Talk:Indo-Aryan migrations

Laughter riot

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/03769836211052101

Enjoy! TrangaBellam (talk) 22:43, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

Ahem. Not a single degree (see the programs tab) is remotely linked to history or archeology.

ICHR used to be the the crown of all journals on history and allied fields, published from India. Atleast till a couple of decades back. TrangaBellam (talk) 22:49, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

Fascinating career for our author. TrangaBellam (talk) 22:57, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

WP:NOTFORUM Chariotrider555 (talk) 01:06, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

A journal—admired by Eric Hobsbawm to be "the richest venue for vigorous discussions on Indian History"—publishing ridiculous articles by a non-qualified author about our subject not only raises valid concern about the reliability of peer-review process under the current political regime but also protects our article from upcoming shenanigans.

This is not the first time, I am seeing journals published by institutes which are controlled by the Government of India publishing anti-AMT narratives in hitherto reliable journals. TrangaBellam (talk) 08:28, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

I am not laughing. I am seriously concerned. If the journal has been hijacked by the BJP, all the articles published in it under the BJP administration will have to be declared as unreliable. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 23:48, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

The editor-in-chief is the president of ICHR, Arvind Jamkhedkar, the Chancellor of the Deccan College. So I am not surprised stuff like this is appearing in the journal. All the editors are also members of ICHR. I can't recognize any of these names. Perhaps you can. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 23:56, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Here is Deccan College for you. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 00:17, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Here's an article (published today) detailing the infiltration of Hindutva into ICHR. The report mentions one Akhil Bharatiya Itihas Sankalan Yojana; I am hearing of the organization for the first time but our article was written by Vanamonde93.

That being said, I will appreciate anybody who can email me a copy of the article. I am not a subscriber. TrangaBellam (talk) 13:59, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

@Kautilya3, I am acquainted with none but have come across Kapil Kumar from Twitter. Tanwar's book on Kashmir is on my to-read list. I faintly recall Kadam being in the news for inviting G. D. Bakshi (!) to speak about AMT/AIT at Dept. of History, JNU, Delhi.

Both Kadam and Kumar being in ICHR is worrying. TrangaBellam (talk) 10:14, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

India is a place where pseudoscience is preached in schools as science. Therefore Such publications in hitherto reliable journals are no surprise. ChandlerMinh (talk) 20:41, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

"Theory"

@WikiLinuz - you reverted my earlier edit which stated in the lead section that this is a "theory".

Throughout the article, in numerous sections, there is this mention of it being a theory.

Based on that, I edited the lead section and added the above.

Look forward to hearing back from you... StolenFocus007 (talk) 12:55, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

It's a fact, not a theory. And we're not talking about scientific theory either. WikiLinuz {talk} 🍁 18:18, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

How can it not be a theory when it is called a theory ? 59.89.154.11 (talk) 09:15, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

It is literally mentioned in the article that it is a theory . 59.89.154.11 (talk) 09:17, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

Genetics info from D Reich

According to geneticist David Reich, Sintashta and Andronovo, the two cultures often associated with the Indo-Aryans and Indo-Aryan languages, did not directly contribute any DNA to India[source]:

"Often in the story told with the steppe hypothesis, the Yamnaya give rise to later groups called the Sintashta and Andronovo that then contributed to India. But genetic data from those populations so far call into question that model, as they do not work statistically as sources of ancestry in India." — David Reich

[Source] Reich, David (March 2018). "Ancient DNA Suggests Steppe Migrations Spread Indo-European Languages"

Pretty interesting, since the theory focus a lot on Sintashta/Andronovo migrations which apparently did not happen. In the source Reich mentions that Sintashta/Andronovo-related ancestry reached India later than hypothesized, through a later culture that carried it (thus indirect contribution) 46.176.160.196 (talk) 11:28, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Please read footnote 2 at the end of that paragraph from which you pulled the quote.

”In the year since this lecture was delivered, my laboratory and another laboratory have generated new ancient DNA data from Central Asia. With these data in hand, we have been able to show that groups like Sintashta and Andronovo in fact have mixed with some of these newly sampled populations to produce a plausible source population for South Asians.” Chariotrider555 (talk) 14:41, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

"Aryan Invasion Theory (history and controversies)" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Aryan Invasion Theory (history and controversies) and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 December 3#Aryan Invasion Theory (history and controversies) until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Senator2029 【talk】 21:08, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

Infobox military conflict

@HorCrux48: FYI: the IVC had already started to decline, due to climate change, when Indo-Aryan people started to migrate into northern India, also due to climate change. The 'Aryan Invasion Theory', bt which you seem to be informed, is outdated and incorrect. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 19:29, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

@RegentsPark and Bishonen: does one of you care to convince this editor of their misunderstanding? Thanks. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 19:30, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

@HorCrux48: If you find your additions reverted, please seek consensus on the talk page rather than edit warring to add it back. I'm removing your infobox and suggest you explain here why you think it necessary. Wait for consensus and, if you get it, then add it back. (See WP:BRD and WP:EW)--RegentsPark (comment) 20:39, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 January 2024

Please change:

The Gandhara Grave, Cemetery H, Copper Hoard and Painted Grey Ware cultures are candidates for subsequent cultures within south India associated with Indo-Aryan movements.

to:

The Gandhara Grave, Cemetery H, Copper Hoard and Painted Grey Ware cultures are candidates for subsequent cultures within South Asia associated with Indo-Aryan movements. Lekhak (talk) 15:38, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: no reason given for the proposed change. M.Bitton (talk) 16:08, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

"south India" in this sentence doesn't make any sense. "South Asia" does. It appears to be a typo, hence my simple correction.

Regardless of the controversy, The Gandhara Grave, Cemetery H, Copper Hoard and Painted Grey Ware cultures within South Asia is generally conjectured to be associated with Indo-Aryan movements all over the literature.

For instance:

"Aryans in the Archaeological Record: The Evidence Inside the Subcontinent" by J.F. Heinen: This chapter from the book "The Quest for the Origins of Vedic Culture" delves into the archaeological evidence for Indo-Aryan presence in South Asia, with a specific focus on the Gandhara Grave Culture.

UNDERSTANDING PATTERNS OF CULTURAL DEVELOPMENT IN THE POST-HARAPPAN PERIOD ( ND MILLENNIUM TO 600 BCE): A STUDY ON ARCHAEOLOGICAL DATABASE" by Upinder Singh: This article examines the cultural developments in the post-Harappan period, including the Cemetery H Culture and its possible connection to Indo-Aryan migrations.

"The Copper Hoard Culture and the Aryans" by B.B. Lal: This article presents the case for associating the Copper Hoard Culture with Indo-Aryan migrations, based on shared features with Central Asian cultures.

"The Painted Grey Ware Culture" by R.S. Sharma: This book provides a detailed study of the Painted Grey Ware Culture, including its chronology, distribution, and relationship with other cultures in South Asia. It also addresses the ongoing debate about its association with Indo-Aryan migrations.

Regardless of the on-going debate on cautious approach on associating these cultures with Indo-Aryan movements, the current sentence with "south India" doesn't make any sense at all, and it appears to be a typo. Hence my simple request. Lekhak (talk) 18:36, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Look at the locations of those cultures. They have nothing to do with south India: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cemetery_H_culture#/media/File:Rigvedic_geography.jpg

This whole subcontinent is South Asia. South India is the a small part of South Asia (south of India), which has nothing to do with Gandhara Grave, Cemetery H, Painted Grey Ware, and Copper Hoard Culture.

Hence my attempt to correct what appears to be a simple typo. Lekhak (talk) 18:49, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Map of these cultures in the North West corner has nothing to do with south India

Lekhak (talk) 19:00, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

"south India" in this sentence doesn't make any sense. "South Asia" does. It appears to be a typo, hence my simple correction.

Regardless of the controversy, The Gandhara Grave, Cemetery H, Copper Hoard and Painted Grey Ware cultures within South Asia is generally conjectured to be associated with Indo-Aryan movements all over the literature. For instance:

"Aryans in the Archaeological Record: The Evidence Inside the Subcontinent" by J.F. Heinen: This chapter from the book "The Quest for the Origins of Vedic Culture" delves into the archaeological evidence for Indo-Aryan presence in South Asia, with a specific focus on the Gandhara Grave Culture.

UNDERSTANDING PATTERNS OF CULTURAL DEVELOPMENT IN THE POST-HARAPPAN PERIOD ( ND MILLENNIUM TO 600 BCE): A STUDY ON ARCHAEOLOGICAL DATABASE" by Upinder Singh: This article examines the cultural developments in the post-Harappan period, including the Cemetery H Culture and its possible connection to Indo-Aryan migrations.

"The Copper Hoard Culture and the Aryans" by B.B. Lal: This article presents the case for associating the Copper Hoard Culture with Indo-Aryan migrations, based on shared features with Central Asian cultures.

"The Painted Grey Ware Culture" by R.S. Sharma: This book provides a detailed study of the Painted Grey Ware Culture, including its chronology, distribution, and relationship with other cultures in South Asia. It also addresses the ongoing debate about its association with Indo-Aryan migrations.

Regardless of the on-going debate on cautious approach on associating these cultures with Indo-Aryan movements, the current sentence with "south India" doesn't make any sense at all, and it appears to be a typo.

• This was added by @Joshua Jonathan: in this diff. --RegentsPark (comment) 19:51, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Done. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 20:07, 28 January 2024 (UTC)