Talk:Grif

I decided to finally get this page going and write stuff out, but I can tell it'll need some clean-up. Go ahead and go through it, pick out the things that need editing, I'll see if I can get an image. Dac 13:26, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Removed content

Having reviewed the content you removed and your rationale, I agree with it, with the exception of the following text which was removed:

"Although Sarge and Simmons regard Grif as unintelligent, the likelihood is that Grif simply has a bad habit of speaking or acting before thinking. In fact, Grif is capable of being more responsible than he lets on; when Simmons defected and began to wage a one-man war against his former teammates, Grif was the only member of Red Team who tried to actually solve the problem."

I left that in because it was a large point in his section on the List page. I am confused as to why this was excluded. Dac 05:57, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

"Likelihood" is one of those words that tips off original research. The whole point with Grif is that he's lazy and inept. (Paul Marino goes so far as to mention this as an example of good character design in his book on machinima). It's an interpretation, one that needs some sourced support. A primary source example isn't enough when you're giving an interpretation. — TKD::Talk 06:21, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Recent Changes

Lately, I've made some changes to this page. I had been removing the vulgarity, because I don't beleive that it is necessary to get the point across. Yet, it has been pointed out to me that it is needed to prove certain character traits. I still disagree, but that's fair enough and I won't fight anyone over it. However, on the section on Grif's intelegence, I added a a comment about how Church stated that Grif is smart, and yet that was removed. So, I put it back, because it is completely relevent, since a section on Grif's intellegence should contain things about how smart he is, which I put in. Now, in the 'relationships with other characters' part, it was stated that Tucker overheard Grif and Simmons talking, and he thinks that their in love. That, however is not true. Tucker overhears two members of the red team talking, but does not specifically state who, so that comment is irrelevent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.125.172.252 (talk • contribs)

The reason the comment with Tucker is left in is because it matches the relationship Grif and Simmons has, no others. Though you're right and it isn't explicitly stated that those are the two, Rooster Teeth were working to make it an obvious hint. Hence, we leave it in. BUT, as for the comment by Church, that was to mess with Simmons's head, nothing more. Church knew perfectly well what would annoy Simmons so he exploited him for his own amusement. There's nothing to suggest that Church really sees Grif as such. Dac 00:53, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Good point on Tucker's comment, at least until I have a chance to review the surrounding DVD audio commentary. I'm pretty sure somewhere along the way the "old married couple" comparison is made by Rooster Teeth. Not a bad call to remove it until it's proven, however, as these articles already have enough problems with original research. Not a big deal, I don't think, as we need some source than the plot/dialogue itself to eventually prove that comparison solidly. In a similar vein, though, it's been the consensus not to include Church's perception of Grif because one interpretation is that he's at least partially messing with Simmons' head at that point. It'd be original research for us to take a position on that, so we've just avoided it altogether. — TKD::Talk 00:55, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Also, please keep in mind the three-revert rule, which states that you cannot revert a page more than three times in any 24-hour period. It's much better to discuss these things first, rather than to edit war. — TKD::Talk 01:00, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Duly noted. For the record, I'm almost entirely certain that they do reference the married couple thing on the commentary. Dac 01:04, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

In the Season 2 DVD comentary, Matt Hullun specifically says, and I quote, "There's actually more than one tandem over there in red team that you could figure is the 'old married couple' that Tucker is talking about."

Thanks. I've been in the long process of actually taking notes from the commentaries and haven't gotten that far. — TKD::Talk 01:09, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

No problem. I just wanted to help clean up the page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.125.172.252 (talk • contribs)

That's fair, but we've just had that part in there since before the page split into eight, so when I made the Grif and Simmons pages I added that in. My mistake. Dac 01:20, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Not your fault. It's probably been there since I joined (December 2005). I've only cleaned up some of the worst of the original research and copyedited for some clarity. Articles on fiction have been getting more scrunity across the board lately, though. — TKD::Talk 01:28, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

That's cool. Oh, now about the whole Church said that Grif was smart' deal, are we just going to leave that out since we don't know what he meant? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.125.172.252 (talk • contribs)

Probably best to. If I could, I wouldn't mind stubbing some of these articles and starting over, but, given the scrutiny that articles on fiction have been given and the need to avoid articles that could never hope to be decent for lack of anything but plot summary, that probably wouldn't look too good. — TKD::Talk 01:28, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

I watched the Season Four commentary and I swear to god, it is near-impossible to get character info from those. I got about four notes. Are there any articles you know of that you haven't checked yet which might have info? It'd probably be easier. Dac 09:31, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Grif gets an ancillary mention in Paul Marino's book, The Art of Machinima. Other than that, there are bits here and there. I've probably read about 25 articles at one point or another, and they all blur together, unfortunately. Simmons and Grif are going to be weakest in terms of third-party mentions, though. — TKD::Talk 11:31, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

I know, but I was looking for general overall notes to use for any character and got very little. Dac 21:55, 24 October 2006 (UTC)