Richard Schatzki

We're on iTunes

..next stop the world, I tell you! - this makes it quite important that folk get me the mp3 files so they can be uploaded onto Dan's server, and the RSS feed updated etc. etc. - in due course we'll have to work out some way for this to be a group effort.. but it's pretty cool none the less.... - email from iTunes follows

Dear Podcast Owner

Your podcast, located at [ http://ntww.dan.info/ntwwfeed.rss ], has been approved. You should expect to see it in iTunes within the next few hours. When it's available, you will be able to access it with the URL below.

http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=286244727

Your podcast will be searchable within the iTunes Store in approximately 1-2 days.

If you have other questions or wish to change your podcast, please consult the technical spec at http://www.apple.com/itunes/podcasts/techspecs.html. The spec contains detailed information about key topics like adding "cover art" and changing your feed URL.

After adding a new episode, update your feed in the fastest possible manner with the ping service by visiting this URL:

https://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZFinance.woa/wa/pingPodcast?id=286244727

See the technical spec for more information on updating your feed using the ping service.

There is also an Apple Discussions Forum exlcusively for podcast producers, located here: http://discussions.apple.com/forum.jspa?forumID=1107. If you have a question or a problem that the technical spec cannot answer, the community of iTunes podcasters may be able to provide valuable guidance.

Sincerely,

The iTunes Store Team

Now, is anybody planning on getting the rest of the episodes, old and new, onto this iTunes feed? *Dan T.* (talk) 01:51, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

That looks great, Dan. I'm stretched a bit thin to do it myself. Perhaps someone else will step forward. Durova^Charge! 04:02, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

I should set aside some more time to help out with the technical stuff, because it's that area that seems to be causing the lag at the mo - two things have to happen to get the iTunes up to date - which is a very cool thing in my book :-) i) I need a copy of the final mp3 of the whole episode, and ii) the feed needs to be updated (currently by hand) - if Dan and I can put our heads together at some point soon-ish, it'd be cool to discuss installing something like WordPress on his server - otherwise all assistance with part ii) above is most welcome! :-) - I'll reply below too... cheers, Privatemusings (talk) 04:21, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

That would be a real help, PM. :) Durova^Charge! 04:47, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

If it's just a matter of editing the XML-ish feed file, I can probably do it for the episodes that are already up there as MP3s. *Dan T.* (talk) 12:06, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

<- that'd be fantastic Dan - it really is simply a case of updating the /RSS file, then uploading over the one currently on the server - it's also cool to use the 'ping' service mentioned above to tell iTunes that it's all updated. It's a kinda dull job which I've been successfully putting off for ages, so I'll owe you a big favour if you help get some more ep.s on there :-) cheers, Privatemusings (talk) 22:06, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm working on it now... I've put some more episodes in the feed file now, and made some corrections to the existing data (including dates in the wrong format that weren't displayed by iTunes). I'll try to finish adding the episodes that are already in MP3 form within the next day or two, but then I'll need whoever has the original sound files to make MP3s of the rest of them so I can complete the job. *Dan T.* (talk) 03:12, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

OK, I've caught up with all existing MP3s in the feed file. The episodes I'm missing from having a complete set are: 14, 17, 18b [Craig Spurrier], 18f [Ray Saintonge], 18h [Ting Chen], 20, 21, 22, 24, 25, 26, 27, 29, 30 [not the NY Brad interview which is actually 31 but was mislabeled in original MP3 upload], 32, 33, 34. *Dan T.* (talk) 03:26, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Now I've got 33 and 34 up. *Dan T.* (talk) 04:34, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

busy bee....

I'm totally tied up at the moment, and it seems I'll miss out on NTWW for a couple of weeks (barring minor miracles!) - ideally we can move some of the co-ordinating effort 'on wiki' a bit more - and I'd love to hear discussions with Brad, and a podcast dedicated to Chapters and stuff (or participate in these chats as and when! :-) ) - cheers, Privatemusings (talk) 02:55, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Sorry I haven't been on lately. What's the story with the scheduled NYB chat? Enigma ^message 20:53, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Migrate to Meta?

At NTWW we've always been welcoming toward sister WMF projects. An admin on one of those sister projects recently suggested we migrate NTWW to Meta--sort of like moving the fun from the big sister's bedroom to the family room where everyone's on an equal footing. This would probably go hand in hand with a rename (NTWW is a mouthful anyway). Initial reactions in conjunction with yesterday's voice session were all positive (although this was discussed while we weren't actually recording). Not intending to surprise anybody or step on any toes here--so comments and input are welcome. Durova^Charge! 20:42, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Agree. The heavy focus the NtWW has placed to date on our sister WMF communities suggests that a migration to Meta, a traditional hub of pan-project going-ons, would be a wise one. I am happy to support this, so long as I have assurance that the focus will not unduly shift away from Wikipedia (no more so than is fair and appropriate in comparison to the notability and the raw size of the projects that will become "NtWW 2's" prerogative). I would, however, like to engage in a full and extensive dialogue on Skype, to set the record straight on procedural and technical issues relating to this move.
Anthøny ✉ 22:36, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Absolutely. Looking forward to chatting with you. I'm online atm if you are. Durova^Charge! 23:21, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

I particularly like the idea of involving folk from other projects, and have chatted a bit about this now on Skype.... I'd like to keep an en-wiki presence, and I think our spot on the 'Community Portal' is quite cool - I'd also like us to focus on continuing to develop better and better practice, which probably means things like trying to encourage more and more people to host their own conversations, and trying to reduce the lag time between conversation and publication online - ideally to a few min.s / hours :-) Privatemusings (talk) 10:34, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Durova, Apologies I missed your message: I've been a little busy off-Wiki, and just noticed it. I'll pop by Skype at some point this week and see who I can pin down for an update on, and a chat regarding, the proposed enwiki → meta move.

Privatemusings, I concur with your points, but note that the only reason we have any considerable lag between recording time and on-Wiki publication time, is a(n absolutely understandable: people have real lives :-) lack of promptness on the part of those who have been made responsible for the recording and publishing. It's important to remember, of course, that those who are recording are also responsible for converting to appropriate formats; cropping the audio to remove sections which are not desirable, appropriate, or on-Topic (eg., tangential, technical discussions requesting that the host re-add a user who has dropped from the call); remedying as best as is possible background noise, interference, etc.; and so on. If we can remedy that (perhaps ensure in future that the room appoints an editor to record who will be able to handle their duties immediately after recording?), I think we'll be able to hit this "recording → publication lag" nail on the head.

Anthøny ✉ 12:00, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Not using Skype

Since we're A) a free (libre) encyclopedia, and B) we're moving to meta, I think we should consider moving from Skype over to some open source software. Ekiga seems to be the only mature one (GPL compatible, too)... it runs on Windows and Linux (Or maybe just Gnome - I honestly don't know how that stuff works). Not mac, though. So two questions:

• Should we start figuring out something new, and
• Is anyone here editing from a Mac? :-p
• Does anyone have a better idea than Ekiga? I'm not even sure if that's what we really want :-p

Xavexgoem (talk) 06:04, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

not a bad plan, Xav - personally speaking I'd say that my main aim and priority in this project is to encourage recordings of conversations onto the wiki, and to encourage more and more people to engage in conversation :-) - so from that perspective, I don't really mind how that's technically achieved. I do strongly support us using the 'OGG' format, and in time perhaps it'll be useful to talk about other software - have you heard of 'teamspeak' by any chance? - it seems quite interesting, as does 'shoutcast' for live streaming.... let's talk about this in an episode :-) cheers, Privatemusings (talk) 10:37, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

A consideration

Just a few thoughts here. One of the principles of editing Wikipedia is that content decisions are easily tracked on wiki - through talk pages and edit summaries. Someone reading an article months or years later can often determine why a certain reference source is not included, or why a certain element has been emphasized. The Featured Content editors have just this week loudly decried an effort to create IRC channels dedicated to the creation of featured content for exactly that reason. How does the extensive discussion of content creation via Skype encourage on-wiki discussion of content? Is this really collaborative editing, or is it exclusionary to editors who might well be interested in participating in an article development drive but are not in a position to download the Skype software? How well documented will the discussions be on-wiki and how will they compare to the off-wiki discussion?

I am not saying this is an inherently bad idea. It occurs to me, though, that the implications of discussing and developing content as a group off-wiki have not fully been considered. Perhaps that in itself would be a useful topic for this broadcast - but of course, the views of those who are only able (or willing) to participate on-wiki will not be heard there, either. Risker (talk) 13:49, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

I had a look at that featured content IRC channel discussion. It focused almost entirely featured articles--the FC type where the cost-benefit equation is most lopsided. For a different example, take images. Recently I blogged about an editor who's learning how to do photographic restorations.[1] He's working with a .tif file that we cropped down from about 47MB to 33MB during another part of the discussion. Trying to conduct that discussion on-wiki would be counterproductive: not only would it slow progress to a snail's pace, it would force us to work with degraded files. Commons cannot accept files larger than 20MB and does not accept .tif format. So we would be limited to trading files in lossy .jpg format. When a new person learning this needs help, the best ways to help are to trade full sized lossless files and interact with an experienced editor in real time. Similar principles apply to sound. There was a point in episode 34 where Shoemaker's Holiday checked the group to see whether the published score contained a typographical error: a minute's discussion in voice in real time. Durova^Charge! 21:27, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Another consideration

What thought has been given to Wikipedians who are deaf and unable to listen to these recordings? Are transcripts available, for example? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.25.109.195 (talk) 17:30, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

NTWW is a do-ocracy. You've just volunteered? Durova^Charge! 21:04, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Episode 33

Was #33 recorded? ·:· Will Beback ·:· 21:16, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Also, what happened to #30, it redirects to #31. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 21:19, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

33 was recorded but whoever has it hasn't posted it yet. — Rlevse • Talk • 21:21, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

We put up the first part of Episode 33 today. Will get to the rest of it as soon as we can. Durova^Charge! 04:00, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Will it get onto the iTunes feed, which presently lags a few episodes behind the current one? *Dan T.* (talk) 04:02, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

I'd like it to! - I need a copy of the mp3 - I'll poke Shoe to see if he has it - otherwise, feel free to email it over :-) Privatemusings (talk) 04:22, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Maybe I'm missing something, but what happened to #30. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 04:07, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

It hasn't been edited yet (I'm not an audio editor). Durova^Charge! 04:47, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Totally cool, but why is it redirected? - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 05:18, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Um, check the edit history? Durova^Charge! 05:56, 30 September 2008 (UTC) um, sorry, but I'm trying to do an expansion DYK and you know how George Washington was a surveyor early in his career? I've found one of his maps...

And what happened to 20 and 25? — Rlevse • Talk • 09:47, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't know, but 33's up. 20 might be the Cinco de Mayo episode. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 18:58, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

#31 was mis-identified as #30 in the iTunes feed file (and in a couple of other places on the web pages), and I fixed this as I was doing other edits. I also fixed some syntax errors in the release dates and playing lengths in the feed file that were causing some of the info not to show correctly in iTunes. *Dan T.* (talk) 03:09, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

iTunes out of date?

I use iTunes to get my podcasts, and 2 days ago I just got episode 9! I got 8 about two weeks ago. Is this just me, or is this a problem on iTunes? Maury (talk) 22:56, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

It's a matter of the NTWW people being slow to update the feed, as discussed above. There are two steps: uploading the podcast in MP3 form, and adding it to an RSS (XML) format file describing the episodes. Since it's hosted in webspace in my account, I've been working lately on updating the feed file since nobody else has lately, and added a few new episodes yesterday and today, with some more MP3s already uploaded that I still need to add (I'll try to get to them tomorrow or in the weekend). After that, it's up to whoever has the original sound files from the Skype recording to make MP3s of the "missing" other episodes, after which I can add them to the feed file as well. *Dan T.* (talk) 03:06, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps I can help? It would seem that the conversion from Skype to MP3 should be easy? Is this just a matter of getting it done, or is there some sort of frustrating element here? If it's the later, perhaps there's something I can scare up that would make this simpler or more automated. Maury (talk) 13:02, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Brainstorming a new name

Put ideas here. :) Doesn't have to be perfect, just to get the crative juices flowing. Durova^Charge! 21:31, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

• Echo
• Wikipeople
• Creative Juices (or Crative Juices)
• I like Wikimedia Weekly, which was first suggested on the NTWW chat. Anthøny ✉ 22:23, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

• OK, here's my suggestion: WikiVoices. I think this name embraces not only the audio format and the anyone-can-produce ethos, but most importantly the diversity of opinions in the Wikimedian community.--Pharos (talk) 20:14, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

• If we wanted to keep the abbreviation we could call it Not The Wild West or as an orphan initialism NTWW. Zginder 2008-10-10T21:52Z (UTC)