Wikipedia talk:Template index/User talk namespace

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Copyvio warnings

How about copyvio warnings? I'd really like to see {{nothanks}} and {{nothanks-sd}} (and other nothanks-* templates) integrated here, and also something that includes an after-the-fact notice of deletion (in vein of {{nn-warn-deletion}}). --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 16:39, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Me too -- that's exactly what I came to WP:WARN looking for. Unfortunately I didn't check this talk page before making up my own message. Are confident users welcome to add existing templates to WP:WARN, or should we leave it to experienced wikipedians/admins? - Fayenatic london (talk) 22:43, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I came here looking for something too. {{nothanks}} doesn't quite cut it though: it implies the whole article is a copyright violation. Something appropriate when reverting the addition of copyrighted content would be useful. —EncMstr 20:38, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Template broken

For those who don't have all the templates in their watchlists seems like test1 is broken see Template talk:Uw-test1. I know bugga all about the coding so if someone would step to the fore... Cheers ^Khukri 09:22, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

{{subst:uw-test1|subst=subst:}} does break the template. I'll check it further later. -- lucasbfr ^talk 09:41, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Ok, all templates (tested error, vand, test and creation) share the same issue. Oh God... I'll try to find what caused the problem (I thought it was a new issue but it seems to be around for a while) -- lucasbfr ^talk 09:49, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

The #if: statement is not working with the {{{subst|}}}. I don't know wiki syntax enough to see how to fix it. If some wiki guru could give a hand that would be great! I copied the test1 template to User:Lucasbfr/Sandbox if someone wants to perform some tests. -- lucasbfr ^talk 10:02, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm at work so can't use IRC, but see if Misza13 is around, he's fairly handy at this sort of stuff, I think Gracenote is asleep at the mo. ^Khukri 10:09, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Same no IRC here. I'll poke the vilage pump. I just discovered I might have given some broken warnings lately myself. -- lucasbfr ^talk 10:16, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Ok seems the bug is on Media wiki and there is not much we can do... Let's stop advertising the subst=subst: trick perhaps? -- lucasbfr ^talk 20:53, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

{Un-indent) is there anything we need to do to the templates? ^Khukri 21:00, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I've none this for a long time, and figured out the subst=subst: only works when the page parameter is used. If used, the template works fine. --TeckWiz ^ParlateContribs_@ 21:10, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I changed the templates help text (on Template:Singlenotice/inner and Template:Templatesnotice/inner) to reflect the bug. -- lucasbfr ^talk 09:40, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

This is an old bug, see bugzilla:5678 _→AzaToth 13:48, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Auto Archiving

Since Werdnabot is down indefinitely, I have requested that MiszaBot II archive this page when sections get 7 days old. I also requested that the bot automatically start a new archive after the archive reaches the size of 100K. --TeckWiz ^ParlateContribs_@ 21:21, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Good thinking batman. ^Khukri 21:33, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Templates not featured on this page

I encountered the following uw templates that aren't featured on this page, nor are any redirects:

• Template:uw-repost (redirect from Template:Repost-warn)
• Template:uw-pinfo (redirect from Template:Pinfo, Template:Pinfo4)

Perhaps they should be incorporated in some way. Oliphaunt 00:11, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Couple of things

I'm going to swap round the redirect the above template {{uw-AIV}} to {{uw-aiv}} keep it the same as the others so there are no capitals.

Also I'm going to create a {{uw-vblock}}, {{uw-dblock}} for user:Viridae that was brought up on the straw poll on WP:UW . ^Khukri 08:13, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

mention of templates in uw-deleteN

Should this series of templates warn people not to delete content or templates? Doesn't this just put ideas into vandals' heads? (ie we shouldn't mention blanking templates to people who've only thought of blanking article content, per WP:BEANS). Squiddy | (squirt ink?) 17:12, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Mmm... Do you have a specific example? I was thinking (not that I would dare thinking too much today) that we have {{uw-afd1}} and {{uw-speedy1}} for the few templates that shouldn't normally be removed. For the other templates, if it's clearly vandalism, I personally use the usual templates. -- lucasbfr ^talk 17:43, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

There's also the maintenance series, which is a good catchall category for other templates. Natalie 17:46, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I haven't made myself clear. The problem I thought of (and I admit I haven't seen an example) is where someone deletes content from an article, gets one of these warnings, and gets the idea to edit, blank or otherwise vandalise a template because that is mentioned in the warning text. Possibly I'm assuming more knowledge of how WP works than most blanking-vandals have, but the risk is higher because nonsense would then be included in any page which includes the vandalised template in un'subst'ed form. I just thought that removing the 'or templates' from the warning text would be good. Squiddy | (squirt ink?) 17:52, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I think most vandals don't have the slightest idea on how templates work to be honest. I would personally fall back on a high level of uw-vand, I think, since if someone edits a template he obviously has a good idea on how WP works (there is most of the time no link to templates). -- lucasbfr ^talk 18:06, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

You're probably right. I can't remember how long I edited until I edited a template, but it was definitely a few months. I'd wager that most newbie vandals wouldn't know how to find templates, and those who do probably already know where they are and that vandalising a template can do a lot of damage. Natalie 18:11, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

It's quite a common occurence in fact, hence the reason most of the templates are semi protected. The other common trick is the vandal in return posts the same warning on the orginal issuers page. If you'd issued for example a npov warning and it was a logged in edit who messed with the template, you would increment the level by one or two and give a vandalism warning. If they gave you a warning back again increment the level and leave a uw-tpv warning. There is a warning I saw a couple of months back but can't find it at the mo which was specfically for the false issuing of templates. Ho hum I digress. ^Khukri 21:36, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Shoudn't the uw-legal template be a single template?

I am quite puzzled by the {{uw-legal1}}, {{uw-legal2}}, {{uw-legal3}} templates to be honest. If I am correct the usual practice is that legal threats are a big no no in the Wikipedia community and that indef blocks are issued quite easily on these. I don't see the point in having 3 levels for these since a single offence can get you banned. What do you think? -- lucasbfr ^talk 17:48, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Dunno where they came from but shows you how much attention I pay. You are 100% right, this was one of two warning I had in mind from the early days as one strike n then you're out warning, {{uw-threat}} and {{uw-pinfo}}. You wanna do it or shall I? As was pointed out with copyvio this cannot be incremental. ^Khukri 21:18, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I created {{Uw-legal}}. I am going to bring the others to TfD later in the day. -- lucasbfr ^talk 09:39, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Please come by and voice your opinion there :) -- lucasbfr ^talk 09:56, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Question - uw for removing warnings?

Hi all,

Is there a warning for users who remove warnings from their own talk pages? Thanks,

--Searles2sels (PJ) 18:55, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

No, because there isn't consensus as to whether or not this constitutes vandalism. There are a few conversations about this above. Natalie 18:57, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I see. Thanks for the fast reply. --Searles2sels (PJ) 18:58, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

You can find more information about this on the FAQ if you want :) -- lucasbfr ^talk 09:20, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

There is a very clear consensus over several discussions on AN and ANI that removing warnings from your userpage does not constitute vandalism and that no action will be taken against a user for doing so. The comment that warnings are not supposed to be badges of shame gets used a lot as well. Its not specifically written down anywhere maybe would should add something.

Users who hav received warnings are free to remove them from their talk pages at any time. Such removal should be taken to mean that the user has read and understood the warning. Warnings are not intended as a badge of shame and remain in the page history. If necessary, a diff to the page history can be used to demonstrate that an appropriate warning has been issued.

?OK --Spartaz ^Humbug! 09:57, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Not sure about dedicating space on the front page for solely this issue. As time goes by hopefully it will pass into common knowledge that it isn't offence to remove warnings. For that reason User:Gracenotes has started a FAQ about these very issues and in my opinion we should just raise the prominence of this FAQ. A header along the lines of Before using these templates or asking question, please take 5 minutes to read through the guide/FAQ would I think suffice. It's my plan once the single issue templates are finished within WP:UW, to take the FAQ, the front page from that project and create the "Idiots guide to warning templates", which should be the final word on all these type of problems, without the need for focusing on a single issue. I know this subject is a pain, we've been fielding this type of question now for months, but hopefully with the end of WP:UW in sight, we shouldn't have to worry for too much longer. Cheers ^Khukri 13:23, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Its only a small para and there doesn't seem to be a place for people to look this up. A brief note on WP:WARN seems the ideal place to put it. There is absolutely a need for this.Spartaz ^Humbug! 14:54, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Just give it a couple of weeks until I/we can get the front page of this project sorted out after it's merged with WP:UW. There are some 400 odd templates in total and if we start putting exceptions on how the legal, pinfo, wr, to name a few work or don't work then this already full page will become a nightmare. Give us a couple of weeks and hopefully, we'll be able to put a more intuitive frontpage/instruction/FAQ into place. This warning removal problem's been around for a number of months now and won't change in a couple more weeks. Cheers ^Khukri 15:03, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

<deindent> OK. --Spartaz ^Humbug! 07:34, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

TfD

Just for info User:Carnildo has put {{uw-tpv1}}, {{uw-tpv2}}, {{uw-tpv3}} up for TfD. ^Khukri 09:10, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Erf... I would never have thought some people would use it as a "don't remove warnings" message... -- lucasbfr ^talk 09:18, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Me neither, but as per your TfD comment if there is the potential that it could be misconstrude then I think we should reword it to remove the ambiguity. ^Khukri 09:57, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

The templates are fine as they are right now - however, they can be reworded to be a bit more clear that it's unnecessary to proofread discussion pages and annoys other users. --Sigma 7 23:53, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Bot Substing of Templates

Hey guys! I just found out something very interesting today. Our new warning system is not substed by any bot! So, I've submitted a bot request here. A user suggested that I alert you guys to this (even though you all are probably quite happy about it). --TeckWiz ^ParlateContribs_@ 00:19, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Attack templates

Are {{attack}} and {{uw-racism}} really necessary with the {{uw-npa}} series? Attack isn't even listed on this page. Are there that many instances of racism that we need a template for it? Also, why do we have npa and uw-npa? Were {{npa2}}, {{npa3}}, and {{npa4}} supposed to be deleted when the uw templates were created? Mr.Z-mantalk¢Review! 02:13, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

At [{WP:UW]], we're currently discussing redirecting the old templates. I agree with you on the racism template. I was thinking the same thing today. The attack template and the old npa are all old, and we haven't decided what to do with them yet. --TeckWiz ^ParlateContribs_@ 02:27, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

There's been discussion of the attack template before and whether one of the new series can be modified to cover attack page creation situations. Currently NPA is geared towards attacks on other editors rather than at attack pages. I've been ambivalent, but I think maybe keeping {{attack}} as a single issue template is the best solution.--Kubigula (talk) 20:54, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Icons

-->

Should we replace the icons on the final and only warnings to better match the other icons used? Also what about increasing the size of the icons for every warning from smallest (vandalism 1) to largest (vandlaism 4)? Larger icons for the final warnings should help emphasize the severity of the issue. -- Hdt83 | Talk 04:44, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm inclined to think that that's a little too subtle. After all, it's really the words that count and maybe a warning image. bibliomaniac15 04:51, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Please see my comments at Usefulness of icons in warnings: another aspect, where I also ask about increasing icon size by seriousness of the warning. I don't know about 'subtle'. The icons are non-verbal, which helps a lot if the vandal is not an English reader. They are more likely to understand the icons than the changing text. Shenme 05:05, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Also, many people don't read instructions carefully or if the text is long they may just "skip over it". A larger icon helps people by showing them that they did something wrong and needs to stop. -- Hdt83 | Talk 05:15, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

The only problem I can think of with larger icons is that generally, the more severe the warning, the less text there is. The level 1 templates give a detailed explanation as to why the user is receiving the warning, but the level 4 templates just say: Stop or be blocked. If the level 4 template icons get too big, they will dominate the text. Or, if the level 1 icons get too small, they will be less prominent. And the text should be more important than the look. Mr.Z-mantalk¢Review! 17:20, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

I noticed you replaced the image on block 1 & 2, but the reason behind the original harmonisation was to try and keep things the same. I have no problems with the image at all, but if it is going to be changed then you need to change the other 30 or so level4 templates to the same image. On the image size, if you read through the histories (there is a fair bit of it though ;) ) the images were discussed at length. My thoughts and that of many of the other project members was that with the most commonly issued level 4 warnings i.e. vandalism, delete etc, was that could you put a flashing neon sign on them, and they would more as likely get ignored. IMHO there are three types of vandal, the newbie vandal who stops after one warning, those that like to push the limit and see how far they can go and stop when they get to 4, and those that just don't care. As Z-man stated above the level 4 warning is short and sweet, if there can be anyway that the community's intentions and message with this warning can be misconstrude, that could be changed by adding a larger icon, then I'd like to see it. There are alot of editors who do not like the images at the moment, for now I'd like to keep them reasonably discrete and then maybe re-examine the issue in a couple of months once the last part of WP:UW has finished and the waters have calmed a bit. ^Khukri 09:32, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Ok, don't worry, I am not going to change the icon sizes or anything. Maybe icons on the lv4 templates but thats all unless anybody objects. -- Hdt83 | Talk 22:26, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Is uw-selfrevert 'live' yet?

And moreover, can I make a redirect for Template:uw-selftest ? I feel so retro still using {{subst:selftest|YourMom}} Shenme 05:09, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes it is live but nope you can't redirect it yet. I'll be looking at that this week depending on the result here. Cheers ^Khukri 09:19, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I 'think' you misunderstood (but I might be misunderstanding :-) ). There is currently a Template:uw-selfrevert. But what I was wanting 'also' was a redirect from Template:uw-selftest to there. I understand there is discussion over possibly redirecting all the old names, like 'selftest', to new names. Rather, I'm just lazy and don't want to type the extra two characters, or think of that hard word 'revert'. Shenme 23:35, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

uw-english in other languages

Maybe uw-english should have a parameter to specify what language the message to be, that way a non-English speaker will know what we're saying. If they're not writing in English, they probably don't know it, so it makes no sense for it to be in English. I've put some basic text below for Spanish and Italian. Feel free to fix/add more languages --TeckWiz ^ParlateContribs_@ 16:51, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

• Spanish:Por favor hablas ingles a il Wikipedia ingles. Gracias.
• Italian:Boun giorno. Grazie per il tuo contibuto, ma per favor parli in inglese solo a il Wikipedia inglese.

This is only useful if the editor repairing the article knows what language it is they wrote in. Many Americans can recognize Spanish or French, but I know I would likely confuse Portuguese and Spanish (very similar), Russian and Bulgarian (both Cyrillic), etc. Maybe instead we could have the translations on a single page and a link within the warning. That also gives the advantage of new translations not requiring any template mods. — RevRagnarok ^{Talk Contrib} 18:45, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

How would they know to click the link to that page? --TeckWiz ^ParlateContribs_@ 20:20, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't really know, I was just throwing an idea out there. ;) Maybe small text along the bottom with bullets between with the 2 letter language abbreviations used elsewhere? — RevRagnarok ^{Talk Contrib} 20:59, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

The test1 wording on fr.wikipedia is:

Vous avez découvert combien il est facile de modifier Wikipédia. Votre modification a été annulée en raison de son caractère non constructif. Merci de ne pas réitérer ce genre de contribution. Visitez la page d’aide afin d’en apprendre plus ou le bac à sable afin de faire des tests.

Should we have a set of foreign language warnings just in case someone recognises the language used? WjBscribe 21:06, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Having the test1 wording wouldn't help. We want to tell them to use English, not to not vandalise in French. --TeckWiz ^ParlateContribs_@ 21:08, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

English styles

Should the user warnings about changing English styles ({{lang0}}, {{lang1}}, {{lang2}}, {{lang3}}, {{lang4}}, and {{lang5}}) be included here. If so, should they be renamed with the uw prefix. Also there are six, should 1 or 2 of them be deleted? Mr.Z-mantalk¢Review! 17:35, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Coming up soon to a wikiproject near you. The lang, date, royalty will all be replaced by a boilerplate the uw-mos (manual of style) warning. But usually this type of offence is a one of, as editors do not fully understand what is acceptable when changing format within an article. For this reason there will also be a one off warning {{uw-lang}}, {{uw-date}}, {{uw-royalty}} which will be the first warning issued, just as a polite reminder or pointer on how the format of these articles is/was decided. After that if they choose to ignore the reminder then it would be {{uw-mos2}} or {{uw-mos3}} depending on severity. Why I hear you ask then do we have a {{uw-mos1}} agf level warning. This is because new editors sometimes come in and don't know formatting, bulleting or general layout/syntax that is expected in an article and this shows the editor where they can look to find this info. ^Khukri 09:11, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

uw-test3 & page blanking

Is there a version of {{uw-test3}} that's appropriate for page blanking? I don't want to use a standard vandalism warning as the user self-reverted... JulesH 19:24, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

{{uw-delete1}}, {{uw-delete2}} or {{uw-delete3}}? If its a one off and was reverted there may be no need for a warning at all.... WjBscribe 19:32, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

It was reverted, but it's not a one-off. In the end I used {{test2}}, which seemed most appropriate. JulesH 19:39, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Why would you use a warning that says Please do not add nonsense.... for someone removing content? The uw-delete series as WJBscribe wrote above are for this type of vandalism. ^Khukri 08:08, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Warnings running together

Lately I've noticed a few instances where my warnings, separated by a blank line in the source, are displayed without any separation and just run together. For example, the warnings at the end of [1]. Has anyone else seen this? (it probably depends on your browser, resolution, etc.) Since I just started seeing this, I suspect it has to do with the new {{{icon}}} change (like here). Switching the layout to a numbered list instead of newlines fixes the problem, but in practice a lot of people don't use that. -SpuriousQ (talk) 01:25, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I have seen it sometimes using the subst:warn type when combined with article name option. When that happens to me, I edit the whole talkpage and use equal signs to create subheaders. Ronbo76 01:34, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

User:Kukini noticed a similar problem on {{uw-delete3}} which was picked up by User:SMcCandlish add a <cr> after the sprotect and see if that get's rid of your problem i.e. example. ^Khukri 08:12, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Hm thanks, but I don't think that solves the problem. For example, test6 followed by uw-delete3's still run together: example. What is the reason for the {{{icon}}} change, anyway... I'm unfamiliar with what it does. -SpuriousQ (talk) 09:04, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Some editors do not like the icons on the new uw- series of templates, and to get concensus so we can finish of the single issue templates, I/we added the optional icon parser. If you read here it explains what is coming up and why the icon was added, also there is some history within both talk pages behind this subject.

HELP could one of the scripting guru's Gracenotes / Aza etc please have a look at this problem for me, I don't want to have to revert all the icon changes. If someone can explain the problem, in thickos terminology, I'll run a find replace through them all. Cheers ^Khukri 09:15, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Ah I see, thanks for the info. -SpuriousQ (talk) 09:22, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

{{uw-copyright1}} --> {{Cv}} ?

I just saw that the uw-copyright series was deleted and redirected to {{cv}}. Did I miss something? I have mixed feelings about having a single issue template here. It is a bit harsh for newcommers in my opinion, they don't know they are doing something wrong. (Sorry if I bring a point that has already been discussed, I couldn't find it in the archives :)) -- lucasbfr ^talk 13:14, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

There are two templates, {{Nothanks}} (or {{Nothanks-sd}}) and {{Cv}}, which were listed here before. More than that however, is inappropriate. If someone continues to upload copyrighted material after two warnings (really after one), they cannot be allowed to continue to do so and it cannot be built into the official sort of system created here that they be given five opportunities, with a warning after each one, to commit illegal actions on Wikipedia. I have now redirected {{uw-copyright1}} to {{Nothanks}} instead; it also happens to be much more explanatory and helpful than the new {{uw-copyright1}} which was apparently invented without any reference to already existing templates. —Centrx→talk • 21:43, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Stronger level twos

The people seem to want stronger level two warnings. I agree that there is room for strengthening. So, I went ahead and changed the "could be considered vandalism" to "appear to be vandalism". Personally, I think that's about the right nuance for a level 2 warning. Other thoughts?--Kubigula (talk) 20:29, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

I like the change. --Kukini ^{hablame aqui} 21:29, 20 March 2007 (UTC)