Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/United Airlines Flight 93
United Airlines Flight 93
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Self-nomination. Seeing how poorly I performed in the 9/11 article FA review, I got a second wind to finish this article. Anyway, I have more than doubled the references, chosen reliable sources over blogs, and rewritten the article in fine detail. I am open to your criticism. -- VegitaU (talk) 23:26, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
Comment - I believe that quotations inside blockquotes, or pull quotes in your case, are not supposed to have quotation marks.
Also, Load factor goes to a disambig page. —Mattisse (Talk) 17:37, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
- Response I've delinked load factor because the article I wanted to link to is uncreated. I've always seen quotes in the quote boxes with quote marks. El Greco, Flight 11, and Flight 77 are all FA with that style. -- 17:57, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
Comments
Current ref 19 (Pauley, Jane "No greater love") is lacking a publisher
- Otherwise sources looked good, links checked out with the link checking tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 18:08, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
Comment - I've read a few sections of the article, and it seems really great, overall. I understood the meaning of the words perfectly, but as I am very bad at catching minor errors, like Ealdgyth did above, I'll wait to see what happens later before supporting or opposing. However, I do have a minor issue about {{reflist}} in which I've left a note on the article's talk page. --haha169 (talk) 18:16, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
Comment - Would you mind if the dates that are not full dates are delinked? The trend in FAC is to link as little as possible, and linking to specific days or years that are not full dates for no apparent reason is discouraged. —Mattisse (Talk) 19:03, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
- Reply: No problem. I've gone over and delinked every partial date I could find. -- VegitaU (talk) 00:54, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
- This is incorrect. Looking at what you've done, VegitaU, there seems to be a misunderstanding of Wikipedia:MOSDATE#Date autoformatting. If you use autoformatting (date linking), full dates, as well as month-day combos need to be linked so user date preferences will display consistently. Dates need to display consistently, both for logged in user with date preferences set, and logged out users, in raw format. Delinking only month-day combos is not correct, because they display according to user preferences, just as full dates do (for example, 27 June or June 27 and 27 June 1949 or June 27, 1949). What you've done now will display dates inconsistently, depending on user preferences, since some month-day combos are linked and some are not. For example, depending on a user's preferences, they could see September 11 in one case, and 11 September 2001 in another, because you've delinked them only partially. If you delink dates, you don't just delink dates that are not full dates; all full dates and month-day combos (not month year or solo years) should be linked or not linked consistently throughout the article, and the raw format should also be consistent. So, you have several issues now. You just delinked (incorrectly) month-day combos, without delinking month day, year combos, while the dates in the text are Month day, year format, but the dates in the citations are year-mm-dd format. To get back to a closer version of correct, you could revert the date delinking you just did. I'm not asking editors to fix the citation date inconsistency, since that's an issue with the cite templates, but you do need to link correctly and consistently within the article. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 06:46, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
- I started a thread at MOSDATE, where you can followup with further questions, so it won't take over the FAC page. This new guideline is confusing people. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 07:09, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
- Okay. Done. -- VegitaU (talk)
- This is incorrect. Looking at what you've done, VegitaU, there seems to be a misunderstanding of Wikipedia:MOSDATE#Date autoformatting. If you use autoformatting (date linking), full dates, as well as month-day combos need to be linked so user date preferences will display consistently. Dates need to display consistently, both for logged in user with date preferences set, and logged out users, in raw format. Delinking only month-day combos is not correct, because they display according to user preferences, just as full dates do (for example, 27 June or June 27 and 27 June 1949 or June 27, 1949). What you've done now will display dates inconsistently, depending on user preferences, since some month-day combos are linked and some are not. For example, depending on a user's preferences, they could see September 11 in one case, and 11 September 2001 in another, because you've delinked them only partially. If you delink dates, you don't just delink dates that are not full dates; all full dates and month-day combos (not month year or solo years) should be linked or not linked consistently throughout the article, and the raw format should also be consistent. So, you have several issues now. You just delinked (incorrectly) month-day combos, without delinking month day, year combos, while the dates in the text are Month day, year format, but the dates in the citations are year-mm-dd format. To get back to a closer version of correct, you could revert the date delinking you just did. I'm not asking editors to fix the citation date inconsistency, since that's an issue with the cite templates, but you do need to link correctly and consistently within the article. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 06:46, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
Comment - This article is very compelling. You have outlined the sequence of events very well. Some of the direct quotes seem off, but I am assuming you have transcribed them correctly. An excellent article. I am sure to support. —Mattisse (Talk) 01:25, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
- It's a good article. I've cleansed it of date autoformatting—both full month/day/years and month days. It is highly appropriate that US formatting be used throughout: all English-speakers are used to hearing and reading September 11, 2001, and "9/11" as an iconic item. Date preferences should not be allowed to reverse this. It's still rather densely linked; I removed some trivials such as "cigarette lighter". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tony1 (talk • contribs) 16:54, July 12, 2008 (UTC)
- Tony, thanks for finishing the dates, but we still need to discuss (at the MOSDATE thread preferably) how to handle delinking when the citation templates aren't consistent. The article now has delinked dates in Month day, year format, while the citations have linked dates in the ISO format. As I explained at the MOSDATE thread, since that is a cite template issue, I'm inclined to overlook it for now, as long as the article and the citations are each separately consistent. Followup there, but on this FAC, we need to be sure there's no misunderstanding about partial linking/delinking within the article, which was the status last night. (VegitaU, since this is all somewhat off topic because of the guideline change, I'll move all of this delinking talk to the talk page later.) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:01, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
- Just some suggestions to reduce the linking per User:Tony1 above. Perhaps Al-Qaeda could be delinked right before Osama bin Laden since it is linked in the Osama article anyway. Maybe you could pipe the names of some Florida towns, since Florida is linked on its own, e.g. Miami, Orlando. Also, does linking GTE right before airphones contribute anything? —Mattisse (Talk) 18:23, 12 July 2008 (UTC)