Talk:Spouse of the prime minister of the United Kingdom

First sentence

The first sentence looks a bit odd, starting by saying what the PM's spouse isn't, and doing so by reference to the U.S. first lady. This is not really a useful comparison because the PM doesn't fulfil the same role as the U.S. president. Also, by the current wording, there might be an inference that they are always women. Trouble is, I can't really suggest how to improve it. The title pretty much describes the role! Bluewave 17:59, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Hannah Primrose, Countess of Rosebery

Lady Rosebery was never a prime-minister's spouse, she died four years before he attained that office. Giano 08:25, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

This is actually a list of all prime ministers and their spouses. It is pedantry to exclude spouses who never set foot in downing street, or some other arbitrary rule. In order to get a rounded view of the prime ministers we need this simple list of all spouses (and life partners if any emerge). It is arguably much more informative to know that walpole's wives died 'in office', whilst rosebury and macdonald were grieving widowers, rosebury beneficiently wealthy beyond measure and macdonald in penury trying to also raise and employ his family. Ergo - Hannah de R should be included in this list and the succession boxes, annotated to clarify the detail. Autodidactyl 19:46, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Fine but she was never a Prime Minister's wife that should be made clear. Giano 19:55, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Cleanup needed

There's quite a lot that makes this article a mess:

1). UK ministers are never numbered in any official sense, and to use one is POV and unnecessary.

2). Most people would associate "Spouse of the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom" with a person married to the PM whilst in office. Previously deceased wives, divorced wives, later remarriages etc... are worth a sidenote mention, but shouldn't be included in a list of incumbents.

3). Very few of these women are ever referred to by their maiden names (Cherie Blair's professional career is very much the exception) and some have had several names in their lives (e.g. Norma Major). It does feel like an American convention being applied to a list of Britons. And this application is currently very inconsistent. Plus the nav boxes that I can see are using generally their names as people knew them at the time (although not always grasping how the peerage works).

4). By the same measure, I think listing peerage titles that the women didn't hold at the time their husbands were in office (off the top of my head Joan Canning and Clementine Churchill - Mary Disraeli is a more convoluted case as from recollection she was conferred the title after her husband left office the first time but died before he returned to power) is a recipe for confusion. Maybe mention it in a notes section, but I think only those who had titles in Downing Street should be mentioned (I think Hester Pitt, 1st Baroness Chatham is the only one).

5). I'm also not sure alternative "hostesses" is at all workable. It again feels like an attempt to translate the US position of First Lady into a country where it doesn't exist at all formally. (And some Prime Ministers didn't reside at the formal residence - e.g. Harold Wilson in his second term - or just treated it as a workplace.)

I can make a start on this over the next few days but don't want to tamper with the table syntax - anyone bold enough to? Timrollpickering 21:11, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Further cleanup and categorisation

Both this page and Category:Spouses of Prime Ministers of the United Kingdom will need to be in accord as to which women (and one man) do and don't fit the definition of "spouse of the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom".

Because the post is in no way official, there are various different criteria that can be applied which produce different lists.

As a starting point, and following a similar practice at Talk:First Lady of the United States, here's a list of all the possible candidates since 1902 (to keep the list managable, but I'll come back to the 18th and the 19th centuries later):

a) Living spouses of sitting PMs

The easiest ones to define:

• Charlotte Campbell-Bannerman
• Margot Asquith
• Margaret Lloyd George
• Lucy Baldwin
• Anne Chamberlain
• Clementine Churchill
• Violet Attlee
• Clarissa Eden
• Lady Dorothy Macmillan
• Elizabeth Douglas-Home
• Mary Wilson
• Audrey Callaghan
• Denis Thatcher
• Norma Major
• Cherie Blair
• Sarah Brown

The PM's spouse by any definition.

b) Deceased spouses

The following died before their husbands first took office:

• Annie Bonar Law
• Margaret MacDonald

Both are categorised but not listed here. I don't think either would normally be listed.

c) Divorced spouses

Anthony Eden was the only Prime Minister to have divorced. Listing Beatrice Beckett as a PM's spouse would feel strange.

d) Later remarriages

David Lloyd George married again in 1943, long after leaving office. Including Frances Stevenson as a PM's spouse again feels strange.

-

There are more examples of many of these with the earlier period but what are people's thoughts? I'd be inclined to regard only the ones listed under a) as "spouse of the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom" and not include the rest in the category or list them here. Timrollpickering 15:04, 21 July 2007 (UTC)