2008–09 Heineken Cup pool stage and User talk:MarshalN20: Difference between pages

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Welcome!

Hello, MarshalN20, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question and then place {{helpme}} before the question on your talk page. Again, welcome! // laughing man 01:53, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much laughing man. Yes, I don't remember ever getting a formal welcome ( :D ). Well, yes, I'm hoping to stay and help Wikipedia with the articles. I know many people think Wikipedia isn't really much of a reliable network, but what many don't know is that it's actually one of the better-places out there to find some sort of information. I mean, just because it doesn't have some source to validate a statement, it doesn't mean it's false. It just means there's a chance it's not true ( ;) ). Thank you once more for the welcome. MarshalN20 11:07, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Peru national football team

Hello. Congratulations on your efforts to improve the article on the Peruvian national football team. For further improvement and suggestions you might want to submit it for peer review at Wikipedia:WikiProject Peru/Peer review. I'm sure members of the project will be glad to help. Greetings, --Victor12 17:56, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Sure, I can do it for you if you want. Just write a short introduction for the article and post it in my talk page. Greetings, --Victor12 18:32, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Done! You might want to add Wikipedia:WikiProject Peru/Peer review/Peru national football team to your watchlist so that you'll know when comments arrive. --Victor12 19:49, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Bolivar

Hi MarshalN20 - I apologize for cavalierly reverting the edit you just made to Bolivar, and if you restore it I won't take it out again. But I really think it needs to be re-written in encyclopedia style, something like, "Some scholars, on the other hand, have questioned..." Llajwa 00:33, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Problems

I did what the peer review suggested. Also, I mostly work on articles that don't attract a lot of attention, so not using the talk page is something I'm used to because there's a good chance that no one will respond in months. I apologize for the big edit. I also did not know that the Peru national football team was so active. I hope you can understand and that I will use the talk page for major edits in the future. --MicroX 21:04, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Quechua

Hi, Marshal. I'm glad to see you added some references, but there are a number of problems.

First, the Incas did not impose Quechua universally. This is easily seen from the fact that Aymara is widespread in former Inca territory. Bruce Mannheim's The Language of the Inka since the European Invasion explains the linguistic diversity of the Inca empire (which for most regions only lasted about a hundred years).

"Historians" don't talk about "Original Quechua"; that's Paul Heggarty term, and he is a linguist (a very good one, and a Wikipedia contributor). Most linguists would say Proto-Quechua. The thing is, Proto-Quechua was not spoken in Inca times; the divergence between Central and Peripheral Quechua predates them by centuries.

Most importantly, the Incas spoke an early form of Southern Quechua. They did not spread this to central Peru because central Peru already spoke Quechua. Quechua I is not any sort of "slang" or the result of previous languages. It is the Quechua heartland. For more see Lyle Campbell's American Indian Languages or Rodolfo Cerrón-Palomino's Lingüística Quechua. Also see Paul's excellent page on myths about Quechua: http://www.quechua.org.uk/Eng/Main/i_MYTHS.HTM

Thus, the diversity of Quechua does not result from the spread of the Incas. The Incas did spread their form of Quechua. The Spanish spread it further. If you look at the map on the Quechua page, the II-B and II-C areas (outside southern Peru) are where they expanded the empire and spread their own dialect.

Finally, there isn't any evidence that the "ruling elite" remained closer to Cusco dialect. The areas that remained closer to Cusco dialect are simply those that were most recently conquered. Zompist (talk) 18:29, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Bicycle Kick

Sections of the content that you included infringes policy. Selecciones de la Vida (talk) 01:00, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

For example you included Although the Peruvian claim lacks specific dates and names for its evidence, it gives a substantial amount of facts. The legacy of the Chalaca lives on to this day as Peru is not the only nation to call the move in such a manner. That constitutes as original research. Selecciones de la Vida (talk) 01:05, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

It's not original research when it's included in the same source that you provided under "Campaña". If anything a new section should be added to the article. You included an edited statement of what Manuel Burga had said which was de origen peruano y no chileno, como equivocadamente se le llama. Selecciones de la Vida (talk) 01:35, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Barraza does not represent an entire country when Ole the Argentine publication that published the interview with Huigita makes reference to chilena when he uses the term chalaca. Selecciones de la Vida (talk) 02:12, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Going to review the tour dates. Selecciones de la Vida (talk) 02:18, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

According to http://peru.com/futbol/seleccion/historia/futbolistas/tfernandez.asp

Lolo Fernandez played against Magallanes on "29 de noviembre de 1931" and Alianza's games against Chilean clubs happened after 1935. There is never any mention of him performing a bicycle kick within that source. The other link you provided http://www.clubalianzalima.com/pages/hist1921.asp doesn't feature any content other than an image. Selecciones de la Vida (talk) 02:32, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

You need to read Wikipedia:No original research. You are simply stringing together different types of information just to prove a point, which has no relevance to the subject matter which is the invention of the bicycle kick. All those club tours especially the one between Alianza Lima and Colo-Colo occurred well after David Arellano showcased the move in Europe, and well after 1920, where Unzaga executed the move in the South American Championship. The fact that Peru may have an older sports institution in no way validates the claim. Selecciones de la Vida (talk) 16:57, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Facts are one thing but have no purpose when trying to prove a point which is explained in Wikipedia's original research policy. You are trying to state that because of a few club games between Chilean and Peruvian clubs after 1927 the year that David Arellano had died in Spain, the bicycle kick came about? If not than the content is not in context to the claim. This is an encyclopedia and nationalistic pride is put aside, that doesn't mean that the article cannot follow proper guidelines and be well written. Tennis has no relevance to the subject matter yet you'd like to include that. Selecciones de la Vida (talk) 17:17, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Kick

{{helpme}}

My question: Help! Please, I'm serious about this. In the article Bicycle Kick a user has been vandalizing the article and making it POV towards his views. You can read on the discussion page on the article the situation. Also, you can compare the version he is vandalizing and my version in my "MarshalN20" Username page. Please help. He has also been deleting several of my sources. I don't know what to do. I've put a lot of work into this and he keeps vandalizing my things.--MarshalN20 (talk) 19:46, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

You can report him to WP:AIV if he keeps it up, or discuss it with him. Also, new posts on a talk page always go to the bottom, so I moved this. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP)} 19:49, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

This isn't vandalism. Please discuss this with the other user on the talk page, as Wikipedia:Dispute resolution requires. Note you are potentially violating the three revert rule. Hut 8.5 20:05, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

If he replaced the page with profanity, that would be vandalism. So long as the user honestly believes they are making the article better through his efforts then they are not vandalising. The method commonly accepted on Wikipedia for resolving disputes is not simply repeated reversion of material (which both of you were doing, and I've warned the IP as well) but discussion with the other party on the talk page. It may be that you weren't aware of this, that's OK - you are now. If one or more parties won't discuss changes on the talk page, then the user can be blocked for edit warring or the page can be protected (requests should go here and here respectively). Hut 8.5 20:18, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

You're welcome. I see someone has blocked the IP for violating the rules anyway. Hut 8.5 20:26, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Pisco

Hi MarshalN20,

You recently added a reference for the claim that Pisco is named after the port city in Peru. I'm sure you're aware that it is quite a contentious issue between Peru & Chile. Because of this, I think that a Peruvian Pisco manufacturers website is not a very reliable reference. It would be much better to have a reference from an neutral international researcher or something similar. 'Pisco' is also a common Quechua word, I think strong evidence that the drink was specifically named after the port city.

Also as a Peruvian, you should be extremely careful about editing the Pisco page to avoid bias. It receives a lot of edits by Pervian/Chilean editors who each delete the others content, re-word or re-order things in favor of their country.

--Ozhiker (talk) 09:07, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

RE

This reliable source states that the first recorded game of football in Peru occurred in 1892. The Lima Cricket and Football Club‎ website is non-nuetral,therefore less reliable that the neutral source. if you wish to use the Lima Cricket and Football Club article to boast about football in Peru predating football elsewhere on the continent plaese find a relaible source that gives an account of a football match played in Peru before 1867. E P 23:22, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

You clearly believe that you own the Peru section of the Bicycle Kick article constantly reverting other peoples edits. The long section you keep reinserting adds nothing to the article, it just fills out the section, there is no equivelent on the origins of football in Italy, the oldest club in Italy the most important seaport in Italy, etc. The the Italian claim is clearer and more consise for the ommission of such needless information.
You left this on my talkpage, it is misleading According to the book you cite, the first recorded football match happened in 1867. In that same book they never state that this was the first football match. They simply state that it was the "first recorded." I'm sure you know enough about the English language to know the difference between both things. The book I cited actually stated "soccer arrived in Peru in the 1880s aboard an english ship", "the first recorded football match took place in 1892" and "In 1893 two exclusive soccer clubs were formed, Lima Cricket and Football Club.... and Unión Cricket". This contradicts your wishful interpretation of what the book says.
Whenever someone makes changes you dont like, you revert without discussion, make false accusations of vandalism and/or rant on their talkpages instead of trying to engage anyone in discussion you tell them that they are wrong, misquoting or misinterpreting things in the process see point 2. Your manner is confrontational and patronising. Please read up on Wikipedia policies such as WP:CON, WP:CIVIL, WP:3RR, WP:SOCK and WP:SELFPUB.

-E P 23:14, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

You clearly didn't read WP:CIVIL did you? E P 22:33, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

If you re-read what I said, Mariano, Nanonic and Selecciones are the respected editors, please ensure that you actually understand what people are saying before you start ranting on. If you have nothing but barely comprehensible drivel and weak insults to offer in defence of your position, I recomend that you keep quiet. Now could you please desist from drivelling on my talkpage. Thank you. E P 13:26, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Please stop hurling around unsubstantiated allegations. If you suspect misconduct you should provide diffs as evidence and if you suspect sock-puppetry you should Request checkuser. Making unsubstantiated allegations, being rude, aggressive, sarcastic and misrepresenting other peoples intentions do nothing but damage your argument further. Have you nothing better to do here than post on my talkpage? E P 19:02, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Civility

Please be WP:CIVIL in your discussions. I see you are engaged in an edit war on Bicycle kick and Talk:Bicycle kick. I have seen name calling that is not constructive and does no befit intelligent adults such as yourself and the other two sides on this discussion User:English peasant and User:Selecciones de la Vida. I would suggest all sides tone down the nastiness and concentrate on resolving the dispute. May I suggest, if you cannot reach an agreement to ask at FOOTY where there are many knowledgeable editors that can help resolve the issue. If you want a more formal process, you could also consider Dispute Resolution. I also would advise stepping away from the article for a few days to let things cool down. Notices are also given to the other two parties. -- Alexf⁴² 19:57, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Discussions

FYI, I have opened discussions at WP:FOOTBALL and WP:WIKIQUETTE. E P 23:31, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi, MarshalN20

I do not know so much about South American cuisine but it seems to me that what this user is doing on Wikipedia 201.255.138.172, or 201.255.167.247 using both nr. (the one you corrected on . Alfajor) is wrong and not correct. He is reverting categories, Wikiproject info on talk pages, and removing informatiom about other countries, mainly Chile and Mexico , claimimng thet dishes are from Argentina, Articles like . Dulce de leche‎;, Empanada‎; [[Choripán‎[]] ;Dulce de membrillo. Can you support his information?

Warrington (talk) 09:10, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your help. What happened whith these articles was weird. Good detective work!

Warrington (talk) 14:45, 11 October 2008 (UTC)