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[[Keel Mountain]] is a [[mesa]] in [[Madison County, Alabama|Madison]] and [[Jackson County, Alabama|Jackson]] Counties in [[Alabama]]. It is associated with the [[Cumberland Plateau]], from which it is separated by the valley of the [[Paint Rock River]].
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*[[/Archive1|'''January 2006 - June 2007''']]
*[[/Archive2|'''June 2007 - October 2007]]'''
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==Was a new genre classification really needed?==
==Legend of Lost Gold of Keel Mountain==
Dubstep seems to be what Trip-Hop, Electronica, Ambient and IDM could sound like anytime. [[Special:Contributions/83.77.192.92|83.77.192.92]] ([[User talk:83.77.192.92|talk]]) 07:16, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
:it's probably easier to think of this in terms of a continuum... dub/kraftwerk/grandmaster flash/loads of other stuff led to jungle which led to dnb and sorta simultaneously 2-step which eventually lead to early dubstep stuff. meanwhile the ragga/ragga jungle thing and dnb and idm and basic channel and scorn and all that other stuff was going on. and the pervasive dub under it all. so maybe it's apt to say the dubstep article captures a particular moment or phase in the continuum of bass-heavy electronic music. but it's definitely a notable one and therefore worthy of an article. --[[User:Kaini|Kaini]] ([[User talk:Kaini|talk]]) 03:51, 14 September 2008 (UTC)


== sonar and the other european festivals ==
Keel Mountain has a legend stretching all the way back from the civil war it is aptly named The Legend of Lost Gold of Keel Mountain.
Is there a way to maybe have a section mentioning the huge back to back support dubstep has had from nearly all the of the major european festivals in both 2007 , 2008?
dubstep has headlined at Glastonbury(two years in a row), Roskilde, Sonar (Two years in a row now !), Bestival, Life Festival , Outlook, Dour Festival, Massive Attack's Southbank Festival etc etc.
There has been some press on some of these festivals as well. What do you guys think?
[[User:Seckle|Seckle]] ([[User talk:Seckle|talk]]) 08:18, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
:i reckon we could incorporate that info, sure. dunno about a new section, but there's lots of sourceable material out there for sure. i have a few days off work, might gather some linkage tomorrow. --[[User:Kaini|Kaini]] ([[User talk:Kaini|talk]]) 23:07, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
::[http://www.datatransmission.co.uk/features114.aspx Massive Attack at Meltdown] (as an aside, howlett getting on the dubstep wagon? awww... :( )
::[http://www.residentadvisor.net/feature-read.aspx?id=822 Mary Ann, Skream, and Kode9 at Sonar 2007] -[[User:Kaini|Kaini]] ([[User talk:Kaini|talk]]) 23:52, 2 July 2008 (UTC)


== thank you ==
The great thing about legends is they usually start with a grain of truth. They are passed on from generation to generation and along the way, they are embellished, disputed, defended, believed, disbelieved, and usually told a little bit different each time. They stay alive because there is always that shred of hope and a small possibility they could be true or at least, true enough to be partially believable. Many men and women have spent untold days and even years chasing legends like the lost mines of El Dorado and the buried treasures of Blackbeard the pirate. True or not, it really makes no difference because legends will continue to live on because they always make good stories and provide great adventures to armchair voyagers.
Just read through all that Kaini and Zeibura have to go thru in maintaining this page. Thank you guys for all the long work. It's a thankless task. I think the page is looking more and more decent recently. All the basics are covered.
[[User:Seckle|Seckle]] ([[User talk:Seckle|talk]]) 08:13, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
:you're welcome! sadly zeibura's on a wikibreak (he was an excellent editor) and i haven't seen p4k in a while, so i was glad to see you show up. inspired me to do something other than typo-fixing and reverting vandalism. would love to get more folk from dubstepforum involved. --[[User:Kaini|Kaini]] ([[User talk:Kaini|talk]]) 23:10, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Fantastic article. Great read, very informative![[User:Judyholliday|Judyholliday]] ([[User talk:Judyholliday|talk]]) 12:33, 14 July 2008 (UTC)


== i would ==
Such is the legend of the Lost Gold of Keel Mountain told first by an old Madison County man named Jeremiah McCain, who had joined up with a renegade band of rebel guerillas in early 1862. He was in his early fifties and quite an old man to be a soldier. McCain had never married and lived like a hermit who had no family. He had worked on farms doing odd jobs and barely made enough to live on. He only joined the rebel band so he could kill Yankees and get a free meal.


Highly appreciate it, if my submission were allowed to remain up.
In April of 1862, Union Army Brigadier General Orsmby M. Mitchel left Nashville, Tennessee and moved his small army southward through Shelbyville toward Huntsville, Alabama. After some minor resistance from roving Confederate bands, on April 11, 1862, his Union troops marched into Huntsville and occupied the city. Regiment after regiment of mud splattered Union soldiers marched through the streets of downtown Huntsville and gathered at the courthouse square. Huntsville was now in Union occupied hands.
Its in now way spam, and it was written out of the knowledge I've achieved due to being a dubstep fan living in south florida. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Smittysaint|Smittysaint]] ([[User talk:Smittysaint|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Smittysaint|contribs]]) 22:44, 4 November 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


:Please see [[WP:OR|wikipedia's policy on original research]] - all contributions must be verifiable and sourced, and your paragraphs were, like you just said, original research. If you can find sources to suggest the dubstep scene in south florida is in any way significant and verify what you've written, then add it back. Also, bear in mind Wikipedia is supposed to have global scope, so adding extensive information on regional scenes not significant to the development of the genre would ultimately overcrowd the article. - <font face="Trebuchet MS">[[User:Zeibura|Zeibura]]</font> <sup>([[User talk:Zeibura|Talk]])</sup> 00:13, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
General Mitchell was a vain, petulant man who had trouble getting along with people, especially the inhabitants of the town who considered the occupying Federals as foreign invaders. The Union soldiers stripped shops and stores of various merchandise items and either stole them or discarded them on the streets. The population of Huntsville was infuriated. Another big problem was that of money, both for the soldiers and the local inhabitants. The Confederate script was now worthless and out of fear of being branded a traitor, the Southerners would not accept United States currency or script. General Mitchell knew that in order to restore order in the town and make conditions for all the occupying soldiers and local inhabitants palatable, he needed to stimulate the local economy by supplying a form of currency all would accept. He needed a good supply of gold coins. A request went out to Union headquarters to send fifty thousand dollars in gold coins, of different denominations, to Huntsville by a special guarded courier detachment.
a courier unit at Union headquarters in Nashville and transport the gold shipment back to Huntsville The predominate United States gold coins of that time were the Coronet Head Eagles that came in four basic denominations. He requested an assorted quantity of Quarter Eagles ($2.50), Half Eagles ($5.00), Eagles ($10), and Double Eagles ($20.00). He knew the feel and shine of pure gold coins would mellow the moods of an angry populace and bring more harmony to the town. After several delays caused by normal bureaucratic red tape, the unusual request was granted and a heavily armed and very secret detachment from the Fourth Ohio Cavalry was dispatched to meet a courier unit at Union headquarters in Nashville and transport the gold shipment back to Huntsville. Sometime in mid November, the detachment quietly sneaked out of Huntsville and headed along the Meridianville Road toward Nashville. The Union detachment consisted of eleven men, headed by a First Lieutenant, a Sergeant, and nine cavalry troopers.


well, they are booking awesome djs and as a writer who sees it with their own eyes, i feel that it definitely deserves a spot up there.
The detachment slipped by several bands of Confederate Cavalry and pickets and made their way across the Tennessee state line and quietly through the rolling countryside into Nashville. The gold shipment had arrived in Nashville the day before and was stored in a safe at Army Headquarters. The shipment consisted of two small metal strongboxes with the gold coins neatly stacked in rows within two leather pouches in each box. The Double Eagles were in one box and the other assortment of coins in the other. This idea of packing was done as an afterthought, in case the detachment ran into trouble. If that misfortune should occur, the pouches could be quickly removed from the boxes and fastened to the saddles for a hasty retreat.


[[User:Smittysaint|Smittysaint]]</font> <sup>([[User talk:Smittysaint|Talk]])</sup> <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|comment]] was added at 03:00, 5 November 2007 (UTC)</small><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
On a cold and damp November morning, the strongboxes were loaded on a large pack mule and secured with a special leather harness. At nightfall, the detachment quietly moved out of town in single file. They made their way back along the same direct route that would take them near the towns of Murfreesboro, Shelbyville, and Fayetteville. While these towns were in the hands of Union occupation troops, they were still hot beds of rebel guerilla activity and roaming Confederate cavalry units.
*Well, I'm sure they're good DJs and all, but this sort of insider/unpublished information isn't verifiable and falls under the category of original research as Zeibura says above. As an encyclopedia, Wikipedia relies on secondary sources for information. [[User:Wickethewok|Wickethewok]] 14:12, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
They made their way back along the same direct route that would take them near the towns of Murfreesboro, Shelbyville, and Fayetteville.


== britney spears and subbass ==
Upon their approach to the small hamlet of Belleview, the lead scout trooper came riding back to report a large group of Confederate cavalry camped nearby, slightly to the west of Belleview. The Lieutenant decided to avoid the enemy by detouring eastward toward Booneville. Circling a few farms near Booneville the detachment then turned south to pick up a new route back to Huntsville. As they circled around a large cornfield, they were spotted by a small detachment of Confederate cavalry moving out of the trees and along the far edge of the field. The Confederates fired a few scattered shots and charged after the Federals. The Union officer shouted a command and the detachment took off at a gallop. They rode hard for about two miles and slowed down to rest their horses. The Lieutenant picked out four men and gave them an order to take up a defensive position and hold off the Confederates as long as possible to give the unit a chance to escape with the gold shipment. The four took positions behind some fallen trees and waited for their adversaries to ride up while the remaining seven men turned toward the southwest and toward Fayetteville. They did not have long to wait for within a few minutes, Confederate troopers from Roddy's Fourth Alabama Cavalry rode up and received fire from the four hidden troopers. One Confederate grabbed his chest and was lifted from his saddle and fell heavily to the ground. Another grabbed his shoulder and let out a soft cry as his mount cut sharply to the right. The remaining troopers moved back quickly out of range and took cover in some nearby trees. They dismounted and put a hasty plan together to encircle the Federals from both flanks. The Confederates had about sixteen effective men left but were not sure exactly how many Federals were positioned behind the fallen tree trunks. They left six men in front to deliver and draw fire while the remaining troopers split up and began circling in both directions. The lead elements came around the flanks to discover the four Federals dug in behind the trees. Enfilade fire was delivered striking two of the Federals immediately and dropping them to the ground. The other two quickly made it back to their horses and mounted quickly in an effort to escape. One slug found one trooper in the side as he dropped from the saddle and the other took off through the woods. Somehow, he managed to escape capture since the Confederates were dismounted and could not follow him quickly enough through the dense woods and underbrush.


there is, believe it or not, a track entitled 'freakshow' on [[Blackout (Britney Spears album)|britney's latest album]] which has a proper 'wobbler' subbassline. i was taken aback by it - you can find it on youtube pretty easily. i wonder if that's worth a mention or verifiable in some form other than shocked forum posts. the vocal disc of pinch's album is extremely commercial as well. this inevitable (''just like d'n'b :('') assimilation into the mainstream might be worth sticking in at the end in some form or other. not dissing that pinch album btw - i love it. --[[User:Kaini|Kaini]] ([[User talk:Kaini|talk]]) 00:48, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
A few miles to the southwest, the remaining Union detachment was skirting to the east of Fayetteville when they spotted a large group of mounted men milling about near a deserted farmhouse and sporting a rag tag assortment of uniforms and carrying no flag or banner for identification. The Lieutenant quickly identified this group as an unauthorized band of rebel guerillas out on a raid. There must have been at least thirty -five men in this group. The Federals had not been spotted and quietly made their way around the farmhouse and on to the narrow dirt road beyond. After riding about two miles, the group stumbled upon two mounted guerilla scouts, surprising both parties out of their wits. Pistols were drawn and in very close quarters, the rebels rode past the Federals at a fast gallop. One guerilla fell from the saddle mortally wounded but the other was through the pack and gone in an instant. Ironically, the guerilla that got away was none other than Jeremiah McCain. He rode hard to warn the main guerilla party and take up chase of the seven remaining Federals. Meanwhile the Federals turned their horses south and headed for the state line at the old Elora place. They moved quickly and crossed the state line without any incidents.
The thought of bounty or payroll was all the incentive the rebels needed to move fast and take up a vigorous pursuit. McCain had found his companions who wheeled their horses and took up a quick pursuit of the small Federal band. McCain had seen the “out of place” pack mule and surmised there may be something important in those boxes. The thought of bounty or payroll was all the incentive the rebels needed to move fast and take up a vigorous pursuit. They spurred their horses onward in hot pursuit of the Federals knowing they had a head start of a few precious miles.


:Wow this is ridiculous. It probably is worth mentioning, and I think it's verifiable, or at least it's verifiable that some critics have talked about the song in those terms. Here are some sources:
The countryside into North Alabama is predominately rolling hills with both woods and scattered fields. The Federals drove their horses as hard as they could aware of the superior enemy force coming "hell bent for leather" behind them. They made their way past the community of New Market and skirted around a small mountain called Lewis Mountain. They then veered eastward about a mile then came to the Flint River where they planned to follow it south to the John Gurley farm where they would pick up Union outposts and friendly troops that could escort them on to Huntsville. The river should be easy to follow and at least offer them some protection to their flank. The route along the river was easy and they even stopped to water and rest their horses for a short while. Although they had not seen any rebel guerillas or Confederate Cavalry, they knew the band of guerillas they saw up in Tennessee would be close behind. The group mounted and continued at a brisk pace along the eastern bank of the Flint. Soon they approached a long fingerlike mountain off to the right with steep bluffs rising about four hundred feet. This was known as Sublett Bluff and it runs parallel to the river. Beyond the mountain was a hidden valley called Potts Hollow and little did the Federals know but it was a stronghold and hiding place to a band of rebel guerillas who camped both in the hollow and on top of the mountain called Chestnut Knob. Two mounted guerillas were riding on the top of the bluff when they spotted the small band of Union troopers riding along the river below. The two rebels split up and one continued to follow the band while the other rode off to warn the others.
* "When Team Britney require a dubstep track, for instance, they simply borrow some production tricks and make one. The result is "Freakshow", built around the "wobbler" effect that's a genre standby. A dubstep forum thread on the tune hit seven pages in 24 hours, mixing outrage and delight..."[http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/feature/47096-column-poptimist-10]
*http://blogs.ocweekly.com/heardmentality/new-releases/have-you-heard-of-this-britney/
*http://www.sputnikmusic.com/album.php?reviewid=14054
*http://arts.independent.co.uk/music/reviews/article3141456.ece
[[User:P4k|P4k]] ([[User talk:P4k|talk]]) 01:08, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
::it's mental, isn't it? flavour du jour. i have a dread of burial's new disc becoming the coffeetable album of 2008. gonna have to think about how to phrase this (unless someone else wants a a crack). And the reviews of this album have me a bit intrigued, think i'm going to check it out. apparently [[Freescha]] produces a track on it as well...--02:18, 21 November 2007 (UTC)


==GA passed!==
As the Union detachment rounded the end of the mountain at Sublett Point, they saw mounted horsemen riding fast to intercept them at a point where the river split in two then rejoined a short distance down stream. The Federals turned straight south and headed for the large mountain about a mile in front of them. If they could just get around this mountain, they knew they would link up with some Federal troops and make their way on safely to Huntsville. They knew this was Keel Mountain. They quickly crossed Hurricane Creek and headed for the large point that loomed up before them.
And here are some minor suggestions;
*A relevant image would be nice at the start of the article
*:i'm considering asking the photographer if they would release [http://farm1.static.flickr.com/95/265411992_2fed7e3f8f.jpg?v=0 this photo] to CC as an opener. or maybe [http://farm1.static.flickr.com/108/265411995_0823f9e0d7.jpg?v=0 this]. opinions? also, GA! can i get a rewind on that one? --[[User:Kaini|Kaini]] 02:32, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
*::there is also [http://farm1.static.flickr.com/87/282300606_994493cc8e.jpg?v=0 this. which i think is not only really nice, but cc-by-sa-2.0 ;) --[[User:Kaini|Kaini]] 03:10, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
*:::Those are good, but I don't think there's actually any space for a photo at the start of the article. If you look at other music genre articles (including good and featured articles) they just have an infobox like this one does.[[User:P4k|P4k]] 03:27, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
*::::That's no reason not to start a new precedent :) Then again, i fyou think it'd look worse...I dunno, I'd like it that way. [[User talk:Dihydrogen Monoxide|<font color=#12A434>'''Dihydrogen Monoxide'''</font>]] <sup>[[Portal:Music of Australia|♫]]</sup> 06:30, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
*Should "Dubstep" be capitalised? (eg. "Interest in dubstep grew further...")
*:I can set this one straight, [[WP:MOS-CL#Musical genres|nope]]. - <font face="Trebuchet MS">[[User:Zeibura|Zeibura]]</font> <sup>([[User talk:Zeibura|Talk]])</sup> 17:57, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
*::Cool, thanks for telling me that. [[User talk:Dihydrogen Monoxide|<font color=#12A434>'''Dihydrogen Monoxide'''</font>]] <sup>[[Portal:Music of Australia|♫]]</sup> 07:50, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
*"(click to enlarge)" - Not needed, that's fairly self explanatory
*:{{done}}
*Nice audio! :) Just make sure not to have too many...2 nonfree should be fine
*[[:Image:Skream1.jpg]] and [[:Image:Mala(dmystikz).jpg]] could/should be on Commons.
*:working on it --[[User:Kaini|Kaini]] 02:36, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
*::{{done}}!
*There are a few redlinks which don't look too nice...create or remove.
*"(who has also included Dubstep tracks in his sets)[47] and included on a mix" - Should be a comma between the closing bracket and the ref.
*:{{done}}
*I don't think that many external links are needed, see [[WP:EL]].
*:I've added {{tls|nomorelinks}} to the top of the section, as there have been a lot of extra links being added and removed for not being particularly useful. All the links in the list at the moment are relevant tho, so I wouldn't know where to start if we really have to thin it all down. - <font face="Trebuchet MS">[[User:Zeibura|Zeibura]]</font> <sup>([[User talk:Zeibura|Talk]])</sup> 17:57, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
*::In that case they may need better descriptions - "Mary Anne Hobbs" doesn't really tell you much... [[User talk:Dihydrogen Monoxide|<font color=#12A434>'''Dihydrogen Monoxide'''</font>]] <sup>[[Portal:Music of Australia|♫]]</sup> 07:50, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
*:::It might make sense to remove Tempa since Wikipedia has an article about them.[[User:P4k|P4k]] 03:35, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
[[User talk:Dihydrogen Monoxide|<font color=#12A434>'''Dihydrogen Monoxide'''</font>]] <sup>[[Portal:Music of Australia|♫]]</sup> 08:17, 28 November 2007 (UTC)


The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic [[User:AndyZ/peerreviewer|javascript program]], and might not be applicable for the article in question.
Meanwhile, the detachment of rebels from Tennessee had rounded Sublett Point and was riding parallel with the other band from Potts Hollow. In all, the combined rebels would number about fifty men, far outnumbering the small detachment of seven. The rebels from Potts Hollow had reached another split in the river called Esslinger Island and was closing in on the Federals from the west, cutting off their escape route around the base of Keel Mountain. The larger group of rebels was only several hundred yards behind and gaining fast. The Lieutenant shouted for his men to ride straight up the mountain as far as they could then dismount and form a defensive position at the top. Maybe some Federal troops could hear gunshots from the other side and come to their rescue. As the Federals rode into the trees and started up the steep slope of the mountain, the guerillas opened fire and bullets whistled through the limbs of the winter bare trees.
*Per [[Wikipedia:Only make links that are relevant to the context|Wikipedia:Context]] and [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates and numbers)|Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates)]], months and days of the week generally should not be linked. Years, decades, and centuries can be linked if they provide [[WP:CONTEXT|context]] for the article.<sup>[[User:AndyZ/G#contxt|[?]]]</sup>
*If there is not a [[WP:IT|free use]] image in the top right corner of the article, please try to find and include one.<sup>[[User:AndyZ/G#leadimg|[?]]]</sup>
*Per [[Wikipedia:Only make links that are relevant to the context|Wikipedia:Context]] and [[Wikipedia:Build the web]], years with full dates should be linked; for example, link [[January 15]], [[2006]].<sup>[[User:AndyZ/G#linkdate|[?]]]</sup>
*As done in [[WP:FOOTNOTE]], footnotes usually are located right after a punctuation mark (as recommended by the [[The Chicago Manual of Style|CMS]], but not mandatory), such that there is no space in between. For example, ''the sun is larger than the moon [2].'' is usually written as ''the sun is larger than the moon.[2]''<sup>[[User:AndyZ/G#footspace|[?]]]</sup>
*Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of [[WP:WIAFA|Wikipedia's best work]]. See also [[User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a]].<sup>[[User:AndyZ/G#copyedit|[?]]]</sup>
You may wish to browse through [[User:AndyZ/Suggestions]] for further ideas. Thanks, [[User talk:Dihydrogen Monoxide|<font color=#12A434>'''Dihydrogen Monoxide'''</font>]] <sup>[[Portal:Music of Australia|♫]]</sup> 08:17, 28 November 2007 (UTC)


== Dubstep news service ==
One lucky bullet found the back of a trooper and he and his horse plunged heavily to the ground. Another found the back of the pack mule's hind leg and he dropped to the ground head first against a tree trunk. There was a loud pop and the mule lay still with a broken neck. The young trooper who was leading the mule dismounted and quickly cut the bands that held the strongboxes and opened the boxes retrieving the two bags of gold coins. They were very heavy but he grabbed them with all of his strength and started dragging them as he struggled toward the top. Most of the other horses had stopped and the remaining Union troopers were making their way to the top when the rebel guerillas came through the edge of the woods and started up the incline on foot. Bullets were flying everywhere from both sides. Two rebels dropped in their tracks but the Federals were so outnumbered they turned and ran for their lives through the woods with the rebels close on their heels. The young Union trooper with the bags of coins took a bullet through the neck and fell mortally back into a deep depression. Both he and the leather bags buried deep into the pile of fallen leaves at the bottom of the ditch, partially hiding them.
Most of the guerillas had now reached the top in pursuit of the fleeing Federals, all but Jeremiah McCain who had seen the young soldier fall. He cautiously approached the deep ditch and peered over the edge. He spotted a boot sticking out of the leaves and crawled down to find the dead soldier and the leather bags. When he opened the bags, he gasp with amazement as the reflection of the sun hit the soft yellow color of the gold and reflected the bright yellow brilliance into his face. Before him, lay a fortune in gold coins. As in most cases of treasure, greed immediately took over and McCain decided to hide the bags and come back later to bury them. He carried the bags out of the depression and moved further up the slope where he found another depression with some rocks covering a small deep hole. He thought he might be near the top. He moved the rocks and stuffed the bags in the hole then covered them back up with rocks and leaves. In front of him, further up the slope, was a large oak tree so he paced off the distance between his buried gold and the base of the tree. The distance was exactly seventy-six paces and he knew he could easily remember this. With a big grin on his face, he walked up the slope to rejoin his comrades chasing the Federals. Most of the guerillas had now reached the top in pursuit of the fleeing Federals, all but Jeremiah McCain who had seen the young soldier fall.


If you are interested in keeping up with the latest news in the Dubstep area, Popround runs a regularly updated service pointing to latest Dubstep news/blog posts:
Only two Federal troopers escaped that day and got back to their lines and then on to Huntsville to tell their story. General Mitchell was furious with the loss of the gold and sent several reinforced scouting parties back to the mountain to search for the gold and any rebels he could find. The guerillas had long disappeared back into the mountains and although the Union searchers found the dead mule and trooper in the ditch, they could not find the gold shipment. They scoured the fields, the river, and the entire mountain but the gold had simply disappeared. Finally, they assumed the gold had been captured by Confederates and things finally settled down. Soon after, General Mitchell was relieved of command and assigned to another command in Hilton Head, South Carolina where he contracted yellow fever and died a few months later.


[http://www.popround.com/author/dubstep-news/ Popround Dubstep News]
About the same time, Jeremiah McCain and his band were surprised up near New Market by a large force of Union cavalry supporting an infantry regiment. In the ensuing battle, McCain caught a Union slug in the stomach and like most belly wounds of the Civil War, it was a horrible, untreatable wound and a painful and slow way to die. From this bad wound, McCain got an infection and a severe fever and became delirious toward the end. One of his captured comrades was bending over the dying McCain when he tried to relate the story of the hidden gold but in his delirious state, he did not make too much sense and the young guerilla had trouble understanding the part where it was buried. Apparently McCain had related part of the story to someone else prior to his wound because it is from this unknown person the rest of this legend was eventually revealed. This legend is relatively unknown because those who have heard the story have probably remained quiet because of their own self-interest in searching for the gold.


== drama ==
Is this story true? Who knows? Maybe somewhere up on Keel Mountain, there is a hole filled with the long forgotten rotted remains of leather bags and a hole filled with loose gold Eagles. Perhaps it was just an illusion of an old dying man with fever. In any event, like most legends, it makes a good story.


[http://dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=39037 sigh] --[[User:Kaini|Kaini]] ([[User talk:Kaini|talk]]) 19:38, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
{{Alabama-geo-stub}}


=== rant ===
{{coord missing|United States}}


Look on the bright side, that thread contains useful criticisms and makes up for that [[Wikipedia:Peer review/Dubstep/archive1|lack of peer review]] we got here.
[[Category:Mountains of Alabama]]

This basically sums up why I'm on wikibreak at the moment. I'm going to do my honest job as a wikipedia administrator, and kindly remind everyone that [[WP:V]] and [[WP:RS]] must take priority in everything, basically what you said on the forum. I did do a few news searches for barefiles and couldn't find anything beyond one article which only mentioned it in passing, just listing the name and not saying anything about it or how it was any special. Searching for anything about breakstep doesn't seem particularly fruitful either.

There's a reason why, on another plane, I can't find many sources that talk about [[bassline house]] and niche apart from "it came from sheffield, people got stabbed, the club got closed down, oh yeah and heartbroken reached #2 and got played in cyprus", surrounded by loads of journalist baby talk. even I could add more to that article off my own head, and I'm not even from up north. The reason is that most "reliable sources" about new genres of music (e.g. what the national press and magazines write) just tend to say exactly the same thing.

In this article it's been a bit easier because of Martin Clark's pitchfork articles, which are invaluable pieces by a trusted music journalist who goes really deep into dubstep. Beyond that though, there isn't much else we can say unless we miraculously manage to convince the peeps at featured article review that any kind of consensus we can determine from the users of dubstepforum counts as a reliable source. Don't get me wrong, I wish we could, since I trust most of the users on that forum and because of these limitations, far more can be learned about dubstep reading those posts than any music magazine, newspaper or free encyclopedia. Any scholar would probably assert that both sources are equally (un)reliable. And once again, the fact that the content of the [[breakstep]] article was written by the same guy who we're citing as a reference yet copying some of it over would make this article unfeaturable due to original research just makes me want to skream.

Anyway, I've adapted one of Epithet's suggestions of listing some of the important websites in the lede, with reference to that article which lists barefiles and gutterbreakz in passing. Dubstepforum's already mentioned in a few of the references. The lede needs some more expansion anyways if we're ever going to get this featured. Also, the link to barefiles is still in the external links section. - <font face="Skia, Trebuchet MS">[[User:Zeibura|<font color="#0088FF">Zeibura</font>]]</font> <font color="#0088FF"><sup>( [[User talk:Zeibura|talk]] )</sup></font> 02:33, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

==Wookie==
Could he be one listed in 'estabilishing of sound' section? -- [[Special:Contributions/86.57.254.215|86.57.254.215]] ([[User talk:86.57.254.215|talk]]) 11:15, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
:His 'Dirty Beats (Wookie's Dark Dub Mix)' from 2001 seems pretty dubstep. -- [[Special:Contributions/86.57.254.215|86.57.254.215]] ([[User talk:86.57.254.215|talk]]) 11:17, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

== Thugstep ==

From the AfD for the article: This music "genre" appears to lack any reliable sources. All of the citations are either to unreliable sources (blogs/non-peer reviewed content) or to websites that do not explicitly mention "thugstep". Editors are welcome to google for themselves, but the limited results are not encouraging.

Please stop adding unsourced material and imaginary genres to Wikipedia for the purposes of advertising, anon. --[[User:Kaini|Kaini]] ([[User talk:Kaini|talk]]) 13:47, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
:Again, I will ask you to stop adding unsourced material to the article.
:Here are your sources-
# [http://www.blentwell.com/tags.php/thugstep a blog]
# [http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:K9l4_7ibOuoJ:www.dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php%3Ft%3D25750%26start%3D0%26postdays%3D0%26postorder%3Dasc%26highlight%3D%26sid%3Def7cb5a85658a8a6da32496251cbe2ff+thugstep&hl=ru&ct=clnk&cd=18&gl=by a thread on dubstepforum]
# [http://dirtystep.nfshost.com a blog]
# [http://thebamboozla.blogspot.com/2007/03/dubstep-x-dirty-south-thugstep.html a blog]
# [http://www.riddim.ca/ a dubstep site with no mention of "thugstep"]
# [http://www.myspace.com/discjoceynappy a myspace page]
# [http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:tdO5m1t-tYMJ:www.houston-imports.com/forums/showthread.php%3Ft%3D370543+thugstep&hl=ru&ct=clnk&cd=30&gl=by a forum thread]
# [http://www.discogs.com/release/1232632 a discogs page]
# [http://www.myspace.com/squincyjones a myspace page]
# [http://www.mashit.com/2008/03/22/dj-mix-squincy-jones-nintendub/ a blog]

:These are '''not notable sources''' --[[User:Kaini|Kaini]] ([[User talk:Kaini|talk]]) 20:19, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
:: You haven't explained [http://www.mashit.com/2008/03/22/dj-mix-squincy-jones-nintendub/ why this one is not a notable source]. Though you tried it hard. -- [[Special:Contributions/86.57.254.215|86.57.254.215]] ([[User talk:86.57.254.215|talk]]) 09:24, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
*Just a slight correction here. ''Sources'' don't have to be notable - they do, however, have to be ''[[WP:RS|reliable]]''. The Mashit.com link is not a reliable source, as it doesn't appear to have any guaranteed fact-checking or oversight. Additionally it doesn't even mention "thugstep". [[User:Wickethewok|Wickethewok]] ([[User talk:Wickethewok|talk]]) 22:32, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
::whoops, yeah that's what i meant :P i was a bit flustered when i posted that --[[User:Kaini|Kaini]] ([[User talk:Kaini|talk]]) 23:15, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
:::FWIW, the nintendub mix the anon editor linked is pretty good, a mix of nice bass, hiphop acapellas and 8bit sounds. still a genre of 1 or 2 artists, but at least an interesting one. --[[User:Kaini|Kaini]] ([[User talk:Kaini|talk]]) 23:45, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

== Children of men ==

First off, great article, guys. So much better than all the articles for other electronic genres. But the bit about Children of Men using dubstep. Either this page is wrong or [[Children of Men]] is, because it only has one Digital Mystikz track mentioned but here you've got kode9 and a few more too. I haven't seen the film so I don't know which is right. [[User:Michael Clarke, Esq.|Michael Clarke, Esq.]] ([[User talk:Michael Clarke, Esq.|talk]]) 04:30, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

:the film itself features anti-war dub by mystikz (one of my favourite dubstep tracks ever, incidentally). the soundtrack features additional material, as soundtracks are wont to do these days. that being;
:*Witness (1 Hope)- Roots Manuva (not dubstep, but sorta proto-dubstep, and a cracking track)
:*Backward- Kode9 And The Spaceape
:*Money Honey- Pressure Feat. Warrior Queen
:*Indian Stomp- Cyrus (Random Trio)
--[[User:Kaini|Kaini]] ([[User talk:Kaini|talk]]) 23:51, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

==Bad references, roots==
References to Steve Gurley, El-B as early promoters of DS are not working. Further searching The Wire site results no [http://www.thewire.co.uk/search/?keywords=el-b&page=search el-b] and a link to [http://www.thewire.co.uk/articles/347/ burial's interview] in case of gurley. Discogs search on those four (el-b, bias, gurley, jay) results only el-b and jay having original dubstep production, but all those four have a massive of remixes in dark garage era (1999-2002?). Some of them should be moved to dark garage -- [[Special:Contributions/82.209.225.33|82.209.225.33]] ([[User talk:82.209.225.33|talk]]) 11:13, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
:the references are to the '''printed''' copy of that month's wire, which contained an excellent primer on dubstep. it's not reproduced on the site, but it's a perfectly reliable and citable reference. --[[User:Kaini|Kaini]] ([[User talk:Kaini|talk]]) 11:34, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
::anyway references like those do not suit the article. -- [[User:Werwerwer11|Werwerwer11]] ([[User talk:Werwerwer11|talk]]) 11:44, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
:::i suggest you re-read wiki's policies on sources. --[[User:Kaini|Kaini]] ([[User talk:Kaini|talk]]) 11:48, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
:::: i suggest my balls in yer mouth - no page no reference -- [[Special:Contributions/82.209.225.33|82.209.225.33]] ([[User talk:82.209.225.33|talk]]) 12:10, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
::::: [[WP:CIVIL]], please. and printed sources are actually preferred to internet ones as they are less subject to link rot and are generally more stable. --[[User:Kaini|Kaini]] ([[User talk:Kaini|talk]]) 12:17, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

==that latest ref==
there's actually a genealogical diagram/chart (by martin clark, i presume) in the liner notes. a minor obsession of mine is getting it onto wiki - would be great in MANY articles, (even as a navbar or something!) but i really can't see a way of reproducing it whilst adhering to GFDL :( --01:03, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
:This diagram shows that dubstep's origins is a 2-step garage by producers like Steve Gurley and El-B. So actually it was dark garage.--[[User:True Steppa|True Steppa]] ([[User talk:True Steppa|talk]]) 11:34, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

== External links ==

Aren't there WAY to many external links? I understand that I was reverted when I removed all of them, but I almost figured it would almost be easier to add relevant links again instead of having to look through all of them :P Anyway, links to numerous blogs and radio stations? Why? As the warning says: "WIKIPEDIA IS NOT A COLLECTION OF LINKS". [[User:Aktsu|aktsu]] ([[User talk:Aktsu|talk]]) 00:07, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
:there's been fairly extensive discussion here (check the archive) and on dubstepforum regarding this. mainly people complaining their link has been removed. the thing about this genre is a lot of it is internet-based. and as such a lot of the evolution is documented by some key sites, such as dubstepforum (where a lot of the artists interact with the fans/scene on a daily basis), getdarker, and martin clark's indispensable blog and columns in pitchfork. linking to things like these fall well within [[WP:EL]]. tell you what, give me a day or two and i'll do what i can to trim things down a bit. --[[User:Kaini|Kaini]] ([[User talk:Kaini|talk]]) 00:46, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
== Bot report : Found duplicate references ! ==
In [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?useskin=monobook&title=Dubstep&redirect=no&oldid=230940415 the last revision I edited], I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :)
* "djmag" :
** <nowiki>{{cite journal|title=The Dubstep Explosion!|journal=DJ Mag|date=2007-08-01|first=Emma|last=Warren|coauthors=|volume=4|issue=46|pages=p32|id= |url=}}</nowiki>
** <nowiki>.</nowiki>
* "Clark3" :
** <nowiki>[http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/feature/40344/The_Month_In_The_Month_In_Grime_Dubstep Grime / Dubstep | Pitchfork<!-- Bot generated title -->]</nowiki>
** <nowiki>[http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/feature/10337-column-the-month-in-grime-dubstep Pitchfork Feature: Column: The Month in Grime / Dubstep<!-- Bot generated title -->]</nowiki>
[[User:DumZiBoT|DumZiBoT]] ([[User talk:DumZiBoT|talk]]) 22:34, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== "dark" garage ==

i am afraid i don't understand your reasoning here, anon. why limit the infobox to "dark" garage? show me an article called dark garage. i can certainly show you articles about [[2Step garage]] and [[UK Garage]], along with articles about [[Dub Music]] and [[Drum and Bass]]. your logic is flawed here - a closed-minded attitude to genre only limits the article. you are more than welcome to keep reverting me, i have given you my reasoning, which is logical, and i have no problem introducing arbitration to this dispute if needs be.

you have accused me of [[WP:OWN]] on my talk page; i simply want this article to be as good as it can be, and i cannot regard the <s>addition</s> substitution into the article of a sub-subgenre whose validity did not pass an AfD in the past to be constructive. --[[User:Kaini|Kaini]] ([[User talk:Kaini|talk]]) 00:37, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

''(replicating some discussion from talk pages)''

Hello, how about to check references in [[Dark 2step]] article. Most of them clearly state Dark 2step mutated into Dubstep. Or arent those references good enough for wikipedia? -- [[Special:Contributions/86.57.139.141|86.57.139.141]] ([[User talk:86.57.139.141|talk]]) 00:40, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
:anyway, please take this dispute to the talk page of the article, where i've expanded on my reasoning a bit. sorry if i come across as a bit grumpy, it's just that i'm sick of this argument. and as i have explained over there, no [[WP:OWN]] implied. --[[User:Kaini|Kaini]] ([[User talk:Kaini|talk]]) 00:40, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
:you will find that i have just [[WP:PROD]]ded the article you mention, as the references are poor and it definitely does not pass [[WP:N]] in my opinion. --[[User:Kaini|Kaini]] ([[User talk:Kaini|talk]]) 00:47, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
::Please discuss it in here. Thanks. First reference is from british "Pitchfork" magazine where it is stated that dark 2step is a genre of music by putting ("nu dark swing") alternative name to it to article. Second reference is from german "Groove" magazine where it is mentioned about "dark 2step sound" as precursor to dubstep. Third reference is from canadian "Kick" magazine where both grime and dark 2step are mentioned as direct precursors to dubstep, btw dark 2step is called a "genre" in the article. Fourth reference is from australian "Cyclic Defrost" magazine, where dark 2step sound is described. Why they dont suit wikipedia?
::So, please, stop unconstructive edits (like, adding nonsense template to article). By the way, there is no such thing as sub-subgenre. Thanks -- [[Special:Contributions/86.57.139.141|86.57.139.141]] ([[User talk:86.57.139.141|talk]]) 01:00, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
::::no, please discuss it on the talk page of the article, where anyone interested in the article can participate in the discussion. you are limiting the article. anyway from a musical point of view a lot of what [[Horsepower Productions]] did certainly could not be called 'dark'. indeed a lot of what [[Steve Gurley]] did might not be either. what you're doing is introducing, with subtlety, a [[WP:NPOV|point of view]] into the article. and that is not what wikipedia is about --[[User:Kaini|Kaini]] ([[User talk:Kaini|talk]]) 01:12, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::Well, as the discussion touches at least two articles (Dark 2step, Dubstep), it hardly should be discussed at "Dubstep". Thanks. And, as seeing you are inadequate in calling citation from electronic music magazines "as point of view", and putting nonsense templates to the article, i am cancelling this discussion. See [[WP:OWN]]. Thanks. -- 86.57.139.141 (talk) 01:16, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::well, anonymous editor, you are welcome to keep reverting me, and i shall do likewise whilst remaining within the letter of wiki policy, if perhaps not the spirit. and if this drags on, i have no problem with introducing arbitration into the process. i am sick of having this argument. --Kaini (talk) 01:23, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
reverted. see comment. besides anything else, i think that dark garage introduces a POV issue. you are discounting very influential producers like zed bias and horsepower in the specificity of your additions. surely it is better to leave the genre at garage/2step without making this even more specific? it's an infobox. --[[User:Kaini|Kaini]] ([[User talk:Kaini|talk]]) 02:23, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

== the infobox as it is at present ==

[[2-step garage]] and [[dark 2-step]] are both derivatives of [[UK garage]]. As I've stated, I'm perfectly willing to compromise (I'm interested in improving the 2-step article!) but seeing as UK garage is sort of progenitor of many of the rhythms and tropes of the sound, i really feel it needs to stay in the infobox. --[[User:Kaini|Kaini]] ([[User talk:Kaini|talk]]) 02:22, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

== genres in infoboxes ==

current editors of this article might find [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Music#Time to remove genre section on info box?|this discussion]] interesting. --[[User:Kaini|Kaini]] ([[User talk:Kaini|talk]]) 21:07, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

== references in the infobox..==

...should not be necessary. Everything in the infobox should be a very quick summary of prose in the article dictated by the field names, which should be referenced within the article where it's written as prose. currently this is not the case, there is no mention of "dark 2-step" in the article except in the infobox, and if it's as easily sourcable as it seems then there should be. - <font face="Trebuchet MS">[[User:Filelakeshoe|<font color="#60B">file</font><font color="#00B">lake</font>]][[User talk:Filelakeshoe|<font color="#0B0">shoe</font>]]</font> 23:09, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Revision as of 23:09, 10 October 2008

Good articleDubstep has been listed as one of the good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
November 27, 2007Good article nomineeListed
February 3, 2007Peer reviewReviewed
Current status: Good article

Template:Maintained

Was a new genre classification really needed?

Dubstep seems to be what Trip-Hop, Electronica, Ambient and IDM could sound like anytime. 83.77.192.92 (talk) 07:16, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

it's probably easier to think of this in terms of a continuum... dub/kraftwerk/grandmaster flash/loads of other stuff led to jungle which led to dnb and sorta simultaneously 2-step which eventually lead to early dubstep stuff. meanwhile the ragga/ragga jungle thing and dnb and idm and basic channel and scorn and all that other stuff was going on. and the pervasive dub under it all. so maybe it's apt to say the dubstep article captures a particular moment or phase in the continuum of bass-heavy electronic music. but it's definitely a notable one and therefore worthy of an article. --Kaini (talk) 03:51, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

sonar and the other european festivals

Is there a way to maybe have a section mentioning the huge back to back support dubstep has had from nearly all the of the major european festivals in both 2007 , 2008? dubstep has headlined at Glastonbury(two years in a row), Roskilde, Sonar (Two years in a row now !), Bestival, Life Festival , Outlook, Dour Festival, Massive Attack's Southbank Festival etc etc. There has been some press on some of these festivals as well. What do you guys think? Seckle (talk) 08:18, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

i reckon we could incorporate that info, sure. dunno about a new section, but there's lots of sourceable material out there for sure. i have a few days off work, might gather some linkage tomorrow. --Kaini (talk) 23:07, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Massive Attack at Meltdown (as an aside, howlett getting on the dubstep wagon? awww... :( )
Mary Ann, Skream, and Kode9 at Sonar 2007 -Kaini (talk) 23:52, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

thank you

Just read through all that Kaini and Zeibura have to go thru in maintaining this page. Thank you guys for all the long work. It's a thankless task. I think the page is looking more and more decent recently. All the basics are covered. Seckle (talk) 08:13, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

you're welcome! sadly zeibura's on a wikibreak (he was an excellent editor) and i haven't seen p4k in a while, so i was glad to see you show up. inspired me to do something other than typo-fixing and reverting vandalism. would love to get more folk from dubstepforum involved. --Kaini (talk) 23:10, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Fantastic article. Great read, very informative!Judyholliday (talk) 12:33, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

i would

Highly appreciate it, if my submission were allowed to remain up. Its in now way spam, and it was written out of the knowledge I've achieved due to being a dubstep fan living in south florida. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Smittysaint (talk • contribs) 22:44, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Please see wikipedia's policy on original research - all contributions must be verifiable and sourced, and your paragraphs were, like you just said, original research. If you can find sources to suggest the dubstep scene in south florida is in any way significant and verify what you've written, then add it back. Also, bear in mind Wikipedia is supposed to have global scope, so adding extensive information on regional scenes not significant to the development of the genre would ultimately overcrowd the article. - Zeibura (Talk) 00:13, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

well, they are booking awesome djs and as a writer who sees it with their own eyes, i feel that it definitely deserves a spot up there.

Smittysaint (Talk) —Preceding comment was added at 03:00, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

  • Well, I'm sure they're good DJs and all, but this sort of insider/unpublished information isn't verifiable and falls under the category of original research as Zeibura says above. As an encyclopedia, Wikipedia relies on secondary sources for information. Wickethewok 14:12, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

britney spears and subbass

there is, believe it or not, a track entitled 'freakshow' on britney's latest album which has a proper 'wobbler' subbassline. i was taken aback by it - you can find it on youtube pretty easily. i wonder if that's worth a mention or verifiable in some form other than shocked forum posts. the vocal disc of pinch's album is extremely commercial as well. this inevitable (just like d'n'b :() assimilation into the mainstream might be worth sticking in at the end in some form or other. not dissing that pinch album btw - i love it. --Kaini (talk) 00:48, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Wow this is ridiculous. It probably is worth mentioning, and I think it's verifiable, or at least it's verifiable that some critics have talked about the song in those terms. Here are some sources:

P4k (talk) 01:08, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

it's mental, isn't it? flavour du jour. i have a dread of burial's new disc becoming the coffeetable album of 2008. gonna have to think about how to phrase this (unless someone else wants a a crack). And the reviews of this album have me a bit intrigued, think i'm going to check it out. apparently Freescha produces a track on it as well...--02:18, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

GA passed!

And here are some minor suggestions;

  • A relevant image would be nice at the start of the article
    i'm considering asking the photographer if they would release this photo to CC as an opener. or maybe this. opinions? also, GA! can i get a rewind on that one? --Kaini 02:32, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
    there is also [http://farm1.static.flickr.com/87/282300606_994493cc8e.jpg?v=0 this. which i think is not only really nice, but cc-by-sa-2.0 ;) --Kaini 03:10, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
    Those are good, but I don't think there's actually any space for a photo at the start of the article. If you look at other music genre articles (including good and featured articles) they just have an infobox like this one does.P4k 03:27, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
    That's no reason not to start a new precedent :) Then again, i fyou think it'd look worse...I dunno, I'd like it that way. Dihydrogen Monoxide ♫ 06:30, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Should "Dubstep" be capitalised? (eg. "Interest in dubstep grew further...")
    I can set this one straight, nope. - Zeibura (Talk) 17:57, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
    Cool, thanks for telling me that. Dihydrogen Monoxide ♫ 07:50, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
  • "(click to enlarge)" - Not needed, that's fairly self explanatory
     Done
  • Nice audio! :) Just make sure not to have too many...2 nonfree should be fine
  • Image:Skream1.jpg and Image:Mala(dmystikz).jpg could/should be on Commons.
    working on it --Kaini 02:36, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
     Done!
  • There are a few redlinks which don't look too nice...create or remove.
  • "(who has also included Dubstep tracks in his sets)[47] and included on a mix" - Should be a comma between the closing bracket and the ref.
     Done
  • I don't think that many external links are needed, see WP:EL.
    I've added {{subst:nomorelinks}} to the top of the section, as there have been a lot of extra links being added and removed for not being particularly useful. All the links in the list at the moment are relevant tho, so I wouldn't know where to start if we really have to thin it all down. - Zeibura (Talk) 17:57, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
    In that case they may need better descriptions - "Mary Anne Hobbs" doesn't really tell you much... Dihydrogen Monoxide ♫ 07:50, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
    It might make sense to remove Tempa since Wikipedia has an article about them.P4k 03:35, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Dihydrogen Monoxide ♫ 08:17, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.

You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Dihydrogen Monoxide ♫ 08:17, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Dubstep news service

If you are interested in keeping up with the latest news in the Dubstep area, Popround runs a regularly updated service pointing to latest Dubstep news/blog posts:

Popround Dubstep News

drama

sigh --Kaini (talk) 19:38, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

rant

Look on the bright side, that thread contains useful criticisms and makes up for that lack of peer review we got here.

This basically sums up why I'm on wikibreak at the moment. I'm going to do my honest job as a wikipedia administrator, and kindly remind everyone that WP:V and WP:RS must take priority in everything, basically what you said on the forum. I did do a few news searches for barefiles and couldn't find anything beyond one article which only mentioned it in passing, just listing the name and not saying anything about it or how it was any special. Searching for anything about breakstep doesn't seem particularly fruitful either.

There's a reason why, on another plane, I can't find many sources that talk about bassline house and niche apart from "it came from sheffield, people got stabbed, the club got closed down, oh yeah and heartbroken reached #2 and got played in cyprus", surrounded by loads of journalist baby talk. even I could add more to that article off my own head, and I'm not even from up north. The reason is that most "reliable sources" about new genres of music (e.g. what the national press and magazines write) just tend to say exactly the same thing.

In this article it's been a bit easier because of Martin Clark's pitchfork articles, which are invaluable pieces by a trusted music journalist who goes really deep into dubstep. Beyond that though, there isn't much else we can say unless we miraculously manage to convince the peeps at featured article review that any kind of consensus we can determine from the users of dubstepforum counts as a reliable source. Don't get me wrong, I wish we could, since I trust most of the users on that forum and because of these limitations, far more can be learned about dubstep reading those posts than any music magazine, newspaper or free encyclopedia. Any scholar would probably assert that both sources are equally (un)reliable. And once again, the fact that the content of the breakstep article was written by the same guy who we're citing as a reference yet copying some of it over would make this article unfeaturable due to original research just makes me want to skream.

Anyway, I've adapted one of Epithet's suggestions of listing some of the important websites in the lede, with reference to that article which lists barefiles and gutterbreakz in passing. Dubstepforum's already mentioned in a few of the references. The lede needs some more expansion anyways if we're ever going to get this featured. Also, the link to barefiles is still in the external links section. - Zeibura ( talk ) 02:33, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Wookie

Could he be one listed in 'estabilishing of sound' section? -- 86.57.254.215 (talk) 11:15, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

His 'Dirty Beats (Wookie's Dark Dub Mix)' from 2001 seems pretty dubstep. -- 86.57.254.215 (talk) 11:17, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Thugstep

From the AfD for the article: This music "genre" appears to lack any reliable sources. All of the citations are either to unreliable sources (blogs/non-peer reviewed content) or to websites that do not explicitly mention "thugstep". Editors are welcome to google for themselves, but the limited results are not encouraging.

Please stop adding unsourced material and imaginary genres to Wikipedia for the purposes of advertising, anon. --Kaini (talk) 13:47, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Again, I will ask you to stop adding unsourced material to the article.
Here are your sources-
  1. a blog
  2. a thread on dubstepforum
  3. a blog
  4. a blog
  5. a dubstep site with no mention of "thugstep"
  6. a myspace page
  7. a forum thread
  8. a discogs page
  9. a myspace page
  10. a blog
These are not notable sources --Kaini (talk) 20:19, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
You haven't explained why this one is not a notable source. Though you tried it hard. -- 86.57.254.215 (talk) 09:24, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Just a slight correction here. Sources don't have to be notable - they do, however, have to be reliable. The Mashit.com link is not a reliable source, as it doesn't appear to have any guaranteed fact-checking or oversight. Additionally it doesn't even mention "thugstep". Wickethewok (talk) 22:32, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
whoops, yeah that's what i meant :P i was a bit flustered when i posted that --Kaini (talk) 23:15, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
FWIW, the nintendub mix the anon editor linked is pretty good, a mix of nice bass, hiphop acapellas and 8bit sounds. still a genre of 1 or 2 artists, but at least an interesting one. --Kaini (talk) 23:45, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Children of men

First off, great article, guys. So much better than all the articles for other electronic genres. But the bit about Children of Men using dubstep. Either this page is wrong or Children of Men is, because it only has one Digital Mystikz track mentioned but here you've got kode9 and a few more too. I haven't seen the film so I don't know which is right. Michael Clarke, Esq. (talk) 04:30, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

the film itself features anti-war dub by mystikz (one of my favourite dubstep tracks ever, incidentally). the soundtrack features additional material, as soundtracks are wont to do these days. that being;
  • Witness (1 Hope)- Roots Manuva (not dubstep, but sorta proto-dubstep, and a cracking track)
  • Backward- Kode9 And The Spaceape
  • Money Honey- Pressure Feat. Warrior Queen
  • Indian Stomp- Cyrus (Random Trio)

--Kaini (talk) 23:51, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Bad references, roots

References to Steve Gurley, El-B as early promoters of DS are not working. Further searching The Wire site results no el-b and a link to burial's interview in case of gurley. Discogs search on those four (el-b, bias, gurley, jay) results only el-b and jay having original dubstep production, but all those four have a massive of remixes in dark garage era (1999-2002?). Some of them should be moved to dark garage -- 82.209.225.33 (talk) 11:13, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

the references are to the printed copy of that month's wire, which contained an excellent primer on dubstep. it's not reproduced on the site, but it's a perfectly reliable and citable reference. --Kaini (talk) 11:34, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
anyway references like those do not suit the article. -- Werwerwer11 (talk) 11:44, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
i suggest you re-read wiki's policies on sources. --Kaini (talk) 11:48, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
i suggest my balls in yer mouth - no page no reference -- 82.209.225.33 (talk) 12:10, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
WP:CIVIL, please. and printed sources are actually preferred to internet ones as they are less subject to link rot and are generally more stable. --Kaini (talk) 12:17, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

that latest ref

there's actually a genealogical diagram/chart (by martin clark, i presume) in the liner notes. a minor obsession of mine is getting it onto wiki - would be great in MANY articles, (even as a navbar or something!) but i really can't see a way of reproducing it whilst adhering to GFDL :( --01:03, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

This diagram shows that dubstep's origins is a 2-step garage by producers like Steve Gurley and El-B. So actually it was dark garage.--True Steppa (talk) 11:34, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

External links

Aren't there WAY to many external links? I understand that I was reverted when I removed all of them, but I almost figured it would almost be easier to add relevant links again instead of having to look through all of them :P Anyway, links to numerous blogs and radio stations? Why? As the warning says: "WIKIPEDIA IS NOT A COLLECTION OF LINKS". aktsu (talk) 00:07, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

there's been fairly extensive discussion here (check the archive) and on dubstepforum regarding this. mainly people complaining their link has been removed. the thing about this genre is a lot of it is internet-based. and as such a lot of the evolution is documented by some key sites, such as dubstepforum (where a lot of the artists interact with the fans/scene on a daily basis), getdarker, and martin clark's indispensable blog and columns in pitchfork. linking to things like these fall well within WP:EL. tell you what, give me a day or two and i'll do what i can to trim things down a bit. --Kaini (talk) 00:46, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Bot report : Found duplicate references !

In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :)

  • "djmag" :
    • {{cite journal|title=The Dubstep Explosion!|journal=DJ Mag|date=2007-08-01|first=Emma|last=Warren|coauthors=|volume=4|issue=46|pages=p32|id= |url=}}
    • .
  • "Clark3" :
    • [http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/feature/40344/The_Month_In_The_Month_In_Grime_Dubstep Grime / Dubstep | Pitchfork<!-- Bot generated title -->]
    • [http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/feature/10337-column-the-month-in-grime-dubstep Pitchfork Feature: Column: The Month in Grime / Dubstep<!-- Bot generated title -->]

DumZiBoT (talk) 22:34, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

"dark" garage

i am afraid i don't understand your reasoning here, anon. why limit the infobox to "dark" garage? show me an article called dark garage. i can certainly show you articles about 2Step garage and UK Garage, along with articles about Dub Music and Drum and Bass. your logic is flawed here - a closed-minded attitude to genre only limits the article. you are more than welcome to keep reverting me, i have given you my reasoning, which is logical, and i have no problem introducing arbitration to this dispute if needs be.

you have accused me of WP:OWN on my talk page; i simply want this article to be as good as it can be, and i cannot regard the addition substitution into the article of a sub-subgenre whose validity did not pass an AfD in the past to be constructive. --Kaini (talk) 00:37, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

(replicating some discussion from talk pages)

Hello, how about to check references in Dark 2step article. Most of them clearly state Dark 2step mutated into Dubstep. Or arent those references good enough for wikipedia? -- 86.57.139.141 (talk) 00:40, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

anyway, please take this dispute to the talk page of the article, where i've expanded on my reasoning a bit. sorry if i come across as a bit grumpy, it's just that i'm sick of this argument. and as i have explained over there, no WP:OWN implied. --Kaini (talk) 00:40, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
you will find that i have just WP:PRODded the article you mention, as the references are poor and it definitely does not pass WP:N in my opinion. --Kaini (talk) 00:47, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
Please discuss it in here. Thanks. First reference is from british "Pitchfork" magazine where it is stated that dark 2step is a genre of music by putting ("nu dark swing") alternative name to it to article. Second reference is from german "Groove" magazine where it is mentioned about "dark 2step sound" as precursor to dubstep. Third reference is from canadian "Kick" magazine where both grime and dark 2step are mentioned as direct precursors to dubstep, btw dark 2step is called a "genre" in the article. Fourth reference is from australian "Cyclic Defrost" magazine, where dark 2step sound is described. Why they dont suit wikipedia?
So, please, stop unconstructive edits (like, adding nonsense template to article). By the way, there is no such thing as sub-subgenre. Thanks -- 86.57.139.141 (talk) 01:00, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
no, please discuss it on the talk page of the article, where anyone interested in the article can participate in the discussion. you are limiting the article. anyway from a musical point of view a lot of what Horsepower Productions did certainly could not be called 'dark'. indeed a lot of what Steve Gurley did might not be either. what you're doing is introducing, with subtlety, a point of view into the article. and that is not what wikipedia is about --Kaini (talk) 01:12, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
Well, as the discussion touches at least two articles (Dark 2step, Dubstep), it hardly should be discussed at "Dubstep". Thanks. And, as seeing you are inadequate in calling citation from electronic music magazines "as point of view", and putting nonsense templates to the article, i am cancelling this discussion. See WP:OWN. Thanks. -- 86.57.139.141 (talk) 01:16, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
well, anonymous editor, you are welcome to keep reverting me, and i shall do likewise whilst remaining within the letter of wiki policy, if perhaps not the spirit. and if this drags on, i have no problem with introducing arbitration into the process. i am sick of having this argument. --Kaini (talk) 01:23, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

reverted. see comment. besides anything else, i think that dark garage introduces a POV issue. you are discounting very influential producers like zed bias and horsepower in the specificity of your additions. surely it is better to leave the genre at garage/2step without making this even more specific? it's an infobox. --Kaini (talk) 02:23, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

the infobox as it is at present

2-step garage and dark 2-step are both derivatives of UK garage. As I've stated, I'm perfectly willing to compromise (I'm interested in improving the 2-step article!) but seeing as UK garage is sort of progenitor of many of the rhythms and tropes of the sound, i really feel it needs to stay in the infobox. --Kaini (talk) 02:22, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

genres in infoboxes

current editors of this article might find this discussion interesting. --Kaini (talk) 21:07, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

references in the infobox..

...should not be necessary. Everything in the infobox should be a very quick summary of prose in the article dictated by the field names, which should be referenced within the article where it's written as prose. currently this is not the case, there is no mention of "dark 2-step" in the article except in the infobox, and if it's as easily sourcable as it seems then there should be. - filelakeshoe 23:09, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

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