Talk:Donna Williams

Biographical Information?

Where was Williams born? There's no biographical information about her early life or family. I can't find any info about her university years or qualifications. Who diagnosed her? In what country was Williams diagnosed? Was the diagnosis Asperger syndrome or Autistic Disorder or something else? Does Williams have any other developmental of psychiatric diagnosis? Has she been diagnosed with Multiple Personality Disorder? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.168.120.76 (talk) 11:49, 14 April 2007 (UTC).

A back issue of "Our Voice" (I can't remember which issue and I can't find my collection at the moment) says Lawrie Bartak diagnosed her. She has said a number of times that she is diagnosed with autism and not Asperger's, I'm sure you can find that on her website if you look enough. There is genealogical and family information available on her website. Not all information is publicly available though. A lot of Wikipedia subjects don't have exact dates and places of birth for instance. Silentmiaow 22:51, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Move

I think "author" is a more appropriate disambiguation term than "writer". Q0 08:41, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

• Move ◄ИΞШSΜΛЯΞ► 08:59, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Done. —Nightstallion (?) ^{Seen this already?} 07:04, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Conflict Of Interest, Non-neutral Source

As noted by wikipedia at the top of the Discussion area:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Donna_Williams_%28author%29

The creator of this article, or someone who has substantially contributed to it, may have a conflict of interest regarding its subject matter. It may require cleanup to comply with Wikipedia's content policies, particularly neutral point of view. Please discuss further on the talk page.

Donna Williams herself has been an active editor and contributor to this article on her. The person who is the subject of the article shouldn't take part in the construction and editing of the article.--Appto (talk) 16:59, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

I'd like to request that Donna's additions and editing be looked at. It appears that she uses this encyclopedia as a personal website to promote and draw attention to her books, websites, blogs, media coverage, etc, as she does on her website. --Appto (talk) 17:22, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Experts, media, doctors, a former professor, former acquaintances of Donna discuss that Donna Williams diagnosis is controversial

ABC Radio National - The Health Report. From Australia (Williams lives in Australia) "Autism - a special report by Kathy Gollan" An investigation by Kathy Gollan [1] The legitimacy of Donna Williams's diagnosis of autism is discussed by autism experts. Some excerpts:

"Kathy Gollan: There has to be serious doubt about whether Donna Williams is autistic, and her books should be read with that in mind.

As for Donna, she may have made a prison for herself, but it seems that she's happy there. But she's also now making a living out of being autistic, running a consultancy and advising parents on the basis of her own supposed condition. That's a cause for concern.

If the diagnosis of autism in Donna is wrong, how could this happen? Professor Fred Volkmar.

Fred Volkmar: I have never myself had anyone where I thought the question was of somebody faking any tests, or indeed trying to "pass" as an autistic person, doesn't mean it couldn't happen. But I have never seen it. It's not something that people usually are eager to get as a diagnosis, but it doesn't mean it couldn't happen.

Kathy Gollan: What if, to take a theoretical situation, you came across a person who was studying Sociology at University who at University had acted in a play, who'd received an award for community service saying that they enjoyed working with underprivileged people, who seemed by lay people to be quite competent in the social hurly burly of University life, and indeed got an Honours degree in Sociology; are any of those things consistent with autism?

Fred Volkmar: They would be extremely unusual.

Kathy Gollan: You've never come across it in your experience?

Fred Volkmar: I know a number of people who have been college graduates with autism. They tend to be kind of idiosyncratic, eccentric folks who tend to be kind of loners or they've had unusual interests and they have not usually had really strong, reciprocal social interactions, they don't have very good friends or friendship relationships. It would be extremely unusual with that history to have someone who was autistic.

Kathy Gollan: And you've seen many people with autism?

Fred Volkmar: Probably over a thousand.

Kathy Gollan: And if in this theoretical situation, such a person later began to exhibit classic signs of autism, what would you think?

Fred Volkmar: People pretty much seem to be born with autism. When you talk to parents, they will tell you either from the word go, from the time the baby was a very little infant, or in a small - it would be 25% of cases - after age two, but before age three by definition, but before age three in any case, by definition, the person had marked problems with social interaction, communication and some other very unusual behaviours.

Someone who develops the syndrome, the "behavioural syndrome of autism" after age three, in fact is not technically called autistic, they have other troubles. But by definition you have to have problems before age three to get the diagnosis of autism.

Kathy Gollan: In fact Donna's psychologist, Dr Bartak, did not directly speak to anyone in Donna's family, and we haven't been able to contact them either. So we don't know whether she had the symptoms in early childhood.

Fred Volkmar: Then it's hard for me to know what to make of Donna Williams. Donna Williams' books in my view, while very interesting, are not typical of the experience of at least the 20, 30 or 40 higher functioning autistic people that I have come to know fairly well."

Other excerpts:

"Kathy Gollan: There is clearly a huge discrepancy between the person Dr Bartak saw in his rooms and the person at University a few years earlier. In fact the crucial symptoms critical for a diagnosis of autism were jut not there in the late 80s.

This has emerged from interviews with a group of people who knew Donna at University.

Chris Eipper lectured Donna in several Sociology courses and was her supervisor in her final year when she was writing her Sociology thesis. The title was 'Deviance and Normality: Exercises in Alienation.'

Chris Eipper: I mean I pushed her because of the nature of her topic, and because of the kinds of assertions she would make, that she was someone who you could really engage in debate with. I found her intuitive, she was very astute and very canny. I thought she was very shrewd." --Appto (talk) 17:24, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

It appears that Donna's diagnosis is highly questionable. I didn't know the extent until I saw the ABC.net Australia article [1], and exceptional article interviewing world renowned autism specialist Fred Volkmar of Yale, and William's doctor herself, and a former professor of her who attests to how she was very socially and communicatively functional in the 1980's, and a former friend/acquaintance who observed the apparent intentional adoption and claiming of autism. The Amanda Baggs situation is seemingly even more astounding http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanda_Baggs see the Talk page, and the Dispute of Neutrality as of today. Many people from her former college, Simon's Rock College, have come forward to testify that they were shocked upon seeing her CNN and other media coverage that shows a severely non-verbal autistic person. Each of the 4 people, and also increasing numbers of Simon's people are coming forward, witnessed her from 1994-1995 especially, and onward to 1998, to be not autistic in any sense. At Simon's in 1994-1995 she was witnessed, like the witness to Donna Williams as seen in the article, to be fully socially and communicatively functional, normal emotionally and with regard to behavior and eye contact. She then at about 20 years old, after extreme LSD abuse in 1995, and years of psychiatric hospitalizations and residential care, and after years of claiming to have multiple personalities (Dissociative Identity Disorder [DID]), retracted her claim to DID and began to claim autism, and began to claim she was loosing her speech, and began to engage in extreme "stimming" or stereotyped movements, and uses a wheelchair voluntarily because as she reports she has trouble with balance when walking, and uses a keyboard communicator to talk, and makes no eye contact. Various press and scientists have been contacted about this, and some have replied and the matter is ongoing.--Appto (talk) 18:45, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I've followed the Williams' issues for a long time on the internet, and I've seen how Wiki has been used inappropriately in a number of autism-related bios, but I've had no one to help me on this. Remember, getting your website on Wiki is a fast track to a high google ranking, so some people spread their bio info and blogs throughout Wiki articles. You're going to have to seriously learn Wiki policies and guidelines to deal with all of this; for example, the AfD you put on Baggs was reverted because you put up the old AfD. I'm dismal at AfD; take time to learn guidelines and policies. You need reliable sources on both the Williams and Baggs issues (take care with WP:BLP statements, even on talk pages). If you post reliable sources to the talk pages, I'll work on them as I have time, but I am really swamped and can't help too much on this. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:01, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Also, you've got to spend more time learning Wiki policy; we can't remove items from a bio just because they were added by someone who is biased. If they conform with WP:V, WP:RS, WP:BLP and WP:UNDUE, they stay. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:09, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Also, where is the abc.net Australia article? You need to put the link on the talk page; I haven't found it yet. I'll try to work on this tomorrow. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:13, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/8.30/helthrpt/hstories/hr290796.htm I went back and placed it above in my initial post above as well. It's an extraordinary investigation - extremely exhaustive and with exceptional references, and the references' replies are shown in the Question-Answer format interview.--Appto (talk) 18:45, 10 March 2008 (UTC)--Appto (talk) 18:37, 10 March 2008 (UTC)