style="color:#060">'''''Wizardman'''''</span>]] 19:41, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
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== Ketchup and US Politics == |
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:As you are, I believe, the third such person to make a similar comment in as many months, I will take the offer under serious consideration. However, it should be noted - I do much more cleanup/"admin"-related stuff than I do actual content writing, so I suspect that may be an issue (I lurk once or twice a week in the [[WP:RFA]] realm, and know how that goes...). Give me maybe 48 hours or so to ponder. :) [[User:JPG-GR|JPG-GR]] ([[User talk:JPG-GR#top|talk]]) 20:38, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
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While it is true that Bush supportes started covering up Heinz labels and produced 'alternative' ketchups during the election, I also heard that T. Heinz was no longer involved in the Heinz corporation. Is that true? If so, it should follow the 'as not to add to his opponent's campaign coffers.[9]' comment. |
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::Alright. It's been 48 hours and I'm still impressed with your contribs. So how about it? :) [[User:Wizardman|<span style="color:#060">'''''Wizardman'''''</span>]] 16:17, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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[[User:207.69.137.24|207.69.137.24]] 14:20, 4 March 2007 (UTC) |
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:::Sure, why not? What could be the harm. A request though - can we not start the official process until Sunday? I'm on vacation next week (which means away from work, not away from home) and I should have a more "regular" availability to answer questions/take a beating. ^_^ [[User:JPG-GR|JPG-GR]] ([[User talk:JPG-GR#top|talk]]) 16:26, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::::That's not a problem. I'll be on sparingly until Sunday myself, so I'll write up the nom, you just get to the questions when you're ready. [[User:Wizardman|<span style="color:#060">'''''Wizardman'''''</span>]] 18:46, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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== Airstaff Schedules and other things == |
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== Tomato Sauce? == |
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''Ketchup'' is known as ''Tomato Sauce'' in Australia - perhaps in other countries too?? (suspect U.K.) |
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Alright, I am tired of you guys deleting airstaff lineups and past personalities section of radio station pages, ESPECIALLY YOU!. I am fed up with every single time i go and edit something you got to go and take it off. For example, back in August on the [[WYCD]], [[WDTW-FM]], [[WKQI]] and [[KBWF]] pages i put a past personalities page on it, somethig historical about the stations history of jocks, but do you keep it up, no. I read something on here that said it is fine if it is historical or something like that, But you still take it off. I dont give a damn if wikipedia allows it, it should be up there. As for radio station lineups being on the page, i think they should. it is stupid to not have them on. As i have said many times before. THE DJ'S ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF A RADIO STATION, WHETHER THEY ARE FROM THE PAST OR PRESENT. but you just don't get it do you. Keep these lineups up on wikipedia. i see no reason as to why they can not be on. And don't give me that crap that it is because of promoting a station. IT IS NOT. you are just listing who works at the station. It is no diffrent than listing TV shows on the tv channel pages. and they seem to allow that. Besides if these were up. it would be great for certain people who want to look ata stations past and that also means past DJ's. To top it all off. i saw you deleted the station ratings section on [[KBWF]], for what frickin' reason, what excuse can you come up with now. I have had those up on pages for well over a year, almost two and your, for some reason taking them down! I have had it with you and all the other people taking off stuff, that could be very useful to a radio page. What is the point of having anyone come in and add things to a page, when they are just gonna be deleted by you! |
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:In the [[United States]] we're schizophrenic on this subject. Some say ketchup and some say catsup. Even the manufacturers can't make up their minds. Tomato sauce is something else again -- a canned substance made up of liquified tomato with salt added. -- [[User:Zoe|Zoe]] |
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[[user:Joemama993|Joemam993]]([[user talk: joemama993|Talk]]) <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment was added at 21:51, 7 October 2008 (UTC).</span><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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: Yeah in the UK it's usually called 'Tomato Sauce' but Ketchup is almost as common. [[User:80.46.160.59|80.46.160.59]] 02:52 Nov 24, 2002 (UTC) |
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:[[WP:NOT#DIR]]. [[User:JPG-GR|JPG-GR]] ([[User talk:JPG-GR#top|talk]]) 22:15, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
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== My request was complete according to instructions. == |
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::In the [[United Kingdom|UK]], we call it "tomato ketchup" or "tomato sauce". Now that I come to think of it, I'm not sure which is used more often. I mean, if I'm buying it in a shop, I'll look for "H**** Tomato Ketchup" (phew, averted some inadvertent advertising there), but when I ask for it, I might ask for the... tomato ketchup, actually. Ah, looks like that wins. Except if I'm reverting to a childlike state, in which case it's "red sauce" (as opposed to "[[HP Sauce|brown sauce]]", of course). I suspect it depends who you ask... Oh - I see that it does. Sorry, [[User:80.46.160.59|80.46.160.59]], I wrote this before I saw your response, and I can't be bothered to change it now! (Oh, but I suppose I should add that we ''never'' call it "catsup"!) -- [[User:Oliver Pereira|Oliver Pereira]] 03:06 Nov 24, 2002 (UTC) |
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The instructions at [[WP:RM#Requesting potentially controversial moves]] clearly do not mandate its use. If administrators view it as mandatory, the wording should be changed. |
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:::Oh, it's all too confusing. Now I've started thinking that I might call it "tomato sauce" more often after all... But why am I wasting my time thinking about such trivial things? Perhaps I should just go to bed... -- [[User:Oliver Pereira|Oliver Pereira]] 03:08 Nov 24, 2002 (UTC) |
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I have used the template per your request however. |
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:::: I just added "catsup" as a redirect to "ketchup". I'm surprised you guys didn't already add it yet you insisted on having the traditional debate. [[User:Tjdw|Tjdw]] 03:16, 13 Dec 2003 (UTC) |
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--[[User:Rogerb67|Rogerb67]] ([[User talk:Rogerb67|talk]]) 22:51, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
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I've never known anyone to call it Ketchup outside of TV shows. |
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Err, use of '''<nowiki>{{subst:RMtalk|NewName|reason for move}}</nowiki>''' that is. Sorry about the tone of my first response; I was a bit miffed because I had tried very hard (and in fact succeeded as far as I can see from the instructions actually presented to first-time requesters) to do this right. Can I move my proposal back down now or is it stuck in "incomplete" limbo for whatever time period? --[[User:Rogerb67|Rogerb67]] ([[User talk:Rogerb67|talk]]) 23:06, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::::In the USA, "tomato sauce" refers to what amounts to a very thin and unseasoned marinara sauce, the major ingredients are tomato, water, salt, with some added items that vary. [[User:Dogface|Dogface]] 11:28, 10 August 2006 (UTC) |
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:The proposal is complete now, yes. [[User:JPG-GR|JPG-GR]] ([[User talk:JPG-GR#top|talk]]) 23:35, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:[[User:Nik nah|Nik nah]] 06:40, 15 January 2007 (UTC) Ketchup is not very popular in Australia. It's referred to as tomato sauce in Mcdonalds because they only sell ketchup there and no one is used to using the word ketchup so they call it tomato sauce. But in the supermarkets, there is definately a difference between the two: http://upcolaph2.colesmyer.com.au/fcgi-bin/sam.fcg?aab=VK584cS116&aaa=013&aac=3794&aag=All+Sauces |
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== hello JPG-GR == |
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:: Well, the condiment this article covers is called Tomato Sauce by me, and as far as I know, everyone I know, everyone and anyone I buy it from, and the labelling. I too live in Australia, by the way. It is popular, it goes on meat pies and hot chips. I went to the [[Philippines]], they call it Ketchup, but never once did I taste anything that remotely reminded me of tomatoes. |
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::What is this 'Brown Sauce'? Worcestershire Sauce, Gravy, Barbecue Sauce?--[[User:The Chairman|The Chairman]] <sup>([[User_talk:The_Chairman|Shout me]] · [[Special:Contributions/The_Chairman|Stalk me]])</sup> 12:57, 15 September 2007 (UTC) |
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:::There's actually a difference between ketchup and Australian tomato sauce and it is more likely to be noticed by people used to ketchup than the other way round - The difference is the absence of vinegar in tomato sauce. It's basically the same thing and used for the same purposes, but the lack of vinegar makes it less tangy. Australian tomato sauce is also not quite as viscous as ketchup. [[User:70.189.213.149|70.189.213.149]] 11:49, 6 October 2007 (UTC) |
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Surprising no one's mentioned [[Heinz]]. |
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Please remove my request comment under the Incomplete and Contested Proposals. I am requesting a full move for the List of Canadians of Asian ancestry Article. I have posted my request in the Other Proposals. [[User:Sonic99|Sonic99]] ([[User talk:Sonic99|talk]]) 02:28, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:JPG-GR, I want to a post a notice about the Discussion to support or oppose the full move at the top of the List of Canadians of Asian ancestry Article, so every editor can see it. Can you please tell me what I should add at the top of the article? [[User:Sonic99|Sonic99]] ([[User talk:Sonic99|talk]]) 04:20, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
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That picture is pointless and should be removed. -- [[User:Stewacide|stewacide]] 07:46, 16 Dec 2003 (UTC) |
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* Regarding the new caption: |
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Tomato and ketchup. No, it's not really made this way. |
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:... Ha! I know it's not quite appropriate in an encyclopedic context, but it's amusing, so I will look the other way and see if anyone else changes it. As for the picture... it's interesting. At least it's a lot more professional looking than someone's photo of a bottle of ketchup in their fridge. - [[User:Eisnel|Eisnel]] 00:11, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC) |
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::Unfortunately, there is no such template. By editing the talkpage, you have already alerted everyone that has the page on their watchlist. Beyond that, there's not much else you can do. [[User:JPG-GR|JPG-GR]] ([[User talk:JPG-GR#top|talk]]) 04:45, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
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---- |
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==Tell me How to report vandalism== |
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Please add recipes and nutrition analysis. Thank you. I've already added the fluid mechanics, vaccum dehydration and HDPE squeeze bottles. Please, let there be science! |
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Tell me how to report vandalism. I don't like what [[User: Joemama993]] said on my talk page. I'm trying to work with him, but he's not (paticent/misspelled) or something. Need to report him. You can go to my talk page to see what he said for yourself, if you want to report him for that. Just wanted to let you know.--[[User:JoeCool950|JoeCool950]] ([[User talk:JoeCool950|talk]]) 02:37, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
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==Etymology== |
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:Short of requesting that he not post on your talk page, there's not much official you can do until he starts violating policies. [[User:JPG-GR|JPG-GR]] ([[User talk:JPG-GR#top|talk]]) 03:09, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
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==Could I put that edit in on [[WP WPRS]] for introductions== |
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I was wondering if I could put that edit in then under introductions, so that it would be considered o.k.?--[[User:JoeCool950|JoeCool950]] ([[User talk:JoeCool950|talk]]) 06:03, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
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== Radio == |
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I think the word "茄汁" could have been a mistake. |
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I do apoligize for the stuff I said about wikipedia and you, I just got mad about what you guys are doing to these pages, because it does take a long time to figure stuff out to put on these pages. In a very strange way it is almost like dectective work, trying to figure out where everything or in this case everyone goes. One thing though that stil don't get is, why are they taking down the stations prievious arbitron ratings. Maybe you could shed some light on this subject as to why they took it off of the [[WYCD]] page. Again I am sorry for what I wrote before. I was just pretty upset about this. No hard feelings? |
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Both the Oxford English Dictionary and Encyclopedia Britannica states that the Chinese words similar to "ketchup" means a brine of pickled fish. How the Canton word for tomato sauce fits in this picture I dont understand. There is obviously a serious mistake here. Could someone look into the Chinese signs, please? |
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Thanks Again<br> |
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If ketchup indeed originated in Chinam, with the meaning tomato sauce, this would indeed be sensational. Signifying that the chinese invented the tomato ketchup, and that the ketchup-variant made from pickled brine, came after. This must be completely wrong. The truth, I suspect, is that the first chinese words for ketchup means brine of pickled fish. -8. JUN 2006. |
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[[user:Joemama993|Joemam993]] ([[user talk: joemama993|Talk]]) <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment was added at 19:43, 8 October 2008 (UTC).</span><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:Or that the word that Westerners picked up, and that eventually became "ketchup", came after the Chinese started using tomatoes (or eggplants) instead of (or as well as) fish. -- [[User:Zsero|Zsero]] ([[User talk:Zsero|talk]]) 14:16, 17 March 2008 (UTC) |
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:[[WP:COPYVIO]]. [[User:JPG-GR|JPG-GR]] ([[User talk:JPG-GR#top|talk]]) 05:48, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:The current text (17Mar08) makes it sounds that Indonesian 'ketjap' is a fish sauce, but it is a soy sauce without any fish ingredients, similar to other asian soy sauces (Kikoman). [[User:Dirkjot|Dirkjot]] ([[User talk:Dirkjot|talk]]) 11:43, 17 March 2008 (UTC) |
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::Today it may not be a fish sauce, but the ketjap that Westerners found in the East Indies in the 17th century was. Ketchup has surely changed as much in the East over the past few centuries as it has in the West. -- [[User:Zsero|Zsero]] ([[User talk:Zsero|talk]]) 14:16, 17 March 2008 (UTC) |
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== Stations Ratings Question == |
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===The [[Oxford English Dictionary]]=== |
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I got a message from someone who said that if you put the ratigs into prose, it would be accepted. Now i know we can't have a list like it was prievoisly like, but how would you write it into prose. |
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: '''Ketchup''': [app. ad. Chinese (Amoy dial.) ''kôechiap'' or ''kê-tsiap'' brine of pickled fish or shell-fish (Douglas Chinese Dict. 46/1, 242/1). Malay ''kchap'' (in Du. spelling ketjap), which has been claimed as the original source (Scott Malayan Wds. in English 64-67), may be from Chinese. |
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Would you write it like this |
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: The Japanese ''kitjap'', alleged in some recent dicts., is an impossible form for that language. (? error for [[Javanese language|Javanese]].)] |
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::Thats not a Japanese word, no. Probably Malay or Indonesian. c.f http://www.geocities.co.jp/Foodpia/6374/ketchup.htm |
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:::The dutch wikipedia believes the name comes from the indonesian soy sauce 'ketjap' (or kecap). (http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketjap) |
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Summer 2008 Phase II Arbitron Rating: #1 (5.2) |
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: A sauce made from the juice of mushrooms, walnuts, tomatoes, etc., and used as a condiment with meat, fish, or the like. Often with qualification, as mushroom ketchup, etc. |
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:* [[1711]] LOCKYER Acc. ''Trade India'' 128 |
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:** Soy comes in Tubbs from Jappan, and the best Ketchup from Tonquin; yet good of both sorts are made and sold very cheap in China. |
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:* [[1748]] MRS. HARRISON ''House-kpr.'s Pocket-bk''. i. (ed. 4) 2, |
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:** I therefore advise you to lay in a Store of Spices, ... neither ought you to be without ... Kitchup, or Mushroom Juice. |
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:* [[1817]] BYRON ''Beppo'' viii, |
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:** Buy in gross ... Ketchup, Soy, Chili~vinegar, and Harvey. |
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:* [[1840]] DICKENS ''Barn. Rudge'' (1849) 91/1 |
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:** Some lamb chops (breaded, with plenty of ketchup). |
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:* [[1874]] COOKE ''Fungi'' 89 |
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:** One important use to which several ... fungi can be applied, is the manufacture of ketchup. |
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Is it okay to write it like that, i really have no idea |
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: ---- |
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Thanks and again I do apoligize for what i said a few days ago<BR> |
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: '''Catchup''', '''Catsup''': A liquor extracted from mushrooms, tomatoes, walnuts, etc., used as a sauce. (Common in N. Amer., but in the U.K. now only KETCHUP.) |
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[[user:Joemama993|Joemam993]] ([[user talk: joemama993|Talk]]) <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment was added at 19:38, 9 October 2008 (UTC).</span><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:* [[1690]] B. E. ''Dict. Cant. Crew, Catchup,'' |
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:** a high East-India Sauce. |
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:* [[1730]] SWIFT ''Paneg. on Dean Wks''. 1755 IV. I. 142 |
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:** And, for our home-bred british cheer, Botargo, catsup, and caveer. |
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:* [[1751]] H. GLASSE ''Cookery Bk''. 309 |
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:** It will taste like foreign Catchup. |
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:* [[1832]] ''Veg. Subst. Food'' 333 |
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:** One ... application of mushrooms is ... converting them into the sauce called Catsup. |
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:* [[1845]] E. ACTON ''Mod. Cookery'' v. (1850) 136 (L.) |
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:** Walnut catsup. |
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:* [[1862]] ''Macm. Mag''. Oct. 466 |
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:** He found in mothery catsup a number of yellowish globular bodies. |
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:[[WP:COPYVIO]]. [[User:JPG-GR|JPG-GR]] ([[User talk:JPG-GR#top|talk]]) 19:46, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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===The [[Encyclopaedia Britannica]] 16th ed, (1985)=== |
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== KLHV vs KGCO == |
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: Catsup also spelled Ketchup, spicy liquid condiment widely used in the United States and Great Britain. |
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I'm not experienced enough on Wikipedia to revert your changes to the KLHV article, however KLHV is still in place in Fort Collins, according to the FCC database; and KGCO is still a station in Red Feather Lakes. See http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/fmq?call=KLHV and http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/fmq?call=KGCO <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/71.218.117.1|71.218.117.1]] ([[User talk:71.218.117.1|talk]]) 01:30, 10 October 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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: U.S. catsup is a sweet puree of tomatoes, onions, and green peppers flavoured with vinegar and pickling spice that is eaten with meats, especially beef, and frequently with french fried potatoes (British chips); it is the universal condiment of fast-food sandwiches. |
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:Not sure what happened there (around four months ago), but I've fixed it. [[User:JPG-GR|JPG-GR]] ([[User talk:JPG-GR#top|talk]]) 05:53, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
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==list of elements at [[wt:elements]]== |
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: In Britain, as formerly in the United States, catsup signifies a spicy liquid based on mushrooms, unripe walnuts, or oysters; this catsup functions primarily as a seasoning for cooking. |
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If you wold still consider working on any of the lists let me know since I wanted to do the table but I lack the will to go do it just by myself. [[User:Nergaal|Nergaal]] ([[User talk:Nergaal|talk]]) 00:24, 11 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:Time is in short supply lately, but it's still on my (long) to-do list. [[User:JPG-GR|JPG-GR]] ([[User talk:JPG-GR#top|talk]]) 01:02, 11 October 2008 (UTC) |
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== re: [[WP:RM]] == |
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: The word derives from the Chinese ''ke-tsiap'', a fish brine, probably by way of the Malaysian ''ketjap''. |
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I am? I thought we only had 5 days up at a time. Thanks for letting me know, I won't do that anymore :) [[User:Parsecboy|Parsecboy]] ([[User talk:Parsecboy|talk]]) 04:24, 11 October 2008 (UTC) |
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===The [[Encyclopaedia Britannica]] 11th ed, (1911)=== |
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== re [[Li romans d'Alixandre]] == |
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: http://36.1911encyclopedia.org/K/KE/KETCHUP.htm ([[Optical character recognition|OCR]] copy, without proofreading) |
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I noticed that you classified the discussion of the requested move of [[Li romans d'Alixandre]] to [[Roman d'Alexandre]] as "no consensus". I am not sure that that is entirely accurate. While there is a comment by Srnec about the confusing nature of the topic (and discussion of the French wiki link topic), there are, in fact, no comments specifically against the requested move. The Roman d'Alexandre is a particularly specialized topic that isn't likely to get a lot of wiki visits, but (as I comment in the move request) all the critical works published today on the specific text this article covers (Bernay's compilation/composition) use "Roman d'Alexandre". Must the requested move really be tabled? If the French wikipage [[:fr:Roman d'Alexandre]] directs in English to the general discussion of the whole of the [[Alexander Romance]] problem, do you think an article title like "Roman d'Alexandre (work)" might be used? Or perhaps we might rename the general title "Alexander Romance texts"? - [[User:NYArtsnWords|NYArtsnWords]] ([[User talk:NYArtsnWords|talk]]) 13:50, 11 October 2008 (UTC) |
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: '''KETCHUP''', also written catsup and katchup (said to be from the Chinese kde-chiap or kS-tsiap, brine of pickled fish), a sauce or relish prepared principally from the juice of mushrooms and of many other species of edible fungi, salted for preservation and variously spiced. The juices of various fruits, such as cucumbers,, tomatoes, and especially green walnuts, are used as a basis of ketchup, and shell-fish ketchup, from oysters, mussels and cockles, is also made; but in general the term is restricted to sauces having the juice of edible fungi as their basis. |
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===The Japanese Wikipedia=== |
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http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%B1%E3%83%81%E3%83%A3%E3%83%83%E3%83%97 |
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: ケチャップの語源は、福建語の「鮭汁 kechiap」であると考えられる。 |
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The origin of "ketchup" was Fujian dialect's "鮭汁" (kechiap). |
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* 鮭: salmon in both Japanese and Chinese. |
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* 汁: juice in Chinese; soup in Japanese. |
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* Fujian (福建): the Province where Amoy City (廈門) is. |
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: この場合の「鮭」は「塩辛」を指す方言字で、サーモンとは無関係。 |
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In this case, "鮭" (salmon) does not mean salmon. It means salted food in that dialect. |
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I am not sure. I do not speak Amoy dialect. |
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: 「鮭汁」は小魚に塩を加えて煮てから発酵させ、濾過して取れるアミノ酸を豊富に含んだ液体、 |
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" 'Salmon' juice" is the juice made from fish cooked in salty walter, fermented, and then filtered. It's a juice rich in amino acids. |
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: すなわちタイのナンプラー、ベトナムのニョクマム、秋田のしょっつるの様な魚醤である。 |
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Other related products in Vietnam and Japan. |
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: これがマレー半島に伝わって「kichap」と呼ばれ |
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In the Malay peninsula, they called it "kichap". |
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===Another Japanese theory=== |
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http://gogensanpo.hp.infoseek.co.jp/main1.html |
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: ケチャップ |
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Ketchup |
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: 現在のケチャップです2003 年1月11日のNHK「ラジオ深夜便」で、リンボウ先生こと林望さんが、「ケチャップの語源は中国語の『茄汁』のようだ」とおっしゃっていました。おお、そうなのか、知らなかった！確かに中国語でトマトのことを「番茄」（ファンチエ）と言うぞ。中国語の「番茄の汁」がケチャップになったとしたら、ぴったりだ。ということで調べてみました。 |
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According to Mr. Ling Wang (林望) (January 11, 2003, [[NHK]]), ketchup seems to have been "茄汁" (tomato juice) in Chinese. |
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* 茄: Chinese: eggplant; aubergine |
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* 蕃茄: Chinese: tomato (lit. babarian's eggplant) |
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* 番茄の汁: Japanese: tomato juice |
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: 『ランダムハウス英和大辞典第2版』（小学館、1994年）には、英語のketchupの語源はマレー語であり、その語源はさらに中国語の広東方言か廈門方言にさかのぼる。その単語は中国語（共通語）の「茄」＋「汁」と同根である、と書いてありました。 |
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Randomhouse English-Japanese Dictionary 2nd edition (Shogakukan Inc., 1994): "茄汁" (tomato juice). |
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: 『世界大百科事典』（平凡社）の「ケチャップ」の項目（平野裕一郎執筆）には、「東南アジアから中国南部にかけての地域で古くから調味に用いられてきた塩蔵魚貝類の浸出液に起源を持つもののようで、中国福建省廈門周辺ではこうした魚醤をケチャップ（koe-chap）と呼ぶところがあり、類語は各地にあった。これが伝わったものか、18～19世紀のイギリスの料理書には、牡蠣、マッシュルーム、クルミ、キュウリのほか、魚や漿果類に食塩、酒、香辛料などを配した各種のケチャップが記載されている」、と書いてありました。 |
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The World Encyclopedic Dictionary (Heibonsha Publishers Ltd.): fish sauce. |
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: 昔はいろんなケチャップがあったけれど、いまではケチャップと言えばトマトで作ったケチャップを指すようになったようです。魚醤に起源を持つとなるとケチャップの語源が「茄汁」であるというのは、ちょっとあやしくなります。 |
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"茄汁" (tomato juice) becomes less convincing. |
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: 『オックスフォード・イングリッシュ・ディクショナリー（OED）第2版』には、英語のketchupの語源は中国語廈門方言のkoechiapあるいはke-tsiap（塩漬けにした魚介類の汁）である。マレー語のkechapはおそらく中国語に由来する、と書いてあります。 |
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OED: fish sauce (see previous explaination). |
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: 周長楫編『廈門方言詞典』（江蘇教育出版社、1998年）を調べると、「【月＋奚】」（発音をかなで書けばクエ）という語が載っていました。そしてその意味は「塩漬けにした水産品」です。廈門方言と台湾語はどちらも中国語の閩南方言に属し、非常に近い関係にあります。そこで台湾語の辞書も調べてみました。 |
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Zhou's (周長楫) Amoy Dialect Dictionary (Jiangsu Educational Press, 1988): pickled sea foods. |
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: 台湾総督府編『台湾語大辞典』（国書刊行会、原本1931年）に「コエ鮭」（小魚や蝦などを塩に漬けたもの。塩辛）という単語とともに、「コエチァプ 鮭汁」（肴に塩したとき出る汁）という単語が載っていました。 |
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Taiwan's dialect is similar to Amoy's. |
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Taiwan Dialect Dictionary (1931, published by the pre-WW II Japanese occupation government): "鮭汁" ('salmon' juice). |
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: OEDによれば、英語のketchupの初出は1711年です。そのころ廈門はまだ貿易港としては発展していません。当時の福建省南部で貿易港として栄えていたのは彰州です。彰州の言葉も廈門と同じ閩南方言です。でも廈門と少し発音が異なるところがあるようです。東方孝義編『台日新辞書』（台湾警察協会、1931年）によると、廈門の「コエ」は彰州の「ケ」に対応するのだそうです。もしそうなら彰州では「鮭汁」を「ケチャップ」と発音するはずです。英語のketchupにより近くなります。 |
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Author's theory: |
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* Amoy was not an international harbor in 1711 (OED's first instance); another harbor "彰州" was. |
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** Amoy dialect: "''ko-i''" |
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** 彰州 dialect: "''ke''" |
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* English: ''ke''chup |
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: 『ランダムハウス』では英語のketchupの直接の語源はマレー語だとしていました。武富正一著『馬来語大辞典』（欧文社、1942年）を調べると、確かに「kechap」（ただしkechapのeは日本語のエではなくウに近い音）という単語が載っていました。その意味は「醤油、ソース」で、そして「中華語の転訛したる語」と書いてあります。どうもマレー語のkechapはもともと魚醤の意味だったものが、醤油に変化したようです。さて、英語の ketchupの直接の語源はマレー語でしょうか、それとも中国語でしょうか？中国語の閩南方言だと考えて不都合はないと思われるので、ここでは中国語であるとしておきます。 |
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More about the Malay word. Too tired to translate this paragraph. |
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: 結論：中国語閩南方言「鮭汁（コエチャップ）」→ 英語「ketchup」→ 日本語「ケチャップ」。(2003.2.4) |
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Conclusion: Chinese dialect 鮭汁 -> English "ketchup" -> Japanese "ケチャップ" (ke-chia-pu) (February 4, 2003) |
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=== My opinion === |
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As a native Chinese speaker, I always use "魚" (''yu'', please use French pronounciation) to describe "fish". "鮭" is only used for "salmon" (鮭魚). Personally, I think both theories are somewhat fishy. The usage of "鮭" in Taiwanese, as far as I know, is also very restricted. -- [[User:Toytoy|Toytoy]] 02:54, Aug 25, 2004 (UTC) |
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=== In Cantonese === |
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* "茄"(short for tomato)http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/ke4.wav |
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* "汁"(sauce) http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/zap1.wav |
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* Search for more cantonese characters here: http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton2/ |
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In the 19th century most of the immigrants from china to the USA spoke cantonese. --[[User:Nik nah|Nik nah]] 08:19, 15 January 2007 (UTC) |
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=== Malay === |
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I'm no expert, but Merriam-Webster cites the origin as Malay, so I've added that to the article with a citation. --[[User:GentlemanGhost|GentlemanGhost]] ([[User talk:GentlemanGhost|talk]]) 23:26, 11 December 2007 (UTC) |
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There aren't any contradicting theories here. The Malay word comes from Chinese and this is agreed upon by ALL Malay etymologists. [[User:Morinae|Morinae]] ([[User talk:Morinae|talk]]) 09:44, 13 May 2008 (UTC) |
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== Bottling == |
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There really should be a section on bottling, such as when the modern glass and squeeze bottles were introduced and by whom and the like. I'd really like to know who to glare at for keeping glass bottles around :P. Really, glass ketchup bottles are a nuisance. We should boycott them. --[[User:Zeromaru|Zeromaru]] 19:23, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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:There is another technique for getting ketchup and similar (or merely thick enough) liquids out of bottles: contents must get near the opening before bottle is opened. This may involve keeping the bottle upsidedown (especially as some bottles are designed for that) or even hitting its cap while holding upsidedown. [[User:Saimhe|saimhe]] 12:10, 28 September 2006 (UTC) |
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No, plastic bottles are an abomination. We should shoot their inventor into the sun. Glass bottles forever!!![[User:Dogface|Dogface]] 19:25, 10 August 2006 (UTC) |
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==Mushrooms!== |
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It's natural that the article should concentrate on tomato ketchup, given it's prominence, but I feel there should be more mention/discussion of mushroom ketchup, as it is a prominent condiment, and to a prominent ketchup. 23:17, 11 December 2005 (UTC) |
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:Yes, indeed. I believe that for non-English speakers the word "ketchup" may exclusively associate with tomatoes -- for example, I always wondered why ketchup is mentioned in ''Gathering Mushrooms'' by Clannad. [[User:Saimhe|saimhe]] 12:10, 28 September 2006 (UTC) |
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==Sugar== |
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There is no mention of the very high sugar content of ketchup, nor of how much of an impact this has in the condiment's overall "flavor profile".[[User:Dogface|Dogface]] 11:29, 10 August 2006 (UTC) |
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==Is there any non-Heinz picture to put here ?!== |
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How come we have only pictures of Heinz products. There are other brands aren't they ? |
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== Irrelevance == |
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"Heinz have also stated that their iconic labels, attached to all their products "are printed by a label printer, the labels are printed in large batches at any one time"." |
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Unlike every other product in the world, whose labels are hand-drawn? What the hey is this piece of dubious (and incomprehensible) trivia doing in the Ketchup article? I'm deleting it, restore it if you can explain its relevance to ketchup or in fact anything at all. [[User:Unigolyn|Unigolyn]] 00:08, 5 October 2006 (UTC) |
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==Red sauce/red gravy?== |
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Changed the intro which claims these terms are used "interchangeably" with tomato sauce in various countries. Certainly not the case in Australia where tomato sauce is the primary name, nor in New Zealand to my knowledge. If this is not accurate and all three terms are used in some countries, Australia at least should be deleted from this list. |
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[[User:Fauxvegan|Fauxvegan]] 08:44, 12 December 2006 (UTC) |
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In New Zealand, at least, "red sauce" is unheard of, "ketchup" is the American, sweeter (yes? or some sort of difference) kind, the sort you get in those little sachets in McDonalds. And not many other places. "Tomato sauce" is by far the most common term and item, and it's certainly not interchangeable with ketchup, or any of the others - they're definitely recognised as two different (but related, in that they're both made from tomatoes and have similar purposes) products. "Catsup" I'd never even heard until I saw it on The Simpsons, or "red sauce" until I saw it on some British sitcom where I'm sure it was some sort of affectation I didn't get. That section could definitely be clearer. |
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Actually, this whole article is pretty poorly put together, with vague generalisations and Americocentricity. It could do with a tidy-up or a rewrite. [[User:210.54.98.215|210.54.98.215]] 08:44, 15 January 2007 (UTC) |
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== Bitter? How? == |
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The article claims that tomato ketchup includes all five basic tastes. It clearly has ingredients for salt, sweet (sugar), sour (vinegar), and savory (tomato). None of the other ingredients are bitter, and I'm not sure whether it's even possible to have sour (acid) and bitter (alkali) tastes together in a blended product. One of the two should convert to salt upon mixing. [[User:Bradd|Bradd]] 15:01, 27 December 2006 (UTC) |
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Hm, I found this in the article at gladwell.com, reporting the results of a formal taste test: "For Heinz, the critical flavor components—vinegar, salt, tomato I.D. (over-all tomato-ness), sweet, and bitter—were judged to be present in roughly equal concentrations, and those elements, in turn, were judged to be well blended." That would support the claims of all five flavors, in balance. Still, I'm suspicious, partly because the chemistry of it doesn't make sense, partly because ketchup doesn't taste bitter at all to me personally. (And why would you want it to taste bitter? Bitterness is nigh-universally unpleasant.) [[User:Bradd|Bradd]] 15:21, 27 December 2006 (UTC) |
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::Is that why so many people drink coffee?[[Special:Contributions/92.0.125.201|92.0.125.201]] ([[User talk:92.0.125.201|talk]]) 00:23, 31 May 2008 (UTC)Lance Tyrell |
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== Urban Legend? == |
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Is there any truth to something i heard. It didn't seem to mention it in the article. Was Ketchup was sold in the 1830s as medicine? [[User:203.222.110.46|203.222.110.46]] 06:44, 2 February 2007 (UTC) |
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: No, of course not! It was a well-known sauce used with food. And it was something one made at home, not something one bought from a snake oil salesman. And almost the defining characteristic of patent medicines was the weird names their makers gave them, so as to stand out in people's minds. Sorry, this makes no sense. [[User:Zsero|Zsero]] 07:57, 2 February 2007 (UTC) |
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== Cold ketchup... Grosser than Gross == |
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My wife and I constantly fight over whether or not to put Ketchup in the fridge. I hate cold ketchup, she loves driving my crazy; is there any actually evidence I can throw at her for why we should not put this culinary life blood in the refrigerator? |
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Thanks, <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/216.174.25.7|216.174.25.7]] ([[User talk:216.174.25.7|talk]]) 18:23, 5 February 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned --> |
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:Is botcholism a good enough reason for you? <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/207.69.137.24|207.69.137.24]] ([[User talk:207.69.137.24|talk]]) 14:15, 4 March 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned --> |
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:Does "refrigerate after opening" mean anything to you? [[User:76.204.78.109|76.204.78.109]] 03:30, 24 April 2007 (UTC) |
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== NO MENTION OF BANANA KETCHUP == |
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I have to say that this is the most incomplete factoid about ketchups I know. What about the Banana Ketchup? where did it originate? <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/61.9.74.10|61.9.74.10]] ([[User talk:61.9.74.10|talk]]) 17:34, 21 February 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned --> |
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== Ketchup/Catsup == |
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Is it me or is there a difference between ketchup and catsup? |
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I am utterly convinced that there is, as is my friend? can any one enlighten us? [[User:Philipbembridge|philb]] 15:29, 23 March 2007 (UTC) |
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: It's you. "Catsup" is just a different spelling of the same word. It's pronounced "ketchup". [[User:Zsero|Zsero]] 16:41, 23 March 2007 (UTC) |
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:: Thanks! :-) [[User:Philipbembridge|philb]] 09:02, 24 March 2007 (UTC) |
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This section should be removed from the article entirely. There is no discussion in it as to the origin of the different spellings, and it is little more than a list of television shows that make mention of it. It is not notable, and has no place in an encyclopedic entry. Perhaps some of the references could be merged elsewhere in the article, but it cannot remain in its current form. [[Wikipedia:Trivia_sections| Wikipedia Policy on trivia sections]] (the purvey of which this falls under) are quite clear that they are to be avoided. Since this section adds nothing to the article or the examination of the phenomena to which the section is dedicated other than some references to The Simpsons or the King of the Hill, it does not meet notability guidelines, and I have removed it.--[[User:Walkeraj|Walkeraj]] ([[User talk:Walkeraj|talk]]) 04:42, 28 August 2008 (UTC) |
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: On the contrary, it is the exact opposite of a trivia section. "Trivia" is not just another word for "pop culture". Rather than a collection of unrelated facts that's bound to keep growing, it's a representative sample of significant examples of a notable aspect of the article's subject. It is an undisputed fact that both spellings exist in the USA, and are equally well-known, and this causes enough confusion to have generated all these pop culture references. The list was edited down about six months ago IIRC; if every mention of the confusion were included it would be much longer. It is in fact "a selectively populated list with a relatively narrow theme", which the very guideline you refer to excludes from its scope. |
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:As for your complaint that there's no analysis, feel free to add some, but beware of OR. -- [[User:Zsero|Zsero]] ([[User talk:Zsero|talk]]) 05:56, 28 August 2008 (UTC) |
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::I respectfully disagree. While you're correct that trivia is not always synonymous with pop culture, what enrichment does this bring to the article? Absolutely none. It is, by definition, entirely trivial. Sections like this can (and have become) a problem on Wikipedia. People want to contribute something, but lack the expertise and sources/data to give actual analysis or do research, so they find (or create) a trivia section and fill it with lists of references in cartoons, songs or television shows (check the trivia section history for [[Zippo]], it's abysmal). Yes, both spellings exist in the USA. This is a fact to be noted. The episodes of the Simpsons or the King of the Hill it has appeared in, along with relevant lines delivered by Bart Simpson and Cotton Hill, are not relevant to this phenomena. They are cultural reflections on it and perhaps there is a place for them, but it is not in the Main Body of the article. Put another way, do you think it would be tolerated if you were to edit [[Wikipedia:Trivia sections]] and add a reference to [http://xkcd.com/446/ this XKCD comic]? "Original Research" is a similar problem with a more insidious result, as you are no doubt keenly aware. Since I am not in possession of expertise or sources in [[etymology]], I will not (and ''should'' not) perform this kind of research. On the whole, it is far more appropriate to note the differences in spelling, use an <nowiki>{{expandsection}}</nowiki> tag, and move the specifics to the discussion page or elsewhere. --[[User:Walkeraj|Walkeraj]] ([[User talk:Walkeraj|talk]]) 14:57, 28 August 2008 (UTC) |
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::On a related note, I often think that Wikipedia would do well to add a separate "meta-cultural" tab to contain just this sort of data. That way, people could feel free to fill it with references in our culture, thus more fully fleshing out the living ideas related to the subject for others and for posterity, while simultaneously keeping the kernel of the article clean and simple. --[[User:Walkeraj|Walkeraj]] ([[User talk:Walkeraj|talk]]) 14:57, 28 August 2008 (UTC) |
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::: I'm sorry, but calling it "trivial" sounds to me exactly like IDONTLIKEIT. The selected examples from pop culture don't simply mention the spelling difference in passing but are ''about'' it, and are culled from a much longer list. They show that this confusion is common enough, and well-enough known, to be the subject of such treatments. And you keep calling for research, which is exactly what we ''don't'' want. As for etymology, it will be of no use, since both versions have the same etymology; they are simply different people's notions of how to set the word down in writing. I'm going to hold off on restoring it for a while, to give other people a chance to give their opinions, but if you remain the only objector then I will restore it. -- [[User:Zsero|Zsero]] ([[User talk:Zsero|talk]]) 21:27, 28 August 2008 (UTC) |
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:::: While this ''is'' an article about Ketchup, I think that there is a point to be made here ''somewhere'' and that the back-and-forth editing should stop. I think that a [[Wikipedia:third_opinion|third opinion]] is necessary at this juncture as you seem rather set in your opinion and I in mine. What do you think? [[User:Walkeraj |∴<font color="#618033">Wa</font><font color="#988749">lk</font><font color="#894848">er</font><font color="#204586">aj</font>]] <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment was added at 21:43, 28 August 2008 (UTC)</small><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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::::: That's what the talk page is for. Let's see if anyone else chimes in. I will point out, though, that the section has had multiple "third opinions" in the past, in the form of all the people who edited and commented on it. -- [[User:Zsero|Zsero]] ([[User talk:Zsero|talk]]) 21:55, 28 August 2008 (UTC) |
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:::::: To be sure, but I was not using a <s>double entendre</s>play on words. I was literally referring to the official "third opinion" page, which is for the case when no one does chime in. So, let's say, give it a couple of days and if neither of us have changed our minds, we can make the official [[Wikipedia:third_opinion|third opinion]] request and get some eyes on it before any further editing occurs. Or, since my edit is the one that currently stands, I could change it back now in good faith. What do you think? [[User:Walkeraj |∴<font color="#618033">Wa</font><font color="#988749">lk</font><font color="#894848">er</font><font color="#204586">aj</font>]] 22:27, 28 August 2008 (UTC) |
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::::::I tend to agree with Walkeraj. Without any analysis this listing is unencyclopedic and inappropriate to the article. It fails to enlighten the reader in any meaningful way. -- [[User_Talk:SiobhanHansa|SiobhanHansa]] 00:54, 29 August 2008 (UTC) |
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== FALSE AND MISLEADING IN ALL RESPECTS == |
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The article is a great description of ORGANIC ketchup but not much else. All brands except organic now use high fructose corn syrup, an incredibly unhealthy new additive which is causing all kinds of health problems including obesity. If this page is not corrrected it is a total lie, a heinz shill, and against the best interests of the real truth and its readers. |
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: Can you point me in the direction of a source of this information, it appears to be just your oppinion, but i will check it out :-) [[User:Philipbembridge|philb]] 16:27, 20 April 2007 (UTC) |
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: I certainly wouldn't call this article shill or "false and misleading in all respects", but the prior poster is correct in saying that commercial non-organic ketchups contain high-fructose corn syrup. I just did a quick check of the ingredient list of the two leading American brands, and they both contain the ingredient. Can't comment on claims that an ingredient is the cause of obesity, and that seems to be a rather multifactorial situation that would not be suddenly corrected by the elimination of all high-fructose corn syrup[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity 1].[[User:72.144.198.140|72.144.198.140]] 16:14, 10 June 2007 (UTC) |
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== Ketchup originally a drink? == |
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I can't recall where I heard this but I've believed it for so long. Was ketchup originally sold as a drink? I tried googling the info but can't find anything. Does anyone know if this is true? <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/71.107.15.166|71.107.15.166]] ([[User talk:71.107.15.166|talk]]) 19:53, 11 May 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned --> |
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== Distribution == |
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I believe it might be a good idea to include where ketchup is sold and of what brands. I know that coloured ketchup wasn't sold in Canada at first (but don't know about now) because distributors didn't think Canadian consumers would buy it [[User:Canking|Canking]] 00:57, 24 July 2007 (UTC) |
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==world's largest ketchup packet== |
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[http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/O/ODD_LARGEST_KETCHUP_PACKET?SITE=KFWB&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT This article] might be interesting to editors. [[User:Derek.cashman|Dr. Cash]] 03:48, 30 July 2007 (UTC) |
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== Kitchencaravan link == |
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Sorry to have used such an non-descriptive edit summary when I first removed the link. The detailed reason I removed it was because it was added by an IP address whose only edits are to add links to that domain to this and other articles. I recalled previously seeing other IPs do the same with that domain (though I've been looking for the diffs to write this up and can't find them) which pretty much makes our definition of [[WP:SPAM#how not to be a spammer|spamming]]. I try not to use the word spam in my edit summaries if an editor hasn't been warned about it as many don't realize such activity is defined that way and it leads to bad feeling, plus there's always a possibility I'm wrong. Anyway, that was the reason for the original removal. It wasn't meant to stop regular editors deciding on what is good encyclopedic content, just stop a random IP from promoting a site throughout our articles. |
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The link does fall foul of the [[WP:EL|external links guideline's]] requirement for a link to be a unique resource since there is already a recipe link on the page. Some editors consider recipe links to be outright unencyclopedic. That's not my stance, I think a particularly classic or well known recipe can be appropriate but that recipe sections for links to editors' favorite recipes can be problematic. But I don't regularly edit this article and it looks like it's in pretty good shape, so this is just fodder for the rest of you to consider. -- [[User_Talk:SiobhanHansa|SiobhanHansa]] 21:46, 17 August 2007 (UTC) |
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: I don't think two recipes are excessive. The two are very different, and together give a better idea of the wide variety of ketchups. I wouldn't object to as many as four recipes, if they were different enough from each other; beyond that it would start to look like a link farm. I'm going to leave it alone for a day or so, but after that if nobody raises a substantive objection I'm going to restore the link. [[User:Zsero|Zsero]] 22:09, 17 August 2007 (UTC) |
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::Something to consider if you want more recipes: Our sister project, Wikibooks, has [[b:Cookbook:Ketchup|an entry]] in the cookbook's [[b:Cookbook:Sauces#Tomato-based_sauces|tomato based sauces section]] -- [[User_Talk:SiobhanHansa|SiobhanHansa]] 00:37, 18 August 2007 (UTC) |
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== Early origins == |
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This section seems to contradict itself over whether ketchup was originally made from tomatoes: |
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'first half of the word means "tomato" ' [[User:HairyDan|HairyDan]] 12:04, 23 August 2007 (UTC) |
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Tomato is so fundamental to ketchup that I am not so sure about anything not made from tomato as being its early origin. I may be wrong, though. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Mountolive|Mountolive]] ([[User talk:Mountolive|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mountolive|contribs]]) 23:49, 27 February 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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: You are wrong. Tomatoes may be fundamental to ketchup ''today'', but it wasn't so until the 20th century, and we still have such things as mushroom ketchup and banana ketchup. -- [[User:Zsero|Zsero]] ([[User talk:Zsero|talk]]) 00:38, 28 February 2008 (UTC) |
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== Southern U.S. barbecue sauce == |
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Coming from a region in the southern United States which prides itself on barbecue competitions, I certainly have not seen all barbecue sauces, as they are usually proprietary family secrets, but most of the sauces I've encountered either use vinegar or true tomato paste rather than ketchup as the base ingredient. However, on the flip side of the coin, in the many meatloaves I've encountered in this region individuals have used ketchup rather than tomato paste as the primary sauce/glaze. [[User:12.168.178.251|12.168.178.251]] 02:07, 30 August 2007 (UTC) |
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I am also from the southern states and I agree with the above statement, I have only seldom seen catsup as a barbecue sauce base. In most, if not all of the meatloaves my family and friends have made used catsup. [[User:Dylpickleh8|Dylpickleh8]] ([[User talk:Dylpickleh8|talk]]) 20:36, 8 September 2008 (UTC) |
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== Lycopene hallucinogen? == |
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Removed this line: Although proven to significantly decrease cancer risks, it also has a highly addictive and hallucinogenic effect if ingested in large quantities. |
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No source, and I couldn't find one. Seems designed to make dumb teenagers eat large quantities of ketchup in search of a high. |
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[[Special:Contributions/71.185.189.130|71.185.189.130]] ([[User talk:71.185.189.130|talk]]) 05:48, 17 July 2008 (UTC) |
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== Common sense == |
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Well, the Wikipedia is by far something different from what the original intent is and with all this happy "everyone can edit" things are getting out of hand with marketers. |
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In this particular case, it is one thing to have an illustration of a product (say a bowl of ketchup or some fries adorned with this sauce) and a totally different thing to publish the label of a producer as a "good example". |
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Fellow wikipedians - guard this article and the others like it if you still wish to have an encyclopedia and not just some other Yellow Pages advert book! [[Special:Contributions/93.126.136.39|93.126.136.39]] ([[User talk:93.126.136.39|talk]]) 19:20, 17 August 2008 (UTC) |
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:If the image had been pushed by marketers I would think it would be a rather better photo. Using an image of brand that is iconic for ketchup (which is not the same thing at all as saying it is a good ketchup) is not allowing marketers to get out of hand. There is nothing about Wikipedia that was ever about denying the existence or impact of commercial organizations. It's about making knowledge freely available - which will often include information about commercial organizations where appropriate. I don't think the image of a Heinz ketchup bottle damages this article - for many people it's pretty much the only Ketchup they've ever had. -- [[User_Talk:SiobhanHansa|SiobhanHansa]] 20:04, 17 August 2008 (UTC) |
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::Pick a photo from the back of the product where the brand is less visible if you imply that the users are too dumb to apreciate something like a bowl of the product as opposed to the copywrighted bottle. Or at least blur the brand and they will recognise it. [[Special:Contributions/93.126.136.39|93.126.136.39]] ([[User talk:93.126.136.39|talk]]) 10:25, 19 August 2008 (UTC) |
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:::I was implying the point of the photo was to show an iconic brand - so using the back of the bottle or blurring the the brand would be a bit pointless. -- [[User_Talk:SiobhanHansa|SiobhanHansa]] 11:20, 19 August 2008 (UTC) |
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Think of something along the lines of [[http://www.flickr.com/photos/dsnet/27001947/sizes/m/]] before putting that advert again. [[Special:Contributions/93.126.136.39|93.126.136.39]] ([[User talk:93.126.136.39|talk]]) 10:49, 19 August 2008 (UTC) |
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:A similar type of photo might be another good addition but it doesn't mean we shouldn't have the Heinz photo too (my personal favorite currently on the page is the hotdog one). However since the actual photo you suggest does not have the free licensing required by Wikipedia it's not particularly useful. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with Wikipedia's purpose and policies a little more. You seem to be under some false ideas about it. -- [[User_Talk:SiobhanHansa|SiobhanHansa]] 11:20, 19 August 2008 (UTC) |
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== Viscosity == |
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The "viscosity" section has no references at all and, I would say, no interest, either. It needs serious editing, specially when it comes to the "best techniques" part, which I find totally unnecessary and in poor style. [[Special:Contributions/24.205.74.8|24.205.74.8]] ([[User talk:24.205.74.8|talk]]) 07:53, 22 August 2008 (UTC) |
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I think it's hilarious. [[Special:Contributions/82.14.195.112|82.14.195.112]] ([[User talk:82.14.195.112|talk]]) 13:57, 11 October 2008 (UTC) |
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Revision as of 13:59, 11 October 2008
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2006: 1 |
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Admin
Hey. I see you a lot at Wikipedia:Requested moves, though I don't really do anything there myself, and was quite shocked to see you weren't an admin. I'd like to nominate you for adminship at WP:RFA if you're interested; let me know. Wizardman 19:41, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
- As you are, I believe, the third such person to make a similar comment in as many months, I will take the offer under serious consideration. However, it should be noted - I do much more cleanup/"admin"-related stuff than I do actual content writing, so I suspect that may be an issue (I lurk once or twice a week in the WP:RFA realm, and know how that goes...). Give me maybe 48 hours or so to ponder. :) JPG-GR (talk) 20:38, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
- Alright. It's been 48 hours and I'm still impressed with your contribs. So how about it? :) Wizardman 16:17, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
- Sure, why not? What could be the harm. A request though - can we not start the official process until Sunday? I'm on vacation next week (which means away from work, not away from home) and I should have a more "regular" availability to answer questions/take a beating. ^_^ JPG-GR (talk) 16:26, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
- That's not a problem. I'll be on sparingly until Sunday myself, so I'll write up the nom, you just get to the questions when you're ready. Wizardman 18:46, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
- Sure, why not? What could be the harm. A request though - can we not start the official process until Sunday? I'm on vacation next week (which means away from work, not away from home) and I should have a more "regular" availability to answer questions/take a beating. ^_^ JPG-GR (talk) 16:26, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
- Alright. It's been 48 hours and I'm still impressed with your contribs. So how about it? :) Wizardman 16:17, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
Airstaff Schedules and other things
Alright, I am tired of you guys deleting airstaff lineups and past personalities section of radio station pages, ESPECIALLY YOU!. I am fed up with every single time i go and edit something you got to go and take it off. For example, back in August on the WYCD, WDTW-FM, WKQI and KBWF pages i put a past personalities page on it, somethig historical about the stations history of jocks, but do you keep it up, no. I read something on here that said it is fine if it is historical or something like that, But you still take it off. I dont give a damn if wikipedia allows it, it should be up there. As for radio station lineups being on the page, i think they should. it is stupid to not have them on. As i have said many times before. THE DJ'S ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF A RADIO STATION, WHETHER THEY ARE FROM THE PAST OR PRESENT. but you just don't get it do you. Keep these lineups up on wikipedia. i see no reason as to why they can not be on. And don't give me that crap that it is because of promoting a station. IT IS NOT. you are just listing who works at the station. It is no diffrent than listing TV shows on the tv channel pages. and they seem to allow that. Besides if these were up. it would be great for certain people who want to look ata stations past and that also means past DJ's. To top it all off. i saw you deleted the station ratings section on KBWF, for what frickin' reason, what excuse can you come up with now. I have had those up on pages for well over a year, almost two and your, for some reason taking them down! I have had it with you and all the other people taking off stuff, that could be very useful to a radio page. What is the point of having anyone come in and add things to a page, when they are just gonna be deleted by you!
Joemam993(Talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 21:51, 7 October 2008 (UTC).
- WP:NOT#DIR. JPG-GR (talk) 22:15, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
My request was complete according to instructions.
The instructions at WP:RM#Requesting potentially controversial moves clearly do not mandate its use. If administrators view it as mandatory, the wording should be changed.
I have used the template per your request however.
--Rogerb67 (talk) 22:51, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
Err, use of {{subst:RMtalk|NewName|reason for move}} that is. Sorry about the tone of my first response; I was a bit miffed because I had tried very hard (and in fact succeeded as far as I can see from the instructions actually presented to first-time requesters) to do this right. Can I move my proposal back down now or is it stuck in "incomplete" limbo for whatever time period? --Rogerb67 (talk) 23:06, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
hello JPG-GR
Please remove my request comment under the Incomplete and Contested Proposals. I am requesting a full move for the List of Canadians of Asian ancestry Article. I have posted my request in the Other Proposals. Sonic99 (talk) 02:28, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
- JPG-GR, I want to a post a notice about the Discussion to support or oppose the full move at the top of the List of Canadians of Asian ancestry Article, so every editor can see it. Can you please tell me what I should add at the top of the article? Sonic99 (talk) 04:20, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
Tell me How to report vandalism
Tell me how to report vandalism. I don't like what User: Joemama993 said on my talk page. I'm trying to work with him, but he's not (paticent/misspelled) or something. Need to report him. You can go to my talk page to see what he said for yourself, if you want to report him for that. Just wanted to let you know.--JoeCool950 (talk) 02:37, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
- Short of requesting that he not post on your talk page, there's not much official you can do until he starts violating policies. JPG-GR (talk) 03:09, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
Could I put that edit in on WP WPRS for introductions
I was wondering if I could put that edit in then under introductions, so that it would be considered o.k.?--JoeCool950 (talk) 06:03, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
Radio
I do apoligize for the stuff I said about wikipedia and you, I just got mad about what you guys are doing to these pages, because it does take a long time to figure stuff out to put on these pages. In a very strange way it is almost like dectective work, trying to figure out where everything or in this case everyone goes. One thing though that stil don't get is, why are they taking down the stations prievious arbitron ratings. Maybe you could shed some light on this subject as to why they took it off of the WYCD page. Again I am sorry for what I wrote before. I was just pretty upset about this. No hard feelings?
Thanks Again
Joemam993 (Talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 19:43, 8 October 2008 (UTC).
- WP:COPYVIO. JPG-GR (talk) 05:48, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
Stations Ratings Question
I got a message from someone who said that if you put the ratigs into prose, it would be accepted. Now i know we can't have a list like it was prievoisly like, but how would you write it into prose.
Would you write it like this
Summer 2008 Phase II Arbitron Rating: #1 (5.2)
Is it okay to write it like that, i really have no idea
Thanks and again I do apoligize for what i said a few days ago
Joemam993 (Talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 19:38, 9 October 2008 (UTC).
- WP:COPYVIO. JPG-GR (talk) 19:46, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
KLHV vs KGCO
I'm not experienced enough on Wikipedia to revert your changes to the KLHV article, however KLHV is still in place in Fort Collins, according to the FCC database; and KGCO is still a station in Red Feather Lakes. See http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/fmq?call=KLHV and http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/fmq?call=KGCO —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.218.117.1 (talk) 01:30, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
- Not sure what happened there (around four months ago), but I've fixed it. JPG-GR (talk) 05:53, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
list of elements at wt:elements
If you wold still consider working on any of the lists let me know since I wanted to do the table but I lack the will to go do it just by myself. Nergaal (talk) 00:24, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
- Time is in short supply lately, but it's still on my (long) to-do list. JPG-GR (talk) 01:02, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
re: WP:RM
I am? I thought we only had 5 days up at a time. Thanks for letting me know, I won't do that anymore :) Parsecboy (talk) 04:24, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
I noticed that you classified the discussion of the requested move of Li romans d'Alixandre to Roman d'Alexandre as "no consensus". I am not sure that that is entirely accurate. While there is a comment by Srnec about the confusing nature of the topic (and discussion of the French wiki link topic), there are, in fact, no comments specifically against the requested move. The Roman d'Alexandre is a particularly specialized topic that isn't likely to get a lot of wiki visits, but (as I comment in the move request) all the critical works published today on the specific text this article covers (Bernay's compilation/composition) use "Roman d'Alexandre". Must the requested move really be tabled? If the French wikipage fr:Roman d'Alexandre directs in English to the general discussion of the whole of the Alexander Romance problem, do you think an article title like "Roman d'Alexandre (work)" might be used? Or perhaps we might rename the general title "Alexander Romance texts"? - NYArtsnWords (talk) 13:50, 11 October 2008 (UTC)