Talk:Stock market crash

It is imperative to mention the 1987 crash! --Daniel C. Boyer

1837, 1857, 1873, 1909-- keeping the purely Ameicocentric POV... --Wetman 12:20, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

2007 crash

How about the "crash" now in 2007,f u b or was that not a so called crash?? Can anyone please point me to some online reading about what happened and why - as I've found not many articles about this, despite looking on many financial websites

It's a little too early to call it a crash just yet. Most commentators are calling it a "correction". As far as causes for the recent downturn, the one that's mentioned the most is the fear that China would clamp down on speculative excesses in their stock market. But sometimes crashes happen, for no apparent reason. When stock prices seem very high, people can get nervous and make a crash a self-fulfilling prophecy. WynnQuon 22:14, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

How about now? Is it still to early to say the stock market is crashing as we speak? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.123.165.106 (talk) 15:27, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

What about the Crash of 2000 in the U.S. & the Japanese Crash of 1987?

Shouldn't the series of crashes that occurred in Nasdaq leading to a decline in market barometer assessment from 5200 to roughly 1600 be included? Or does an 80% decline in value not constitute a market crash? This market decline also starkly affected the European and Asian stock markets that were linked to the Nasdaq...

Also, why isn't the crash in Japan in 1987 or 1988 mentioned? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Stevenmitchell (talk • contribs) 11:09, 7 May 2007 (UTC).

Yeah they need to be added. If you have time pls do so. --Dilaudid 09:32, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Definition

Can a crash be purely defined, like a drop in at least 15 or 20% in a single day? And do bubbles count? --70.111.218.254 00:37, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Sadly i haven't come across any commonly-accepted precise, numerical definition of a crash. Generally speaking most crashes are declines in the double digit percentages that occur over a short period of time. This is sometimes distinguished from a "bear market" where there are equally large declines but over longer periods of time. WynnQuon 03:27, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

The NYSE will close automatically after a drop of 30%. Maybe that should be the definition of a crash? Also, watch out for edits by 65.8.155.185... They've already vandalized the page a couple times. --Mike

It's an interesting suggestion Mike (the 30% figure), but unfortunately it isn't up to us to define it. If this measure was widely accepted already in the financial industry then we could list it as a definition, but since we have no standard-setting authority, we can't. Also thanks for the warning on 65.8.155.185 :) WynnQuon 20:37, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism

We seem to be experiencing an increase in vandalism. My personal objective is to have any vandalism reverted within 12 hours or less. Goodbye sad vandals.74.12.249.98 04:09, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

External Links

I think we may need to work on getting some external links on this page, there is not that much information here, and there are resources all over the internet to learn about the various Stock Market crashes domestic and foregin that have happened. What are your opinions on this? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.118.190.226 (talk) 20:28, 30 April 2007 (UTC).

Would it not be better to label the first figure "DJIA from July to December" Drmurphy 23:38, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Nonsense statement?

The paragraph about the October 1987 contain the statement "Trading in many stocks encountered a pathological condition where the ask price for a stock exceeded the bid price. These "locked" conditions severely curtailed trading." which is nonsense. I don't know what the author was trying to say, but what they said makes no sense. The "ask price" always exceeds the "bid price". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eregli bob (talk • contribs) 03:33, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Normally the ask price is higher than bid, but believe it or not, this can break down under severe circumstances and even under normal circumstances across markets. See for example, this discussion: http://www.financetech.com/featured/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=14702074 and this long academic study: http://www.fma.org/Chicago/Papers/LockednCrossedMarkets-FMA.pdf WynnQuon (talk) 04:54, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Do you understand what the first link you are refering to says? It describes a situation where the bid price exceeds the ask price, which is an order matching/routing/communication problem if not outright 'pathological'. The original complaint above is correct, the mention in the article is if not nonsense then badly mixed up. It should be 'where the bid price for a stock exceeded the ask price' which I'm going to correct. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.131.12.97 (talk) 20:09, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

This was a misunderstanding on my part. I read my own text wrong and didn't catch the mistake! Thanks for the correction. It is now good and makes sense.WynnQuon (talk) 19:49, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

2008 Crash

Do you think it's safe to say that the Dow's performance today would be considered a stock market crash? Richiekim (talk) 20:59, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Biggest one in history. Zazaban (talk) 22:44, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Only in point terms. It is not even close in percent terms. Dtaw2001 (talk) 22:56, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Still worth mentioning. Zazaban (talk) 02:59, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Just had a bigger one, I believe someone went down 9,000 points. Zazaban (talk) 06:07, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

The Dow is down nearly 20% in the last five trading days, 10% in the last two. This is a crash. Andywall (talk) 21:00, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

This is not a crash. A crash would be a one day drop of 20% or more - the 1987 event was an actual crash. Stop buying the media hype. LowLevelMason (talk) 00:06, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

A crash is not necessarily a one-day affair. There was no "one day drop of 20% or more" in 1929. We are experiencing a crash. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Inquisitor84 (talk • contribs) 20:46, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

I think it is safe to call this a crash now. Biggest one week drop in history. Dtaw2001 (talk) 17:35, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

I just added the missing citations for the Stock Market Crash of 2008 and added a few new ones. Dtaw2001 (talk) 18:09, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Article Lock

People have been trying to add information to the article about a 2008 stock market crash (which never happened). This will probably continue, so I propose that we temporarily lock this article to prevent it from happening in the future. History Wizard (talk) 14:31, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Most business media outlets are referring to it as a stock market crash. Also, it was the biggest decline in US history and in other parts of the world, some stock markets lost more than half their value. I also added that the IMF suggests that the entire financial system faces a "meltdown." The stock market crash happened, like it or not. Dtaw2001 (talk) 18:11, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Wall Street Journal: "the stock market is either in, or nearly in, a crash"

It's pretty severe right now in terms of points and percentages. Down +20% in a few days is crash. And it is world wide. Here are citations of a "crash" in Japan, Egypt and North American. Citations:

http://www.businessweek.com/investor/content/oct2008/pi2008109_360708.htm

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Global_Markets/Tokyo_stocks_suffer_worst_crash_in_two_decades/articleshow/3574082.cms

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2008/10/2008107191728630944.html

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122359593027021243.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

http://www.asahi.com/english/Herald-asahi/TKY200810100058.html

The best citation is from the Wall Street Journal article above:

"Thursday's decline -- the 11th largest in percentage terms in the Dow's history -- put the stock market either in, or nearly in, a crash."

--John Bahrain (talk) 15:24, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

This is not enough evidence to declare a stock market crash, your copying and pasting the same article from different sources. No actual economist has declared a crash, and a vast majority have said this is NOT a crash. Stop trying to fear monger. LowLevelMason (talk) 20:58, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Your personal opinion doesn't matter at all, no offense. Wikipedia relies on citations of credible sources. Here are some more sources on the matter:

(1) Forbes http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2008/10/10/ap5538025.html

"A 20 percent decline over a longer time is called a bear market. A bear market is a prolonged decline in prices for stocks, bonds, commodities, or all three. While there's debate about whether the decline of the seven trading days ending Thursday was a crash, there's no argument that we are in a bear market. The Dow Jones industrial average is nearly 42 percent lower than it was at its highest point last October; marking the largest decline since 1973-1974."

(2) The Times http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/markets/article4923227.ece

"The meltdown was being dubbed the Crash of 2008 and older traders were comparing it with Black Wednesday in 1987. The fall this week of 21 per cent was not as bad as the 28.3 per cent fall 21 years ago. But some traders were saying it was worse. “At least then it was a short, sharp, shock on one day. This has been relentless all week.”"

(3) The Motley Fool http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2008/10/10/whats-causing-this-crash.aspx

"Make no mistake about it, when we look back at what's happened over the past 10 days, we'll refer to it as the "Crash of 2008," putting it in the same category as the infamous plunges of 1929 and 1987."

--John Bahrain (talk) 21:04, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Your personal opinion of copying the same newspaper feeding off the same AP doesn't matter at all. A crash did not occur, keep putting it in and I will warn you for vandalism. 69.134.34.140 (talk) 04:42, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

It's really semantics whether what is happening/happened is a "crash" or not. I wonder whether this article really does justice to market corrections and also whether there may be better articles we don't know about on the same subject.--JohnnyB256 (talk) 01:32, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Stop with the NPOV fear mongering

As some wikipedia editors have decided to engage in fear and panic mongering on the non-existent crash of 2008, I'm going to leave it as a testament to all on how much wikipedia is wrong. However, every source you add with the media using hysteria and panic to call this a "crash" I will counter with one that says no crash exists. Stop the fear mongering. LowLevelMason (talk) 05:10, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

You can't be serious. The market is down 40% since it highs.--JohnnyB256 (talk) 12:04, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

LowLevelMason, you are only citing your own opinion. Please learn how Wikipedia works -- read WP:NOR and WP:RS. Also, Wikipedia itself isn't going to cause a widespread panic, we are just trying to follow reality. Also, do not accuse me of vandalism (as you did here [1]) when I use proper citation and you rely on only your own opinion, doing so is pretty ridiculous and is clearly out of line. I do totally accept that whether or not it is a crash right now is debatable, but it is clearly debatable and being discussed in reputable sources and thus that debate is clearly open for inclusion in Wikipedia as long as we present it accurately. --John Bahrain (talk) 12:55, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Please learn how wikipedia works. I am citing sources to confirm your fear mongering. You, on the other hand, are engaging in original research and NPOV. Stop it. If you continue I will continue to warn you for vandalism and report you. You need to review WP:RS, as the sourced cited are not only credible but far further than the fear mongering sources you are using. LowLevelMason (talk) 22:00, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Annoying Ipse Dixit Statement

Currently:

"Stock market crashes are in fact social phenomena where external economic events combine with crowd behavior and psychology in a positive feedback loop where selling by some market participants drives more market participants to sell."

Would that concept not in fact describe all stock market motion in general? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.36.149.61 (talk) 14:23, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

This entire article is a mess. The '29 section doesn't cite any sources and is written like a high school essay. The heave-ho over the latest market moves is really a side issue.--JohnnyB256 (talk) 00:50, 12 October 2008 (UTC)