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'''Seeking Alpha''' is a free provider of stock market opinion and analysis from blogs, money managers and investment newsletters, and a provider of its own financial content. ''[[Alpha (investment)|Alpha]]'' is a financial term referring to a stock's performance relative to the market; it is used by fund managers to describe beating their index, so stock pickers "seek alpha".
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* I answer posts on the same page.
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== Talk page watchers: [[Landmark Education]] ==
Seeking Alpha has its own editorial staff, as well as being a traditional blog. Seeking Alpha claims to be the only company that provides full earnings call transcripts on its website.<ref>"[http://www.squawkbox.asia/article.cfm/id/151297 Seeking Alpha Announces Comprehensive Resources for Investors in Chinese Stocks]", Squawkbox.asia, [[press release]] by Seeking Alpha.</ref> . It offers these free, as well as summaries of [[Jim Cramer]]'s comments.<ref>"[http://247wallst.blogspot.com/2006/09/twenty-best-financial-blogs.html The Twenty Best Financial Blogs]", 247wallst.blogspot.com. [[September 5]], [[2006]].</ref> The company has also developed a free stock widget designed for the financial bloggers. It features stock quotes from the NYSE, NASDAQ, AMEX, Pink Sheets and OTC Bulletin Boards.<ref>"[http://studio.financialcontent.com/Engine?Account=macreport&GUID=1763792&Page=MediaViewer&Ticker=FCON "Seeking Alpha Launches Free Financial Content Powered Stock Quote Widget for Financial Bloggers]", Marketwire, [[press release]] by Seeking Alpha. [[April 17]], [[2007]].</ref>


[[Landmark Education]] has been messed up pretty badly with corporate PR and removal of critical content. If anybody would like to do a good deed for Wikipedia, check that article and see if you can bring it into better compliance with [[WP:NPOV]]. [[User:Jehochman|Jehochman]] <sup>[[User talk:Jehochman|Talk]]</sup> 15:37, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
Started in 2004 by David Jackson,<ref>"[http://www.fobmconference.com/speakers#jackson David Jackson]", Future of Business Media.</ref> Seeking Alpha has 50 employees on two continents and has formed partnerships with companies including [[Yahoo! Finance]],<ref>"[http://biz.yahoo.com/seekingalpha/ Blogs from Seeking Alpha]", Yahoo! Finance.</ref> Dow Jones [[MarketWatch]], [[E-Trade]],<ref>"[https://us.etrade.com/e/t/home/PressStory?ID=STORYID%3Detrade_pr_2008_02_19_eng-etrade_16_07_59_pr&year=2008&month=02 E*trade Financial Enhances Research Tools, Increases Efficiencies For Retail Investors], [[press release]] by E*trade, [[February 20]], [[2008]].</ref> and [[CNET]].<ref>"[http://seekingalpha.com/page/about_us About Us]", Seeking Alpha.</ref> The company is backed by [[Benchmark Capital]] a firm that funded [[eBay]].<ref>"[http://venturebeat.com/2006/09/11/benchmark-invests-in-seeking-alpha-deal-struck-with-yahoo/ Benchmark invests in Seeking Alpha; deal struck with Yahoo]", Venturebeat.com, [[September 11]], [[2006]].</ref>


== GA Nomination for WTC Collapse Article? ==
In the financial news field, SeekingAlpha is currently the largest stock market blog, running about 100 articles a day, according to 247wallst.com.<ref>"[http://www.247wallst.com/2007/10/techcrunch-and-.html TechCrunch And Huffington: Who Will Buy The Big Blogs?]", 247wallst.com, [[October 3]], [[2007]].</ref> Articles are available on the Seeking Alpha website as well as via [[Blackberry]] or [[RSS feed]].<ref>"[http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1633488_1633530_1633565,00.html Time's 50 Best Websites of 2007]", ''[[Time (magazine)|Time]]'', November 2007.</ref> Seeking Alpha's stock research content is more extensive that Yahoo! Finance or [[Google]] Finance, according to Sramana Mitra.<ref>"[http://sramanamitra.com/2007/03/29/web-30-and-seeking-alpha Web 3.0 and Seeking Alpha Review]", sramanamitra.com. [[March 29]], [[2007]].</ref> Seeking Alpha however focuses on opinion and analysis rather than news, and is primarily written by investors who describe their personal approach to stock picking and portfolio management rather than by journalists. Seeking Alpha's primary readership is among money managers, research analysts, investment bankers, and serious individual investors.{{Fact|date=June 2008}}


Hi again Jonathan. It doesn't look like anyone is really working on the WTC collapse article any longer. That would suggest that [[Talk:Collapse_of_the_World_Trade_Center#GA_Sweeps_Review:_On_Hold|the issues that kept it from retaining its GA status]] have been resolved. I was about to nominate it myself, but then I noticed that part of the procedure would require me to violate my ban (posting to the talk page). GA with the hope of FA might be away to re-energize work on the article.--[[User:Thomas Basboll|Thomas Basboll]] ([[User talk:Thomas Basboll|talk]]) 14:51, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
Seeking Alpha was the recipient of [[Kiplinger]]'s 2007 Award for Most Informative Website<ref>"[http://www.kiplinger.com/magazine/archives/2007/11/best.html The 2007 Best List]", Kiplinger's Personal Finance Magazine, November 2007.</ref> and was ranked by Fox News as the top financial blog in a 2007 telecast.<ref>[http://youtube.com/watch?v=LI_EV_mpA6c Seeking Alpha], ''Fox News'', [[October 22]], [[2007]].</ref>


:I'll have a look. [[User:Jehochman|Jehochman]] <sup>[[User talk:Jehochman|Talk]]</sup> 15:08, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
==Notes==
{{reflist|2}}


== [[User:Xinunus|Xinunus]] ==
== External links ==
* [http://seekingalpha.com/ Seeking Alpha]


Thanks for help on sorting the sock puppet case. I don't think we have seen the last of the user. Unfortunately. I think they might already be back with {{IPuser|199.209.144.211}}. The ip is reverting stuff on Xinunus and adding the same warning to my talkpage. Mind taking a look? Thanks. --[[User:PatrickFlaherty|Patrick]] ([[User talk:PatrickFlaherty|talk]]) 17:59, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
[[Category:Internet companies of the United States]]

[[Category:Corporate finance]]
== [[User:LemonMonday]] ==
[[Category:Securities]]

[[Category:Stock market]]
Hi Jehochman. This is just a courtesy note. Two other checkusers have reviewed the Blue Bugle case and have determined the above account to be {{unlikely}}. Per the technical evidence, I'm going to unblock with a warning re. their apparent pursuit of [[User:HighKing]]. Sorry about all the trouble - [[User:Alison|<span style="color:#FF823D;font-family:Monotype Corsiva">'''A<font color="#FF7C0A">l<font color="#FFB550">is</font>o</font>n'''</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Alison|❤]]</sup> 21:51, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
[[Category:Blogs]]

: Okee dokee. [[User:Jehochman|Jehochman]] <sup>[[User talk:Jehochman|Talk]]</sup> 22:28, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
::Fair enough on the technical evidence showing that they're not sock-puppets - thanks to all involved for the efforts. But I'm very concerned that LemonMonday has stated ''You won't give me the benefit of the doubt so I've no alternative but to become a sockpuppet! A sockpuppet of the now defunct LemonMonday. I and others will continue in due course to challenge the edits of the disruptive HighKing until such time as he's prevented from damaging this project further.'' on his Talk page. In the words of Cole Porter - "There will be trouble ahead"... --[[User:HighKing|HighKing]] ([[User talk:HighKing|talk]]) 10:38, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

:::"[[Han Solo|I have a bad feeling about this.]]" [[User:Jehochman|Jehochman]] <sup>[[User talk:Jehochman|Talk]]</sup> 12:51, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
::::"[[Quantum Leap (TV series)|Oh boy!]]" '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 13:12, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
::::::::Another editor just popped up on the radar - [[User:MidnightBlueMan]], account created Sept 30th, and is just starting on a reversionfest. --[[User:HighKing|HighKing]] ([[User talk:HighKing|talk]]) 18:19, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::What is this? A reversionfest, how funny! but it's a good word. No, I have not "popped up" as you put it. I was editing as an IP and signed up on 30th September at the request of User:Snowded on the British Isles Talk page. Can you please stop removing British Isles for illegitimate reasons. I note your long history in this activity. [[User:MidnightBlueMan|<font color="DarkBlue">'''MidnightBlue'''</font>]] [[User talk:MidnightBlueMan|<font color="Red">'''(Talk)'''</font>]] 18:32, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
(outdent)Apologies. Has already been reported [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_checkuser/Case/Blue_Bugle here] too. I notified you here also since you have knowledge of the situation and interceded previously. I won't post here again on this topic, and feel free o remove this comment also. --[[User:HighKing|HighKing]] ([[User talk:HighKing|talk]]) 14:53, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

== You are mentioned ==

At [[WP:ANI#Harassment]]. [[User:ScienceApologist|ScienceApologist]] ([[User talk:ScienceApologist|talk]]) 22:04, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
:Please respond at the CU case to give the supporting diffs requested by me, if you would be so kind. Just saying "I wash my hands" of an incomplete case is probably not a good approach. ++[[User:Lar|Lar]]: [[User_talk:Lar|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/Lar|c]] 22:38, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
::I am short on time at the moment, but I have done my best under the circumstances to present the evidence. I find it remarkable that SA is tag teaming on two occasions a month apart with closely connected IPs. The simplest and most probably explanation that it's the same editor. [[User:Jehochman|Jehochman]] <sup>[[User talk:Jehochman|Talk]]</sup> 22:50, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

== [[Rosetta@home]] ==

Je, [[Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Rosetta@home]] may be within your area of interest, particularly with your experience with non-conventional sourcing in a computer-related FAC. I'm hoping you might have time to review this article? [[User:SandyGeorgia|Sandy<font color="green">Georgia</font>]] ([[User talk:SandyGeorgia|Talk]]) 00:54, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

== MfD nomination of [[Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/ScienceApologist]] ==

[[Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/ScienceApologist]], a page you substantially contributed to, has been nominated for [[WP:MfD|deletion]]. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at [[Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/ScienceApologist ]] and please be sure to [[WP:SIG|sign your comments]] with four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>). You are free to edit the content of [[Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/ScienceApologist]] during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you.<!-- Template:MFDWarning --> [[User:ScienceApologist|ScienceApologist]] ([[User talk:ScienceApologist|talk]]) 02:20, 9 October 2008 (UTC) [[User:ScienceApologist|ScienceApologist]] ([[User talk:ScienceApologist|talk]]) 02:20, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

== TharkunColl behaviour ==

Hi, in light of the recent activities of Blue Bugle and LemonMonday, can you also please take a look at the activities of [[User:TharkunColl]]. It is obvious that he regularly looks at my contributions and reverts my edits. We have had a number of edit wars in the past, I admit, but that was borne out of frustration. He constantly wholesale reverts whatever recent edits I make without discussion, and usually with comments designed to incite a reaction. He rarely if ever discusses the edits, and always leaves comments such as "Reverting wholesale vandalism" or "Removing politically driven POV", etc. I've asked him to stop several times, and left warnings on his Talk page. While I don't believe he sock-puppets, his actions are remarkably similar to LemonMonday and Blue Bugle. Here are a number of recent reverts from the last 30 minutes:
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=European_Green_Party&diff=prev&oldid=244142378 European Green Party]
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cup_and_ring_mark&diff=prev&oldid=244141995 Cup and ring mark]
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Old-time_music&diff=prev&oldid=244141640 Old-time music]
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Drovers%27_road&diff=244142963&oldid=244035093 Drovers' Road]

There's numerous other examples going back such as
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Derry&diff=prev&oldid=243934002 Derry] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Derry&diff=prev&oldid=243909642 Derry]
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Saint_David&diff=prev&oldid=242214120 Saint David]
but if you go back over his edit history, they're pretty obvious. As an administrator that is uninvolved but has experience examining similar cases, please take a look. Thank you. --[[User:HighKing|HighKing]] ([[User talk:HighKing|talk]]) 15:23, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

: Can you copy the above content to [[WP:WQA]] for wider discussion? [[User:Jehochman|Jehochman]] <sup>[[User talk:Jehochman|Talk]]</sup> 16:29, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
::I'm not sure if that is the right place, but OK, I'll start there. --[[User:HighKing|HighKing]] ([[User talk:HighKing|talk]]) 17:42, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
:::Discussion started [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiquette_alerts#TharkunColl here]. --[[User:HighKing|HighKing]] ([[User talk:HighKing|talk]]) 20:50, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

== Nosferamus ==

[[Wikipedia:Suspected_sock_puppets/Giovanni_Giove_(6th)|OMG]]. Thanks very much, [[Special:Contributions/89.96.108.150|89.96.108.150]] ([[User talk:89.96.108.150|talk]]) 15:54, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

: Don't mention it. :-) [[User:Jehochman|Jehochman]] <sup>[[User talk:Jehochman|Talk]]</sup> 16:30, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

== RFAR exercise ==

Hi. I have a question about the RFAR excercise, which I posted to the Coaching page. How should I analyze the case? What should I look for, and what sort of understanding do I need to develop? Thanks. [[User:SunDragon34|SunDragon34]] ([[User talk:SunDragon34|talk]]) 21:23, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

: Just read the case main page, then the evidence page, and then go to the workshop and make helpful comments. The committee likes to get feedback from the community on various workshop proposals. You are also welcome to investigate the conflict and present evidence if you think important factors are missing. [[User:Jehochman|Jehochman]] <sup>[[User talk:Jehochman|Talk]]</sup> 22:29, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

== Review ==

Would you mind reviewing my recent edits and saying what I've done good and bad? I've been editing when I get the time. I try to edit every day, but it doesn't always happen. [[User:Undead warrior|Undead Warrior]] ([[User talk:Undead warrior|talk]]) 16:55, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

: I think you are doing fine. You have not been blocked, nor warned, and you picked up a barnstar. What sort of tasks would you like to do if you became an administrator? [[User:Jehochman|Jehochman]] <sup>[[User talk:Jehochman|Talk]]</sup> 19:29, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

== Regarding the Hemshin peoples entry ==

I have noticed that you are aware of the Hemshin peoples entry through your exhange with admin Khoikkoi on your talk page on 28 September 2008. This entry is again under wholesale revert attacks taking it back to a version of app. a year ago. I have placed a notice about one of the whole reverters (user Eupator) on WP:AE (User: Eupator with regards to Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2's decisions). I just wanted to inform you about this situation. Thanks.[[User:Omer182|Omer182]] ([[User talk:Omer182|talk]]) 17:05, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

== ANI case of HK & Tharky ==

Hello Jehochman. I did the duty of informing HK, of the ANI report being cancelled. I hope I didn't overstep boundries. [[User:GoodDay|GoodDay]] ([[User talk:GoodDay|talk]]) 19:25, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

: That's fine. The matter is at [[WP:AE]]. We should try to resolve this with a minimum amount of fuss and drama. Posting the same issue to multiple forums at the same time is not helpful. [[User:Jehochman|Jehochman]] <sup>[[User talk:Jehochman|Talk]]</sup> 19:26, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Revision as of 19:29, 12 October 2008

Talk page watchers: Landmark Education

Landmark Education has been messed up pretty badly with corporate PR and removal of critical content. If anybody would like to do a good deed for Wikipedia, check that article and see if you can bring it into better compliance with WP:NPOV. Jehochman Talk 15:37, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

GA Nomination for WTC Collapse Article?

Hi again Jonathan. It doesn't look like anyone is really working on the WTC collapse article any longer. That would suggest that the issues that kept it from retaining its GA status have been resolved. I was about to nominate it myself, but then I noticed that part of the procedure would require me to violate my ban (posting to the talk page). GA with the hope of FA might be away to re-energize work on the article.--Thomas Basboll (talk) 14:51, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

I'll have a look. Jehochman Talk 15:08, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for help on sorting the sock puppet case. I don't think we have seen the last of the user. Unfortunately. I think they might already be back with 199.209.144.211 (talk · contribs · WHOIS). The ip is reverting stuff on Xinunus and adding the same warning to my talkpage. Mind taking a look? Thanks. --Patrick (talk) 17:59, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi Jehochman. This is just a courtesy note. Two other checkusers have reviewed the Blue Bugle case and have determined the above account to be  Unlikely. Per the technical evidence, I'm going to unblock with a warning re. their apparent pursuit of User:HighKing. Sorry about all the trouble - Alison 21:51, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Okee dokee. Jehochman Talk 22:28, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
Fair enough on the technical evidence showing that they're not sock-puppets - thanks to all involved for the efforts. But I'm very concerned that LemonMonday has stated You won't give me the benefit of the doubt so I've no alternative but to become a sockpuppet! A sockpuppet of the now defunct LemonMonday. I and others will continue in due course to challenge the edits of the disruptive HighKing until such time as he's prevented from damaging this project further. on his Talk page. In the words of Cole Porter - "There will be trouble ahead"... --HighKing (talk) 10:38, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
"I have a bad feeling about this." Jehochman Talk 12:51, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
"Oh boy!" Cirt (talk) 13:12, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
Another editor just popped up on the radar - User:MidnightBlueMan, account created Sept 30th, and is just starting on a reversionfest. --HighKing (talk) 18:19, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
What is this? A reversionfest, how funny! but it's a good word. No, I have not "popped up" as you put it. I was editing as an IP and signed up on 30th September at the request of User:Snowded on the British Isles Talk page. Can you please stop removing British Isles for illegitimate reasons. I note your long history in this activity. MidnightBlue (Talk) 18:32, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

(outdent)Apologies. Has already been reported here too. I notified you here also since you have knowledge of the situation and interceded previously. I won't post here again on this topic, and feel free o remove this comment also. --HighKing (talk) 14:53, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

You are mentioned

At WP:ANI#Harassment. ScienceApologist (talk) 22:04, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Please respond at the CU case to give the supporting diffs requested by me, if you would be so kind. Just saying "I wash my hands" of an incomplete case is probably not a good approach. ++Lar: t/c 22:38, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
I am short on time at the moment, but I have done my best under the circumstances to present the evidence. I find it remarkable that SA is tag teaming on two occasions a month apart with closely connected IPs. The simplest and most probably explanation that it's the same editor. Jehochman Talk 22:50, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Je, Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Rosetta@home may be within your area of interest, particularly with your experience with non-conventional sourcing in a computer-related FAC. I'm hoping you might have time to review this article? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:54, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/ScienceApologist, a page you substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/ScienceApologist and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/ScienceApologist during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. ScienceApologist (talk) 02:20, 9 October 2008 (UTC) ScienceApologist (talk) 02:20, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

TharkunColl behaviour

Hi, in light of the recent activities of Blue Bugle and LemonMonday, can you also please take a look at the activities of User:TharkunColl. It is obvious that he regularly looks at my contributions and reverts my edits. We have had a number of edit wars in the past, I admit, but that was borne out of frustration. He constantly wholesale reverts whatever recent edits I make without discussion, and usually with comments designed to incite a reaction. He rarely if ever discusses the edits, and always leaves comments such as "Reverting wholesale vandalism" or "Removing politically driven POV", etc. I've asked him to stop several times, and left warnings on his Talk page. While I don't believe he sock-puppets, his actions are remarkably similar to LemonMonday and Blue Bugle. Here are a number of recent reverts from the last 30 minutes:

There's numerous other examples going back such as

but if you go back over his edit history, they're pretty obvious. As an administrator that is uninvolved but has experience examining similar cases, please take a look. Thank you. --HighKing (talk) 15:23, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Can you copy the above content to WP:WQA for wider discussion? Jehochman Talk 16:29, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
I'm not sure if that is the right place, but OK, I'll start there. --HighKing (talk) 17:42, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
Discussion started here. --HighKing (talk) 20:50, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Nosferamus

OMG. Thanks very much, 89.96.108.150 (talk) 15:54, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Don't mention it.  :-) Jehochman Talk 16:30, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

RFAR exercise

Hi. I have a question about the RFAR excercise, which I posted to the Coaching page. How should I analyze the case? What should I look for, and what sort of understanding do I need to develop? Thanks. SunDragon34 (talk) 21:23, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Just read the case main page, then the evidence page, and then go to the workshop and make helpful comments. The committee likes to get feedback from the community on various workshop proposals. You are also welcome to investigate the conflict and present evidence if you think important factors are missing. Jehochman Talk 22:29, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Review

Would you mind reviewing my recent edits and saying what I've done good and bad? I've been editing when I get the time. I try to edit every day, but it doesn't always happen. Undead Warrior (talk) 16:55, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

I think you are doing fine. You have not been blocked, nor warned, and you picked up a barnstar. What sort of tasks would you like to do if you became an administrator? Jehochman Talk 19:29, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Regarding the Hemshin peoples entry

I have noticed that you are aware of the Hemshin peoples entry through your exhange with admin Khoikkoi on your talk page on 28 September 2008. This entry is again under wholesale revert attacks taking it back to a version of app. a year ago. I have placed a notice about one of the whole reverters (user Eupator) on WP:AE (User: Eupator with regards to Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2's decisions). I just wanted to inform you about this situation. Thanks.Omer182 (talk) 17:05, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

ANI case of HK & Tharky

Hello Jehochman. I did the duty of informing HK, of the ANI report being cancelled. I hope I didn't overstep boundries. GoodDay (talk) 19:25, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

That's fine. The matter is at WP:AE. We should try to resolve this with a minimum amount of fuss and drama. Posting the same issue to multiple forums at the same time is not helpful. Jehochman Talk 19:26, 12 October 2008 (UTC)