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==Subtitle?==
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The article states that Brisingr has a subtitle, "The Seven Promises of Eragon Shadeslayer and Saphira Bjartskular ". Does anyone have a source for that? [[Special:Contributions/76.246.158.41|76.246.158.41]] ([[User talk:76.246.158.41|talk]]) 00:08, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
|counter = 3
:Yep! Says it right on the title page. And yes, I am holding a copy right now! This is SO AWESOME!! --[[User:Alinnisawest|Alinnisawest]],<sup>[[Special:Contributions/Alinnisawest|<font color="black">'''Dalek Empress'''</font>]]</sup> ([[User talk:Alinnisawest|<font color="#cf0021">'''extermination requests here]]'''</font>) 20:32, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
|algo = old(14d)
::It's not a subtitle, it's part of the title. --[[User:Dude527|<font color="red">The Guy</font>]] [[User talk:Dude527|<sub><font color="blue">complain</font></sub>]] [[Special:Contributions/Dude527|<sup><font color="red">edits</font></sup>]] 00:32, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
|archive = User talk:SheffieldSteel/Archive %(counter)d
:::Isn't it "'''OR''' The Seven Promises of Eragon Shadeslayer and Saphira Bjartskular"? I thought it was more of an alternate tale, kinda like how the book The Hobbit is "The Hobbit, or There and Back Again". [[User:Anakinjmt|Anakinjmt]] ([[User talk:Anakinjmt|talk]]) 02:14, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
}}
:::::It is "Or", so this is an alternate title. [[User:Nazarenenut|Nazarenenut]] ([[User talk:Nazarenenut|talk]]) 20:57, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
::::You are correct. The four titles of the book are, 1. "Brisingr", 2. "The Seven Promises of Eragon Shadeslayer and Saphira Bjartskular", 3. "Eragon Shadeslayer and Saphira Bjartskular", and 4. "Saphira Bjartskular". It names those four titles on the page after the front cover page. (The page with the big dragon eye, I think.) --[[User:Dude527|<font color="red">The Guy</font>]] [[User talk:Dude527|<sub><font color="blue">complain</font></sub>]] [[Special:Contributions/Dude527|<sup><font color="red">edits</font></sup>]] 21:38, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::I'm looking at the book right now, and the page you mentioned says "Brisingr, or the Seven Promises..." Nothing with just Eragon and Saphira's names or Saphira's name. [[User:Anakinjmt|Anakinjmt]] ([[User talk:Anakinjmt|talk]]) 15:30, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::It's in small text. I will copy the exact text: "I. Title. II. Title: Seven Promises of Eragon Shadeslayer and Saphira Bjartskular. III. Title: Eragon Shadeslayer and Saphira Bjartskular. IV. Title: Saphira Bjartskular." It's on the page opposite the dedication page. In other words, open it up to the dedication page, and look at the page before it where the very top text says "THIS IS A BORZOI BOOK PUBLISHED BY ALFRED A. KNOPF" --[[User:Dude527|<font color="red">The Guy</font>]] [[User talk:Dude527|<sub><font color="blue">complain</font></sub>]] [[Special:Contributions/Dude527|<sup><font color="red">edits</font></sup>]] 19:06, 26 September 2008 (UTC)


'''Welcome!'''
==Plot==
Shouldn't we put spoiler warnings at least?
And isn't it much too long and detailed compared to other books and novels?
just sayin [
[[Special:Contributions/99.237.214.41|99.237.214.41]] ([[User talk:99.237.214.41|talk]]) 00:20, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
:Wikipedia is meant to be a comprehensive document of encyclopedic content, including plot details. I would say the word "Plot" heading the section is warning enough anyways. We also don't compare content to other articles, even in the series. The other books' plots may need to be re-written, though, I agree. I just think the plot section in this article needs expansion, and I intend to provide it. --[[User:Dude527|<font color="red">The Guy</font>]] [[User talk:Dude527|<sub><font color="blue">complain</font></sub>]] [[Special:Contributions/Dude527|<sup><font color="red">edits</font></sup>]] 00:31, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
:: The plot summary here is [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brisingr&oldid=239895127#Plot currently] 1600 words - much longer than suggested by guidelines. [[Wikipedia:Plot summaries]] suggests 300 to 500 words; for comparison, [[Wikipedia:FILMPLOT]] suggests 400 to 700 words. The plot summary here needs to be cut back, not expanded. But a section called "Plot" doesn't need any further spoiler warning. [[User_talk:Gimmetrow|''Gimmetrow'']] 01:07, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
:::I have condensed the plot a bit, but I guarentee its still over the limit. Keep in mind, though, that many other things go toward character count as well, such as pipe linking. That said, what is the character count? Also, when I said expansion, I didn't mean enlargement; I meant replacement of insignificant plot details with more detailed accounts of the significant events. --[[User:Dude527|<font color="red">The Guy</font>]] [[User talk:Dude527|<sub><font color="blue">complain</font></sub>]] [[Special:Contributions/Dude527|<sup><font color="red">edits</font></sup>]] 02:02, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
:::: Now down to 850 words and 5000 characters prose - that's rendered text, not wiki text. [[User_talk:Gimmetrow|''Gimmetrow'']] 02:07, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::Now is the text at the desired amount? --[[User:Dude527|<font color="red">The Guy</font>]] [[User talk:Dude527|<sub><font color="blue">complain</font></sub>]] [[Special:Contributions/Dude527|<sup><font color="red">edits</font></sup>]] 02:15, 21 September 2008 (UTC)


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== Note on "disputes: uninvolved administrators" ==
I think that the plot summary is far too short it leaves out lots of major parts e.g. the warriors who feel no pain and Arya's talk with Eragon on the way back to the Varden's camp. [[User:Monkeyman389|Monkeyman389]] ([[User talk:Monkeyman389|talk]]) 16:19, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
:The warriors feeling no pain is not a major plot point, and Arya's talk with Eragon is not either. The section is meant as a very broad, short summary of the major events of the story, like Eragon killing the Ra'zac, Brom being revealed as Eragon's father, et cetera. The warriors who feel no pain would be going into too great of detail, and I still have much condensing to do with the section as-is. --[[User:Dude527|<font color="red">The Guy</font>]] [[User talk:Dude527|<sub><font color="blue">complain</font></sub>]] [[Special:Contributions/Dude527|<sup><font color="red">edits</font></sup>]] 16:51, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
::Well if it leaves out too much and people disagree with putting in more details, then maybe someone should consider creating and article with much more detail regarding Brisingr. Then this argument wuld be settled.
:::Please don't delete my previous comment to add yours.
:::In regards to creating separate articles for a more detailed analysis, you couldn't. It would go up for AfD faster than you can say "BRISINGR!" and it would be a violation of a couple of guidelines. As for expansion, no. It would go against guidelines. This is settled at that. I'm saying, I myself don't disagree with putting in more details, but certain guidelines do, and those we must follow. Likewise, I agree with the rules over my personal judgment, lest I violate [[WP:OR]] in using my own judgment to determine how much content should be contained, rather than follow guidelines on that. --[[User:Dude527|<font color="red">The Guy</font>]] [[User talk:Dude527|<sub><font color="blue">complain</font></sub>]] [[Special:Contributions/Dude527|<sup><font color="red">edits</font></sup>]] 20:06, 21 September 2008 (UTC)


"For the purpose of imposing sanctions under this provision, an administrator will be considered "uninvolved" if he or she has not previously participated in any content disputes on articles in the area of conflict. Enforcing the provisions of this decision will not be considered to be participation in a dispute. Any doubt regarding whether an administrator qualifies under this definition is to be treated as any other appeal of sanctions."
[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brisingr&oldid=240072898#Plot Current] plot length is about 560 words. Just for comparison, a few other articles on novels when promoted to featured status: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Uncle_Tom%27s_Cabin&oldid=128212002#Plot_summary ''Uncle Tom's Cabin''] - 925 words, [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Well_of_Loneliness&oldid=104522791#Plot_summary ''The Well of Loneliness''] - 600 words, [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Starship_Troopers&oldid=42826836#Plot_summary ''Starship Troopers''] - 850 words, [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Oroonoko&oldid=12613910#Plot ''Oroonoko''] - 600 words, [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=To_Kill_a_Mockingbird&oldid=202869517#Plot_summary ''To Kill a Mockingbird''] - 550 words, [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Country_Wife&oldid=11444882#Plots ''The Country Wife''] - 820 words, [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_General_in_His_Labyrinth&oldid=206708210#Plot_summary ''The General in His Labyrinth''] - 825 words. These novels are studied in literature courses. [[User_talk:Gimmetrow|''Gimmetrow'']] 20:48, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/September_11_conspiracy_theories#Discretionary_sanctions


A quick check on your contributions to the [[9/11]] talk page over the last month or so shows that you are not exactly an "uninvolved administrator".
:At this point, we should probably keep the plot summary where it is. I do agree that it should be slightly more expanded if we are going to get it to FA status, but it would be better to wait for things to cool down before doing it, or else people will get carried away with the adding to the summary. ~ [[User:Bella Swan|<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:DarkRed">Bella</span>]] [[User_talk:Bella Swan|<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:Black">Swan</span>]]<sup>[[Bella Swan|<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:DarkRed"><big>?</big></span>]]</sup> 20:11, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
::For example: "Arya stabbed the Shade through the heart, killing him." Insignificant, it was explained in the first book that that was the only way to kill a Shade, so isn't that implied? Also: "Every time Eragon says "Brisingr," the blade bursts into flames." That's not significant to the story, either. It might be in the next book, but in this book, its just a cool little feature, not worthy of mention. Same with the whole killing Sloan part. That's not significant ''to this book''. Especially the detail, "in cold blood." People keep reverting these insignificant details, and they're just that: insignificant. --[[User:Dude527|<font color="red">The Guy</font>]] [[User talk:Dude527|<sub><font color="blue">complain</font></sub>]] [[Special:Contributions/Dude527|<sup><font color="red">edits</font></sup>]] 20:45, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
:::One thing about plot length though, shouldn't the length be sort of determined by the length of the book? For example, the plot section for [[Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows]] is longer than that of [[Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets]] because DH is longer than CoS. This is the longest book in the series (thus far), so a longer plot section should be expected. In addition, I added to the making of the sword, adding that the elf (forget her name for the moment) took control of Eragon's body for part of the forging of the sword so that she could avoid breaking her oath. I feel that's an important thing to note. I'd say as for the fact that the sword bursts into flame every time he says its name, just add the phrase "causing it to burst into flame every time the name is spoken" after "he names it Brisingr." Doesn't need to be a separate sentence. [[User:Anakinjmt|Anakinjmt]] ([[User talk:Anakinjmt|talk]]) 02:20, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
::::The trouble with Brisingr is that is has an awful lot of content which isn't critical to the plot (the semi-immortal soldiers, the God, Elva etc). I think if we tried to make a plot summary proportional to the length of the book we'd end up with an excessively-long summary (and do remember, it's meant to be a ''summary'' of the plot so doesn't need to give every detail). [[User:UnaLaguna|Una Laguna]]<sup>[[User talk:UnaLaguna|Talk]]</sup> 06:04, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::True on the amount of content. A good chunk of it is description, or detail that doesn't need to go in (like the exact forging of Eragon's sword). I guess the question is, what do we think are the main plot points that need to be addressed? My thinking is this (based on a single read of the book which I haven't looked at since Sunday, keep in mind and not necessarily in order):


[[User:Frank Freeman|Frank Freeman]] ([[User talk:Frank Freeman|talk]]) 09:49, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::1. Eragon and Roran go to kill the Ra'zac after convincing Arya and Nasuada.
:I disagree with that assessment. I have not disputed any content. <font color="006622">[[User:SheffieldSteel|S<small>HEFFIELD</small>S<small>TEEL</small>]]</font><sup><small><b>[[User_talk:SheffieldSteel|TALK]]</b></small></sup> 16:00, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::2. Eragon comes across Sloane, tells Saphira to go on ahead, and eventually sets Sloane on his way to go to Du Weldenvarden.
:::::3. Nasuada reaffirms her leadership of the Varden with the knives trial
:::::4. Eragon meets up with Arya and they make their way back to Surda.
:::::5. Eragon marries Roran and Katrina, but not before fending off an attack by the undead soldiers and Murtaugh and Thorn
:::::6. Eragon leaves for the dwarves with a Kull and fends off an attack by the dwarf clan.
:::::7. Orik is crowned king of the dwarves
:::::8. Saphira rejoins Eragon and they return to the home of the elves
:::::9. Eragon learns from Oromis and Glaedr about dragon's heart of hearts and how it is the source of Galbatorix's power, with Glaedr giving Eragon his heart of hearts
:::::10. Eragon and the elf blacksmith (forget her name again at the moment) forge Eragon's sword
:::::11. Eragon and Saphira join the town the Varden attack and run into Arya where they kill a Shade
:::::11. Roran is punished for disobeying his direct superior before being given command of a group of Urgals
:::::12. Eragon sees Murtaugh kill Oromis and destroy Glaedr's body, sending Glaedr's consciousness into his heart of hearts which Eragon has.


== Filed a Complaint Against Me? ==
:::::That's what I can recall right now. That may be a lot, but if we can have a plot summary with just those things, giving the appropriate amount of detail so that the reader will not be confused but understand what exactly happens, then anything else can be considered extraneous. I plan on re-reading the book once I've finished The Force Unleashed book, so I can work on a brand new plot summary going with those points if no one else wants to do it in the meantime. But does everyone agree at least those points should be included in the plot summary? Additionally, if anyone thinks there is a main plot point that I forget (which is very possible), please mention it. [[User:Anakinjmt|Anakinjmt]] ([[User talk:Anakinjmt|talk]]) 17:28, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


You said if I had any questions or concerns to contact you, so ok, thanks.
(unindent) Someone has added plot summaries for Nasuada and Roran. I think these are unnecessary as the plot points cover relatively unimportant details, not to mention the summary should be kept as one block of text rather than being split up per character. Anyone object to me removing these? [[User:UnaLaguna|Una Laguna]]<sup>[[User talk:UnaLaguna|Talk]]</sup> 15:27, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
:They don't need their own separate areas, no. My suggestion is intercut Nasuada's and Roran's parts with the main story of Eragon, like how the book is. [[User:Anakinjmt|Anakinjmt]] ([[User talk:Anakinjmt|talk]]) 17:28, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
::I agree that the book is filled with many unimportant details. I think, we should ask ourselves this for EVERY detail: "Does it advance the plot?" Does the sword bursting to flames advance the plot? No, it doesn't. Even in the Acknowledgments, Paolini noted that it was just a cool idea of his, and bears of no significance. I think it should be kept to a short plot, only stating the things that were significant to the previous books, things that advance the plot, and significant mysteries left unsolved at the end of the book that were brought up in the book. That being said, we should not go into excrutiating details, either; but rather briefly touch on each subject, keeping prose. An example of going into too much detail would be saying "The Shade fell to the duo, with Arya delivering the fatal blow." It should rather be "The Shade fell to the duo," simply to keep it shorter. As for removing the separate characters' stories, I object, unless you can find an efficient way to lay the plots of separate characters out in extremely good prose. I just generally object to jumping around from character-to-character. --[[User:Dude527|<font color="red">The Guy</font>]] [[User talk:Dude527|<sub><font color="blue">complain</font></sub>]] [[Special:Contributions/Dude527|<sup><font color="red">edits</font></sup>]] 19:18, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Just because the sword bursting into flames doesn't advance the plot doesn't mean we can't mention. My thinking is something like "Eragon helps the elf blacksmith forge his new sword, which he names Brisingr, at which point he discovers saying the sword's name causes it to burst into flames." This is why I made the list of major plot points. We can't just take those plot points and stick them in and go "Okay, here's the summary." We'll need a bit more detail to make things flow together well. We need to be careful when adding in things, yes, but we don't need to go to the other extreme. If you object jumping from character to character, makes me wonder how you managed this book or the previous book. I think it will work much better and look better if we intercut like how the book does between characters. [[User:Anakinjmt|Anakinjmt]] ([[User talk:Anakinjmt|talk]]) 19:27, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
::::Yes, but my point is what significance does the flame sword have? Zero! It might in the next book, as I suspect it does, but that's just speculation by myself. Also, I don't mind jumping around from character to character in a novel (albeit, sometimes I do just read the individual characters chapters, not intertwined), but in a plot summary that is supposed to be just a short little summary of the major events that happened in the book to advance the plot, intercutting characters could become confusing. That is why I said I object unless somebody can do it skillfully. I still object to adding anything about a flaming sword -- that's unimportant. --[[User:Dude527|<font color="red">The Guy</font>]] [[User talk:Dude527|<sub><font color="blue">complain</font></sub>]] [[Special:Contributions/Dude527|<sup><font color="red">edits</font></sup>]] 19:49, 26 September 2008 (UTC)


So, you reported my comments on the "9-11 Attacks" Discussion Page? I was merely explaining and defending my case, this including answering people's questions posed there (which I never asked them to ask of me.) Perhaps some of my posts were over-long, perhaps the conversation went a little off-topic, but if you had any problem with this discussion topic you could have requested that it be removed. Instead, you report me personally as abusing the rules and now I am awaiting judgement. I can only hope that that person is reasonable and doesn't do the quick, easy thing without relaxing and looking clearly at the situation.
== Issue Regarding plot summeary ==


You could have easily asked for the topic to be edited or deleted, instead you go after me. Do you have a problem with me or were you just having a bad day? [[User:Neurolanis|Neurolanis]] ([[User talk:Neurolanis|talk]]) 21:40, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
I understand that wikipedia has a limit for everything included in it's articles, but this plot summary is very rushed, not describing everthiny including the conversations in the book(the important ones of course). I think that the summary should be re-written as it does not give enough information. I would do it myself,, but I am not good with this sort of thing. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/76.92.234.79|76.92.234.79]] ([[User talk:76.92.234.79|talk]]) 08:11, 22 September 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:It may not be as detailed as some people would like (I even agree), but it fits standards, without shifting its focus to little details. What I plan to do is to further cleanse it of insignificant details, and expand upon the main points of the plot, such as the murder of Oromis. --[[User:Dude527|<font color="red">The Guy</font>]] [[User talk:Dude527|<sub><font color="blue">complain</font></sub>]] [[Special:Contributions/Dude527|<sup><font color="red">edits</font></sup>]] 20:50, 22 September 2008 (UTC)


:I have not reported you to anyone, I have not gone after you, I do not have a problem with you, and I was not having a bad day. All I've done is let you know about a decision by the arbitration committee, how it might affect you, and how to avoid any trouble. Now you know the ground rules that everyone is expected to play by, that's all. <font color="006622">[[User:SheffieldSteel|S<small>HEFFIELD</small>S<small>TEEL</small>]]</font><sup><small><b>[[User_talk:SheffieldSteel|TALK]]</b></small></sup> 21:49, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
==External Links==
I just wanted to apologize to [[User:UnaLaguna]] for adding the 'official' part to the external link. I didn't even look at it and I just assumed it was the official website. Honest mistake, sorry and thanks for rv it. ~ [[User:Bella Swan|<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:DarkRed">Bella</span>]] [[User_talk:Bella Swan|<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:Black">Swan</span>]]<sup>[[Bella Swan|<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:DarkRed"><big>?</big></span>]]</sup> 20:08, 22 September 2008 (UTC)


Ok, well then I apologize for assuming that you had reported me. Those comments thus apply to that person and not to you.
:Not at all, everyone makes mistakes :) [[User:UnaLaguna|Una Laguna]]<sup>[[User talk:UnaLaguna|Talk]]</sup> 06:43, 23 September 2008 (UTC)


Ground rules? I'm beginning to read between the lines. Thanks. [[User:Neurolanis|Neurolanis]] ([[User talk:Neurolanis|talk]]) 21:58, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
== Spoilers ==


== Page Protect ==
I think we should add a spoiler tag to the top of the plot summary. I'd add it myself, but I can't remember what the proper code is. <nowiki>{{spoiler}}</nowiki> doesn't work because all it gets is {{spoiler}}. I wasn't able to find out what to type through Wikipedia's Help, either. [[User:Dogman15|dogman15]] ([[User talk:Dogman15|talk]]) 20:19, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
:Wikipedia does not label spoilers, so no. This has already been discussed. --[[User:Dude527|<font color="red">The Guy</font>]] [[User talk:Dude527|<sub><font color="blue">complain</font></sub>]] [[Special:Contributions/Dude527|<sup><font color="red">edits</font></sup>]] 20:56, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
: Wiki used to have spoiler warnings until about a year and a half ago when people decided a section called "Plot" didn't need further warning. [[User_talk:Gimmetrow|''Gimmetrow'']] 21:01, 23 September 2008 (UTC)


Thanks for protecting my userpage... While my vandalism count won't go up, it's good to know that I won't have to check my page constantly. Again, thanks! <font color="990000">[[User:Darth_Panda|D<small>ARTH</small> P<small>ANDA</small>]]</font><sup><small><b>[[User_talk:Darth_Panda|talk]]</b></small></sup>
== Doctor Who reference ==
:No problem. Hopefully your antagonists will get bored and wander off. Let me know if the problem recurs. <font color="006622">[[User:SheffieldSteel|S<small>HEFFIELD</small>S<small>TEEL</small>]]</font><sup><small><b>[[User_talk:SheffieldSteel|TALK]]</b></small></sup> 19:37, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
::Is there any way to request permenant protection? It may be easiest, considering I annoy many many vandals. <font color="990000">[[User:Darth_Panda|D<small>ARTH</small> P<small>ANDA</small>]]</font><sup><small><b>[[User_talk:Darth_Panda|talk]]</b></small></sup> 19:30, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
:::Okay, I've indefinitely semi-protected your user page (note that IPs will still have access to your User Talk page). Let me know if/when you need that protection removing. <font color="006622">[[User:SheffieldSteel|S<small>HEFFIELD</small>S<small>TEEL</small>]]</font><sup><small><b>[[User_talk:SheffieldSteel|TALK]]</b></small></sup> 19:38, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
::::Thanks so much!<font color="990000">[[User:Darth_Panda|D<small>ARTH</small> P<small>ANDA</small>]]</font><sup><small><b>[[User_talk:Darth_Panda|talk]]</b></small></sup> 20:21, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


== [[Masonic ritual and symbolism]] ==
Should the reference to ''[[Doctor Who]]'' be noted in the article?


Hi, thank you for your kind words on AN/I. On the issue of the subject [[Masonic ritual and symbolism]], what can I do about this? The situation is:
On page 204 and 207, this is written by Arya (I've connected the two different pages)


* Nominated by MSJapan for an Afd in [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Masonic ritual and symbolism]]
''Adrift upon the sea of time, the lonely god wanders from shore to distant shore, upholding the laws of the stars above. The trickster, the riddler, the keeper of the balance, he of the many faces who finds life in death and who fears no evil; he who walks through doors.''
* Kept as No concensus, with the comment that whether the page should be kept, merged or redirected should be a matter for the talk pages
* Redirected without further discussion by MSJapan
* Redirection reverted by me
* Redirected again by Blueboar
* Discussion opened on talk page of redirected page (after second redirection)


I think that this is highly irregular, but I may be wrong. However if I revert anything done then I'm only likely to start some sort of edit war.
In the Acknowledgments section at the back of the book, Paolini states that this is a reference to Doctor Who [[Special:Contributions/67.241.11.157|67.241.11.157]] ([[User talk:67.241.11.157|talk]]) 21:48, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
:I'd say so, especially when the author confirms it himself (I thought he was talking about Doctor Who, although having never seen the show myself I wasn't sure). [[User:Anakinjmt|Anakinjmt]] ([[User talk:Anakinjmt|talk]]) 02:18, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
::I would not agree, only because it raises the questions, "where would this fit in prose?" and "how is this notable?" It also brings up the question of how do we know to which statements he is referring? It would violate [[WP:OR]] because he never says he is referring to those specific statements, he just says whoever gets the reference, gets it. --[[User:Dude527|<font color="red">The Guy</font>]] [[User talk:Dude527|<sub><font color="blue">complain</font></sub>]] [[Special:Contributions/Dude527|<sup><font color="red">edits</font></sup>]] 03:03, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:::I don't believe this would be considered OR because Paolini states the area in the book it is in, he specifically says "The Doctor", and he also states that the Doctor can travel to alternate realities, which he does multiple times in [[Doctor Who]]. I'd call that a verifiable source about the reference [[Special:Contributions/67.241.11.157|67.241.11.157]] ([[User talk:67.241.11.157|talk]]) 03:53, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
::::Look at it this way. I did not get the reference, even after I read the acknowledgments. He did not even mention where the reference was, and therefore it ''could technically'' be anywhere in the book. I mean, you found it, but its not verifiable that that is the statement to which he was referring, so it's original research. --[[User:Dude527|<font color="red">The Guy</font>]] [[User talk:Dude527|<sub><font color="blue">complain</font></sub>]] [[Special:Contributions/Dude527|<sup><font color="red">edits</font></sup>]] 15:32, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::Just because you did not get the reference doesn't mean he didn't make it, or that he did not say "yes this is a reference." He specified that he was referring to the description of the dwarf god. I don't see how that is OR when the author told us what he referenced AND what it is a reference to. [[User:Anakinjmt|Anakinjmt]] ([[User talk:Anakinjmt|talk]]) 17:40, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::He did no such thing. He said thanks to everyone who got the Doctor Who reference when Eragon and Arya were sitting around the campfire. That is not a description of the dwarf god, and it would be OR, because for all we know, he's talking about when Arya was talking about her love. That's what I'm getting at, it's not verifiable that that is the statement he is getting at, ''by any visible means''. I'm not denying that he didn't make the reference, at all, because he said he did. I'm denying that you can verify where the reference is in the book. [[WP:V]]: The threshold for inclusion on Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth." Just because its true, does not mean you can verify it without your own judgment. --[[User:Dude527|<font color="red">The Guy</font>]] [[User talk:Dude527|<sub><font color="blue">complain</font></sub>]] [[Special:Contributions/Dude527|<sup><font color="red">edits</font></sup>]] 18:15, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::::[[WP:IGNORE]]: Just because you're dumb doesn't mean you're right. /vote add. [[Special:Contributions/75.182.89.73|75.182.89.73]] ([[User talk:75.182.89.73|talk]]) 22:17, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::::[[WP:IGNORE]] does not apply in a situation where you cannot verify the content you are posting. Also, I would like to see your evidence that adding this would improve the article, anyways. On another note, please refrain from [[WP:NPA|personal attacks]]. Dumb or not, I am not a fan of Doctor Who, and I did not catch the reference. Even after I read Paolini's comment in the Acknowledgments, it left me going "huh?" It's just not verifiable. --[[User:Dude527|<font color="red">The Guy</font>]] [[User talk:Dude527|<sub><font color="blue">complain</font></sub>]] [[Special:Contributions/Dude527|<sup><font color="red">edits</font></sup>]] 01:27, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
:Mentioning a vague reference like that just seems incredibly [[WP:TRIVIA|trivial]] to me... [[User:MelicansMatkin|MelicansMatkin]] ([[User talk:MelicansMatkin|talk]]) 18:06, 28 September 2008 (UTC)


What should I do?
== Critical reception ==


[[User:JASpencer|JASpencer]] ([[User talk:JASpencer|talk]]) 09:05, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
This section is currently unsourced and looks very much like [[WP:OR|original research]]. A bit of Googling does show there are some reviews of it; however none of these seem to be from [[WP:RS|reliable sources]]. Should we remove the current section? [[User:UnaLaguna|Una Laguna]]<sup>[[User talk:UnaLaguna|Talk]]</sup> 14:40, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
:I had removed that twice in a day a while ago, and I hadn't realized it was re-posted. I'll remove it. --[[User:Dude527|<font color="red">The Guy</font>]] [[User talk:Dude527|<sub><font color="blue">complain</font></sub>]] [[Special:Contributions/Dude527|<sup><font color="red">edits</font></sup>]] 16:53, 5 October 2008 (UTC)


:The only thing to do in this situation, in general, is to discuss the matter politely with other interested editors at the relevant Talk page. If you can't achieve a [[WP:CON|consensus]], you may get some help from the [[WP:DR|dispute resolution]] guidelines. <font color="006622">[[User:SheffieldSteel|S<small>HEFFIELD</small>S<small>TEEL</small>]]</font><sup><small><b>[[User_talk:SheffieldSteel|TALK]]</b></small></sup> 18:46, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
== Brisingr Reviews ==


== [[Mood_(city)]] ==
(Gets out Megaphone)


Why the deletion? It seems to be a valid article... [[User:Jossi|≈ jossi ≈]] <small>[[User_talk:Jossi|(talk)]]</small> 21:16, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
Attention People: Reviews from biased websites (either positive or negative) will be deleted! If you want to add a review, make sure it is from a reputable source, say, the ''New York Times'' or ''Publishers Weekly''. Of course, other widely distributed papers will do.
:It looked like a simple G7 candidate. Now I'm not so sure. Having deleted it quickly, I'm in no hurry to make another mistake. <font color="006622">[[User:SheffieldSteel|S<small>HEFFIELD</small>S<small>TEEL</small>]]</font><sup><small><b>[[User_talk:SheffieldSteel|TALK]]</b></small></sup> 21:17, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


== Being Blocked ==
Also, if a review mentions both positive and negative aspects of the book, you MUST include both when you sumarize said review!


Hi SheffieldSteel,
Thank you.


I am VERY new to entering info onto Wikipedia and would like to know why I've been blocked. I actually work for Bramwell Tovey and I'm trying to put the info from his press kit to the site but you keep telling me that this isn't allowed. There are numerous things on his page that are out of date or wrong information and he keeps asking me to change it. Could you please help me understand what I can and cannot do and how I can take some of the incorrect info off right now? Thank you so much.
[[User:Spinach Dip|'''<font color="#0000FF">Spinach Dip</font>''']] 21:20, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
[[User:Rogers &amp; Cowan LA|Rogers &amp; Cowan LA]] ([[User talk:Rogers &amp; Cowan LA|talk]]) 21:42, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
:Replying on user's talk page. <font color="006622">[[User:SheffieldSteel|S<small>HEFFIELD</small>S<small>TEEL</small>]]</font><sup><small><b>[[User_talk:SheffieldSteel|TALK]]</b></small></sup> 21:43, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

== Thanks ==

Thanks for the reply. Instead of challenging or overturning, can you (or I if need be) just ''suggest'' the option to one of the admins? Cheers <font color="Orange"><b>[[User:Wikiality123|Wiki San Roze]]</b></font><sup><i> <font color="green">[[User talk:Wikiality123|†αLҝ]]</font></i></sup> 08:29, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Revision as of 15:16, 10 October 2008

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Welcome!

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Hello. Please don't forget to provide an edit summary. Thanks, and happy editing.

Xiner (talk, email) 03:55, 17 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Note on "disputes: uninvolved administrators"

"For the purpose of imposing sanctions under this provision, an administrator will be considered "uninvolved" if he or she has not previously participated in any content disputes on articles in the area of conflict. Enforcing the provisions of this decision will not be considered to be participation in a dispute. Any doubt regarding whether an administrator qualifies under this definition is to be treated as any other appeal of sanctions." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/September_11_conspiracy_theories#Discretionary_sanctions

A quick check on your contributions to the 9/11 talk page over the last month or so shows that you are not exactly an "uninvolved administrator".

Frank Freeman (talk) 09:49, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree with that assessment. I have not disputed any content. SHEFFIELDSTEELTALK 16:00, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Filed a Complaint Against Me?

You said if I had any questions or concerns to contact you, so ok, thanks.

So, you reported my comments on the "9-11 Attacks" Discussion Page? I was merely explaining and defending my case, this including answering people's questions posed there (which I never asked them to ask of me.) Perhaps some of my posts were over-long, perhaps the conversation went a little off-topic, but if you had any problem with this discussion topic you could have requested that it be removed. Instead, you report me personally as abusing the rules and now I am awaiting judgement. I can only hope that that person is reasonable and doesn't do the quick, easy thing without relaxing and looking clearly at the situation.

You could have easily asked for the topic to be edited or deleted, instead you go after me. Do you have a problem with me or were you just having a bad day? Neurolanis (talk) 21:40, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have not reported you to anyone, I have not gone after you, I do not have a problem with you, and I was not having a bad day. All I've done is let you know about a decision by the arbitration committee, how it might affect you, and how to avoid any trouble. Now you know the ground rules that everyone is expected to play by, that's all. SHEFFIELDSTEELTALK 21:49, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, well then I apologize for assuming that you had reported me. Those comments thus apply to that person and not to you.

Ground rules? I'm beginning to read between the lines. Thanks. Neurolanis (talk) 21:58, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Page Protect

Thanks for protecting my userpage... While my vandalism count won't go up, it's good to know that I won't have to check my page constantly. Again, thanks! DARTH PANDAtalk

No problem. Hopefully your antagonists will get bored and wander off. Let me know if the problem recurs. SHEFFIELDSTEELTALK 19:37, 3 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Is there any way to request permenant protection? It may be easiest, considering I annoy many many vandals. DARTH PANDAtalk 19:30, 6 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, I've indefinitely semi-protected your user page (note that IPs will still have access to your User Talk page). Let me know if/when you need that protection removing. SHEFFIELDSTEELTALK 19:38, 6 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks so much!DARTH PANDAtalk 20:21, 6 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, thank you for your kind words on AN/I. On the issue of the subject Masonic ritual and symbolism, what can I do about this? The situation is:

  • Nominated by MSJapan for an Afd in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Masonic ritual and symbolism
  • Kept as No concensus, with the comment that whether the page should be kept, merged or redirected should be a matter for the talk pages
  • Redirected without further discussion by MSJapan
  • Redirection reverted by me
  • Redirected again by Blueboar
  • Discussion opened on talk page of redirected page (after second redirection)

I think that this is highly irregular, but I may be wrong. However if I revert anything done then I'm only likely to start some sort of edit war.

What should I do?

JASpencer (talk) 09:05, 4 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The only thing to do in this situation, in general, is to discuss the matter politely with other interested editors at the relevant Talk page. If you can't achieve a consensus, you may get some help from the dispute resolution guidelines. SHEFFIELDSTEELTALK 18:46, 4 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Why the deletion? It seems to be a valid article... ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 21:16, 7 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It looked like a simple G7 candidate. Now I'm not so sure. Having deleted it quickly, I'm in no hurry to make another mistake. SHEFFIELDSTEELTALK 21:17, 7 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Being Blocked

Hi SheffieldSteel,

I am VERY new to entering info onto Wikipedia and would like to know why I've been blocked. I actually work for Bramwell Tovey and I'm trying to put the info from his press kit to the site but you keep telling me that this isn't allowed. There are numerous things on his page that are out of date or wrong information and he keeps asking me to change it. Could you please help me understand what I can and cannot do and how I can take some of the incorrect info off right now? Thank you so much. Rogers & Cowan LA (talk) 21:42, 8 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Replying on user's talk page. SHEFFIELDSTEELTALK 21:43, 8 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks

Thanks for the reply. Instead of challenging or overturning, can you (or I if need be) just suggest the option to one of the admins? Cheers Wiki San Roze †αLҝ 08:29, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]