Talk:Fleur-de-lis

Can someone put a border around the flag to make it stand out from the white background? -- Zoe

OK, done -- Taras

I recall from my genealogy chart -- but it's at home so I can't confirm the details -- that England was originally quartered with France Ancient. Gritchka (Later: yes it was; changed it.)

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The Prince of Wales also has a fleur de lis on his coat of arms. Aren't they three feathers? Wetman 22:05, 8 Dec 2003 (UTC)

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A lot more should be discussed on this page: the fleur-de-lis florenced of Firenze (Florence), for example. --Daniel C. Boyer 20:04, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)

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I may confusing the Blue Angel's Fleur-de-lis with another maneuver. I'm trying to doublecheck. Rsduhamel 20:11, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Recently and anonymously added

"Contrary to popular belief, the fleur-de-lis did not originate in France. It was a creation of the ruling class of the Roman Empire, and the French merely adopted, not created, the symbol." Is there any source for this? I'm not deleting, because I simply have no idea of the fact of the matter, but it would be news to me. -- Jmabel | Talk 20:32, Oct 18, 2004 (UTC)

I saw the symbol on both Roman and Greek ruins, but I have no idea whether it was used as a symbol or merely ornament. [[User:Halibutt|Halibutt]] 21:42, Oct 18, 2004 (UTC)

Language

Are France Modern and France Ancient French-language phrases? If so, they should be consistently italicized. -- Jmabel | Talk 19:20, Dec 15, 2004 (UTC)

No, heraldrese, like argent and gules.--Wetman 12:43, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The lily and the coronation of Clovis

"The fleur-de-lis' origins with French monarchs stems from the baptismal lily used in the crowning of King Clovis I. " The source for this detail could only be Gregory of Tours, book II.30-31 [1]. The text offers no lily involved in any way. Clovis was king before he was baptised, as we all vaguely remember from schooldays. That dove let down from the rafters is from the baptism of Clovis not the coronation, so there may be other legendary confusions here: to remove this one from the text might be invidious. --Wetman 12:43, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Fiat lis

Someone recently added anonymously "Fleur-de-luce also means Flower of Light" and a related remark. This is literally true, but is there any reason to believe it is etymologically relevant? Unless someone can come up with a citation from a decent source that says so, I think this should be removed. -- Jmabel | Talk 04:42, 14 September 2005 (UTC) Hey as you can se in the symbolism of the fleur-de-lis, it is "light" , spiritual light in religious symbolism. Now you are "enlightend" regards from another "enlighted" :)

Another anonymous addition

<< The fleur-de-lis represents, in modern depth psychology, life and sun/light (resurrection and ascension). It is also an archetype symbol for flowers and birds (dove), in modern, eagle etc. >>

References are required. What the gleep is "modern depth psychology", anyway?

Urhixidur 01:27, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Depth psychology ? 10 700 000 hits on google.

Ref:In modern depth psychology it [Assumption/Resurection] is generalised, not pointing to any religion. Thats why "life/light"...

By my count "modern depth psychology": 545 hits on Google. Perhaps you did not put quotation marks around the phrase, so got all the pages that happened to have these three words on them?

Looking at some of these references, it seems to mean nothing more than "psychology that acknowledges the existence of unconscious thought", embracing Freud, Jung, Adler, and a lot more. Given that, the claim that "modern depth psychology" ascribes a particular meaning to a particular symbol strikes me as absolutely bogus. Perhaps the Jungians or some particular portion of the Jungians make a statement like this, but to describe it as if the entire psychoanalytic tradition were in agreement is misleading, to say the least. -- Jmabel | Talk 01:44, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Consequently, I have cut the following, pending citations. If any of this has solid citations, provide them and restore:

The fleur-de-lis represents, in modern depth psychology, life and light. It is also an archetype symbol for flowers and birds (dove).

The fleur-de-lis represent the Tree of Life Garden of Eden.

The Angel Gabriel is often pictured with the lily in his hand in the announcement of Christ's birth.

Jmabel | Talk 01:47, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

About the psychologian perspective

I can understand the depth psychologian [unconscious meaning) of the fleur-de-lis as a sexual symbol in its flower perspective. Flowers in depth psychology is a symbol for sex organs where the seed/sperm is "planted" = life. Circumcision symbolism of the fleur-de-lis is also refering to the sex organs (life)

It is also easy to understand: The seed (life) is growing and reaching for light (sunlight) (the growing/the bloom).

Because of the resssurection/assumption story the fleur-de-lis has become the biggest archtype symbol of flowers representig lifes ressurection/assumption into "'light" (from death, to life/from darkness to light) in general and of course then it has depth psychologian symbolism: life light

Today nations use the fleur de lys in symbolism combined with flowers (life) and birds (dove/eagle etc, flowers/trees, stars/candle (light) etc. "Therefore" it is an archtype symbol for flowers, trees, birds and represent all those things etc in the middle/top of the davidstar/crowns.

ref: some flower crowns where the fleur-de-lis has become the archtype flower (the crown flower) representing flowers etc in the depth of the symbolism (like the sun represent stars and vive versa) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_%28headgear%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:QueenMaryCirclet.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_State_Crown

To remove the birth symbolism (life itself), and the tree of life (Egyptian story/Eve story) etc, when it is common religious symbolism, is almost "blasphemy" in my bok.

So until next time , research before remove and critisism ! Regards from a psychologist in profesion.