Talk:Golden Sun (video game)

Arbitrary header

Instead of merging why doesn't someone just add links from the Golden Sun page? Its a lot easier. -69.49.156.245

I guess so, great work on all of the Golden Sun pages by the way ^_^ You should create a Wikipedia account. AlexJohnc3 17:49, 13 July 2005 (EST)

Thank you very much. I must note that the Golden Sun page was made by one person and the linked articles by another so they're not all by the same person.

Wikipedia articles are *not* FAQs...this needs to be a description of the game, not every single thing that occurs in it.

There could be links to a FAQs (like gamefaqs.com or something) --Hobbes3k 00:23, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Ah, but is an encylopedia not a book that tells about all the details of a subject? Who will it hurt to have some details in it? Example: STAR WARS has a whole bunch of stuff in here.

I think that the section on the storyline is fine, but the "Places" section should either be removed completely or have content added to it (the link to "Vale" doesn't even work), the same problem (minus the faulty link) applies to the "Important Terms", and lastly, the section on the link feature is too long. If nobody else changes the article, I will work on it, but as for today, it's too late and I am too tired!  ;) --Thecosmos 03:46, July 24, 2005 (UTC)

Yeah well I was working on that but I had to go. Takes a while to put together the article.

I think this thing is getting too big. Do we really need bios of KRADEN and DORA?! Leave out the NPCs and Places, this isn't the place for that. All that's needed is a brief explanation of the game.

Yeah, I've been looking over all these character articles and some really aren't neccessary. Thunderbrand 03:56, August 27, 2005 (UTC)

Do we even need a characters section? I think it's explained well in the story, see below. But if you want to combine both GS games, I'm going to say no to that. They're two seperate titles, and it's much easier to give links. HereToHelp 12:44, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

cleanup

This article is a mess, its way too big and unorganised. Maybe it ought to be split into separate articles, one for each game? Masken 13:18, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing that. Thunderbrand 19:21, August 27, 2005 (UTC)

I moved the Lost Age info to a separate article but there are still leftovers (the text referring to "the series" instead of "the game" etc). Maybe it would be better to put all the general info about the series and the first game in separate articles, like what's been done with Final Fantasy and Mega Man? Masken 22:23, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Not really. This series only has 2 games. I don't see a need for a whole article on it quite yet. However, all the NPC's should be merged into one article, like Saturos, Menardi, etc, into an article called List of characters in Golden Sun or something similar. Thunderbrand 23:48, August 27, 2005 (UTC)

No one said anything, so I went ahead and merged all of them into one article. It seemed incredibly silly to keep all those other articles, which all of them had nearly the exact same section in each (the "Biography" section), so all of them would be stubs and probably stay that way. Thunderbrand 22:35, August 30, 2005 (UTC)

Does this page still need the "cleaned up" status? It seems well done IMO. -AlexJohnc3 06:25, 29 September 2005 (EST)

Okay then... well I'm going to remove the "needs to be cleaned up" status because no one has replied. -AlexJohnc3 16:49, 09 October 2005 (EST)

After looking at this page closely, here's how I think the page should be sectionalized: First the intro, then the gameplay, then the story (which I made a writeup for on my sandbox), and then the external links. The character list should be deleted on this page because of the List of Characters in Golden Sun page, and also because my story writeup is pretty comprehensive. I think it would tell you enough about each character up front on this page if my story writeup is implemented. The complete draft of my take on the Golden Sun page, including my new Story writeup, is in my personal sandbox, link accessible from my user page. Check it out sometime, because I think this version is actually going to become the version seen in the real Wikipedia. Erik the Appreciator 04:08, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

The Story

Okay, I just did a MASSIVE rewrite of "The Story" section. It was:

The protagonist, whose role the player assumes, is a Venus Adept named Isaac who goes on a quest to stop Saturos and Menardi, the villains, from lighting the 4 lighthouses: Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Mercury. If the lighthouses are lit, then he is told his world will be in great danger.

The first character to join Isaac's party is Garet, a Mars Adept and Isaac's childhood friend, who comes from the same village. Next to join is a Jupiter Adept named Ivan from the city of Kalay, and later a Mercury Adept named Mia, who is the guardian of the Mercury Lighthouse. The group of four travel together through many adventures and side quests that make up the game, before arriving towards the end of the game at Venus Lighthouse, where they have a fierce battle with Saturos and Menardi. This ends in the Venus Lighthouse being lit, and Saturos and Menardi being defeated. However, the storyline is left open, to leave way for the sequel.

Their antagonists are the aforementioned Saturos and Menardi, Adepts from the Mars tribe in the north, together with Alex, a member of the Mercury clan, and Felix, a Venus Adept and the brother of Jenna, a childhood friend of Isaac and Garet.

It is now:

The game begins with a playable prologue set three years before the main game begins, on a stormy night in the village Vale. Vale is home of the Adepts and built next to Mt. Aleph (named so after the first letter of many Semetic alphabets). Mt. Aleph houses the Sol Sanctum, the resting place of the Elemental Stars. These gems are the essence and quintessence of each element. However, the antagonists, Saturos and Menardi of the northern fire clan, tried to steal the Stars without success. In the process, they trigered the giant storm. And it is feared that that a giant boulder will fall from Mt. Aleph and destroy Vale.

However, the player finds this out later. They assume the role of the protagonist Isaac. He is a young Earth Adept from Vale. He then finds his friend Garet, a Mars Adept. Together they navigate the village, a problem exacerbated by falling rocks. They find that Felix, another young Earth Adept, is in a fast moving river hanging on to only a wooden post. Isaac and Garet are sent to find someone with enough Psynergy left to get Felix out of the river. They are able to find someone and get back, only in time to see the Mt. Aleph boulder tumble down and kill Felix, his parents, and Isaac's father.

Three years later, a stronger Isaac and Garet, along with Felix's sister, Jenna, and the scholar Kraden (who isn't an Adept) decide to explore the Sol Sanctum. It is them who discover the Elemental Stars. However, Saturos and Menardi follow them and kidnap Jenna and Kraden, along with three of the four Stars. In the process, another antagonist, Alex, is introduced. He is a Mercury Adept and possesses the ability to teleport from place to place. Additionaly, it is revealed that Felix did not die in the tragic storm but was instead saved by Saturos and Menardi. As the chamber collapses because the Stars can no longer hold it up, the antagonists flee with their captives. Issac and Garet are left with the Mas star, but unable to leave the chamber. Then, The Wise One, who gaurds the Elemental Stars, saves Isaac and Garet and tells them to recover the Stars. If they are used to light the four lighthouses, the power of Alchemy, sealed away many years before, will be set lose upon the world!

Isaac and Garet set out on a quest to prevent that from happening. They band together with a Jupiter Adept, Ivan. Together the three traverse the landscape to the northern Mercury Lighthouse, where they find a Mercury Adept, Mia. The four are unable to stop the lighthouse from being lit; nor stop the antagonists from escaping.

The protagonists continue to pursue thier foes, and wind up at the Venus Lighthouse. They learn that a girl named Sheba, who fell from the skies in the town of Lalivero, has been kidnapped by the same group of foes. Isaac and his party climb the Venus Lighthouse, where they at last defeat Saturos and Menardi (Alex is nowhere to be found). However, they are too late to prevent the Lighthouse from being lit. In the earthquake that followed, Sheba fell off the Lighthouse into the sea, Felix jumped after her, Jenna, Kraden, and Alex escape, and Isaac's party leaves the Lighthouse in a bittersweet mood.

The game is left open ended and is continued by its sequel.

Which do you like better? Mine can still be improved, though. HereToHelp 12:44, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

Here is a note. Kindly do not move the Chinese element comparison table again, thanks.

Hmm, well, I was going to implement my one writeup about the game's full, relevant story into this article, but I can tell that there's a lot of dispute going on for this subject. So, I'm exercising caution: I've posted a new write-up of the story on my personal sandbox on my user page, so I'm going to leave it up for about a week for everyone to see and maybe comment on. ALL feedback is appreciated, thanks. Erik the Appreciator 03:07, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

October 26 Format changes

Hey guys, I moved some stuff around on the page to make it a little less convoluted. No actual information was lost, just organized a little better. There's still work to be done, but if anyone has any objection to any of the moves, feel free to change it back. Also, this game doesn't need to be included in the "computer role-playing game" category since the the Golden Sun category itself is already considered one. Nall 16:30, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Not bad, but there's still no gameplay info, just some stuff on chinese mythology, for some reason... -82.7.125.142 21:18, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Europe and the EU

EU = European Union

• Iceland is a European country. So is Greece.
• Greece is an EU memberstate (along with 24 others). Iceland is not.

The European flag "is most commonly associated with the European Union..." (see article). The game was released in Europe.

Masken 15:24, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

What flag do you suggest using, then? For the moment, I'm keeping the current flag until a new one is decided; it keeps the layout consistent. And what about Australia? -82.7.125.142 19:04, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

October 29th Massive Overhaul

I just did a massive update of the page. I didn't really remove anything that was already there but I added everything important about the gameplay (that I could think of). There should be enough there for anyone to understand exactly how the game works, and I don't think I went into too much detail. I left up the attention tags because I want someone else to decide if the article is cleaned up and no longer confusing.

I split the elements section into two sections, because the commentary on them wasn't related to gameplay. The commentary has been moved to the bottom in a section called "Notes on Elements" (if you can think of a better name for that section, please change it).

Some guy 06:37, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

I think that the page is fine now and no longer needs editing, so we should leave it alone now unless Wikipedia complains.

2 Parts, not Games

This and Golden Sun: The Lost Age are one game, just split into 2 parts. The 2 games use the same battle system, follow the same storyline, and feature the same characters, meaning that alot of the information in Golden Sun: The Lost Age (much of which isn't even mentioned, meaning the article would need work anyway) would just be a copy of what is already in this article; there is nothing in that article that couldn't just be stated here.

So, I am proposing to merge these two articles into a more complete article, which would at least get rid of the {{confusing}} tags currently on both of these articles. If anyone would like to help or disagrees with me, please reply. -82.7.125.142 14:30, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Agree for stated reasons. Some guy 19:40, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Disagree- They are two games and should be treated as such.

I see your point, but when two games are similar in every way apart from storyline, and the devolpers say they're just 2 different parts to the same game, how should it be listed in Wikipedia? The present system obviously isn't working, since no one could think of what to write in the other article.

But I may be wrong, I'm new, and I'm really not sure what's supposed to happen under such circumstances. -82.7.125.142 18:29, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

As a possible solution, I've added to the Lost Age article a link to the gameplay section of this article. Discuss here. Some guy 00:54, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Agree These ARE two different games, but they link together to tell one story. Mewtation 20:49, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

WTF?

What is going on here, why have gobs of mostly unformatted and vastly overspecific text been added, and why was this page listed on Requests for Page Protection?

I have no intention of protecting this page at the moment, but you have succeeded in getting some attention to help resolve...whatever dispute it is that's going on.

Incidentally, any comment you make on this talk page, append ~~~~ to the end of it. This automatically adds your username (or IP if you don't have a username) and the current time to your comment. - A Man In Black (conspire | past ops) 18:36, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

I'm reverting to my last edit. There was absolutely no reason to replace my work with this poorly written POV crap. It looks like 80.225.1.131 vandalised my edit and removed most of my work and then someone else filled it in again. Some guy 18:48, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Actually, there have been quite a few people doing that. 62.64.211.210, 62.64.236.99, and 62.64.222.18 have all deleted information at some time. -82.7.125.142 19:18, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Well, in this particular situation, it was 80.225.1.131 (comparison). Also note, that same user requested the page be protected so that it could not be merged (and presumably also to lock his or her vandalism in place). Some guy 19:25, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Will you please leave the article ALONE and stop squabbling like spoilt bratty babies! Kyarorain

Would you please be civil? You've reverted to a poorly-written, overdetailed, near-incomprehensible version, for no reason I can understand. - A Man In Black (conspire | past ops) 21:14, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Well, you're not exactly being fair here. How do you know the person who wrote that wasn't trying really hard to make a nice article for everyone? You guys are so elitist, you make me want to be sick. What was so bad about it?

Kyarorain, please sign your comments. Anyway, I spent about an hour and a half writing the gameplay section of the article, and I worked very hard on it and did my best to make it encyclopedic. However, it was then vandalised and large sections of it were removed. You then filled it in again, possibly not knowing it was vandalised. However, your version was not as encyclopedic. You wrote your version in the second person. You included overly specific details such as what keys to press to do certain things. There are too many spaces between lines in your version. You included personal POV such as calling the Djinn "Pokemon style creatures" and catagorizing Psynergy into "black or white magic". I'm sorry if you feel we are being elitist, but our goal is to hold Wikipedia up to high standards of quality by having only the best articles. Some guy 17:00, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

I think that there should be an article for each game. One reason is that consolidating requires more agreement and there does not seem to be much agreement at this point. My real reason for wanting two articles is having separate articles makes it easier to avoid spoilers. I am in favor with a summary that links to the two articles? I hope that there is no objection to my creating a Golden Sun Password Repository. I only put a link in the article itself. Please give the Repository a chance. I think that the worst that will happen is that no one checks it out.

I am nominating that page for deletion. Wikipedia is not a password vault, game FAQ page, or whatever. Use appropriate gaming related websites for such matters.Some guy 17:00, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

So, Some guy is in favor of merging them, and Kyarorain is not? Would either of you care to explain your reasoning? - A Man In Black (conspire | past ops) 21:58, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

If you read the above section "2 parts, not 2 games" you'll see the merge proposal and reasoning behind it, and my statement that I agree for the reasons given in the proposal.Some guy 22:06, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

I saw that much, but I didn't necessarily want to have another user speaking for you unless you wanted it that way. - A Man In Black (conspire | past ops) 22:20, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Oh, well in that case thank you for your consideration. I appreciate it. Some guy 22:50, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

First of all, they are two different games, and they need two different places. The whole book 1 and 2 things are great, but they are very different, and some people might get confused if they are lumped together. Secondly, there is no good reason not to add lots of information. It won't hurt anyone.

Please sign your comments with three or four tildes (~~~~). Anyway, part of the reason the merge has been proposed is because gameplay between the games is exactly the same, while only the story is different, and the story is simply a direct continuation of the story in the first game. Secondly, there is plenty of good reason not to add lots of information. First, it uses up bandwidth, costing the people who host Wikipedia more money. Since you don't pay any of the bandwidth bill but you get full access to the service, you should keep this in consideration. Secondly, an overabundance of minor details may turn casual readers away from the article, because they don't care about all those details. Some guy 00:25, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Edit by Cyberskull

What the hell? We aren't allowed to talk about gameplay in the article now? Why do we even mention the game then? We might as well say "Golden Sun is a GBA game" and make that the whole article. Some guy 22:19, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Calm down, calm down. I think we should cover the gameplay, but let's not degenerate into "The player can walk around and talk to people" and so forth. Encyclopedic overview is the goal. - A Man In Black (conspire | past ops) 22:40, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

It wasn't written like that, and now a reader who hasn't played the game won't have any idea what the player can do. At least keep some of the sections. I'm sure some things could be simplified. However, he took out the most important details, the information on Djinn and Psynergy, which form the core of the gameplay. See, somebody already added back in Psynergy. The Djinn are even more important because they are what seperate Golden Sun from every other RPG. They completely change the gameplay. The Psynergy and Djinn sections must be kept in the article, or they will be rewritten time and time again, and not always as neutral or nonspecific as I wrote them. For example, the new information on Psynergy mentions specific powers, which is too much detail. All he's done is open the article back up to have the same things reinserted again. It's a terrible decision and I think at least some of the gameplay section should be reinserted.Some guy 02:34, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Go ahead and reinsert, then, just please don't revert to a preferred version. - A Man In Black (conspire | past ops) 02:45, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

I reinserted part of the Djinn section and added a few rewrites of previous sections, which are shorter and less specific. I think that the information given now is important while sufficiently nonspecific (I didn't think it was overly specific before though). Everything mentioned is necessary to understand the basics of the game. Please discuss before removing anything from the article.

I removed the notes on Psynergy added after the majority of the gameplay section was deleted, because they were too specific (specific powers mentioned). I did use a few elements of that part in my rewrite.Some guy 08:20, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Someone put in a part suggesting the game took place during the Roman Empire. I don't think it fit, so I removed it. It was also in the wrong place, someone stuck it right in the middle of the Chinese Taoism part. Weyard is a fictional world, it's clearly not Earth as we do not have four magical lighthouses, so it's not really a good idea to go around suggesting where Weyard is in Earth's history. However, I do think we could say something about places resembling actual places on Earth now and in the past... and also mention Pangaea and Gondwana. After all, Gondawana does sound like Gondowan. Anybody interested? Kyarorain 23:28, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

I think it's good that you removed it. Having speculation about things like that can make articles too long and adds unnecessary fluff, and again it's just speculation. I also never got the impression it resembled Earth during a certain time period.Some guy 03:31, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Forget the merge?

It's been forever and the merge hasn't happened and I don't care about it any more. Can we remove the tag yet?Some guy 07:30, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree, I mean, I think they're good as is.Dee man 45 09:50, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes, we're pretty much agreeing that the tag should be removed. However, User:A Man In Black put the tag back despite User:Petalholmes removing it. A Man In Black, we've reached a user consensus that the tag should be removed, so there is little point in putting it back there. Please do not put it back. Kyarorain 23:02, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Well, the person who removed it removed it for an invalid reason, based on their edit comment. They removed it based on their personal opinion, not because of this vote. As long as it is removed citing the vote here (which I guess has three for remove and none for keep) I don't see any reason not to remove it. Some guy 02:01, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

I only replaced it because it seemed like someone removed the tag without discussing it. Feel free to remove it citing this discussion, of course; I wouldn't have reverted if I was aware consensus was against a merge. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 04:08, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Gameplay cleanup

Someone please explain what part of the gameplay section needs cleanup? Some guy 01:28, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, yeah, that is something I'm not too clear about myself. The rewrites I've been giving have proceeded without a hitch when it comes to the story writeups, but refining this article's gameplay section to any better than what it is seems really hard. I'm going to need the feedback from others if I, or we, are to write it to the best state. Erik the Appreciator 19:01, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Tag Removal

I'm hoping that those tags at the top of each page can be taken down now, but as before, I won't do it myself because there's no consensus to do it. So basically, I'm making a consensus project where hopefully people will agree that they are eligible for removal, and if not then list some pointers as to things that still need to be done. Type (Agree) or (Disagree) if you think or don't think the pages are developed enough to warrant the removal of the tags. All responses appreciated! Erik the Appreciator 20:26, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Agree I don't think it's confusing at all. I read this a long time ago when I got the first game. (It took me FIVE YEARS TO BEAT IT... I suck at RPG's, yes I know. I became unmotivated. XD) The only thing I can see wanting is maybe the Djinni. Do we have a list of those? I'm only suggesting that because of the characters list. Somebody might want to add that sometime, but that's more optional than anything. t.z0n3

Agree It definitely is not confusing at all. Kyarorain 21:47, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Agree All this editing I've been doing to the two Golden Sun game pages aims to remove the tags from the tops of both pages; I believe the pages are now of absolute clarity when it comes to the important stuff (intro and gameplay), so if someone of higher stature doesn't decide to remove the tags soon (or notify me of issues that still remain), I'll consider removing the tags myself. (Mwahaha.) Erik the Appreciator 01:20, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

WikiBooks Golden Sun

Noticing your comment about a possible List of Djinn, t.z0n3, I believe that anything that deals with a gameplay element such as that should go into the Wikibook about Golden Sun, link accessible from the main Golden Sun page. After all, Wikibooks go in detail about statistics and the like, as far as I can tell, so a List of Djinn should definitely fit there. Any other ideas about what can go in there? Erik the Appreciator 17:59, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Certainly. This wikibooks thing is basically a big huge guide to everything about a game, right? If you really wanted to go in depth, stick in the classes for each character based on djinni, the psynergy used by various classes, the entire psynergy list, and, heck, while you're at it, why not put in all the bosses, locations, and all that good stuff? XD Of course, not being at technical person, I can't think this all off the top of my head, nor do I know how to edit the wikibooks, but you can find all that information at Golden Sun Realm. (See the Golden Sun page) t.z0n3

Uh-oh, it appears that page has been removed sometime: It's all blank. Does this mean that link should be removed? Erik the Appreciator 02:42, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Is there no way to restore the original page? If not, then I suppose the link should be removed. Kyarorain 09:46, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

What are you talking about? It's still there. http://goldensun.rpgplanet.gamespy.com/index.php t.z0n3

Actually, we were talking about the Wikibooks article itself. It was erased off Wikibooks for some reason. Kyarorain 14:27, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

OH. WELL then... -_-' T.z0n3 12:36, 6 October 2006 (UTC) ( I figured out how to sign my name right now... ^^)

GA push

Hey mates, I'm busy formatting references to cite web format, but this page is almost ready for GA-time, as far as I'm concerned; I think all it needs is copyediting, expansion of the reception and dev sections, and maybe a look through gameplay to make sure its crystal clear. Dåvid Fuchs (talk / contribs) 23:59, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

A commendably noble effort, no doubt about it. I've been thinking of promoting a GA push myself for a while now. You have my praise. :) Also, if you think any of the game images can be improved with replacement screenshots (I used an emulator to create the images on this page), be sure to bring it up here because I can take care of imagery quite easily.Erik Jensen ^{(Appreciate|Donate)} 06:40, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

The screenshots seem fine (I certainly can't add any as the GBA emulator for OS X doesn't run on 10.3.9, which I have), but maybe we should think about swapping in some that walking around on the world? One for battle and the two for djinn I think are important, and certainly the story ones, but maybe we culd switch one. Its your call. Dåvid Fuchs (talk / contribs) 15:47, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

OK, so I have replaced every last one of the screenshot images with PNG format images (because JPEG is apparently inferior for Wikipedia's purposes). The image for Mercury Lighthouse is now replaced with an overworld image, which is probably far more practical for illustrating the general game, and the Venus Lighthouse image has been changed to something far more active-looking. So now I'm going to look through the text of the Synopsis section once more and try to remove and rewrite out any odd redundancies that may occur between the plot, the world, and the character subsections. Even so, I think it wouldn't be too early now to start the Good Article effort for the page. Erik Jensen ^{(Appreciate|Donate)} 02:49, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I was lazy and nominated the article on WP:GAC. A) this wont get reviewed immediately,methinks, so there's still time to fix things, and B) it'll make me check through it. I'll do a thorough scan tonight for grammer, etc. Good work on the images, by the way. Once this article is up, it should be no issue to get Lost Age up to snuff too- and then I'm turning my attention to Pokemon Yellow :P Cheers, Dåvid Fuchs (talk / frog blast the vent core!) 16:27, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Yea, actually, I was crafting a revised Synopsis section that properly integrates the setting and character sections with the plot section. I'm using Final Fantasy X as a model, and I think there should be more in the settings and character sections and less in the plot sections. I'll post a revamped synopsis section as soon as I can. Erik Jensen ^{(Appreciate|Donate)} 21:18, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Okay, so now I did that. Now I feel we're more or less ready to begin the GA process. The model I'm using for this page is the Featured Article Final Fantasy X, and I notice it has an in-game world map screen in its setting section of spira. So does anyone think I should add one more screenshot of the game's overworld map into this article's Settings section? I don't think I should try that right now, as hotshot users often think less is more when it comes to images.Erik Jensen ^{(Appreciate|Donate)} 00:41, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree that we probably have enough images. And they are all tagged for fair use, so I think we're good in that respect. Dåvid Fuchs (talk / frog blast the vent core!) 01:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

On Hold

I have some major suggestions before it meets GA status:

• "And yes, that includes Final Fantasy." That's more of a second person usage, which should never been in any article.
• "Though the English version of Golden Sun does not have a subtitle, the Japanese version does: Hirakareshi Fūin (開かれし封印, Hirakareshi Fūin?) (commonly translated as "The Broken Seal" or the "The Opened Seal"." having this separate in the LEAD section is not very wise.
• "Whereas most other RPGs limit the usage of their forms of magic to battles as offensive and defensive measures, Psynergy spells can be used both for battle and for solving puzzles in the game’s locales." Citation needed.
• Don't use numerical values for numbers less than 10 (zero instead of 0)
• "By far the most important element in Golden Sun which differentiates it from other RPGs is the collecting and manipulation of magical creatures called Djinn." Opinion.
• All these little Djinn sections need to be combined into one.
• Wikilinks are need in these small Djinn sections also.
• "Weyard is revealed by the game's sequel, Golden Sun: The Lost Age, to be a setting modeled off the Flat Earth ideal of the world; it is a flat, vaguely circular plane whose oceans perpetually spill off the edge of the world's entire perimeter into an endless abyss." Citation needed.
• "The characters of Golden Sun were designed and illustrated by Shin Yamanouchi of Camelot Software Planning." Citation and expand.
• The whole plot is under citated, under wikilinked, and reads to much like a guide.
• Move some of the images to the left, all of them are on the right and make the article feel very bare.

I hope this helps the article improve. When these are done, I will pass it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by William Pembroke (talk • contribs)

Forgot to sign Pembroke 23:13, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I'm on it. Dåvid Fuchs ^{(talk / frog blast the vent core!)} 23:08, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, interesting. Some of these aspects I personally thought would only apply in an attempt to get this to Featured Article status, but whatever. For the plot, since I have the game emulated on my computer and have bookmarked pretty much every major scene through save states, I can provide any additional quote sources necessary. Be sure to say whichever particular points in the plot section need to be sourced, and I'll whip them right up. :) Erik Jensen ^{(Appreciate|Donate)} 03:15, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Mr.Fuchs (I assume that's pronounced "Fooks", rather than a certain expletive ^_^), I assume you're doing the "base rewriting" of the page and finding the sources for things like reviews and game-stuff provided by the manual, but you can leave all sources based on in-game text to me by using the tag wherever it needs a source that comes from the game and not from the internet. You can also leave the proofreading to me if you'd like when you're done. Erik Jensen ^{(Appreciate|Donate)} 03:27, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

It's pronounced "Fewks" (rhymes with pukes) in English or is closer to FUks (long u) in German, but that's besides the point. As for the considerations above. The whole plot is under citated, under wikilinked, and reads to much like a guide. Under wikilinked is pretty much unsolvable, as most of the terms are covered in the rest of the article and do not have pages of their own. Do you want me to wikilink "lighthouse"? As for its length, it's a bitch of a game, and we cut it down a lot. I'm not sure what else needs to be cited. Dåvid Fuchs ^{(talk / frog blast the vent core!)} 16:22, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I never thought Golden Sun 1 was really considered a long game among RPGs. Looking at the plot, I do see certain things that are easy for me to add additional quote sources for, like the part about Ivan joining to unravel his destiny, so I'll see how many I can add. Erik Jensen ^{(Appreciate|Donate)} 19:58, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Progress Update

So now I'm checking off and commenting on each item done thus far, and I've put my sig on each one so that others can comment on each one individually:

• "And yes, that includes Final Fantasy." That's more of a second person usage, which should never been in any article. Removed by David Fuchs.
• "Though the English version of Golden Sun does not have a subtitle, the Japanese version does: Hirakareshi Fūin (開かれし封印, Hirakareshi Fūin?) (commonly translated as "The Broken Seal" or the "The Opened Seal"." having this separate in the LEAD section is not very wise. David Fuchs removed it because it is probably a trivial note to begin with.
• "Whereas most other RPGs limit the usage of their forms of magic to battles as offensive and defensive measures, Psynergy spells can be used both for battle and for solving puzzles in the game’s locales." Citation needed. The manual states and explains this and it has been cited by David. I think that should be sufficient...
• Don't use numerical values for numbers less than 10 (zero instead of 0) Both he and I have fixed this.
• "By far the most important element in Golden Sun which differentiates it from other RPGs is the collecting and manipulation of magical creatures called Djinn." Opinion. This might be tricky to solve if it hasn't been solved already; right now it's "one of the most important" instead of "by far the most important", and with my luck it's probably not cutting it. This is the sort of thing one finds out by reading the game's manual (which I do not have, incidentally), and it may or may not say outright how important it is even though when playing the game it's very important, practically central to the game.
• All these little Djinn sections need to be combined into one. Done by David.
• Wikilinks are need in these small Djinn sections also. This is more or less improved, I think.
• "Weyard is revealed by the game's sequel, Golden Sun: The Lost Age, to be a setting modeled off the Flat Earth idea of the world; it is a flat, vaguely circular plane whose oceans perpetually spill off the edge of the world's entire perimeter into an endless abyss." Citation needed. This seems to be explained through several bits and pieces of official text concerning the second game, so this can be taken care of through several concurrent citations of that game's text. Done.
• "The characters of Golden Sun were designed and illustrated by Shin Yamanouchi of Camelot Software Planning." Citation and expand. For the citation part, Shin is part of the official game credits, and I have him listed in the game article infobox as one of the "designers" like how Tetsuya Nomura is a character designer and artist credited in the designers cell in Final Fantasy pages' infoboxes. If there's a special way to cite someone credited, perhaps David can do it. As for expanding it, that could be tricky; there's probably no info about this obscure artist on the internet whatsoever, but I never really checked.
• The whole plot is under citated, under wikilinked, and reads to much like a guide. A little dismaying for a suggestion, I'll admit, but I believe the plot section has had a lot of necessary stuff done with it since then. I added a LOT of new in-game-quote citations, maybe more than necessary, provided such a thing can exist, of course. It may be tricky to cite the setting and character sections, however, provided that's necessary. And I honestly don't see anything game-guidish about the plot section at all, personally.
• Move some of the images to the left, all of them are on the right and make the article feel very bare. David shifted a couple of them. Hopefully this takes care of that.

As a side note, this may sound somewhat like a "Hey, what's the big idea" comment from me, but I look at the Featured Article The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker and see that it has less citations than what this GA-hopeful article currently has. Is there a special reason for that? Erik Jensen ^{(Appreciate|Donate)} 05:45, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I respect your opinions and like how this article has been improved. I shall pass it. Congratulations. Pembroke 21:38, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Now there's something to lift many spirits! Many thanks. I'll consider continuing to look into the remaining items on the list. Erik Jensen ^{(Appreciate|Donate)} 04:38, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Can the original Japanese title be put on the page again? Because it's stupid to mention the supposed japanese title if it's merely a translation of the english title rather than the real original one. It's not mere trivia. The attention it initially got is, but not the info itself.DreamingLady 22:07, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorry I didn't notice this earlier... I certainly think the Japanese title should be put on there. Seems like it's back on there already. Erik Jensen ^{(Appreciate|Laugh At)} 23:27, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

I just want to point out WP:NOT#INFO, WP:NOT#GUIDE, and WP:CVG/GL#Scope_of_information. I think the story section is way too long. It needs trimming down, I'd say to maybe three or four paragraphs at most, which cover the more important plot developments, and give a general spiel on what you as the player are doing in the game without covering the history hundreds of years in the past. It shouldn't spell out the game's whole plot, just enough so that reads can see where it is going, and enough information to distinguish it if it's not your classic good-vs-evil plot. Ong elvin 14:04, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

FA Push?

I haven't really been active as much this month on Wikipedia, but I was thinking maybe we should try and get this up to FA before we work on the sequel. I men, it might need a few more sources in gameplay, which is not a problem... authors and dates needed for reviews, etc, not a problem... and then its just prose and grammar. Thoughts? Dåvid Fuchs ^{(talk / frog blast the vent core!)} 23:22, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Sounds easy, but I'm pretty sure the attempt will be quite grueling and long. But I'd be into it. Erik Jensen ^{(Appreciate|Laugh At)} 23:27, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Long? After what I went through with Halo 2, I think it would be a relative walk in the park. I've started on the above now. Once I dig out my GS manual, we can cite the gameplay sections with individual page numbers (they like that). Dåvid Fuchs ^{(talk / frog blast the vent core!)} 23:29, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

If you think it'll be easy, that's great. I don't have the GS manual though, my game cart was bought used. Erik Jensen ^{(Appreciate|Laugh At)} 23:39, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

I'll help out where I can. I don't think I have the manuel anymore, but I'll help out with the prose. I absolutely love this game and it would be great to see this article reach FA status. -- Scorpion 23:53, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Good luck, this seems like a great idea! --Alexc3 ^(talk) 22:00, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

So, where should we start on the road to FA? Just basic copyediting, or is there anything that really needs expanding? -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 05:55, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, now that my semester is over, I'm willing to investigate what this article might need to attain Featured Article status. Somebody needs to provide a list of sorts. Erik Jensen ^{(Appreciate|Laugh At)} 16:53, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Unique Aspects?

Not really --AnYoNe! 21:43, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh. Well. If you feel that's awkwardly worded, feel free to change it if it hasn't already. :) Erik Jensen ^{(Appreciate|Laugh At)} 16:53, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

FAC?

I think this article has improved to the level where it can stand up for featured article candidacy. Thoughts? David Fuchs ^(talk) 17:08, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

(This text is just a repost of what I added to the On Hold section.) I just want to point out WP:NOT#INFO, WP:NOT#GUIDE, and WP:CVG/GL#Scope_of_information. I think the story section is way too long. It needs trimming down, I'd say to maybe three or four paragraphs at most, which cover the more important plot developments, and give a general spiel on what you as the player are doing in the game without covering the history hundreds of years in the past. It shouldn't spell out the game's whole plot, just enough so that reads can see where it is going, and enough information to distinguish it if it's not your classic good-vs-evil plot. Ong elvin 14:06, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Just want to say that I'm not opposed to spelling out the whole plot per se, just that as it is it's way too long compared to some of the other VG Features. By comparison, they dedicate about a third as much writing to it. Golden Sun may well have a long plot, but it still should be able to cover the really important plot points. My opinion is that a VG article plot synopsis should never take more than three or four paragraphs, no matter how developed and extensive the game's plot is. Ong elvin 14:11, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, the VG Feature Final Fantasy X's overall plot section is practically even longer than what's currently in here, and I'd only use that as my defense for keeping the plot section as it is because everything in the FFX page seems to be established as Featured Quality content. While I could probably make the plot section here even shorter, it's really hard to keep doing the game's plot justice while making it shorter because it's only the first part of a story that comes full circle in the Golden Sun: The Lost Age continuation, and a lot of important plot elements are carried over between games in such a way that players of the second game who never played the first start off totally lost in a dense plot in progress. Erik Jensen ^{(Appreciate|Laugh At)} 20:00, 3 September 2007 (UTC)