Talk:Secret Invasion

Synopsis section out of control!

Okay fanboys, rein yourselves in a bit. We know this is an ongoing event, but we certainly don't need every single panel's actions to be included in this synopsis. I know you're passionate and all, but someone's gonna have to trim this down a bit. Fetternity (talk) 04:29, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. I noticed that too. I'll probably attempt a trim tomorrow, if nobody's gotten to it. AniMate 04:58, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

If nothing else, I think it worth asking whether it is in our interests to jump from summarizing the main book to summarizing tie-ins in such a willy-nilly fashion. It heavily detracts from being able to follow the main plot thread. Phil Sandifer (talk) 19:04, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

I've removed all of the summaries from the tie-ins and left a summary of the limited series in it's place. I haven't touched anything that takes place before SI #1 though, so that still needs to be done. Rau's Speak Page 00:39, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps if it is not published in the main series, it shouldn't be mentioned unless absolutely necessary. Thoughts? Rau's Speak Page 00:40, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

I'd say that the lead-up should have its own section, as it was distinctly building to events, and that some sort of "tie-ins" section might also justifiably exist that could discuss some of the tie-ins as needed. Phil Sandifer (talk) 12:47, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Why did you cut out so much, not the plot section is a joke, this is supposed to help people understand what is happening in the books and now you know nothing, this is why anal fanboys should not be in control, i would undo everything but you whining people would change it back. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aknddon3 (talk • contribs) 17:41, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

It was out of control. This is a cleaner version, but not a finished version. This is an encyclopedia. Not a fansite. We don't need for it to have a blow-by-blow of the event. In fact, certain things shouldn't be mentioned here. Like the events of CB:MI 13, Ms. Marvel, X-Factor, Incredible Hercules, Thunderbolts, She-Hulk, and any other stand alone series. Rau's Speak Page 18:41, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

I tried to look at the plot section yesterday before it was trimmed, because I haven't gotten to the store to buy issue #5 yet. It was an unreadable mess, and I couldn't even come close to figuring out the latest developments. Which is to say, the old plot section was not doing its job. I looked again after Rau cut it, and was quite satisfied. Phil Sandifer (talk) 19:50, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Glad you liked it! But my grammar could have been better, and it wasn't out-of-universe. If anyone wants to clean it up, feel encouraged. Rau's Speak Page 20:59, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Ever since it was modified from Limited Series to The Invasion, it has be come far too large again. I personally think that for now, it should only include the limited series. *SIGN* 21:54, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

I think part of the problem is the ongoing bit. At the moment everytime something happens people want to add to the article. It may be better to wait until the end and then attempt a massive copy edit so we only hit the high/low points. Personally, I think the whole article is too big with way too much non-essential information but, I'm waiting until the end before trying to fight any "battles" over it. Jasynnash2 (talk) 08:35, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm going to make efforts to trim the synopsis to focus on just the main Secret Invasion mini-series, and remove as much of the "blow by blow / panel by panel" fangasms that give us Marvel Zombies such a bad reputation. EDIT: Made some more major snips to cut the fat down to a managable size. Sorry if I'm not linking everything just yet.Shin-Goji (talk) 05:00, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Had to make more edits. Someone just posted the synopsis of the latest Nova. Can I get a consensus that the sysnopsis ONLY needs to deal with the goings-on of the main title?Shin-Goji (talk) 22:43, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

You do understand that all the side stories add to the main plot so leaving them out takes away like 75% of the story, your stupidity is ruining this page now people who do not have money to buy the books have to go without understanding a single thing that is going on. Unless you personally link everything and go to all the pages for the characters and add in what is happening then let everything related to SECRET INVASION BE IN THE PLOT. MORON —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.190.62.62 (talk) 15:26, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

I respectfully disagree. This is not a fanzine. So what if people don't have enough money to buy every single crossover? Look at the House of M entry. It's very well organized and does not do a panel by panel recount of every comic. This is a digital encyclopedia, not your personal jukebox. All the side stories garnish the main plot, they are not 75% of it.Shin-Goji (talk) 22:31, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

I also disagree. For the same reasons as above. When was the last time a tie-in actually added to the story instead of just expanding it? The only ones that even come close are the Avengers ones and they only explained the past events. *SIGN* 02:18, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Everysingle tie in relates and adds into the story, sorry but this is not your website or your kid you have no right to ruin it for everyone because you are a moron. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.190.62.62 (talk) 03:05, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Just because it relates to the story doesn't mean it adds anything. Was the Skrull Armada defeated in a tie-in? No. Did the invasion begin in a tie-in? No. Very few tie-ins add anything to the story. Also, personal attacks make people ignore your opinion. So, unless you are going to be civil, you can take this to a fansite. *SIGN* 03:48, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Lets see in a tie in the "HE" they talk about is killed, in a tie in you find out that the replaced heroes are not dead, in a tie in you find out how the invasion happened, so atleast include the avengers tie in. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.190.62.62 (talk) 16:15, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

You know, I'm not going to take any personal attacks from someone who doesn't even care enough about the article to sign on and create an account so that we have a name to go along with your IP. The majority has ruled against you on the issue. Before I made my moronic edits, this article was ALL over the place, including such groundbreaking and story defining sentences as "Tony throws up a lot." Fanboys are the worst thing to happen to the genre, and are the reason comic fans get cast in such a negative light. Please show me one starving, crippled, homeless child that I have wronged with my edits. I have followed the Wikipedia policies and procedures, while you sit there screaming and insulting. you are not helping your case.Shin-Goji (talk) 02:40, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

That then becomes biased for including some, but not all, tie-ins. *SIGN* 21:10, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

As usual, people who have little to no interest in this type of articles end up ruining the experience for the rest of us.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 02:39, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

I would like to see how two people make a majority, me and about 20 friends are against what the fangirls did so wouldnt that make me the majority? I understand taking out idiotic statements, but taking out anything that relates to the plot like fact that hercules killed the HE, or that Black Bolt is alive and thus that means the heros may still be alive, etc. that is just moronic. You understand that they have the tie ins because they cannot have this complex story in just 8 issues? With out the tie ins you are lost, and ask my roommate why he has to go out and shell $150+ just so he can get an understanding of what is happening because some idiot on wikipedia thought that he had the right to act like god. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.190.62.62 (talk) 01:49, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

God? Are you serious? Thats total BS. You have yet to provide a valid reason for all of that informations inclusion. Including it is "idiotic" because it becomes an unreadable mess. And your roommate needs to work on his comprehension skills because I can understand the entire story by reading the main series alone. And we do have interest "in this type of articles" and I fail to see how we ruin it for the rest of you. If you don't want to get off your ass and buy the issues then shut the hell up. You're just bitching because you're too cheap to purchase the material that you are interested in. The majority(established editors, I don't consider ip's to count in that) have ruled against this. Don't like it, go somewhere else. *SIGN* 02:21, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Wow, you really love that word "moron" don't you, 207.190.62.62? Did you just learn it? I will concede to you that important things happen in tie-ins, like Spider-Woman's past as a Skrull. But we mention those only when it really is that important. We are not a charitable organization whose purpose is to keep people from having to spend money on comic books. Where is your roomate buying comics from anyway, Mars? Because I would have to buy 37 titles to equal $150, and there aren't that many crossovers. You call me a child in an earlier rant when you really sound like the immature one. You really are quite amusing and I get a wealth of entertainment out of your hostility. Honestly, I feel sorry for you, but I envy you that THIS is the worst thing that can happen in your day. But it's OK, because I AM God, and I love you too...Shin-Goji (talk) 02:59, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

• Could you all (and you know who you are), please get back to discussing the issue in somesort of civilised manner without resorting to the name calling and such. Thanks. Jasynnash2 (talk) 08:14, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

• Hi, I don't yet have an account, as I've never been moved to weigh in on a discussion before. But I agree wholeheartedly with Gonzalo84: two editors appear to have a distaste for fanboys, clearly, but somewhat miss the point entirely when considering the article as a whole. If you want to take out the fanboy-level writing, then edit the entire article down to "A story set within the Marvel universe, concerning the invasion of earth by a with ALLn alien race." After all, this isn't some comic-con fanboy, right?

The thing is, this is a Marvel event, and as always Marvel events do indeed span numerous titles, which can as you say be confusing. However, one might argue that removing all tie-in stories will also remove crucial plot points. This isn't about making it easy on poorer comic readers at all, it's about documenting a fictional history, which the rest of Wikipedia is already filled with. The sole problem was that it was written terribly by the various posters, confusing for the low levels of articulation alone. Cleaning it up would have been easy, but decimating it was nothing more than an over-zealous tantrum to fan a few flames. As another poster pointed out, two people agreeing vehemently with each other isn't a majority, it's someone shouting 'yeah, what he said'. Secret Invasion is an event, and should be documented as such, even if it takes a while to get it all in order. Also, 'we fanboys' are the ones who love the comics, who buy them all, and who would love a lot of other people to be as fascinated by them as we are. Being a Wikipedia editor doesn't mean being grumpy, I hope? Add a little sunshine to your day and smile more. Rob Sandall, 9th October 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.71.46.62 (talk) 12:32, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

You can't have every cross-over title in the article. That would increase the length of an Wiki listing that is already flagged as being too long. This Secret Invasion page must be about the mini-series title only. There's enough outside fo the mini-series at the beginning of the article already. How much are the readers REALLY missing? Not much. By taking out the cross-over stuff, I have not taken out 75% of the story. If that were true, then Secret Invasion is a really poorly written story with ALL of the action taking place outside of the mini-series. I have acknowledged that certain things like Spider-Woman's origin are important enough to include. But we don't need EVERY cross over listing. You can also criticize my edits all you want, but before I cut the necessary fat nobody was doing anything about a problem that was clearly detrimental to the article. People were coming in and throwing blurbs of their favorite comics for the honor of having contributed to the article, not for the promotion of the article. Continuity was a joke and a timeline was non-existant. In order to get things backunder control, it was necessary to perform amputative surgery, and reduce the stock down to the core of the story, which is the Secret Invasion title. I still say that we don't need a full synopsis for EVERY cross over, especially when this Wiki entry is FLAGGED as being too long. Long article is looooooooooooooooong.Shin-Goji (talk) 19:00, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

How about this, if you are so concerned about the article being too long first you need to get your panties out of a bunch then you can go and create a side page for all the information that you think is not important because if you actually clicked on the links none of the other pages talk about what is happening during secret invasion, what is the point of an encyclopedia if you are going to leave out atleast 30 different events? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.190.62.62 (talk) 22:28, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

I strongly disagree. Each hero's page has their own section about the Secret Invasion, among other Marvel tentpole events like Civil War, so you are mistaken on that pont. The page has been marked as being too long, and I made what I thought were the necessary incisions to cut it down. Not every event in Secret Invasion is noteworthy enough to stick in the article. An encyclopedia does not cover every historical minute detail. Fanpages and fanzines do that. From the Wiki article: "an encyclopedia treats each subject in more depth and conveys the most relevant accumulated knowledge on that subject or discipline, given the overall length of the particular work". Highlight on the words MOST RELEVANT. Shin-Goji (talk) 00:43, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Go to the new avengers page it says nothing, it is a joke, go to the mighty avengers page it says nothing. All tie ins are important because if they were not then they would not exist the problem is that you think your OPINION IS FACT. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.190.62.62 (talk) 05:39, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

So far you haven't signed up for a Wiki account. You just sit here yelling about injustice. How about you join the group and contribute to the article? You seem to have an idea, so why not add to the article yourself? I went to the New Avengers artcile and it has a Secret Invasion listing. if you can put aside your hostility, you can see that the staff has noted: "It contains a plot summary that is too long compared to the rest of the article. Tagged since June 2008. It may be too long. Some content may need to be summarized or split. Tagged since September 2008." Well, that is what I did, I summarized it. There's just too much going on in the other books to list every blow by blow battle and plot twist. Look at House of M. That is a BEAUTIFUL article and this one should aspire to be like it in content. house of M had gobs of crossover content, and not every detail was taken from those stories for the main article. Please, I implore you to either join in helping to craft the article, or to quit yelling at everyone to do the work for you.Shin-Goji (talk) 06:25, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Known Skrull Agents

This section is entirely plot. Doesn't really need a section, does it? All it does is list people who have been impersonated by Skrulls, which any prominent Skrulls would be listed in the plot section. Thoughts on removing it? Rau's Speak Page 03:12, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

I would say the Known Skrull Agents needs to be removed. This is not a scorecard.Shin-Goji (talk) 05:01, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

I think that the Known Skrull Agents should be there. Whether or not this is a "scorecard" it helps those of us not in proximity of a comic shop to follow what is going on. Removing this limits the scope of the article and edits out a valuable resource/reference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.61.76.201 (talk) 20:15, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

This isn't a fanservice. It's not here to give you as much information as possible. Only encyclopedic information, and a scorecard is not. *SIGN* 20:33, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Encyclopedic information will contain information such as the Known Skrull list. To edit out information such as this makes this a "fanzine" with only plot synopsis and no background supporting documents or information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.61.76.201 (talk) 01:07, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Actually, the inclusion of such information makes this a "fanzine". The section was a target for OR and added nothing to the article. It's entirely in-universe that can't be put in out-of-universe. There are numerous reasons for its removal. *SIGN* 04:39, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

I agree wholeheartedly. We don't need a listing of every known Skrull. Who cares about the Cobalt Man. The main plot points like Hank Pym and jessica Drew are mentioned in the synopsis.Shin-Goji (talk) 05:01, 28

September 2008 (UTC)

I like that option but we should list it as major Skrull reveals. We don't need to list all of the crashed ship characters or the minor characters like She Thing.

Instead of THAT, how about we just have a single sentence in one of the paragraphs about the invasion? That way we don't have to give it its own section opening up the door for the fanboys to start listing every MINOR reveal back to the Skrull Cows.Shin-Goji (talk) 20:51, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Instead of edit warring, can we discuss this? I'd be very interested to hear from the IPs who continue to reinsert the section. What makes this necessary outside of the plot section? AniMate 04:12, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm putting the vote that we DO NOT need it. The Skrulls in question who are IMPORTANT to the plot are discussed in the plot, that being Drew, Pym and Jarvis. We could fill a Wiki with the number of Skrulls who have infiltrated Earth, space, and the Pantheon. It's unnecessary.Shin-Goji (talk) 01:37, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

I think that it should be there for easy access.```` —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.175.169.47 (talk) 06:06, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

However, as I said before, everyone is going to want to put every Skrull who's ever posed as anyone. That could be an article unto itself, and the issue is that the article has been flagged as being too long. Shin-Goji (talk) 18:55, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Dark Reign

Is this section needed here? As far as I can tell, it's going to be a separate event. Like Civil War/Initiative or House of M/Decimation. I feel that once the plot is known, it should have it's own article, and until then, should be left out of this article, or mentioned only in passing. Thoughts? *SIGN* 03:03, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

I believe Bendis said that it would be a banner more than an event, like The Initiative was plastered over the top of various books for a while. It's a theme more than an event. However, it may warrant a seperate section depending on the events of Secret Invasion #8. Planewalker Dave (talk) 05:57, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

This section doesn't belong at Secret Invasion as it is a separate event/theme thing. Mentioning it in the history or storylines thing at Marvel Comics though may be appropriate. Jasynnash2 (talk) 11:00, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

I'll take care of it.Shin-Goji (talk) 05:02, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

I've added in the new interview: There are actually Secret Invasion tie-ins and the end of Secret Invasion leads into Mighty Anvegers #20 and on into Dark Avengers. (Emperor (talk) 02:52, 30 September 2008 (UTC))

Is it REALLY necessary, though? I remember when Civil War was wrapping up, someone already posted that the next event would be called "Skrulltopia" or something like that, and this was a full year at least before Elektra was revealed as a Skrull. The Wiki article was reverted and the Skrulltopia was considered vandalism. Now at least the article has some backing, but shouldn't we wait until the event actually concludes and moves on to the next inifinite calamity? Just throwing it out there.Shin-Goji (talk) 03:35, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

This is a different situation. This is like my examples above. It's not like House of M/Civil War/Secret Invasion. Quite different. Those were all unrelated events. Dark Reign is directly connected to SI just like Initiative was connected to CW and Decimation to HoM. But I don't feel it is necessary because, while connected, they are separate event. Yes, they intertwine, but so did CW and Initiative. And the CW and HoM articles don't mention Initiative and Decimation in their own sections, just a line in the lead. Perhaps there needs to be a guideline in the MOS for this... *SIGN* 04:05, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

I feel it is necessary because, as the quote I've given makes clear, Mighty Avengers #20 is a Secret Invasion tie-in and Dark Avengers starts immediately after this and there will also be a Secret Invasion: Dark Reign one-shot. There is clearly no gap between the of Secret Invasion and the start of Dark Reign (they former runs straight into the latter) - the latter deals with the aftermath of the Secret Invasion and the new status quo it has established. It may even be that we don't need a Dark Reign article but it can be covered in a section here as a continuation of the story. We'll have to wait and see. (Emperor (talk) 13:50, 30 September 2008 (UTC))

I'll agree to that. The waiting bit, not the keep them together bit. *SIGN* 02:25, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Collected Editions

Not meaning to nitpick, I just want an open discussion. Is the collected editions section necessary to this already lengthy artcile, especially when they haven't even been released yet. Could this be trimmed down to just bullet points?Shin-Goji (talk) 22:40, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

"My God has a hammer"

Is this a throw away comment and in-universe style report? Nick Fury does not worship Thor, it's just a snarky commentary before the battle. Iron Man shouting "Avengers Assemble" is more like a "Shot heard 'round the world", than "My God has a hammer" which is more like a t-shirt on Cafepress. It's even up there with "Nick Fury was right." Should it be removed and changed out for the Iron Man moment?Shin-Goji (talk) 07:02, 11 October 2008 (UTC)