Autariatae and Talk:2007–2008 financial crisis: Difference between pages
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The '''Autariatae''' (Αὐταριάται in [[Greek language|Greek]]) or '''Autariates''' were an [[Illyrians|Illyrian]] tribe that became prominent between the 6th and 4th centuries BC. Their presence in the western and central parts of the [[Balkans]] has been attested by a wide range of historical data, philological relics and an abundance of material evidence. Research on the Autariates and Glasinac culture of the Old [[Iron Age]] started in the late 19th century. Interest in the subject significantly increased during the end of the 20th century. However, in spite of intensive research, a comprehensive study of the Autariates has not been produced to this present day. |
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==What's needed is a portal== |
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This is worst financial/economic crisis since Great Depression. At first, I was going to suggest merging this article with sub-prime mortgage crisis one, but that page is getting pretty darn big which reflects the scope of the problem. Europe is also experiencing the real estate burst as well. |
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[[User:Golgo-13|Golgo-13]] ([[User talk:Golgo-13|talk]]) 05:24, 24 September 2008 (UTC) |
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:A portal would be useful, perhaps even a wikiproject. This matter, while difficult, is probably one of the most significant events of the 21st century. I'm quite disappointed with its treatment on the Main Page. [[User:Fred Bauder|Fred]] [[User talk:Fred Bauder|Talk]] 12:40, 30 September 2008 (UTC) |
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::Fred, you and your friends have made a good start on this but what I miss is more geographical perspective. Much of the article is based on the evolving situation in the United States. It is not easy to find information about Europe (including individual countries), Russia, China and the rest of Asia. Would it be useful to add separate chapters on these or perhaps even links to new articles? And how would a portal cope with this rapidly evolving situation?- [[User:Ipigott|Ipigott]] ([[User talk:Ipigott|talk]]) 07:15, 5 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::I think both a portal and a dedicated WikiProject are quite justified for this event. Perhaps a WikiProject first to consolidate manpower. __[[User:Meco|meco]] ([[User talk:Meco|talk]]) 22:03, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
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== |
==Hourly changes== |
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This situation is changing hourly as the crisis has come to a head. [[User:Fred Bauder|Fred]] [[User talk:Fred Bauder|Talk]] 14:21, 19 September 2008 (UTC) |
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The origins of the Autariatae can be traced from the proto-Illyrian populations that used to inhabit southeastern [[Bosnia (region)|Bosnia]] and the Upper [[Podrinje]] area during the [[Bronze Age]]. The movement of the "urnfield people" considerably altered the ethnic and cultural makeup of Podunavlje. However, this particular movement did not significantly affect the area inhabited by the Glasinac culture of the late Bronze Age. The stabilization that ensued in the aftermath of the movement triggered the rapid ethnic, cultural and political development of the Autariatae community. As a result, social and political structures of the Autariatae community became more complex and started developing from tribal structures of organization into principalities with established territories from the end of the 8th century BC. Immensely rich graves in which members of local dynasties had been buried were found in a number of [[tumuli]] dating from the 7th and 6th centuries BC.{{Fact|date=February 2008}} |
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== article == |
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Due to numerous external political and economic influences, the Autariatae communities unified into a single political entity during the late 6th century BC. Once united, the Autariatae started to mainly expand eastward into territories controlled by the [[Triballi]]. Moreover, they expanded southward where they defeated the [[Ardiaei]], their old rivals,<ref>Wilkes, J. J. ''The Illyrians'', 1992, p. 223, ISBN 0631198075. ''The salt source that was a cause of conflict between the Illyrian Ardiaei and Autariatae may be that at Orahovica in the upper Neretva valley near Konjic.''</ref> in struggles for control over pastures and salty springs.<ref>Wilkes, J. J. ''The Illyrians'', 1992, p. 139, ISBN 0631198075. ''...describes a long-running feud between the Autariatae and the Ardiaei over the possession of a salt-source near their common border.''</ref> Activities of the Autariatae at the turn of the 6th and 5th centuries BC profoundly influenced the peoples who were directly affected by their expansion. The [[Ardiaei]] were moved toward the coasts and the [[Triballi]] to the east. The expansion of the Autariatae enabled them to achieve hegemonic control over one part of the interior of the Balkan Peninsula. The leading class of the Autariatae society reached the peak of its political and economic development indicated through many great luxurious royal tumuli and graves created during the 5th century BC. [[Strabo]]’s comment on the Autariatae as "the once greatest and most powerful Illyrian people" most likely refers to this period. Their peak of development was followed by the gradual decline of the Autariatae ending in 310 BC with their sudden disappearance<ref>Wilkes, J. J. ''The Illyrians'', 1992, p. 145, ISBN 0631198075. ''While the once formidable Autariatae had vanished long before the Roman conquest, and the Triballi, Scordisci and Moesi all declined to insignificant remnants, the Dardani...''</ref> due to [[Celts|Celtic]] migrations.<ref>Wilkes, J. J. ''The Illyrians'', 1992, p. 75, ISBN 0631198075. ''...Alföldy suggests that this Celtic component may derive from the impact of the migrating Celts on the Illyrian Autariatae, but it now seems that they dwelt not there but further south between the `real Illyrians' around the Lake of ...''</ref> |
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why does this incredibly re-hashed article about the sub-prime mortgage crisis need to exist?.I think the whole situation just encompasses the crisis itself....really odd to just use such a generalized tittle too...[[User:Rodrigue|Rodrigue]] ([[User talk:Rodrigue|talk]]) 06:09, 20 September 2008 (UTC) |
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==Cultural practices== |
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:When the crisis began to affect the entire financial system, the emphasis needed to be changed to reflect that. This article is about a world wide financial crisis caused by the subprime mortgage crisis, not about the crisis itself. Detailed information about all the different sorts of mortgages, regulation of them, how and why they were securitized belongs there. What belongs here is information about the general financial crisis which resulted. [[User:Fred Bauder|Fred]] [[User talk:Fred Bauder|Talk]] 12:30, 20 September 2008 (UTC) |
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A standard practice of the Autariatae entailed killing their weak and wounded. This was meant to prevent meek individuals from falling into the hands of enemy tribes.<ref>Wilkes, J. J. ''The Illyrians'', 1992, p. 243, ISBN 0631198075. ''...the skull of an enemy as a drinking tankard. The practice of mutilating prisoners may be the reason why the Autariatae killed their own weak and wounded, so that they did not fall into the hands of the enemy live and...''</ref> |
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::What you call rehashing is a broad outline. The generalized title relates to the information that the liquidity crisis and bailout efforts to cope with it date to August 9, 2007. [[User:Fred Bauder|Fred]] [[User talk:Fred Bauder|Talk]] 12:42, 20 September 2008 (UTC) |
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==Scope of the article== |
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The Autariatae left a legacy of material wealth. So far, more than 100 castle ruins were identified to have been inhabited by the Autariatae, as well as thousands of tumuli in which they had been buried. Movable materials (mostly jewelry and weapons) reveal all specific features associated with the ethno-cultural originality of the Autariatae. The Autariatae established a continuous tradition of manufacturing metal and ceramic products. Artifacts consisting of metal sheets with luxurious golden and silver belts of Mramorac type indicate the complexity of this tradition.{{Fact|date=February 2008}} |
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Please see this quote, from ''The New York Times'' news analysis piece "But Will It Work?" [http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/business/21econ.html?pagewanted=2]: |
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"“What we’re looking at now is simply an amplified version of what we’ve been in since last August,” Mr. Bernstein added. “You’re witnessing a sudden death instead of a slow bleed.” |
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The Autariatae are a classic example of a "highland" people who also show all the characteristics of a "highland" mentality (i.e. preservation of old beliefs). Case in point, the Autariatae have strongly maintained their burial customs of burning the dead in tumuli, which have not changed until the end of the Glasinac culture. Archaeological remains indicate that the religious life of the Autariatae was influenced by both their ancestor cult and the cult of their solar god. One can find the numerous evidences of the solar cult throughout the territories once controlled by the Autariatae. The economy of the Autariatae was based on cattle breeding, metalwork, handicraft and trade. Because of its need for [[Greece|Greek]] and [[Italy|Italic]] goods, this Illyrian tribe was one of the biggest trade partners of the western and central Balkans to both Greek and Italic traders between the 7th and 6th centuries BC.{{Fact|date=February 2008}} |
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Jared Bernstein is a senior economist at the labor-oriented Economic Policy Institute |
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==References== |
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{{reflist}} |
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[[User:Fred Bauder|Fred]] [[User talk:Fred Bauder|Talk]] 09:45, 21 September 2008 (UTC) |
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[[Category:Illyrian tribes]] |
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[[Category:Ancient peoples]] |
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[[Category:Indo-European peoples]] |
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[[Category:History of Bosnia and Herzegovina]] |
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== Cause == |
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{{commons|Illyria & Illyrians}} |
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:''was caused by the abolition of the [[uptick rule]] in July 2007'' |
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== See also == |
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*[[List of Illyrian tribes]] |
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I removed this dubious claim; a multitude of causes have been cited for the crisis in press reports. -- [[User:Beland|Beland]] ([[User talk:Beland|talk]]) 06:06, 25 September 2008 (UTC) |
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You are free to remove it but it is obvious it was the sole cause of the crisis, though I concede it is difficult to understand; furthermore arguing the media cites many causes does not negate it. |
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I concede causes have many tributaries nonetheless had the Uptick Rule not been abolished on July 6th, shorters in finance stocks would have had to uptick and could not have shorted down banking stocks. |
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see eg a press report 4 weeks after it's abolition: |
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http://www.usatoday.com/money/markets/2007-08-09-volatility_N.htm <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/86.129.128.81|86.129.128.81]] ([[User talk:86.129.128.81|talk]]) 00:48, 28 September 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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LONGSHOT GEORGE:... it is my opinion that there is an unsigned article which allows new technology to become part of a-liquid-involvement at UN treasury levels - notice the liquidity of the technology market in comparrison and wonder how it can remain as confidently stable as does in markup ideologies - ths because it has weighleighed such involvements | my proof of this is UN resolution in 2005 mentions one [unicorn bias] technical to schooling importance where the rest of the resolutions become concerned with the war - either way somewhere 'mm' there is a peice of paper saying - sign this technical article towards entire treasury... <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/86.152.174.162|86.152.174.162]] ([[User talk:86.152.174.162|talk]]) 10:03, 9 October 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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==Merge proposal== |
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The proposed merger is inappropriate as the liquidity crisis surfaced in August, 2007 and has different causes and dynamics than the oil crisis and the food crisis which have been lumped together with the financial crisis in [[economic crisis of 2008]]. [[User:Fred Bauder|Fred]] [[User talk:Fred Bauder|Talk]] 02:31, 26 September 2008 (UTC) |
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*'''Oppose''' the proposed merger for now. -- [[User:Yellowdesk|Yellowdesk]] ([[User talk:Yellowdesk|talk]]) 03:07, 26 September 2008 (UTC) |
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*'''Oppose and differentiate''' these two could be very different articles, but they need names and leads which will fully differentiate them. 2008 article may be more properly called Economic cris'''E'''s of 2008, as it refers to many crises throughout the world. There are many financially centered articles which should be better linked and given a main article (probably here). The other article can act as a broader overview of economic issues throughout the world and their many causes. The titles of both articles are likely to change as events continue and become better understood. [[User:NJGW|NJGW]] ([[User talk:NJGW|talk]]) 03:21, 26 September 2008 (UTC) |
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*'''Oppose''' From the current perspective, the subjects are different, although related, with shared causes. Each seems of significance to merit its own article. Future events may dictate differently. --[[User:Rye1967|Rye1967]] ([[User talk:Rye1967|talk]]) 11:48, 26 September 2008 (UTC) |
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*'''Stongly Oppose''' ~127k hits in Google News for the term ''Bailout''. The article easily stands on it's own. Speedy this proposal, anyone? [[User:Ronnotel|Ronnotel]] ([[User talk:Ronnotel|talk]]) 14:05, 26 September 2008 (UTC) |
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*'''Merge or, preferably, distinguish names and leads''' As per NJGW the names and leads must differentiate the articles. If not, there will be perennial calls to merge. [[User:davidwr|davidwr]]/<small><small>([[User_talk:davidwr|talk]])/([[Special:Contributions/Davidwr|contribs]])/([[Special:Emailuser/davidwr|e-mail]])</small></small> 05:09, 27 September 2008 (UTC) |
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*'''comment'''I think a merge with [[Liquidity crisis of September 2008]] is much more appropriate, since the majority of the article here is all about that month. The [[Economic crisis of 2008]] is just a way of deal with nitpickers who didn't want that article to be called the 2008 global recession. See the link below to comment on this further. [[User:NJGW|NJGW]] ([[User talk:NJGW|talk]]) 20:16, 28 September 2008 (UTC) |
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* I agree with the above comment. It might also be helpful if each related article contains an appendix showing all related articles.--[[User:JohnnyB256|JohnnyB256]] ([[User talk:JohnnyB256|talk]]) 10:18, 29 September 2008 (UTC) |
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*'''Oppose, qualified.''' (if I have a say, not being a registered member). My reasoning is similar to Rye1967's. While causes are diverse and somewhat separate (there are common elements which contributed to all three), the current situation draws from each, in that each is escalating the others. At this point in time all three are interacting, and none can be resolved without taking into account the dynamics of the other two. Use this as the umbrella survey article, go into more detail in the others. -Tenebris <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/207.112.27.206|207.112.27.206]] ([[User talk:207.112.27.206|talk]]) 04:25, 30 September 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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*'''Oppose''' I've just added some more info about the effect this had in China. [[User talk:Hypnosadist|<small><sup><font color="#000">(<font color="#c20">Hypnosadist</font>)</font></sup></small>]] 11:24, 4 October 2008 (UTC) |
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== Merge proposal2 == |
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A discussion about this is already underway at [[Talk:Liquidity crisis of September 2008#Merger with Financial crisis of 2007-2008]]. Please discuss there. [[User:NJGW|NJGW]] ([[User talk:NJGW|talk]]) 19:12, 28 September 2008 (UTC) |
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(moved comment to the discussion linked to above to keep the discussion in one place) |
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== Proposal to remove the merge proposal templates == |
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{{resolved|Merge with [[Economic_crisis_of_2008]] - tag is gone; merge with [[Global financial crisis of September–October 2008]] (was Liquidity crisis of September 2008) - tag is also gone. So I have now struck through my proposal below. [[User:84user|84user]] ([[User talk:84user|talk]]) 08:57, 11 October 2008 (UTC)}}<strike>If there is no evident consensus for a merge, could the two templates be removed from the articles? The last comment was an oppose on 4 October for the first proposal, and a comment on 28 September for the second here which directs to [[Talk:Liquidity crisis of September 2008#Merger with Financial crisis of 2007-2008]] where the decision might be to just wait. I agree with the just wait opinion (for months or years). The [[Economic crisis of 2008]] appears to cover the economy (or at least should due to its title) while this one appears to list fiscal and monetary events, and also appears to have better worldwide coverage. If they are not to be merged, I agree the leads in both articles need to better clarify the difference. But, I'm not an expert on any of these subjects, so what do others think? -[[User:84user|84user]] ([[User talk:84user|talk]]) 21:50, 7 October 2008 (UTC)</strike> <small>(I struck through my proposal above, as resolved IMO) [[User:84user|84user]] ([[User talk:84user|talk]]) 08:57, 11 October 2008 (UTC)</small> |
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==Possible background cause== |
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[http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/03/business/03sec.html Agency’s ’04 Rule Let Banks Pile Up New Debt] [[User:Fred Bauder|Fred]] [[User talk:Fred Bauder|Talk]] 20:27, 3 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:A couple more for those interested: [http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/who_caused_the_economic_crisis.html Factcheck.org] and [http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=10413 Globalresearch.ca]. [[User:NJGW|NJGW]] ([[User talk:NJGW|talk]]) 08:49, 4 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::Also [http://www.breakingviews.com/bvBooks.aspx Breaking Views]. [[User:Fred Bauder|Fred]] [[User talk:Fred Bauder|Talk]] 13:24, 4 October 2008 (UTC) |
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Should some mention be made of Warren Buffett's interview with Charlie Rose in which he said a Depression is possible? [http://www.charlierose.com/shows/2008/10/01/1/an-exclusive-conversation-with-warren-buffett]--[[User:JohnnyB256|JohnnyB256]] ([[User talk:JohnnyB256|talk]]) 13:35, 4 October 2008 (UTC) |
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==Lead paragraph== |
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Forgive a newbie spouting off, but I'm wondering if perhaps the lead paragraph should be written differently. It begins by giving background, which is good but I think it belongs elsewhere. Perhaps the beginning should describe a bit more what this crisis is and what it has done. Does that make sense?--[[User:JohnnyB256|JohnnyB256]] ([[User talk:JohnnyB256|talk]]) 13:26, 4 October 2008 (UTC) |
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==Huge sections of this article were deleted== |
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Huge sections of this article were deleted. Was it vandalism? I thought the vote for merger was opposed and lost? |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Financial_crisis_of_2007-2008&diff=244134928&oldid=244121405 <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/71.131.4.194|71.131.4.194]] ([[User talk:71.131.4.194|talk]]) 15:28, 9 October 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:Yes, no, and yes (I think). The sections "Federal Reserve actions to lower interest rates and stimulate the economy" through to "Week of October 5, 2008" (with the detailed week by week events) were moved from [[Financial crisis of 2007-2008]] to [[Global financial crisis of September-October, 2008]] (used to be [[Liquidity crisis of September 2008]].) These were the two edits that made the move: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Financial_crisis_of_2007-2008&diff=244130657&oldid=244130299 diff1] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_financial_crisis_of_September-October,_2008&diff=prev&oldid=244131057 diff2]. The move looks Ok in that nothing was lost. See also [[Talk:Global financial crisis of September-October, 2008#Merger with Financial crisis of 2007-2008]]. -[[User:84user|84user]] ([[User talk:84user|talk]]) 19:27, 9 October 2008 (UTC) <small>I fixed last section moved. [[User:84user|84user]] ([[User talk:84user|talk]]) 19:32, 9 October 2008 (UTC)</small> |
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== Glad I came here == |
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Wow, I need to redirect [[Great Depression of 2008-2009]]. Another editor is trying to work on the same project, and you guys are much more along than he is. -- [[User:Crazysane|Matthew Glennon]] (<sup>[[User_Talk:Crazysane|T]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Crazysane|C]]</sub>\<sup>[[Special:DeletedContributions/Crazysane|D]]</sup>) 14:54, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:*I redirected said article here. It was dead in the water, and you have a lot of work done already. Great job, this is really how we need to cover the subject anyway. -- [[User:Crazysane|Matthew Glennon]] (<sup>[[User_Talk:Crazysane|T]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Crazysane|C]]</sub>\<sup>[[Special:DeletedContributions/Crazysane|D]]</sup>) 14:58, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:Wow, talk about needless fear mongering! Great depression of 2008-2009? [[User:LowLevelMason|LowLevelMason]] ([[User talk:LowLevelMason|talk]]) 21:02, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::Fear mongering? Maybe... [[wp:AFG|maybe not]] [http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122364752973823003.html?mod=googlenews_wsj], but more importantly it is definitely [[wp:CRYSTAL|commentary requiring a time machine]]. [[User:NJGW|NJGW]] ([[User talk:NJGW|talk]]) 21:05, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
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Revision as of 08:57, 11 October 2008
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What's needed is a portal
This is worst financial/economic crisis since Great Depression. At first, I was going to suggest merging this article with sub-prime mortgage crisis one, but that page is getting pretty darn big which reflects the scope of the problem. Europe is also experiencing the real estate burst as well. Golgo-13 (talk) 05:24, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
- A portal would be useful, perhaps even a wikiproject. This matter, while difficult, is probably one of the most significant events of the 21st century. I'm quite disappointed with its treatment on the Main Page. Fred Talk 12:40, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
- Fred, you and your friends have made a good start on this but what I miss is more geographical perspective. Much of the article is based on the evolving situation in the United States. It is not easy to find information about Europe (including individual countries), Russia, China and the rest of Asia. Would it be useful to add separate chapters on these or perhaps even links to new articles? And how would a portal cope with this rapidly evolving situation?- Ipigott (talk) 07:15, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
- I think both a portal and a dedicated WikiProject are quite justified for this event. Perhaps a WikiProject first to consolidate manpower. __meco (talk) 22:03, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
Hourly changes
This situation is changing hourly as the crisis has come to a head. Fred Talk 14:21, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
article
why does this incredibly re-hashed article about the sub-prime mortgage crisis need to exist?.I think the whole situation just encompasses the crisis itself....really odd to just use such a generalized tittle too...Rodrigue (talk) 06:09, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
- When the crisis began to affect the entire financial system, the emphasis needed to be changed to reflect that. This article is about a world wide financial crisis caused by the subprime mortgage crisis, not about the crisis itself. Detailed information about all the different sorts of mortgages, regulation of them, how and why they were securitized belongs there. What belongs here is information about the general financial crisis which resulted. Fred Talk 12:30, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
Scope of the article
Please see this quote, from The New York Times news analysis piece "But Will It Work?" [1]:
"“What we’re looking at now is simply an amplified version of what we’ve been in since last August,” Mr. Bernstein added. “You’re witnessing a sudden death instead of a slow bleed.”
Jared Bernstein is a senior economist at the labor-oriented Economic Policy Institute
Fred Talk 09:45, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
Cause
- was caused by the abolition of the uptick rule in July 2007
I removed this dubious claim; a multitude of causes have been cited for the crisis in press reports. -- Beland (talk) 06:06, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
You are free to remove it but it is obvious it was the sole cause of the crisis, though I concede it is difficult to understand; furthermore arguing the media cites many causes does not negate it.
I concede causes have many tributaries nonetheless had the Uptick Rule not been abolished on July 6th, shorters in finance stocks would have had to uptick and could not have shorted down banking stocks.
see eg a press report 4 weeks after it's abolition:
http://www.usatoday.com/money/markets/2007-08-09-volatility_N.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.129.128.81 (talk) 00:48, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
LONGSHOT GEORGE:... it is my opinion that there is an unsigned article which allows new technology to become part of a-liquid-involvement at UN treasury levels - notice the liquidity of the technology market in comparrison and wonder how it can remain as confidently stable as does in markup ideologies - ths because it has weighleighed such involvements | my proof of this is UN resolution in 2005 mentions one [unicorn bias] technical to schooling importance where the rest of the resolutions become concerned with the war - either way somewhere 'mm' there is a peice of paper saying - sign this technical article towards entire treasury... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.152.174.162 (talk) 10:03, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
Merge proposal
The proposed merger is inappropriate as the liquidity crisis surfaced in August, 2007 and has different causes and dynamics than the oil crisis and the food crisis which have been lumped together with the financial crisis in economic crisis of 2008. Fred Talk 02:31, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
- Oppose the proposed merger for now. -- Yellowdesk (talk) 03:07, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
- Oppose and differentiate these two could be very different articles, but they need names and leads which will fully differentiate them. 2008 article may be more properly called Economic crisEs of 2008, as it refers to many crises throughout the world. There are many financially centered articles which should be better linked and given a main article (probably here). The other article can act as a broader overview of economic issues throughout the world and their many causes. The titles of both articles are likely to change as events continue and become better understood. NJGW (talk) 03:21, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
- Oppose From the current perspective, the subjects are different, although related, with shared causes. Each seems of significance to merit its own article. Future events may dictate differently. --Rye1967 (talk) 11:48, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
- Stongly Oppose ~127k hits in Google News for the term Bailout. The article easily stands on it's own. Speedy this proposal, anyone? Ronnotel (talk) 14:05, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
- Merge or, preferably, distinguish names and leads As per NJGW the names and leads must differentiate the articles. If not, there will be perennial calls to merge. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 05:09, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
- commentI think a merge with Liquidity crisis of September 2008 is much more appropriate, since the majority of the article here is all about that month. The Economic crisis of 2008 is just a way of deal with nitpickers who didn't want that article to be called the 2008 global recession. See the link below to comment on this further. NJGW (talk) 20:16, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
- I agree with the above comment. It might also be helpful if each related article contains an appendix showing all related articles.--JohnnyB256 (talk) 10:18, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
- Oppose, qualified. (if I have a say, not being a registered member). My reasoning is similar to Rye1967's. While causes are diverse and somewhat separate (there are common elements which contributed to all three), the current situation draws from each, in that each is escalating the others. At this point in time all three are interacting, and none can be resolved without taking into account the dynamics of the other two. Use this as the umbrella survey article, go into more detail in the others. -Tenebris —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.112.27.206 (talk) 04:25, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
- Oppose I've just added some more info about the effect this had in China. (Hypnosadist) 11:24, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
Merge proposal2
A discussion about this is already underway at Talk:Liquidity crisis of September 2008#Merger with Financial crisis of 2007-2008. Please discuss there. NJGW (talk) 19:12, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
(moved comment to the discussion linked to above to keep the discussion in one place)
Proposal to remove the merge proposal templates
ResolvedIf there is no evident consensus for a merge, could the two templates be removed from the articles? The last comment was an oppose on 4 October for the first proposal, and a comment on 28 September for the second here which directs to Talk:Liquidity crisis of September 2008#Merger with Financial crisis of 2007-2008 where the decision might be to just wait. I agree with the just wait opinion (for months or years). The Economic crisis of 2008 appears to cover the economy (or at least should due to its title) while this one appears to list fiscal and monetary events, and also appears to have better worldwide coverage. If they are not to be merged, I agree the leads in both articles need to better clarify the difference. But, I'm not an expert on any of these subjects, so what do others think? -84user (talk) 21:50, 7 October 2008 (UTC) (I struck through my proposal above, as resolved IMO) 84user (talk) 08:57, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
Possible background cause
Agency’s ’04 Rule Let Banks Pile Up New Debt Fred Talk 20:27, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
- A couple more for those interested: Factcheck.org and Globalresearch.ca. NJGW (talk) 08:49, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
- Also Breaking Views. Fred Talk 13:24, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
Should some mention be made of Warren Buffett's interview with Charlie Rose in which he said a Depression is possible? [2]--JohnnyB256 (talk) 13:35, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
Lead paragraph
Forgive a newbie spouting off, but I'm wondering if perhaps the lead paragraph should be written differently. It begins by giving background, which is good but I think it belongs elsewhere. Perhaps the beginning should describe a bit more what this crisis is and what it has done. Does that make sense?--JohnnyB256 (talk) 13:26, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
Huge sections of this article were deleted
Huge sections of this article were deleted. Was it vandalism? I thought the vote for merger was opposed and lost? http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Financial_crisis_of_2007-2008&diff=244134928&oldid=244121405 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.131.4.194 (talk) 15:28, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, no, and yes (I think). The sections "Federal Reserve actions to lower interest rates and stimulate the economy" through to "Week of October 5, 2008" (with the detailed week by week events) were moved from Financial crisis of 2007-2008 to Global financial crisis of September-October, 2008 (used to be Liquidity crisis of September 2008.) These were the two edits that made the move: diff1 and diff2. The move looks Ok in that nothing was lost. See also Talk:Global financial crisis of September-October, 2008#Merger with Financial crisis of 2007-2008. -84user (talk) 19:27, 9 October 2008 (UTC) I fixed last section moved. 84user (talk) 19:32, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
Glad I came here
Wow, I need to redirect Great Depression of 2008-2009. Another editor is trying to work on the same project, and you guys are much more along than he is. -- Matthew Glennon (T/C\D) 14:54, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
- I redirected said article here. It was dead in the water, and you have a lot of work done already. Great job, this is really how we need to cover the subject anyway. -- Matthew Glennon (T/C\D) 14:58, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
- Wow, talk about needless fear mongering! Great depression of 2008-2009? LowLevelMason (talk) 21:02, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
- Fear mongering? Maybe... maybe not [3], but more importantly it is definitely commentary requiring a time machine. NJGW (talk) 21:05, 10 October 2008 (UTC)