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! width=20% align=left | <font color="gray">&lt;</font> [[Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2008 October 11|October 11]]
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! width=20% align=right | [[Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2008 October 13|October 13]] <font color="gray">&gt;</font>
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===[[Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2008 October 12|12 October 2008]]===
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====[[:The DFenders]]====
| name = Woodlice
| image = Porcellio scaber - male front 2 (aka).jpg
| image_width = 250px
| image_caption = ''[[Oniscus asellus]]''
| regnum = [[Animal]]ia
| phylum = [[Arthropod]]a
| subphylum = [[Crustacean|Crustacea]]
| classis = [[Malacostraca]]
| ordo = [[Isopoda]]
| subordo = '''Oniscidea'''
| subordo_authority = [[Pierre André Latreille|Latreille]], 1802
| subdivision_ranks = [[Infraorder]]s and [[Family (biology)|Families]]
| subdivision =
*Infaorder/Section [[Diplocheta]]
***Familia: [[Ligiidae]]
*Infraorder [[Holoverticata]]
**Section: [[Tylida]]
***Familia: [[Tylidae]]
**Section: [[Microcheta]]
***Familia: [[Mesoniscidae]]
**Section: [[Synocheta]]
***[[Schoebliidae]]
***[[Styloniscidae]]
***[[Titaniidae]]
***[[Trichoniscidae]]
***[[Turanoniscidae]]
**Section: [[Crinocheta]]
***[[Bathytropidae]]
***[[Berytoniscidae]]
***[[Detonidae]]
***[[Halophilosciidae]]
***[[Olibrinidae]]
***[[Oniscidae]]
***[[Philosciidae]]
***[[Platyarthridae]]
***[[Pudeoniscidae]]
***[[Rhyscotidae]]
***[[Scyphacidae]]
***[[Speleoniscidae]]
***[[Sphaeroniscidae]]
***[[Stenoniscidae]]
***[[Tendosphaeridae]]
***[[Actaeciidae]]
***[[Armadillidae]]
***[[Armadillidiidae]]
***[[Atlantidiidae]]
***[[Balloniscidae]]
***[[Cylisticidae]]
***[[Eubelidae]]
***[[Periscyphicidae]]
***[[Porcellionidae]]
***[[Trachelipodidae]]
***[[Dubioniscidae]]
***[[Hekelidae]]
***[[Irmaosidae]]
***[[Pseudarmadillidae]]
***[[Scleropactidae]]
}}


{{drvlinks|pg=The DFenders|ns=Article}}<tt>)</tt>
'''Woodlice''' (known by many [[common name]]s; see [[#Common names|below]]) are [[crustacean]]s with a rigid, segmented, long [[exoskeleton]] and fourteen jointed limbs. They form the suborder '''Oniscidea''' within the order [[Isopoda]], with over 3,000 known species.


This article satisfies three of Wikipedia's criteria for notability: this band has been nominated for a major music award, has received significant coverage in multiple reliable media sources, and has songs on rotation on major, national radio stations. Many editors called to delete this article simply because they had not heard of this band, rather than take Wikipedia's own criteria into consideration. [[User:Dogma inc|Dogma inc]] ([[User talk:Dogma inc|talk]]) 21:57, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
Woodlice in the genus ''[[Armadillidium]]'' can roll up into an almost perfect sphere as a defensive mechanism, hence some of the [[#Common names|common names]] such as pill bug, roly poly, or chuckie pig. Most woodlice, however, are not able to do this.


====[[:Troopergate (Bill Clinton)]]====
==Ecology==
:<small>''DRV incorrectly filed [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2008_October_6&diff=prev&oldid=244662273 on October 11] under October 6 - moving here instead. [[User:Carcharoth|Carcharoth]] ([[User talk:Carcharoth|talk]]) 12:41, 12 October 2008 (UTC)''</small>
Woodlice need moisture because they breathe through [[gill]]s, called [[pseudo trachea]], and so are usually found in damp, dark places, such as under rocks and logs. They are usually [[nocturnal]] and are [[detritivore]]s, feeding mostly on dead plant matter. Woodlice then recycle the nutrients back into the soil. In artificial environments such as greenhouses where it can be very moist, woodlice may become abundant and damage young plants, such as ferns.
{{drvlinks|pg=Troopergate (Bill Clinton)|ns=Article}}<tt>)</tt>


I nominated [[Troopergate (Bill Clinton)]], an article that about "an alleged scandal involving allegations by two Arkansas state troopers that they arranged sexual liaisons for then-governor Bill Clinton." The article has been on wikipedia for FOUR years and contains two sources, which call the event a manufactured "scandal." Despite the reasons, which I outlined below, it was closed within three hours by the above <s>admin</s> editor ([[Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/TenPoundHammer 6|not an admin.]]) claiming: "The result was '''Speedy keep''', bad faith nom." I want to see if I can get the AFD reopened so my concerns can be addressed. My reasons, expanded here, for the AFD were as follows:
The woodlouse has a [[Animal shell|shell]]-like [[exoskeleton]], which it must progressively shed as it grows. The [[Ecdysis|moult]] takes place in two stages; the back half is lost first, followed two or three days later by the front. This method of moulting is different from that of most arthropods, who shed their cuticle in a single process.


*1) The article "Troopergate" is about an "alleged scandal," which in my nomination I noted is dealt in detail with on [[Paula Jones]]'s page (specifically [[Paula_Jones#Jones_v._Clinton]]). I think the article should be deleted, and maybe a redirect there.
A female woodlouse will keep [[fertilization|fertilized]] [[Egg (biology)|eggs]] in a patch on the underside of her body until they hatch into small, pink offspring. The mother then appears to "give birth" to her offspring.


*2) An article solely about one portion of an alleged series of sexual claims (which were thrown out in court) violates [[WP:BLP]] for Bill Clinton. Again, relevant information that complies with BLP is on the Paula Jones page.
Some species of woodlice are able to roll into a ball-like form when threatened by predators, leaving only their armoured back exposed. This ability, or dominant behavior, explains many of the woodlouse's common names.


*3) The title Troopergate, as I mentioned in the original nomination, is inappropriate. The other "[[Troopergate]] scandals" do not use troopergate in the title. For instance, there is not a Troopergate Palin article, but it is called [[Alaska Public Safety Commissioner dismissal]] despite "Palin's Troopergate" being a headline news story today (it is how I came across this article).
[[Metabolic rate]] is temperature dependent in woodlice. In contrast to mammals and birds, invertebrates are not "self heating": the external environmental temperature relates directly to their rate of respiration.


*4) A discussion to delete this came up by another editor at [[Talk:Troopergate_(Bill_Clinton)#Delete and merge]]. There was no response after a month (28 August 2008) so I took it to an AFD. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ATroopergate_%28Bill_Clinton%29&diff=234873653&oldid=179017557 That editor wrote]:
They are not generally regarded as a serious household pest as they do not spread disease and do not damage wood or structures; however, their presence can indicate dampness problems


<blockquote>This article should be merged into the PAula Jones article. Apparently "troopergate" is a term that is only being used in a NY tabloid. This doesn't merit another article, and the term should not be used by Wikipedia to describe this. Wikipedia is not the place to showcase novel neologisms.[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ATroopergate_%28Bill_Clinton%29&diff=234873653&oldid=179017557]</blockquote>
==Wood and Timber Damage==
The woodlouse buries itself into damp rotten wood and eats away at it often resulting in extensive damage to the interior of wood. It is too late then to fix the problem, see preventative action needed for [[wood preservation]].


*5) I just noticed [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ATroopergate_%28Bill_Clinton%29&diff=38023296&oldid=37986180 in 2006 another editor noted]: "the ''content'' was a subset of jones, and the notability is because of jones." He too thinks the material does not deserve an article independent of Jones.
==Aquatic isopods==
Although woodlice are terrestrial crustaceans, several forms have returned to water. Although most of these are amphibious, some have become truly aquatic, such as the sea slater (''[[Ligia oceanica]]''), which belongs to family Ligiidae.


In response to the AFD was two replies. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AArticles_for_deletion%2FTroopergate_%28Bill_Clinton%29&diff=244611778&oldid=244610012 One included claiming] the AFD was "bad faith" because it is "more than notable and sourced and is not replaced by the current Alaska incident." Such remarks, show misunderstanding of my concerns and nomination: 1) It has TWO in-line sources over the last four years and 2) I did not call anywhere for the article to "replace" the Alaska incident. Thus, I believe these are legitimate concerns for an AFD, which was prematurely closed. [[User:We66er|We66er]] ([[User talk:We66er|talk]]) 22:49, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
Other examples include some ''[[Haloniscus]]'' species from [[Australia]] (family [[Scyphacidae]]), and in the northern hemisphere several species of [[Trichoniscidae]] and ''[[Thailandoniscus annae]]'' (family Styloniscidae), as well as [[Idotea wosnesenskii]], common in the pacific northwest. Species for which aquatic life is assumed include ''[[Typhlotricholigoides aquaticus]]'' (Mexico) and ''[[Cantabroniscus primitivus]]'' (Spain)&nbsp;<ref>{{cite journal |quotes=no |author=Ivo Karaman |year=2003 |title=''Macedonethes stankoi'' n. sp., a rhithral oniscidean isopod (Isopoda: Oniscidea: Trichoniscidae) from Macedonia |journal=[[Organisms Diversity & Evolution]] |volume=3 |issue=8 |pages=1–15 |url=http://www.senckenberg.de/odes/03-08.pdf |doi=10.1078/1439-6092-00054}}</ref>.


:DRV template [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Troopergate_%28Bill_Clinton%29&diff=244766080&oldid=244642084 added] to the article. [[User:Carcharoth|Carcharoth]] ([[User talk:Carcharoth|talk]]) 12:49, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
==Common names==
* '''Comment''' - There is an ongoing [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Larry Patterson|AfD]] that may be affected by this DRV. -- [[User:Suntag|Suntag]] [[User talk:Suntag|<b><big><font color="#FF8C00">☼</font></big></b>]] 14:55, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
[[Common name]]s for woodlice vary throughout the [[English language|English]]-speaking world. A number of common names make reference to the fact that some species of woodlice can roll up into a ball. Other names compare the woodlouse to a pig.


*'''Endorse'''. The close was premature and should not have been called "bad faith" (closer, you jumped the gun), but this should stand. First of all, you never really gave a valid deletion reason. This incident was more than significant enough to receive a separate article. As for your points: 1) Simply because it is "alleged" doesn't warrant a deletion. It was still widely reported on. 2) It does not violate [[WP:BLP]] because the statements have a source (but could be sourced better), are true, and the article never claims he actually did anything anyways, only that they were alleged. 3) If you don't like the title, come up with a better one. That's not a deletion reason. The article needs more and better sources. But there is no reason to delete and this should have been brought up for discussion, not deletion. --[[User:UsaSatsui|UsaSatsui]] ([[User talk:UsaSatsui|talk]]) 15:34, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
Names include: "armadillo bug"&nbsp;<ref name="Amos">{{cite web |url=http://www.caledonianrecord.com/pages/hidden_worlds/story/af246319d |date=[[2002-08-10]] |title=Little armored tanks |author=Bill Amos |publisher=[[Caledonian-Record]]}}</ref>, "cheeselog" ([[Reading, Berkshire]])&nbsp;<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/berkshire/content/articles/2005/01/26/voices_linguist_interview_feature.shtml |title=The sound of Reddin |publisher=[[BBC]] |accessdate=2006-09-17 |author=Paul Kerswill}}</ref>, "doodlebug" (also used for the larva of an [[antlion]])&nbsp;<ref name="Random">{{cite web |url=http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sow%20bug |title="Sow bug" |publisher=Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1) |year=2006 |accessdate=2006-09-17}}</ref>, "pill bug" (usually applied only to the genus ''[[Armadillidium]]'')&nbsp;<ref name="Amos"/>, "roly-poly"&nbsp;<ref name="Harvard">{{cite web |url=http://web.archive.org/web/20060903212243/http://cfprod01.imt.uwm.edu/Dept/FLL/linguistics/dialect/staticmaps/q_74.html |title=Dialect Survey |publisher=[[Harvard University]] |accessdate=2006-09-30 |author=Bert Vaux & Scott A. Golder}}</ref>,"parson's pig" (Isle of Man) "potato bug"<ref name="Harvard"/>, "roll up bug"&nbsp;<ref>{{cite web |title=You say potato bug, I say roly-poly, you say… |publisher=[[Charlotte Observer]] |date=[[2004-03-20]] |author=Gail Smith-Arrants |url=http://www.uwm.edu/~vaux/you-say-potato-bug.pdf |format=[[Portable Document Format|PDF]]}}</ref>, "slater"&nbsp;<ref name="Massey">{{cite web |url=http://soilbugs.massey.ac.nz/isopoda.php |title=Guide to New Zealand soil invertebrates: Isopoda |publisher=[[Massey University]] |author=Maria Minor & A. W. Robertson |year=2006 |accessdate=2007-05-13}}</ref>, "Hodidod" (Suffolk) "Carpenter", "Wood Bug","sow bug".
:UsaSatsui, you misunderstood my first point. Above I wrote "'''Troopergate" is "dealt in detail with on [[Paula Jones]]'s page (specifically [[Paula_Jones#Jones_v._Clinton]])'''." The Jones v.Clinton section deals with the allegations and subsequent lawsuit in much more detail. [[User:We66er|We66er]] ([[User talk:We66er|talk]]) 19:38, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

:My point about the "alleged" actions were they are presented in a POV. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AArticles_for_deletion%2FLarry_Patterson&diff=244791225&oldid=244705844 I am not the only one] concerned about the way in which one of the trooper's claims violate BLP. Again, my point was this is better presented on the Jones article since it is about that event and does not need an independent article. [[User:We66er|We66er]] ([[User talk:We66er|talk]]) 19:44, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
In north Devon and north Somerset, England, a woodlouse is traditionally referred by the quaint name "Chuggy-peg", "Chuggy-pig" or "Chuggypig". <ref>[http://urbpan.livejournal.com/251568.html The Urban Pantheist - 365 Urban Species. #093: Woodlouse<!-- Bot generated title -->]</ref> In North Somerset it is also sometimes referred to as a "Granfer Gravy".
*'''Keep'''. this is a scandal that is rooted in american history. it should be kept in Wikipedia.<font color="Gold">[[User:Tjleo209 014|Degr]]</font><font color="Blue">[[User talk:Tjleo209 014|assi]]</font><font color="Yellow">[[Special:Contributions/Tjleo209_014|.]]</font> 19:10, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

*'''Comment''' What does "Troopergate" deal with that isn't or can't be explored at [[Paula_Jones#Jones_v._Clinton]]? The Jones' piece covers the allegations '''and''' failed lawsuit. [[User:We66er|We66er]] ([[User talk:We66er|talk]]) 19:14, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
In Australia, a woodlouse is referred to as a "butchie boy", or "butcher boy", or "slater", or "slater bug". In New Zealand the word "slater" is used as well.
**'''Please note''' This is NOT the place to discuss the merits of the article. This forum is for reviewing the AFD itself only. [[User:Pharmboy|P<small><strong>HARMBOY</strong></small>]] ([[User talk:Pharmboy|<small><strong>TALK</strong></small>]]) 19:47, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

*'''Keep as Closed''' I suggested a speedy keep in the original AFD, and questioned the nom's motives in a more colorful and indirect manner. The nomination itself DOES appear to be biased, in my opinion, and in the opinion of others. Personally, I would have waited for one more 'keep' and worded the summary differently, but the net result would have been the same. The only "crime" here is being too blunt (ie: honest) in summing up the conclusions that '''we participants had already drawn and clearly stated'''. I have worked with Hammer a little, and I'm confident he is smart enough to see that it would have been better to choose a more neutral closing statement and wait for another 'keep' or two. This was a gut judgement call on his part, and most experienced editors have made similar calls before (for better or worse), so I don't question his motives. As for the nomination itself, my original statement stands without modification. [[User:Pharmboy|P<small><strong>HARMBOY</strong></small>]] ([[User talk:Pharmboy|<small><strong>TALK</strong></small>]]) 19:47, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
==United Kingdom==
:This is not the first time Hammer's been accused of "jumping the gun" on AFDs: [[Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/TenPoundHammer_6#Oppose]]. Read the 54 opposing comments and 18 neutral comments for examples of that. In fact, his closures and behavior seems to the be the crux of his '''six''' RFAR failures. Nonetheless, you question me when other editors have the same concerns about the article. I would appreciate if you focus on the content and not level further accusations. [[User:We66er|We66er]] ([[User talk:We66er|talk]]) 20:02, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
There are 37 native or naturalised species in the [[United Kingdom]], ranging in colour and in size (3–30&nbsp;[[millimetre|mm]]) of which only five are common: ''[[Oniscus asellus]]'' (the common shiny woodlouse), ''[[Porcellio scaber]]'' (the common rough woodlouse), ''[[Philoscia muscorum]]'' (the common striped woodlouse), ''[[Trichoniscus pusillus]]'' (the common pygmy woodlouse) and ''[[Armadillidium vulgare]]'' (the common pill bug). They are also called "wood bugs" and "slaters" in some areas. Many preschoolers like to call them "Rollie Pollies".
:: '''Comment''' This forum isn't for discussing RFA's either. My focus and the entire purpose of this forum is to discuss the process of closing the AFD, '''not the content of the article''', as I have tried to explain to you above. This is degrading into a personal attack against [[User:TenPoundHammer|TenPoundHammer]] rather than a review of an AFD, which will not be tolorated. [[User:Pharmboy|P<small><strong>HARMBOY</strong></small>]] ([[User talk:Pharmboy|<small><strong>TALK</strong></small>]]) 20:21, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

:::You brought up your experience with Hammer so I cited other people's AFD experience/complaints with him. I have not attacked anyone. As I wrote to you above: I would appreciate if you focus on the content and not level further accusations. [[User:We66er|We66er]] ([[User talk:We66er|talk]]) 20:27, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
The region of Kent has several common names for woodlouse; North Kent (Dartford and Gravesend) name them "Cheesy Bugs" and "Cheesy Logs", Folkestone, Whitstable, Dover and Canterbury typically call them Monkeypeas, which is similar to the commonly accepted Peabug -referring to the fact that many of the species roll into balls.
*'''Endorse''' as closer. Yes, it was a little premature and hasty of me, but I stand by my closure. There ''are'' sources and the article can easily be expanded. [[User:TenPoundHammer|<span style="color:green">Ten Pound Hammer</span>]] and his otters • <sup>([[Special:Contributions/TenPoundHammer|Broken clamshells]] • [[:User talk:TenPoundHammer|Otter chirps]] • [[:User:TenPoundHammer/Country|HELP]])</sup> 20:32, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

:I appreciate you apologized on my talk. For the record, I never said there weren't sources. I wrote that it has no notablity outside of Paula Jones or Jones v Clinton. A glance at [http://news.google.com/archivesearch?hl=en&ned=us&q=troopergate+clinton&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&sugg=d&as_ldate=1994&as_hdate=1994&lnav=d4b&hdrange=1995,2008 Google News 1994 for "Troopergate Clinton"] shows the 87 hits are about Jones (or Brock's article about Jones). [[User:We66er|We66er]] ([[User talk:We66er|talk]]) 20:52, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
In The Purbeck region of Dorset (Particularly in the Quarrying communities) They are Known as "Hobby Horses"
::I still think that those sources are enough for an article. [[User:TenPoundHammer|<span style="color:green">Ten Pound Hammer</span>]] and his otters • <sup>([[Special:Contributions/TenPoundHammer|Broken clamshells]] • [[:User talk:TenPoundHammer|Otter chirps]] • [[:User:TenPoundHammer/Country|HELP]])</sup> 20:53, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

:::They all are about Paula Jones, which later became the [[Paula_Jones#Jones_v._Clinton]] case. As I asked above, what are in those sources that is not covered or relevant to Jones or Jones v Clinton? If this can be explained then there are two issues and thus, a point to having two articles. [[User:We66er|We66er]] ([[User talk:We66er|talk]]) 21:07, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
Other names; carpenters, cheesybobs, cheesypigs, cheesypegs, roly polys, granny greys, billy buttons, slater bugs, slater beetles, coffin cutters, tiggy hogs, grey sows, sow bugs, potato bugs, doodle bugs, chuggy pegs, chuggy pigs, chuggy bugs and finally leather jackets.
:::: [[WP:Deletion Review#Commenting_in_a_deletion_review]] states: ''"Remember that Deletion Review is not an opportunity to (re-)express your opinion on the content in question."'' This forum is ''an opportunity to correct errors in process'' relating to an AFD/deletion/keep. This is '''not''' the place to discuss content of an article. I have tried to politely say this twice previously. This is not a 2nd AFD. ''Please'' keep it on topic. [[User:Pharmboy|P<small><strong>HARMBOY</strong></small>]] ([[User talk:Pharmboy|<small><strong>TALK</strong></small>]]) 21:36, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

:::::I was responding to an inaccurate concern made '''by the person who prematurely closed the AFD'''. If that person '''closed the AFD on that misunderstanding then it is relevant to this discussion'''. You can stop commenting on the DRV purpose, it is understood. [[User:We66er|We66er]] ([[User talk:We66er|talk]]) 21:55, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
==Pillbugs and pill millipedes==
*'''Overturn''' and reclose as '''keep''' without the [[WP:ABF|assumption of bad faith]]. [[User:Stifle|Stifle]] ([[User talk:Stifle/wizard|talk]]) 20:40, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
[[Image:armidillidium.vs.glomeris.jpg|thumb|left|230px]]
*'''Comment''' - the concerns about whether or not this should be a separate article should probably be addressed in a merge discussion. Someone could be bold and carry out a merge and see if it sticks. But maybe not right now. [[User:Carcharoth|Carcharoth]] ([[User talk:Carcharoth|talk]]) 21:48, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

*'''Endorse''' close. I am tempted to suggest a relist since 3 hours is awfully fast for even a speedy keep and the accusation of bad faith was unwarranted but there is [[WP:SNOW|no point]] in reopening it so it can be speedy closed again in 22 hours by an admin. Therefore, my recommendation is to slap TenPoundHammer and his otters with some trout and leave the close as is. [[User:Eluchil404|Eluchil404]] ([[User talk:Eluchil404|talk]]) 22:23, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
Pillbugs (woodlice of the family [[Armadillidiidae]]) can be confused with [[Pill millipede]]s although they are only very distantly related to one another.
*'''Overturn and reclose as speedy keep''' a snow keep will obviously be the conclusion no matter who does it, but I see the point of Stifle's suggestion above, to remove the "bad faith" from the record. Apart from that inappropriate wording, --admin or non-admin it would have been a little fast for the circumstances; over-rapid closes typically are counterproductive, because they just result in long discussions here. I suggest that perhaps in order to prevent drift into worse problems, we consider asking Hammer not to make any XfD closes at all, or as a minimum and speedy XfD closes. There are enough other people to do them. '''[[User:DGG|DGG]]''' ([[User talk:DGG|talk]]) 23:37, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Both of these groups of terrestrial segmented arthropods are about the same size. They live in very similar habitats, and they can both roll up into a ball. Both pill millipedes and pillbugs appear superficially similar to the naked eye. This is an example of [[convergent evolution]].

Pill millipedes can be distinguished from woodlice on the basis of having two pairs of legs per body segment instead of one pair like all isopods. Pill millipedes also have thirteen body segments, whereas the woodlouse has eleven. In addition, pill millipedes are smoother, and resemble normal millipedes in overall coloring and the shape of the segments.

==Gallery==
<gallery>
Image:Porcellio scaber and Oniscus asellus - Zalné20070205.jpg|''[[Porcellio scaber]] (left) and [[Oniscus asellus]] (center)
image:ArmadillidiumVulgare2.jpg|''[[Armadillidium vulgare]]''
Image:Slater rolled up for wiki.jpg|''[[Armadillidium vulgare]]'' rolled up
image:PhilosciaMuscorum.jpg|''[[Philoscia muscorum]]''
</gallery>

== Fiction ==
{{Trivia|date=August 2008}}
* In ''[[To Kill a Mockingbird (film)|To Kill a Mockingbird]]'', the main character Scout pokes a "roly-poly".

* In the [[Pixar]] film ''[[A Bug's Life]]'' two supporting characters are [[acrobatics|acrobatic]] woodlice, "Tuck" and "Roll", who have their own ride at [[Disney's California Adventure Park]].
* The giant creatures called [[Ohmu]] in [[Hayao Miyazaki]]'s ''[[Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind]]'' also resemble woodlice.

* In the [[webcomic]] ''[[Wigu]]'', giant woodlice ("slagathors") are infrequently featured. They are forced to run organised races on alien planets.
* The [[Gustav (Zoids)|Gustav]], a mecha from the [[Zoids]] franchise, is similar in design to a woodlouse.

* In ''[[Harry Potter and Order of the Phoenix]]'', woodlice are fed to [[Minor Harry Potter beasts#bowtruckle|bowtruckles]].

* ''[[Dink Smallwood]]'' includes the woodlouse as an enemy.

* In a ''[[Rugrats]]'' episode, [[Chuckie Finster]] kept one as a pet, but it died a few days after. Its name was Melville.

* In ''[[Salad Fingers]]'' (an underground cartoon by [[David Firth]]) there was a woodlouse which was tragically flattened when Salad Fingers tried to pet her.

* Woodlice are part of the story in the movie ''[[Tierra (film)|Tierra]]'' by [[Julio Medem]].

* In the film ''[[:fr:La Métamorphose des cloportes|La métamorphose des cloportes]]'', woodlice (''cloportes'') are a part of the title, and shots of woodlice appear during the opening credits.
* In ''[[Lexx]]'', the [[Gigashadow]] resembles a gigantic, planet-sized woodlouse. The ''Lexx'' logo resembles a rolled-up woodlouse as well.

* In ''[[Rescue Rangers]]'', Professor Nimnul uses his Giganto Gun to turn pillbugs into fake aliens for extorting gold as spaceship fuel.

* In the 1980s British vet-based television drama "One by One" a character visited a veterinary surgery with a pet armadillo after concerns the animal had given birth. On inspection, these were not juvenile armadillos - but simply woodlice in the animal's cage.

*In [[The Flintstones]] episode "Groom Gloom" Fred sees two roly polys (Don Messick and Janet Waldo)- on a "date".

*In the comic [[Gargoyles]]: Bad Guys, [[Dr. Anton Sevarius]] mutated a young boy named Benny into a woodlouse.

==See also==
* [[Dysderidae|Woodlouse hunter spider]]

==External links==
*[http://www.cirrusimage.com/isopoda_sow_bug.htm Woodlice and Pill Bugs - diagnostic photographs]
*[http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/reallywild/amazing/woodlouse.shtml BBC nature]
*[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Q7BRBiscQ#GU5U2spHI_4 Video of Woodlouse in motion]
*[http://www.oznet.ksu.edu/library/entml2/ep120.pdf Pillbugs and Sowbugs, Kansas State University]
*[http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alan.cann/articles/woodlice.html Raising woodlice in captivity] <!-- ...This page seems to focus less on raising woodlice for the sake of studying isopods than it does on raising them as food for amphibians... -->

==References==
{{reflist}}

==Further reading==
*{{cite journal |quotes=no |author=Christian Schmidt & Andreas Leistikow |year=2004 |title=Catalogue of the terrestrial Isopoda (Crustacea: Isopoda: Oniscidea) |journal=[[Steenstrupia (journal)|Steenstrupia]] |volume=28 |issue=1 |pages=1–118 |url=http://www.zmuc.dk/commonweb/JOURNALS/PDF/Vol28-1/Schmidt&Leistikow.pdf}} (all genera published until end of 2001)

[[Category:Isopods]]
[[Category:Terrestrial crustaceans]]
[[Category:Detritivores]]

[[ca:Porquet de Sant Antoni]]
[[da:Bænkebider]]
[[de:Landasseln]]
[[es:Oniscidea]]
[[fr:Cloporte]]
[[fy:Krobbe]]
[[io:Aselo]]
[[it:Oniscidea]]
[[lt:Vėdarėliai]]
[[hu:Szárazföldi ászkarákok]]
[[nl:Landpissebedden]]
[[ja:ワラジムシ亜目]]
[[no:Skrukketroll]]
[[nn:Skrukketroll]]
[[pt:Bicho-de-conta]]
[[ru:Мокрицы]]
[[simple:Sow bug]]
[[uk:Мокриці]]

Revision as of 23:37, 12 October 2008

< October 11 Deletion review archives: 2008 October October 13 >

12 October 2008

The DFenders

The DFenders (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore | cache | AfD))

This article satisfies three of Wikipedia's criteria for notability: this band has been nominated for a major music award, has received significant coverage in multiple reliable media sources, and has songs on rotation on major, national radio stations. Many editors called to delete this article simply because they had not heard of this band, rather than take Wikipedia's own criteria into consideration. Dogma inc (talk) 21:57, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Troopergate (Bill Clinton)

DRV incorrectly filed on October 11 under October 6 - moving here instead. Carcharoth (talk) 12:41, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Troopergate (Bill Clinton) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore | cache | AfD))

I nominated Troopergate (Bill Clinton), an article that about "an alleged scandal involving allegations by two Arkansas state troopers that they arranged sexual liaisons for then-governor Bill Clinton." The article has been on wikipedia for FOUR years and contains two sources, which call the event a manufactured "scandal." Despite the reasons, which I outlined below, it was closed within three hours by the above admin editor (not an admin.) claiming: "The result was Speedy keep, bad faith nom." I want to see if I can get the AFD reopened so my concerns can be addressed. My reasons, expanded here, for the AFD were as follows:

  • 1) The article "Troopergate" is about an "alleged scandal," which in my nomination I noted is dealt in detail with on Paula Jones's page (specifically Paula_Jones#Jones_v._Clinton). I think the article should be deleted, and maybe a redirect there.
  • 2) An article solely about one portion of an alleged series of sexual claims (which were thrown out in court) violates WP:BLP for Bill Clinton. Again, relevant information that complies with BLP is on the Paula Jones page.
  • 3) The title Troopergate, as I mentioned in the original nomination, is inappropriate. The other "Troopergate scandals" do not use troopergate in the title. For instance, there is not a Troopergate Palin article, but it is called Alaska Public Safety Commissioner dismissal despite "Palin's Troopergate" being a headline news story today (it is how I came across this article).

This article should be merged into the PAula Jones article. Apparently "troopergate" is a term that is only being used in a NY tabloid. This doesn't merit another article, and the term should not be used by Wikipedia to describe this. Wikipedia is not the place to showcase novel neologisms.[1]

  • 5) I just noticed in 2006 another editor noted: "the content was a subset of jones, and the notability is because of jones." He too thinks the material does not deserve an article independent of Jones.

In response to the AFD was two replies. One included claiming the AFD was "bad faith" because it is "more than notable and sourced and is not replaced by the current Alaska incident." Such remarks, show misunderstanding of my concerns and nomination: 1) It has TWO in-line sources over the last four years and 2) I did not call anywhere for the article to "replace" the Alaska incident. Thus, I believe these are legitimate concerns for an AFD, which was prematurely closed. We66er (talk) 22:49, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

DRV template added to the article. Carcharoth (talk) 12:49, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment - There is an ongoing AfD that may be affected by this DRV. -- Suntag ☼ 14:55, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
  • Endorse. The close was premature and should not have been called "bad faith" (closer, you jumped the gun), but this should stand. First of all, you never really gave a valid deletion reason. This incident was more than significant enough to receive a separate article. As for your points: 1) Simply because it is "alleged" doesn't warrant a deletion. It was still widely reported on. 2) It does not violate WP:BLP because the statements have a source (but could be sourced better), are true, and the article never claims he actually did anything anyways, only that they were alleged. 3) If you don't like the title, come up with a better one. That's not a deletion reason. The article needs more and better sources. But there is no reason to delete and this should have been brought up for discussion, not deletion. --UsaSatsui (talk) 15:34, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
UsaSatsui, you misunderstood my first point. Above I wrote "Troopergate" is "dealt in detail with on Paula Jones's page (specifically Paula_Jones#Jones_v._Clinton)." The Jones v.Clinton section deals with the allegations and subsequent lawsuit in much more detail. We66er (talk) 19:38, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
My point about the "alleged" actions were they are presented in a POV. I am not the only one concerned about the way in which one of the trooper's claims violate BLP. Again, my point was this is better presented on the Jones article since it is about that event and does not need an independent article. We66er (talk) 19:44, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep. this is a scandal that is rooted in american history. it should be kept in Wikipedia.Degrassi. 19:10, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment What does "Troopergate" deal with that isn't or can't be explored at Paula_Jones#Jones_v._Clinton? The Jones' piece covers the allegations and failed lawsuit. We66er (talk) 19:14, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
    • Please note This is NOT the place to discuss the merits of the article. This forum is for reviewing the AFD itself only. PHARMBOY (TALK) 19:47, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep as Closed I suggested a speedy keep in the original AFD, and questioned the nom's motives in a more colorful and indirect manner. The nomination itself DOES appear to be biased, in my opinion, and in the opinion of others. Personally, I would have waited for one more 'keep' and worded the summary differently, but the net result would have been the same. The only "crime" here is being too blunt (ie: honest) in summing up the conclusions that we participants had already drawn and clearly stated. I have worked with Hammer a little, and I'm confident he is smart enough to see that it would have been better to choose a more neutral closing statement and wait for another 'keep' or two. This was a gut judgement call on his part, and most experienced editors have made similar calls before (for better or worse), so I don't question his motives. As for the nomination itself, my original statement stands without modification. PHARMBOY (TALK) 19:47, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
This is not the first time Hammer's been accused of "jumping the gun" on AFDs: Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/TenPoundHammer_6#Oppose. Read the 54 opposing comments and 18 neutral comments for examples of that. In fact, his closures and behavior seems to the be the crux of his six RFAR failures. Nonetheless, you question me when other editors have the same concerns about the article. I would appreciate if you focus on the content and not level further accusations. We66er (talk) 20:02, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
Comment This forum isn't for discussing RFA's either. My focus and the entire purpose of this forum is to discuss the process of closing the AFD, not the content of the article, as I have tried to explain to you above. This is degrading into a personal attack against TenPoundHammer rather than a review of an AFD, which will not be tolorated. PHARMBOY (TALK) 20:21, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
You brought up your experience with Hammer so I cited other people's AFD experience/complaints with him. I have not attacked anyone. As I wrote to you above: I would appreciate if you focus on the content and not level further accusations. We66er (talk) 20:27, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
  • Endorse as closer. Yes, it was a little premature and hasty of me, but I stand by my closure. There are sources and the article can easily be expanded. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP) 20:32, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
I appreciate you apologized on my talk. For the record, I never said there weren't sources. I wrote that it has no notablity outside of Paula Jones or Jones v Clinton. A glance at Google News 1994 for "Troopergate Clinton" shows the 87 hits are about Jones (or Brock's article about Jones). We66er (talk) 20:52, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
I still think that those sources are enough for an article. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP) 20:53, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
They all are about Paula Jones, which later became the Paula_Jones#Jones_v._Clinton case. As I asked above, what are in those sources that is not covered or relevant to Jones or Jones v Clinton? If this can be explained then there are two issues and thus, a point to having two articles. We66er (talk) 21:07, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
WP:Deletion Review#Commenting_in_a_deletion_review states: "Remember that Deletion Review is not an opportunity to (re-)express your opinion on the content in question." This forum is an opportunity to correct errors in process relating to an AFD/deletion/keep. This is not the place to discuss content of an article. I have tried to politely say this twice previously. This is not a 2nd AFD. Please keep it on topic. PHARMBOY (TALK) 21:36, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
I was responding to an inaccurate concern made by the person who prematurely closed the AFD. If that person closed the AFD on that misunderstanding then it is relevant to this discussion. You can stop commenting on the DRV purpose, it is understood. We66er (talk) 21:55, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
  • Overturn and reclose as keep without the assumption of bad faith. Stifle (talk) 20:40, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment - the concerns about whether or not this should be a separate article should probably be addressed in a merge discussion. Someone could be bold and carry out a merge and see if it sticks. But maybe not right now. Carcharoth (talk) 21:48, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
  • Endorse close. I am tempted to suggest a relist since 3 hours is awfully fast for even a speedy keep and the accusation of bad faith was unwarranted but there is no point in reopening it so it can be speedy closed again in 22 hours by an admin. Therefore, my recommendation is to slap TenPoundHammer and his otters with some trout and leave the close as is. Eluchil404 (talk) 22:23, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
  • Overturn and reclose as speedy keep a snow keep will obviously be the conclusion no matter who does it, but I see the point of Stifle's suggestion above, to remove the "bad faith" from the record. Apart from that inappropriate wording, --admin or non-admin it would have been a little fast for the circumstances; over-rapid closes typically are counterproductive, because they just result in long discussions here. I suggest that perhaps in order to prevent drift into worse problems, we consider asking Hammer not to make any XfD closes at all, or as a minimum and speedy XfD closes. There are enough other people to do them. DGG (talk) 23:37, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
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