This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Ogress(talk | contribs) at 03:38, 9 October 2008(More archiving stuff.). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.
Revision as of 03:38, 9 October 2008 by Ogress(talk | contribs)(More archiving stuff.)
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Iran, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles related to Iran on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please join the project where you can contribute to the discussions and help with our open tasks.IranWikipedia:WikiProject IranTemplate:WikiProject IranIran articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Arab world, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Arab world on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Arab worldWikipedia:WikiProject Arab worldTemplate:WikiProject Arab worldArab world articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Iraq, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Iraq on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IraqWikipedia:WikiProject IraqTemplate:WikiProject IraqIraq articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Islam, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Islam-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IslamWikipedia:WikiProject IslamTemplate:WikiProject IslamIslam-related articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Chemistry, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of chemistry on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChemistryWikipedia:WikiProject ChemistryTemplate:WikiProject ChemistryChemistry articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Astrology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Astrology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AstrologyWikipedia:WikiProject AstrologyTemplate:WikiProject Astrologyastrology articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Middle Ages, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Middle Ages on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Middle AgesWikipedia:WikiProject Middle AgesTemplate:WikiProject Middle AgesMiddle Ages articles
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Jabir ibn Hayyan article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
It would be nice if all the effort focused on trying to determine which part of the middle east he was from could be directed toward finding references for the claims made in the article about the techniques he developed. There are very few citations (sometimes none) to back up claims of his discoveries. Jeremiah (talk·cont) 15:04, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. 17 references to back up that he was an Arab seems a bit like overkill to me. -kotra (talk) 23:21, 29 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
How many would you prefer, then? Do you understand the concept of reference counting to determine which of two possibilities is better-supported? You can't provide just one reference for that, since none of the references themselves do the counting. There is a meaningful point here that cannot be demonstrated any other way: a) Geber is considered by overwhelming consensus to be Arab, however b) there is still significant literature suggesting he was Persian. In what universe are less references better and how do I get a bus pass to go there? --70.131.51.228 (talk) 00:12, 8 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You know well wikipedia doesnt lie on the truth but on the sources. You Arabs know well he was Persian (He was born in Tus in north east of Iran. See the map, how far is it from arabs?)... He was most probably Persian... You Arabs think that whoever is Muslim must be Arab, or whoever has an Islamic name, must be arab, or whoever knows arabic must be arab!!!! I am a muslim, my name is Mohammad, and I know arabic(because I learned to understand quran) but I am IRANIAN. The same thing was there for Geber... Actually its not that important for me, you can think as your wish, you can change the facts, take all Iranian scientists for arabs, call Persian gulf as a-r.a-b.i-a.n gulf... But know one thing, the truth never dies. --61.8.140.20 (talk) 02:40, 11 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I don't care whether or not he was an Arab, a Persian, or both. My point is just that when there are more than 5 or 6 references, new ones cease to have any useful purpose. When it comes to references, we should focus on quality, not quantity. Also, using a large number of references to prove a point (here that he is "overwhelmingly" considered to be Arab), is original research, even if it uses outside sources to come to that conclusion. None of the references actually claim that "most sources state that he was an Arab" (correct me if I'm wrong), so it is original research to take a bunch of references that say one thing and from that conclude that "most" say it. I could probably find 20 references that state the Holocaust didn't exist, and so conclude that "most" say that too, since there might be only 10 references in a Holocaust article that say it does. But that would of course be incorrect.
If there aren't any reliable sources that say how common either view is (Arab or Persian), the best we can do is say "Some sources describe him as an Arab, whereas others describe him as a Persian." -kotra (talk) 17:10, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
i totally agree with Kotra on his ethnicity, he was most definately persian, and most sources do not list him as arab. Arabs just come on wikiepdia and claim somehow every muslim must be arab, when it is quiet clear the scientific achievements during the middle ages were made by persians, jews, and Zoroastrianist's who converted to islam. The amounrt of nationalism and lieing and distorting makes me sick personally.Tomasz Prochownik (talk) 00:29, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I never commented on his ethnicity. My comment was just that there are too many references, and that "counting" references to make a point is original research. -kotra (talk) 23:53, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
At most you should have 3 sources. The rest can be left as notes or amalgamated in the 3 sources. LOTRrules (talk) 20:51, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, though I don't know how exactly they should be left as notes or amalgamated. -kotra (talk) 23:53, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Geber is not an Arab!
Please stop this stupid claims! Are you trying to prove that Paris is not in France?!
Someone from Khorasan can be Pashto/Dari/Afghani or ... but definitely not an Arab. There is no doubt that Geber was a Persian. This argument is getting very boring. I can understand that it is very frustrating to find Arab (real Arab, not those who know Arabic) scientist (some one from Saudi Arabia, do you know any?!), but it is obvious for the world that Razi/Ibn Sina/Jaber/Kharazmi etc are all Persian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.28.135.251 (talk) 23:08, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The article only says that "some sources state that he was an Arab". The article itself does not actually claim that he was an Arab. -kotra (talk) 23:26, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Seriously?! Persian chauvinism is really funny...please look up al-Azd tribe; Jabir ibn Hayyan was a member of that prominent Arab family. He was in no way persian, no matter how many obscure, silly web sites you put here. If he were alive, he'd probably laugh at your ignorance, too. Keep going, though. I'm sure it adds excitement to your lives sleeping at night thinking persians dominate the world...MB (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 20:08, 8 October 2008 (UTC).[reply]
Is your comment directed to me or to 211.28.135.251? If it was directed to me, I want to clarify that I'm not saying Geber was Arab OR Persian. I honestly don't have an opinion either way. I was just saying that the article doesn't actually claim he was Arab (or Persian, for that matter); it only says that some sources claim he was one or the other. I agree that there are too many citations, though, for both statements. But whoever your comment was directed to, please do not make personal attacks against other editors. -kotra (talk) 21:15, 8 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
author ?
could someone help this article. It needs to cite which book the discoveries come from. Or if they are credited to Jabir by others. Krause mentions 3000 works credited to Jabir, most of them written in the 9th and 10th cen..The mineral acids are credited to Pseudo Gerber's books.J8079s (talk) 01:30, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
.png)
