Talk:America's Next Top Model season 11

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by SineBot (talk | contribs) at 02:54, 13 October 2008 (Signing comment by 71.139.36.76 - "→‎Elimination chart makeover: no its not official"). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Comment on Last Names

There seems to be some ... conflict, I guess, regarding the addition of last names. For all those that do not explicitly state "(First) (Last) is a contestant on America's Next Top Model, Cycle 11, I have been removing the last names, even if they appear to be sourced. Why?

  1. Many of these sources use blogs. Blogs violate Wikipedia's policy on reliable sources, because a) anyone can create them, and b) anyone can say anything. It's not really reliable or credible.
  2. For all the sources that aren't blogs, there's one main problem, and it's the fact that it violates Wikipedia's policy on original research. For Joslyn, it's clearly original research; that is, someone took the time to go and "find" her, and show the link as proof. There's nothing stating that she's the girl on America's Next Top Model, Cycle 11. As for Analeigh, there's no indication on that immediate page what the connection is between Analeigh and the website, much less top model.

I understand that this show is popular (I love it too) and that people want information as soon as possible. However, Wikipedia exists to have correct information, not to have information first. In previous cycles, there have been many issues with contestants having incorrect last names, with the right ones being found only after they get booted. There's no need to have last names, really. But if you want them, that's fine. But please make sure to get them right. SKS2K6 (talk) 21:30, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Last Names-Original Search:

Analeigh Tipton, Brittany Rubalcaba, Clark Gilmer, Elina Ivanova, Hannah White, Isis King, Joslyn Pennywell, Lauren Brie Harding, Marjorie Conrad, Brittany "McKey" Sullivan, Nikeysha Clarke, Samantha Potter, Brittney "ShaRaun" Brown, Sheena Sakai

Agree completely. So many of the reality-show articles contain last names not given by the network and never mentioned on the show. I've seen more than once that incorrect last names have been given, as well as misspelled last names. SKS2K6 is right on the money:
If we're sure our information is correct, we should have no problem giving a source. If we're not giving a source, ask ourselves: why aren't we? --207.237.223.118 (talk) 15:25, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Here's a source for Clark Gilmer's last name, if someone would like to add it to the locked article. Also, could someone please add citation or original research tags on the names without sources?

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/entertainment/story/607776.html The Sun News, on Myrtle Beach Online Tuesday, Sep. 30, 2008 "Clark Gilmer advances on 'Top Model'" Pawleys Island woman among TV series' nine finalists by Steve Palisin --69.22.254.108 (talk) 14:46, 3 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Lauren Brie's last name is Harding, according to Charlottesville Newsplex / WCAV Channel 19 News: "Monticello Grad to Appear on America's Next Top Model" Aug 14, 2008. --67.101.154.252 (talk) 17:05, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

CoverGirl of the Week

Are they not doing this anymore?69.112.221.166 (talk) 20:11, 11 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There was no voting this week. I wonder if it will start the next week or it will stop.

Double Elimination

Why is there a double elimination at episode 5? We haven't seen it yet, so how do we know that it's there?68.147.112.108 (talk) 23:11, 11 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Do you mean in the chart? It might be a formatting thing as Lauren Brie has two names. -- Banjeboi 00:51, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is the preview of Episode 5. Two girls are sent home in a surprise double elimination. The ladies practice their strut down a catwalk while wearing blindfolds and one girl shocks the judges when she decides to lift her dress while posing. The winner of the blindfold challenge will pose for designer Kira Plastinina in a Seventeen Magazine advertorial. In this week’s photo challenge, the girls pose with their eyes. After the judges deliberate, one girl is sent packing. Tyra Banks, Paulina Porizkova, J. Alexander and Nigel Barker are the judges.

However, the beginning of the preview is, "Two girls are sent home in a surprise double elimination" and the end "After the judges deliberate, one girl is sent packing".

OK, so it is a "double elimination", or is "one girl sent packing"? ... discospinster talk 14:46, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
We don't really know!!!:)
The table should be changed so that it only reflects one elimination for week 5. If two contestants go home, then the table would be changed back. I would do it but I have no luck messing about with tables. ... discospinster talk 17:03, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I've added a note at the top which should hold us for the two weeks, the statement seems to infer that indeed two are eliminated. -- Banjeboi 19:22, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'd like to know why we even have the callout orders for episodes that haven't even aired yet. It's not like we can confirm any of it as 100% fact until then... 68.19.150.211 (talk) 00:25, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm unsure how far in advance they are taped. It may be that screeners of the episodes have been leeked in some way or even someone associated with the show, are posting information but as it's not verifiable we really shouldn't touch it. If I can eliminate those columns in some constructive way I will. -- Banjeboi 00:40, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Who owns the time machine?

Today is Sept. 19. How is it two models are listed as eliminated on Sept. 24, in an episode airing five days in the future? --207.237.223.118 (talk) 15:29, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Even if someone from the show knows this information it isn't verifiable so should be removed. When the episode airs the episode itself is a reliable source - until then we don't have one. -- Banjeboi 22:31, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
On looking at this it seems you may mean why do we show two boxes for next week - it's because we have a source that two contestants are eliminated. -- Banjeboi 22:37, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Elimination chart makeover

I propose we rework the elimination chart so we don't list each model's name every week. I think it looks a bit sloppy (harder to follow), it's not terribly meaningful except who's called first and the bottom two and it bleeds off the page because it's too wide. I think we could keep all the same color boxes but adopt a format like they use on American Idol where the list is alphabetical order for the remaining contestants and as each is eliminated there name is locked in place on the bottom. (see how they handle it here). Does this sound like a good idea worth drafting up? -- Banjeboi 19:38, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

sorry, but I have to disagree. I like it the way it is.69.112.221.166 (talk) 22:39, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

thats the dumbest idea ever! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Smartie.Pantz4 (talk • contribs) 23:37, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Smartie.Pantz4 please be civil, you can simply state you don't agree and offer some constructive reasons why you don't. -- Banjeboi 01:17, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm working up a draft as I think it's still a good idea and will match the page width more appropriately. As soon as it's ready I'll post it here for others to see if it shows promise. -- Banjeboi 01:17, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree about the callout order not being that meaningful. Its not as if its completely random except for #1 and the bottom 2. Its definitely arranged by the judges in a particular order (For the most part at least -- While I doubt the judges put alot of thought into who will be called 7th and 8th when there are 13 contestants, I think everyone agrees that the person they decide to call 3rd did better than the person who they decide to call 8th that week. Catching my drift here?)MarkMc1990 (talk) 01:35, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I vote for keeping it how it is. If you want to simply see who was called first and who the bottom two were, that's listed in the episode description. In this show, the call-out order is considered to be significant, and listing all of the names allows us to simultaneously denote who won the reward challenge (as well as other features, as you can see in previous Cycles' completed charts). Thereisn0try (talk) 01:38, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment. Do we have any reliable sources/proof that the call out order is significant besides the bottom two and, this season, first called? This would help resolve this. -- Banjeboi 02:31, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
We don't need one. Its just understood. Its not like Tyra puts the best photo on top, the 2 worst on bottom, and then shuffles all the rest in between when she does the call-out order. The judges definitely arrange the photos in a specific order from best to worst. Have you ever paid attention to any episodes? Did you ever happen to notice that the girls with the strongest photos of the week are called closer to the top and the girls with the weaker photos are called closer to the bottom, in an apparent descending order? That’s not a coincidence. (And of course things like personality, potential, performances in runways and commercials, etc are often factored in to the call-out order as well). They just make a bigger deal out of the bottom 2 for obvious dramatic purposes. MarkMc1990 (talk) 03:58, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
But there's still no source. It's assumed. Generally speaking, yes, the "better" performers are on top and the "worse" performers are on the bottom. But sometimes no one is really good, so they're all just random. And sometimes, the "worst" performer doesn't go home but instead goes home for another reason (i.e., "losing their spark" or "lack of improvement"). So it's still sketchy. SKS2K6 (talk) 05:11, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
And in thinking about it more, we may be reading too much into the order - they may be switching around names for dramatic effect. If we can prove that the judges ascribe the fifth girl called as being in fifth place then fine, but I don't think we can do that. Although interesting on some level it seems a bit fan site-like. -- Banjeboi 13:21, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well in this episode, Tyra tells Jaeda "I called your name 3rd because you comitted today", indicating that a higher position in the call-out order is based on some degree of merit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGP9FDu2DI&feature=PlayList&p=891146B95D3D6BB3&index=44 MarkMc1990 (talk) 21:38, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Source or not, I don't see any viable reason to change a format that has been maintained through all 10 other cycle entries. Is anyone really being disturbed by the existence of this table? Does it go against any Wikipedia policies? If not, I see no reason to change/delete it. I find it useful and visually appealing. Thereisn0try (talk) 00:42, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well as i explained it's visually sloppy - that we're consistently sloppy for ten years isn't then best reason to continue the tradition. The chart is oriented landscape - going across - thus bleeds too far, an upright configuration would also address that. No compelling information has been presented that the order is important beyond what fansites read into it. Having stated all this I'm not into fighting an uphill effort to improve the quality of this article but I stand firm that accessibility issues and conveying information is important. If any future efforts want help cleaning up some of the drama and addressing some of the more problematic aspects let me know on my talk page as I'll likely not be watchlisting this anymore. -- Banjeboi 02:41, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
In last night's episode, Tyra told Analeigh she was the "runner-up for the best photo" after calling her name second, so obviously its not just the first call-out and the bottom 2 that are significant. Face it, the call-out order is indeed merit-based. Theres no reason to list only the bottom 2. MarkMc1990 (talk) 20:37, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That covers second place for that night but does not mean that each model is in 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc place - I do not see anything official suggest that, only fansites. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.139.36.76 (talk) 02:53, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Double Elimination in Episode 5

Because we know that two models will be eliminated (one at judging and one not at judging), can the table be changed so that instead of two   (violet boxes), there is one   and below, one   (brown box), which corresponds to the colors on the ANTM discussion page? Jhg812 (talk) 18:52, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Too Casual?

Some of the text seems overly casual. In the episode, "You're beautiful, Now Change" or something to that affect, a user wrote that Isis felt insecure because she's transgendered and "doesn't have the right junk". Considering this is an encyclopedia, I wouldn't approve of slang. I think, "because she's a pre-op transgender" would be more appropriate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.236.68.147 (talk) 14:52, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Elimination Top 3

Hey. Know what you did was wrong and everything about putting the top 3 down. But if that was true and you know the other call-out orders, could you put it on my talk page, please? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.243.210.16 (talk) 17:09, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hannah eliminated

Why is Hannah eliminated already? The episode hasn't come out yet —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.147.112.108 (talk) 01:50, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A video preview does not show her at judging. For more information:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21WgZfA5JTU

Hannah

Hannah is eliminated outside of panel, so put her in the red box. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ttfan12311 (talk • contribs) 20:48, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Because of the fact that we cannot verify this until after the episode airs, we cannot add it into the article. It's more important that Wikipedia's correct than Wikipedia being "first" or early to report news. SKS2K6 (talk) 20:50, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
(Since the episode aired, it can obviously be inserted now.) SKS2K6 (talk) 17:48, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Tallest/shortest

Isis is cleary the shortest, and Mckey was the tallest by a fair bit at the bowling alley, where they were all wearing the same shoes.signed laquisha —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.111.36.35 (talk) 11:23, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

But that falls under original research and Wikipedia doesn't like that. SKS2K6 (talk) 17:48, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Spoilers and Speculation

There have been alot of people adding information that is based on unconfirmed rumors, or sepculation. that in my mind constitutes vandalism and needs to stop imediatlly the people addidn thise stuff need to be blocked from editing. Also though it's not so bad people have been adding sourced information about the show before the show airs in all time zones (spoilers). It's not really fair to people to put this info in the article until it's been aired and peole should stop doing it. -Misty Willows (talk) 21:02, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Call-Out Order

The call-out order shouldn't be filled since no one knows whose the winner will be yet. They should erase all the names from the call out order after episode 5. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jorgeandmarcos (talk • contribs) 23:22, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

thank you to whoever corrected the chart....I caught the mistake and was shocked...now i'm dieing to know if it'll turn out to be true though....i love the surprise and shock but if it turns out to be true that'll raise a lot of q's....Leah 65.78.24.59 (talk) 23:42, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Who keeps filling out the chart? It's really annoying! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.147.112.108 (talk) 16:04, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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