Talk:List of Naruto antagonists

==

Zabuza is the first antagonist introduced?

Last time I checked it was Mizuki, as he was the antagonist of the first chapter. Zabuza was the first major antagonist to be in more than one chapter, but overall, that statement in incorrect. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.232.242.232 (talk) 16:53, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Pain is not the Leader

I think we can all see that if Pain takes orders from someone else, he isn't the leader. And since Madara founded Akatsuki, that makes him leader. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.217.220.218 (talk) 03:26, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

That's too simple. The thing is that Madara refers to PAIN as the leader. This means we can't just say that Madara is the leader, even if Pain does as he says. 62.63.204.131 (talk) 15:52, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Pain is still the "leader" Tobi is still a member

Madara, again

"His plans foiled once again, he returned to Konoha in secret, training Itachi Uchiha and later assisted him in slaughtering all of the remaining Uchiha except for Sasuke Uchiha". Is there a source for this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.233.246.88 (talk) 07:53, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Madara

how come it says that madara did attack the village with the nine-tails?

it has not been comfirmed if it is true. so why is that put on there?

Huh? That's unusually verbalized, but I'll try to give a satisfactional answer... Itachi stated in chapter 385 that Madara tamed and controlled the Kyuubi, in the same chapter, Sasuke revealed that the secret message in the Nakano shrine about the Sharingan's ultimate purpose was to controll the Kyuubi, and so we can only assume that that is what Madara did... But while still on the subject of Madara, I'd like to change the statement of him being immortal on the grounds that no such statement was made in the original raw version of the manga, only in the fanmade translation. 217.208.24.113 (talk) 14:35, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Is it a case of a completely fanmade concept, or is "immortal" not the most accurate of words? ~SnapperTo 18:50, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

In chapter 385, Itachi calls Madara a 不滅の男 (fumetsu no otoko). Fumetsu means immortal, undying, or indestructible. JadziaLover (talk) 21:16, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Then, aside from perhaps changing it to "Itachi states that Madara is an immortal", the article is fine. ~SnapperTo 21:50, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Speaking (or rather typing, whatever) of Madara, I'd like to know where it was stated that Madara returned "at only a fraction of his former strength". Sounds like OR to me... 217.208.24.113 (talk) 12:58, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

People assumed that from Hisshouburaiken's translation: "Madara is a pathetic shell of his former self". It's worth noting that none of the other translators said this. He was called a loser or failure but never stated to be weaker. Is it just me, but whenever there's a translation issue, it always seems to be Hisshou? The Tobi/Madara fiasco in chapter 364, "invincible" when there's no mention, and now this pathetic shell stuff. He adds or omits words at his convenience I think. Wikiuser6 (talk) 16:46, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

No, he just doesn't translate very literally and he tries to translate as quickly as he can. This causes a number of misinterpretations and mistakes by both him and his readers. He usually is quite quick to correct them if he sees fit, though.

Two other examples of his misinterpretations would be him saying the Four-tails uses many different elemental fusions, while it really said the Yonbi uses a new element called Yōton (Melting Element). He also said Madara was considered the strongest shinobi, while it should have been the Senju clan that was called the strongest

No matter what, HisshouBuraiKen is still a very good translator. Just one that prefers easy readability over being literal and speed over accuracy. JadziaLover (talk) 23:46, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Is "a fraction of his former strength" incorrect then? ~SnapperTo 23:55, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Itachi says 「今のマダラは負け犬だ…」, which literally means "The present Madara is a loser". Even more literally, it would be "The Madara of today is a defeated dog". 負け犬 is a common expression for "loser," or "underdog" and is most commenly used to refer to the person who is most likely to lose a competition. In this case, the competition between Madara and Itachi, over who will reach the true height of the Uchiha's power.

Personally, I don't think it really says anything about Madara's strength, but more about Madara's state of mind and how Itachi thinks himself superior over Madara.

So yes, "a fraction of his former self" would be incorrect, in my eyes. JadziaLover (talk) 00:28, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Why is the a link to Tobi under Madara's entry? This hasn't been confirmed. Even if Tobi says he is Madara, it doesn't mean that its true. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.197.252.253 (talk) 23:07, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

What was the new eye technique that Itachi mentions Madara acquired after taking his brother's eyes?

______________________________

There really needs to be emphasis in Madara's section that he had the Permanent Mangekyo Sharingan, the Kyuubi at his disposal and a Space/Time jutsu greater than the Fourth's, yet he still lost against the Shodai Hokage. AS it stands, it just glosses over the facts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.36.16.94 (talk) 01:09, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Chapter 399 says Madara did have control over the Kyuubi, but that was during the battle with the First Hokage. The attack that began the series (where the Kyuubi was sealed inside Naruto) was just a "natural" disaster, or so Madara says... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.26.133.248 (talk) 15:04, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

And at the same time, Jiraiya and Itachi would have us believe that Madara actually did summon it 16 years before. So it's impossible to know who to believe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.99.169.251 (talk) 16:29, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Madara said his brother willingly gave him his eyes, and that he did everything he did in order to protect the Uchiha, not out of personal lust for power. He only went psycho when the Uchiha turned against him and sided with the Hokage. That kinda makes him an antihero, like Itachi, instead of a villain, doesn't it?

Yeah Madara's really looking a lot more protagonistic, but we cannot forget he's after the main character (Naruto's) life, making him an antagonist (still), regardless of reasoning. Honestly, he's the villain in the current storyline but the hero in the past storylines. I motion his article be moved into the List of minor Naruto characters where it's more appropriate. AnimeNikkaJamal (talk) 00:24, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

It seems more like he's trying to sound innocent so as to be appealing to Sasuke. The fact that he contradicts two other characters in regards to the demon fox's attack on Konoha attests to that. Regardless, he's still a textbook example of an antagonist (founder of Akatsuki, opposed First Hokage, keeping Naruto from Sasuke, etc.) ~SnapperTo 02:44, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Having been able to tame and control the Kyuubi (which is ALL Itachi said) doesn't automatically mean he was responsible for all of its actions. As seen in the most recent chapter, he apparently used the Kyuubi during his fight with the First Hokage... but there's no proof at all that he was responsible for its later attack. Jiraiya speculated about it, but that's all it was: Speculation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.99.127.210 (talk) 17:21, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Itachi specifically says Madara was responsible for the demon fox's attack in chapter 386. He was not speculating. ~SnapperTo 18:07, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

True, but even so, Madara said his brother gave him his eyes. Although what Itachi showed Sasuke says something completely different. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.157.68.40 (talk) 19:29, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Itachi's account of the eye transfer doesn't necessarily differ; even if Madara's brother willingly gave up his eyes he'd still be screaming in agony. Similarly, he may not have supported the idea until after his eyes were gone. Regardless, the article supports both accounts of the fox's attack. ~SnapperTo 20:40, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

What Itachi showed Sasuke was Madara reaching towards his terrified-looking brother's eyes, apologising, and then his new Uber-Mangekyo. What Madara showed Sasuke was his brother smiling with blood streaming out of his empty eye sockets. The two stories don't co-relate. If Madara's brother willingly gave up his eyes, he wouldn't have looked so terrified. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.26.133.248 (talk) 15:54, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Everyone seems to forget that the characters are NOT OMNISCIENT NARRATORS. You all read into what they say far too much, and take every word at face value. Itachi said what he thought was the case, Madara gave his version. They don't correlate because they're coming from CHARACTERS with different motives and knowledge bases.140.32.20.195 (talk) 14:23, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

What I'm getting at isd that unless Madara's playing innocent with Sasuke to gain his trust, then his version of the event is probably more correct than Itachi's because he was the one who did it! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.26.133.248 (talk) 20:24, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

How Itachi Died

Madara said he was dying of a disease, and used medicine to prolong his life in chapter 401. I guess this means he has lung cancer or tuberculosis, because he was coughing up blood. What do you think? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.26.133.248 (talk) 15:03, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Akahoshi

You say Naruto kills Akahoshi in battle, but if you listen to the anime, Tsunade says that Akahoshi and his henchmen receive punishment by the village.....so lets change the little mistake please^^

Mist servant vs. Haze clone

Is there any real advantage that one of these jutsus has over the other?

Doto Kazahana

I saw the end part there is no way he is alive first he had his mouthn open in shock mnost have fallen 100 feet down and had blood in his chest.

Zabuza Momochi Alive?

Under the References and the box with the choices like Sasuke, Naruto and Akatsuki it says: But is found alive in later manga

Im assuming it means Zabuza but its known that hes dead so who is alive thats thought to be dead? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.46.140.237 (talk) 18:40, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Zabuza was still in the ground when Suigetsu went to retrieve his sword from the on top of his grave. --Pottski (talk) 23:16, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Zabuza and Haku have been seen alive in a recent episode from the year of 2008. It was a short clip, probably five to ten seconds long... Animine (talk) 22:09, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Haku & Zabuza

Didn't Haku and zabuza both have their own pages before? Maybe it's a good idea to put them on this page, but i'm just trying to make sure i haven't entirely lost my mind. Ichliebezuko (talk) 14:29, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I think you're right. I'm almost positive they both had thier own page. Why did they get moved here? Plus, what happened to the pictures of them? A pyrate's life for me... (talk) 17:03, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

If I am not very much misteken they were merged because they did not meet WP:FICT guidlines. --67.68.154.54 (talk) 05:07, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia may not have rights to thier pictures. Animine (talk) 22:09, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Is Hidan Really Dead?

From what i have heared Hidan was cut to bits By Shikimaru Nara and then buried. My Question is why didn't the Akatsuki Dig up the body? Hidan Is inmortal, but if his limbs get seperated they need to be put back together to heal. Whats the point of Inmortality if you can still is a way for you to die??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Itachi4312 (talk • contribs) 01:49, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

This really isn't the appropriate place to be asking, but whatever. Hidan was buried in a location that only Nara clan members can reach, hence why he hasn't been dug up. That's really the only way you can get rid of an immortal character in a work of fiction without de-immortalizing them. ~SnapperTo 03:55, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

If Akatsuki tries to dig him up, they will go to war with the entire leaf village, and he's alive, but not able to move. . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.232.242.232 (talk) 06:31, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Pein no longer has any use for him, —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.203.194.157 (talk) 18:41, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Sound Four or Five?

Since there are five members (Kimmimaro, Kidomaru, Tayuya, Jirobo, and Sakon/Ukon) should it be called the Sound Five? There were originally only 4 (Kimmimaro came in later, though Sakon did make a reference to him while fighting Sasuke, "Even Kimmimaro woulda been better than this.") but still... Noodle2D23 (talk) 18:58, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

I would say use sound four since they that is the name that they were called during most of the series and is the most common name for the group. I believe that a breif mention that they were once called the Sound Five when Kummimaro was a member would be sufficient. --76.66.184.175 (talk) 01:21, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Kimimaro specifically stated that "now that I'm here, we're called the Sound Five" or something to that effect, didn't he? If so, no question. Sound Five. StardustDragon 18:14, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

It was just a comment and in that moment they would be "Sound Three" because some of them died.--Tintor2 (talk) 18:16, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Actually, if I'm not mistaken, all of them died. Saskon and Ukon were killed by Kankuro, Tayuya by Temari, Kimmimaro by his sickness or whatever, and I didn't see the other episodes, but I think Kidomaru and Jirobo died too, didn't they? Noodle2D23 (talk) 19:04, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Breifly about the sound 5 mention. Why Kiminaro did mention that name it is still NOT the common name for the group (Sound 4 was used more frequantly in the series) therefore it should not be used due to WP:COMMONNAME. A breif mention of the name Sound 5 may be apppropiate but using that as the main title is not. --76.66.180.128 (talk) 03:25, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

As far as I know, the only time the "Sound Five" has been mentioned was when Kimimaro asked Tayuya what happened to the other three members of the "Former Sound Five". This implies that Kimimaro isn't a member of the Sound Five any more (making it the Sound Four). In other words, They used to be called the Sound Five (when Kimimaro was still a member, probably before he got sick), but were called the Sound Four at least since they first appeared in the manga. So they should be called the Sound Four in this article, with a brief mention of the Sound Five in Kimimaro's entry. --JadziaLover (talk) 14:47, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Sasuke as a Villain?

It's stupid to have him in the villain section when all he really wanted was revenge for his clan. Sasuke didn't do anything wrong when he went to Orochimaru for training. He didn't really betray everyone because he was just doing what he had to do and Orochimaru had him messed up from the cursed seal. Sasuke is still a protagonist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.154.162.97 (talk) 05:07, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Half complaint/agreement, he might as well be the protagonist with all the freaking attention he's getting. Damn. Ok, that's out of my system. Unfortunately we don't have a category for "emo rogue" at the moment, so villain has to do. He ain't exactly been good about cooperating, after all. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 05:44, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Snake is what is categorized as a "villain". Sasuke is merely a member of Snake. ~SnapperTo 18:28, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Right, please elaborate how Snake has been villainous. Have they pillaged a village? killed or harmed anyone? Its an organization formed by Sasuke for the sole purpose of tracking and defeating Itachi. If anything they've been helpful to the Naruto world, defeating an Akatsuki member and freeing prisoners of Orochimaru. They are far from being a villains organization. Unless you can provide proof they've something to deserve that category. 134.121.250.173 (talk) 04:42, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Sasuke is a criminal, technically speaking. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.232.242.232 (talk) 06:32, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

By the same token Haku isn't a villain, as he avoided killing others and only tried to please Zabuza. He still worked against the protagonists and did things of questionable nature. This list is the most convenient place for Haku and Snake to be, so here is where they are. ~SnapperTo 23:19, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

There are many gray areas... Animine (talk) 22:09, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

perhaps this article would be better labelled "List of Naruto Antagonists". that would get rid of the villainous aspect and aptly describe both sasuke and haku. --24.214.236.85 (talk) 14:21, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Well now that all the antagonistic characters with the exception of our one villainous GA are covered, I could go for something like that. Sasuke9031 (talk) 18:54, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Sasuke was the enemy in the last major battle of Part I, why is there any question to this? He has his own article anyways, so this shouldn't matter. StardustDragon 18:16, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, technically, you could consider Haku an anti-villain, and Zabuza a true villain (until he finally loses his ability to hide his emotions. Then he goes anti-villain, or maybe hero.) Snake is acting against Akatsuki, so technically they are anti-heros. Juugo technically has some anti-villain to him until meeting Sasuke: he has a chemical imbalance that sometimes makes him homicidal, but his sane side never wanted to do any of it.

antagonist is really the preferable word here. the definition of antagonist is that they are at some point set against the main hero of the story. that fits everyone on the list. --Wongba (talk) 21:15, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Orochimaru in Akatsuki

I moved Orochimaru's entry from Other to Akatsuki, seeing that the rest of the former Akatsuki members are there. focoma (talk) 06:56, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Orochimaru is a former member of Akatsuki in the whole series, in the normal series timeline he is sound ninja so I decided to revert it. Mentioning he was part of Akatsuki is enough.--Tintor2 (talk) 19:14, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Put him in both. StardustDragon 18:16, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Itachi Main article

I believe there was a main article for Itachi. I wonder why it was removed. He is one of the main characters, not just a villain. As of latest chapters, It's been confirmed. He should have a main article. --Fotte (talk) 07:13, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

We've been over this I don't know how many times. Itachi was merged because he failed WP:FICT. If you can find a way to refute all the previous arguments and satisfy WP:FICT, then by all means. Not very likely, but you never know. Sasuke9031 (talk) 07:27, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Here is my draft of reception if you would like to help. User talk:Tintor2/ draft# Reception.--Tintor2 (talk) 16:23, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

I guess that Itachi may get his article since in that draft I could get more things of reception. However, it needs conception information, just see a GA article Aang that has more or less the same reception as Itachi but it has more conception.--Tintor2 (talk) 16:54, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, yeah, if we get that conception info, then yeah, he'll definitely get it back, looking at Aang's. I'll get started looking as soon as I stop feeling as emo as I am right now. Sasuke9031 (talk) 03:54, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks and lol.--Tintor2 (talk) 15:35, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

I will also look to increase the reception.Tintor2 (talk) 15:51, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks folks, i will try to help also. --Fotte (talk) 08:09, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Update

Latest chapter, Madara informs Sasuke that he, in fact, did not summon the Kyuubi to attack Konoha, and that it was a "natural disaster". I'm not really good with editing, so someone should change that. --74.167.170.215 (talk) 17:00, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Minor Error in Zetsu

"The black half speaks in Katakana in the Japanese manga and is voiced by Michael Sorich in the English anime, while the white speaks Kanji and Kana and is voiced by Brian Beacock. Both sides are voiced by Nobuo Tobita in the Japanese anime, with the black half being given a much deeper voice than the white."

should be revised to ..

"In the Japanese manga the black sides speaks Katakana ,while the white speaks Kanji and Kana, In the English Anime the black half is voiced by Michael Sorich in the English anime, while the white is voiced by Brian Beacock. Both sides are voiced by Nobuo Tobita in the Japanese anime, with the black half being given a much deeper voice than the white.--"76.104.223.234 (talk) 23:09, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Are you saying that something is incorrect, or that it should just be reworded? Because I'm not seeing much of a difference in your excerpts. ~SnapperTo 18:07, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Why would we change a perfectly grammatical excerpt to your horribly-punctuated and crappily-capitalized version? StardustDragon 18:17, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Itachi's Mangekyou Transfer

There were essentially three main translations of the chapter where Madara tells Sasuke that Itachi gave his Mangekyou to him. In Itachi's section here, it says that Itachi gave Sasuke all of his techniques. However, that translation was the odd one out, for the other two said things along the lines of... "the power of his own eyes" and "his own eye power." Point is, it's still unknown whether Sasuke has all three techniques or just Amaterasu. Just as it's unknown as to whether Sasuke can only activate this Mangekyou when he sees Madara's own sharingan. Thought I'd share that, since I can't edit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.99.169.251 (talk) 03:44, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Can someone please explain this so me? It's not very well worded.Megnetic (talk) 23:48, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

This statement under Itachi's section: "Itachi gives his Mangekyo Sharingan and all of its abilities to him in an effort to keep Sasuke safe and to help him someday kill Madara Uchiha." It's not certain that ALL of the Mangekyo techniques were given to Sasuke, because only one out of the many translations of that chapter said it was all the jutsu; the others simply said something like "Itachi gave you his jutsu," leaving it unknown whether Sasuke has all three of Itachi's techniques, or just Amaterasu.

Co...Co...Re-TAR-Doh.

Why the haaaaalle deed the Akotski page get merrrHERRRged with the vilLAMES page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.140.51.87 (talk) 23:30, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

No clue. I guess they felt that it didn't deserve it's own page, even though it did. Jazz Band Member (talk) 20:28, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Because it didn't have nearly any references or assertions of notability, and without the merge the info would be deleted altogether? The info's still here, what are you whining about?Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 21:09, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

See responses above. Additionally, consult a dictionary to make your quivels somewhat respectable. StardustDragon 02:54, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Look I say the people of Wikipedia should have free reign on the Akatsuki page. Let the people edit! Wiz_Baconerrd

It was protected BECAUSE they had free reign. Jazz Band Member (talk) 10:15, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Haku = Shiro?

Was Haku really called Shiro in the Malaysian dub? I can't find a reliable source confirming this bit. Reason why I'm asking is because the character is listed on Shiro with this uncited claim. Thoughts? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 18:41, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Madara's story

The page seems to accept Madara's story that he is telling Itachi as truth. He might be lying. Shouldn't most of the stuff be worded to make it clear that this is all just speculation? Voretus (talk) 00:24, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

It's not speculation, it's a plot dump. If he's revealed to be lying later, we correct it, but it's not speculation to add his version of the story. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 00:35, 21 May 2008 (UTC)