Talk:List of Naruto antagonists

Madara, again

"His plans foiled once again, he returned to Konoha in secret, training Itachi Uchiha and later assisted him in slaughtering all of the remaining Uchiha except for Sasuke Uchiha". Is there a source for this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.233.246.88 (talk) 07:53, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

No. Madara said Itachi sought him out and asked him for his help in killing the rest of the Uchiha. 142.26.133.248 (talk) 15:00, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Not true. It said Itachi was the only one to notice Madara some how, and Madara holding a grudge on the Uchiha and the Village at the time (and probably now still) made a deal with Itachi which Itachi seemed to offer because the pact was that in assisting Itachi the massacre of the Uchiha, Madara was not allowed to lay a hand on the Leaf village in the Uchiha's absence becaused it weakened the village, which Madara could have used as an opening. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.181.216.154 (talk) 05:39, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Mizukage? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.197.85.26 (talk) 02:23, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Madara

how come it says that madara did attack the village with the nine-tails?

it has not been comfirmed if it is true. so why is that put on there?

Huh? That's unusually verbalized, but I'll try to give a satisfactional answer... Itachi stated in chapter 385 that Madara tamed and controlled the Kyuubi, in the same chapter, Sasuke revealed that the secret message in the Nakano shrine about the Sharingan's ultimate purpose was to controll the Kyuubi, and so we can only assume that that is what Madara did... But while still on the subject of Madara, I'd like to change the statement of him being immortal on the grounds that no such statement was made in the original raw version of the manga, only in the fanmade translation. 217.208.24.113 (talk) 14:35, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Is it a case of a completely fanmade concept, or is "immortal" not the most accurate of words? ~SnapperTo 18:50, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

In chapter 385, Itachi calls Madara a 不滅の男 (fumetsu no otoko). Fumetsu means immortal, undying, or indestructible. JadziaLover (talk) 21:16, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Then, aside from perhaps changing it to "Itachi states that Madara is an immortal", the article is fine. ~SnapperTo 21:50, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Speaking (or rather typing, whatever) of Madara, I'd like to know where it was stated that Madara returned "at only a fraction of his former strength". Sounds like OR to me... 217.208.24.113 (talk) 12:58, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

People assumed that from Hisshouburaiken's translation: "Madara is a pathetic shell of his former self". It's worth noting that none of the other translators said this. He was called a loser or failure but never stated to be weaker. Is it just me, but whenever there's a translation issue, it always seems to be Hisshou? The Tobi/Madara fiasco in chapter 364, "invincible" when there's no mention, and now this pathetic shell stuff. He adds or omits words at his convenience I think. Wikiuser6 (talk) 16:46, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

No, he just doesn't translate very literally and he tries to translate as quickly as he can. This causes a number of misinterpretations and mistakes by both him and his readers. He usually is quite quick to correct them if he sees fit, though.

Two other examples of his misinterpretations would be him saying the Four-tails uses many different elemental fusions, while it really said the Yonbi uses a new element called Yōton (Melting Element). He also said Madara was considered the strongest shinobi, while it should have been the Senju clan that was called the strongest

No matter what, HisshouBuraiKen is still a very good translator. Just one that prefers easy readability over being literal and speed over accuracy. JadziaLover (talk) 23:46, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Is "a fraction of his former strength" incorrect then? ~SnapperTo 23:55, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Itachi says 「今のマダラは負け犬だ…」, which literally means "The present Madara is a loser". Even more literally, it would be "The Madara of today is a defeated dog". 負け犬 is a common expression for "loser," or "underdog" and is most commenly used to refer to the person who is most likely to lose a competition. In this case, the competition between Madara and Itachi, over who will reach the true height of the Uchiha's power.

Personally, I don't think it really says anything about Madara's strength, but more about Madara's state of mind and how Itachi thinks himself superior over Madara.

So yes, "a fraction of his former self" would be incorrect, in my eyes. JadziaLover (talk) 00:28, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Why is the a link to Tobi under Madara's entry? This hasn't been confirmed. Even if Tobi says he is Madara, it doesn't mean that its true. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.197.252.253 (talk) 23:07, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

What was the new eye technique that Itachi mentions Madara acquired after taking his brother's eyes?

There really needs to be emphasis in Madara's section that he had the Permanent Mangekyo Sharingan, the Kyuubi at his disposal and a Space/Time jutsu greater than the Fourth's, yet he still lost against the Shodai Hokage. AS it stands, it just glosses over the facts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.36.16.94 (talk) 01:09, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Chapter 399 says Madara did have control over the Kyuubi, but that was during the battle with the First Hokage. The attack that began the series (where the Kyuubi was sealed inside Naruto) was just a "natural" disaster, or so Madara says... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.26.133.248 (talk) 15:04, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

And at the same time, Jiraiya and Itachi would have us believe that Madara actually did summon it 16 years before. So it's impossible to know who to believe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.99.169.251 (talk) 16:29, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Madara said his brother willingly gave him his eyes, and that he did everything he did in order to protect the Uchiha, not out of personal lust for power. He only went psycho when the Uchiha turned against him and sided with the Hokage. That kinda makes him an antihero, like Itachi, instead of a villain, doesn't it?

Yeah Madara's really looking a lot more protagonistic, but we cannot forget he's after the main character (Naruto's) life, making him an antagonist (still), regardless of reasoning. Honestly, he's the villain in the current storyline but the hero in the past storylines. I motion his article be moved into the List of minor Naruto characters where it's more appropriate. AnimeNikkaJamal (talk) 00:24, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

It seems more like he's trying to sound innocent so as to be appealing to Sasuke. The fact that he contradicts two other characters in regards to the demon fox's attack on Konoha attests to that. Regardless, he's still a textbook example of an antagonist (founder of Akatsuki, opposed First Hokage, keeping Naruto from Sasuke, etc.) ~SnapperTo 02:44, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Having been able to tame and control the Kyuubi (which is ALL Itachi said) doesn't automatically mean he was responsible for all of its actions. As seen in the most recent chapter, he apparently used the Kyuubi during his fight with the First Hokage... but there's no proof at all that he was responsible for its later attack. Jiraiya speculated about it, but that's all it was: Speculation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.99.127.210 (talk) 17:21, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Itachi specifically says Madara was responsible for the demon fox's attack in chapter 386. He was not speculating. ~SnapperTo 18:07, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

True, but even so, Madara said his brother gave him his eyes. Although what Itachi showed Sasuke says something completely different. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.157.68.40 (talk) 19:29, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Itachi's account of the eye transfer doesn't necessarily differ; even if Madara's brother willingly gave up his eyes he'd still be screaming in agony. Similarly, he may not have supported the idea until after his eyes were gone. Regardless, the article supports both accounts of the fox's attack. ~SnapperTo 20:40, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

What Itachi showed Sasuke was Madara reaching towards his terrified-looking brother's eyes, apologising, and then his new Uber-Mangekyo. What Madara showed Sasuke was his brother smiling with blood streaming out of his empty eye sockets. The two stories don't co-relate. If Madara's brother willingly gave up his eyes, he wouldn't have looked so terrified. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.26.133.248 (talk) 15:54, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Everyone seems to forget that the characters are NOT OMNISCIENT NARRATORS. You all read into what they say far too much, and take every word at face value. Itachi said what he thought was the case, Madara gave his version. They don't correlate because they're coming from CHARACTERS with different motives and knowledge bases.140.32.20.195 (talk) 14:23, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

What I'm getting at isd that unless Madara's playing innocent with Sasuke to gain his trust, then his version of the event is probably more correct than Itachi's because he was the one who did it! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.26.133.248 (talk) 20:24, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Evidently Madara is now a member of Snake/Hawk, as he is seen travelling with Sasuke, Jugo, Suigetsu, and Karin. 75.157.88.1 (talk) 17:16, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm really confused as of right now. Madara the mizukage? For those who haven't found out, read the new manga, it came out last night. Madara took off his mask and showed Kisame who he was, and apologized for deceiving him for so long knowing that he was close to "him." Kisame then referred to him as "Mizukage-sama" and then corrected himself saying, "or rather, Madara-san." I looked up the Mizukage, and nothing is known about him. Not even his face.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.130.36.37 (talk) 16:28, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

First off, what does "Mizukage" mean? Second, shouldn't it be included in Madara's profile that he could block Zabuza/Suigetsu's sword with one arm and not sustain any damage? 142.26.133.248 (talk) 22:00, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Mizukage is the leader of the village of the mist, the same as Hokage is the leader of the village of the leaves. it all fits —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.226.1.27 (talk) 05:42, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

ahhh most of this discussion is mere speculation but i would like to join it!!!!!!Grimmjow E6 (talk) 23:56, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

damn!(is swearing ok on wikipedia? T^T ) i really had my heart set on tobi being obito. im still watching the english anime, i learned about the akatsuki accidentally on youtube. anyway, Masashi was pretty clever. i think he wanted us to assume tobi was obito because the names have the same letters, they are both sharingan users, and they have the same hair, and apparently madara cut his hair short, and it looks just like obito's... Mr. Kishimoto truly is a manga/anime genius. KyuubiVsShukaku (talk) 00:28, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Hey, Tobi could still be Obito. It is very possible that Madara's, what, possesed Obito's body or something? All we know for sure is that Tobi=Madara. But hey, he could still be Obito. I mean, notice that Kishimoto-sama posted Kakashi's childhood story where Obito dies RIGHT BEFORE Shippuden. Then again, that story could've been placed there just to strengthen the misconception that Obito somehow survived. Still, I have a feeling that one-eyed mask will lead to something...Noodle2D23 (talk) 16:11, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

oh yeah, obito's mask. you know, that was the first thing that i saw as proof that tobi is obito. i don't know why i didn't include that. kakashi must've taken obito's left eye, because the right half of obito's body was crushed, but his eye could've healed, and the hole is over tobi's right eye. i justed wanted to say again about the name (i read this somewhere) if you say tobi over and over, you end up saying obito (over and over) tobitobitobitobi!! KyuubiVsShukaku (talk) 01:54, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Which of course is all irrelevant since we would need verfable sources to add anything of this nature and not pure speculation. --76.71.208.60 (talk) 20:15, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

well obviously we wouldn't add this to the article. i thought talk pages were MADE for speculation. was i mistaken? KyuubiVsShukaku (talk) 05:11, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

No, they're made to discuss the article, not its subject(s). If you want to speculate, there are plenty of forums out there to use. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 05:12, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

i'm sorry. i wasn't aware of that. KyuubiVsShukaku (talk) 00:42, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

I put down that Madara was able to block Suigetsu's sword with one arm and not sustain any damage, but someone deleated it. Why? 75.157.75.19 (talk) 18:54, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

If I had to guess it would likely be that it was deemed to trivaial for inclusion. --76.66.190.126 (talk) 02:10, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Madara and the Kyuubi

Just something you can add to the Madara section. In chapter 399, page 10 [1]& 11 [2], you see the battle between Hashirama and Madara. This little bit here proves that the Kyuubi was summoned twice by Madara, once to attack Konohagakure (Where he and it were defeated by Hashirama) and the second time where he made no appearance but the Kyuubi was sealed.

I've seen a lot of confusion about the Kyuubi attacking Konohagakure between friends and others i've spoken with, so i think if you added that fact you'd be able to clear a lot of this up as most people read from Wikipedia DaisukeVulgar (talk) 15:58, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Where does it state Madara summonded Kyuubi when Yondaime sealed him into Naruto? I assume thats the second summoning you're referring to. Frequen-Z (talk) 09:24, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

My mistake, it is only Itachi who points towards Madara summoning the Kyuubi the second time. Whereas Madara claims it to be only a natural disaster. Still, my point still stands that the Kyuubi has attacked Konohagakure twice and was defeated by a Hokage both times. DaisukeVulgar (talk) 00:51, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Karin is sick

She has bite scars everywhere except her hands, legs, and face. She even has scars on her breasts! *shudders in disgust* Just check page 14 of chapter 413. You can see the scars as she pulls open her shirt. Maybe that's what Suigetsu was refering to... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.157.79.72 (talk) 07:23, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Although likely relevant to this, Suigetsu specifically mentions that Karin did something to Sasuke, and Sasuke didn't appear to know that Karin could do that bite-thing prior to its unveiling. Suigetsu 16:55, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Hidan's village revealed

In the new data book Kishimoto released, it is revealed that Hidan is from Yugakure (Hidden Hot Springs). 71.168.75.15 (talk) 03:12, 15 September 2008 (UTC) Fantasy Leader

Pain's Bodies "Named"

In Naruto chapter 419, the six bodies Pain uses have received specific designations, unsurprisingly, derived from Buddhism. The names are as follows:

Six Paths of Pain (ペイン六道, Pein Rikudō)

• Deva Path (天道, Tendō)
• Asura Path (修羅道, Shuradō)
• Human Path (人間道, Ningendō)
• Animal Path (畜生道, Chikushōdō)
• Preta Path (餓鬼道, Gakidō)
• Naraka Path (地獄道, Jigokudō)

Note: Animal Path refers both to the original body and its replacement.

Some of these paths may be translated in other (less accurate) ways, however these are the most apt, and follow the preferred naming as per the Wikipedia articles on Buddhism. For example, though ten (天) may be translated as "god", "angel", or "heaven", in this case, it specifically refers to the Devas of Buddhist cosmology. Likewise, shura (修羅) may be translated as "demon", or "warring demon", but specifically refers to the Asura, and jigoku (地獄), which can be translated as "hell", specifically refers to the Naraka. Gaki (餓鬼), sometimes translated literally as "hungry ghost", are more properly known as Preta.

There are also deeper meanings here, which relate to their abilities. Animal Path summons creatures (animals, obviously), while Preta Path is able to devour attacks (Preta constantly hunger), Naraka Path can presumably resurrect the dead (Naraka revive the dead to continue their suffering), and so on.

I'm not sure how this information should be incorporated into the article (if at all), but I felt it was important to at least clearly lay out the facts, as some scanlations are already "mucking up" the meanings behind the names. The article is already fairly long, but this information could probably be added without making Pain's section too much longer. WtW-Suzaku (talk) 09:17, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Changed Deva Path to Heaven Path, because you can't just arbitrarily say "ten refers to deva here cuz i sed so." Back up your claim next time. 207.80.142.5 (talk) 16:44, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Please read the articles on Buddhism I linked to, it isn't arbitrary at all. Tendō (天道) is the Deva Path, or Deva Realm, of Buddhist cosmology, which all of the other names are derived from:

A deva (देव Sanskrit and Pāli) in Buddhism is one of many different types of non-human beings who share the characteristics of being more powerful, longer-lived, and, in general, living more contentedly than the average human being.

Synonyms in other languages include Tibetan lha, Chinese tiān (天）, Korean cheon, Japanese ten, Vietnamese thiên. The concept of devas was adopted in Japan partly because of the similarity with the Shinto's concept of kami.

Other words used in Buddhist texts to refer to similar supernatural beings are devatā "deity" and devaputra (Pāli: devaputta) "son of the gods". It is unclear what the distinction between these terms is.

Translating Tendō as "Heaven" is a huge misrepresentation, as the Deva (天, Ten) are a specific type of supernatural being in the Buddhist cosmology which exist in the "Fine-Material World", a plane of existance that, while similar to Western views of Heaven, is notably different, and is considered a "realm of suffering" because Devas are trapped in a state of pure carnal joy, preventing them from reaching enlightenment until they die and are reincarnated to one of the lower paths. WtW-Suzaku (talk) 17:20, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Oh, and to further prove the point, here are links to the Japanese wikipedia articles for Rikudō and, specifically, the Buddhist Deva. As you can see, the article on Devas specifically notes that 天 (and 天部神) are synonyms for Deva. WtW-Suzaku (talk) 17:38, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

And you're assuming that by using "Ten," they specifically intend to refer to Devas instead of the usual translation, "heaven" or "god." '天 is a kanji used to refer to heaven, god, etc., seeing as though those are its literal translations. No amount of stupid pages that use "ten" as the translation for Deva will prove your point unless you can specifically prove that in this instance, "ten" means "Deva" and not any of the other translations. You don't need to explain the concept of tendo to prove your point, either, nor does it really prove anything other than the fact that you're a huge tool. "Ten" can refer to Devas, but you have not specifically proven that in this instance it does. 207.80.142.5 (talk) 18:37, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Tendō (天道) is the Japanese (and Chinese, where it is pronounced Tian Dao) term for the Deva Path of Buddhist cosmology, which the supernatural creatures known as Deva (天, Ten) occupy. It's a direct translation, and has already been established as the preferred translation on wikipedia via the articles concerning Buddhism. It is not the same as Heaven Path, that is straight-up misinformation. Likewise, the Naraka Path (地獄道, Jigokudō) is not the Hell Path, Jigokudō specifically refers to the Naraka Path of Buddhist cosmology, where the Naraka reside. Same with the Asura Path (not "demon", they aren't "demons", they are a specific type of supernatural creature called Asura). Translating it as "Heaven" instead of "Deva" would be like saying Odin is a Demon or Zeus is an Angel. I don't know how I can state it more clearly to you, but here are a bunch of online sources in various languages, as well as a link to a good book on Buddhist terminology that you can buy from Amazon (ISBN 8121511453):

http://buddhism.lib.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-HFU/nx020891.htm

http://txt.duowan.com/070111/dfqw_sspzcz/8841200657.html

http://www.acmuller.net/soothill/data/s59/s5929-9053.html

http://www.xianfengfoxue.com/forum/index.php?s=c1dccd1839f200930b2d75141a3bd059&showtopic=4604

http://www.theqi.com/buddhism/yeh2.html

http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/six-states.shtml

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/8121511453/ref=ase_buddhartwobud-20/102-9268097-6394509?s=books&v=glance&n=283155&tagActionCode=buddhartwobud-20

Just because one of the kanji in the term can be translated as "Heaven" doesn't mean it's in any way accurate to translate the entire word as "Heaven Path". There's also absolutely no reason to start calling names, which is simply rude and against Wikipedia policies. WtW-Suzaku (talk) 19:07, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Although the IP's incivility was completely unacceptable, I agree with him. "Tendo" can either be translated as Heaven Path or Deva Path, and assuming one is true and the other false is simple WP:OR. You can give a bunch of links to a bunch of pages, but I could give just as much from some sort of Kanji dictionary that would tell you that "tendo" is heaven path. Suigetsu 22:27, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Something you don't seem to be understanding, in addition, is that although 天 can refer to the Devas, it is more commonly used to simply say "heaven." The same kanji is used, for instance, in Ichigo Kurosaki's signature Getsuga Tensho, however, we do not translate that as "Deva piercing moon fang." Suigetsu 22:34, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

The difference here is that we're not talking about just the word 天, we're talking about the word 天道, which is a Chinese and Japanese Buddhist term specifically referring to the Deva Path, of the Six Paths, which are also known as the Samsara. 天道 is a Japanese translation of the sanskrit "deva-gati", or "Deva Path", a cycle of rebirth in the Samsara in which one is reincarnated as a deva into an existance of carnal pleasure and bliss, until they die and are again reborn in another Path. It's not just a couple of characters randomly thrown together to make a cool-sounding name, it's a term with an actual definition and etymology that you can be traced all the way back to when people wrote in sanskrit. Would you translate 地獄耳 as "ground prison ear" just because that's what the individual kanji mean when seperated? Because that's wrong, 地獄耳 means "sharp-eared", as in being able to hear well. Japanese words aren't just the literal meanings of the individual kanji jammed together. WtW-Suzaku (talk) 00:04, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

So if I can find one instance where 天道 is translated literally and not as Deva Path, my point is proven? Suigetsu 16:15, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

What exactly is your point? That it's better to be literal than accurate? Would you translate 天才 as "heaven genius" instead of prodigy? Or translate 天然痘 as "heaven sort of pox" instead of variola? The fact is that words have meanings, and depriving them of their meanings for the sake of being as literal as possible doesn't make the article better. Yeah, you could translate 天道 as "Heaven Path", and you could also translate it as "Sky Road" or "Imperial Street", and many other things, but the fact is that 輪廻, 六道, 天道, 修羅道, 人間道, 畜生道, 餓鬼道, and 地獄道 are all Buddhist terms which have their own articles on wikipedia, with established English translations. 輪廻, 六道 are specific Buddhist terms, both referring to the samsara, also known as the six paths. The rest are the names of those six paths. 餓鬼道 and 修羅道, in fact, are so unique to Buddhism that Gaki redirects to Preta and the Shura disambiguation page links to the Asura (Buddhism) article, since they are supernatural creatures unique to Buddhism. I think the funniest thing about this argument is the fact that the six paths/六道 terminology I'm suggesting be used as the translations has been cross-linked back and forth between the Japanese and English language wikipedias since 2006.

My argument isn't that you can't translate them literally, it's that wikipedia already has established standards for the terminology in their Buddhism articles (some already even have redirects for the Japanese terms you're arguing about), and that we should follow the already established standards instead of trying to make up new translations, especially when the translations would be as big of a mischaracterization as "Demon Path" or "Ghost Path". WtW-Suzaku (talk) 01:35, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

No need to get defensive and accusatory.

"you could translate 天道 as "Heaven Path"

That is my point, and no amount of fan speculation or conjecture on your part can prove that Kishimoto meant "Deva Path." Who are you to say that Kishimoto didn't want it to be "Imperial Street," hm? 209.244.43.174 (talk) 02:23, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Because it's obvious. We IAR and move on. Drop the issue. — sephiroth bcr ^(converse) 02:28, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Like when we IAR on all those other fan theories... whatever, we don't actually mention Heaven Realm in the article, so either way it's a moot point, and I can't believe I'm just noticing this :S Suigetsu 03:53, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Someone is being an ignorant pile of *censored* here, and it isn't Suzaku... By all means, if you do not believe that "天道" is translated into "Deva Path" then I cannot really do anything about it, but why won't you go and waste your time disagreeing with everyone on the case of Tobi being Madara, just because he has identified and introduced himself as such? (It's still only fan-speculaion that he is until he has removed his mask after all)... And I can't help but noticing that while Suzaku has provided us with enough material to verify his statements, the only thing you've done is disagreeing with him, on no valid or verified grounds at all none the less. Can't really say that you have anything working in your favor here, can I? ... I vote in Suzaku's favor! 83.189.181.50 (talk) 20:36, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Old news. Don't try to bring back old conflicts, especially with a paragraph as painful to read as that thing. Also, nobody asked for any sort of vote from you or anyone. I don't know what you mean by "enough proof to verify his statements," because all he's really done is link a bunch of Buddhist information sites that say that it means Deva Path. I said earlier that if I wanted to, I could link a bunch of kanji dictionaries that say that it means "Heaven Path," but whatever, I'm not going to waste too much time on trolling diarrhea of the mouth from an IP user. 207.80.142.5 (talk) 18:27, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Are you just unable to accept the fact that you're wrong, are you miscontent by the choice of word/s or are you actually unable to see the context? Ah, doesn't matter, seeing as the general public've settled for "Deva" anyway. 83.189.179.162 (talk) 23:31, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

You do understand I stopped arguing about this before you entered the conversation? Drop the unwarranted self-importance and stop trolling. 207.80.142.5 (talk) 17:53, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

If you know anything about the Buddhist monk Tanzan, you'll reconsice these words and know their inner meaning. If not... Well, it never was my loss anyway... "I left the girl by the stream, are you still carrying her?" - Tanzan 83.189.179.167 (talk) 22:21, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

lol at the internet siddhartha gautama trying to be a prophet of buddhism Suigetsu 21:45, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Hidan "foul-mouthed"?

I changed it from "foul-mouthed" to "disrespectful" because he uses disrespectful honorifics. I believe somebody who watches Dattebayo's fansubs wrote that.Moocowsrule (talk) 06:44, 5 October 2008 (UTC)moocowsrule

No, that's been on there since before they got that far on the anime. He uses all sorts of profanities. In the future, do research before asserting stuff like that. Suigetsu 16:41, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

It really is more of just the rude speech pattern than actual profanities. People just translate it as profanities because it's easier to carry across rude speech patterns that way. The Splendiferous Gegiford (talk) 01:53, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

There are words which are considered vulgar enough that they're censored, but for that very reason, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't find them in a WSJ manga and definitely not in an anime broadcast like Naruto. Mostly, it's just that Japanese operates on levels of politeness, and what you see is a character being rude (not using proper honorifics, using informal words to refer to strangers, or intentionally using rude words). All the different variations of "you" are a good example: anata, anta, omae, temē, and kisama. They all just mean "you", nothing more, but there's a big difference between them. For example, you can refer to your buddies with omae, but it's rude to refer to a stranger with it, and using temē or kisama would be really rude to just about anyone. So, in order to get the meaning across in English, you have to take a bit of liberty, so you might see something like temē translated as, "you jerk", or kisama as, "you asshole". That's not what's literally being said in Japanese, but it's a way to get the rudeness across in English. WtW-Suzaku (talk) 04:35, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Isn't "kisama" usually translated as something like "bastard?" Either way, I think "rude" would better carry his personality across, although I personally like the various quotes you get by translating his rudeness with the profanities, such as "See ya, shitheads!" 207.80.142.5 (talk) 18:22, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

I do think there are some words in Japanese used that are actual curses. Case in point, when Grimmjow tells Ulquiorra to "blow him" in Bleach. It's a really short sentence that couldn't really be translated in any other way; it's a single verb, if I recall correctly. Suigetsu 21:44, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Bando

An article keeps being added about a character named 'Bando'. Is there any proof this character exists or is he just some persons created character trying to fool everyone? And if he does, shouldn't he be added to the games page and not the antagonists? This was used for Arturo for the Bleach page DaisukeVulgar (talk) 18:24, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Edit: After seeing a video of him on youtube, I can see he is real unless someone has created the perfect prank. But still, shouldn't he be added to his respective games page and not the antagonist page? Seems as the current version is for manga and anime only characters. DaisukeVulgar (talk) 18:39, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

References to the village names

Please someone fix the references to the villages. I click the takigakure which is mentioned on kakuzu's paragraph, and it just went to the world of naruto page and stuck at the top. Because there is no more a reference for a "takigakure" there. It is just written as their transleted names. And i dont know what "takigakure" means... --Fotte (talk) 21:49, 8 October 2008 (UTC)