Talk:James Hansen

The Mirror Effect

Hansen claims the government has been editing his work, but that is exactly what he's been doing to anyone who disagrees with his doomsday theory. Ironically, he and his supporters have been going out of their way to discredit anyone who is skepitcal of his work. unsigned contribution by 63.231.72.96 at 00:14, 24 October 2006

How do you propose to improve the article? rewinn 03:48, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Article Bias

There are several highly biased remarks in this article.

"He is a vocal critic of the Bush Administration's ideology on climate change."

In this context, *Ideology* implies that all the facts are on only one side of the issue. I suggest using *position* instead.

"Opposing Greenhouse Skeptics" "He lists a number of areas where he disagrees with the global warming skeptic"

And similar comments. Granted *skeptic* is the term Dr. Hansen uses to try and undermine his opponents - but it is really name calling, and, as such, is a form of bias. Dr. Hansen himself is just as skeptical of the opposite side.

Remember, if other scientists were not trying to prove the other side of the theory, then this would be a religion - science requires that both points of view be investigated.

Using terms like "greenhouse gas theory opponents" would be better.

Of course, if it is a quote it must not be changed.

Remember, the antropogenic global warming theory is still not proved. At best, even if Dr. Hansen is correct, it will take over 200 years to prove climate change simply because any changes over a shorter time period are just weather.

Q Science 09:16, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

The word skeptic is NPOV and accurate. A skeptic is one who disbelieves, which is the case for Global Warming Skeptics. In science, no theory is ever completely proven since science by definition is always open to contrary data. The statement "it will take over 200 years to prove climate change simply because any changes over a shorter time period are just weather" is simply false. rewinn 17:25, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't understand why some interesting facts about Hansen were omitted, thereby making this article highly biased and hagiographical? James Hansen asserted before the US Congress 1988 that until the end of Century temeprature will rise 0.3 degrees and sea level about three feet (temperature rose o,1 degree and sea level maybe 1 cm!). Further, he predicted that sea level will rise in the next century 50 m, and than corrected himself, decreasing prediction at 10 m. Why do you conceal from readers those very interesting facts? Also, highly biased and partisan is description of his dispute with Bush administration on so called censoring. Why didn't you mention that Hansen was on pay roll of Heinz foundation, run by Tereza Heinz, wife of Jim Kerry, in the very moment he atacked Bush environment policy, a couple of weeks before elections 2004? --Trapatoni 18:16, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

If you supply some links here on the talk page, we can discuss your proposed revisions. Until then, there's nothing to talk about. I would suggest that you stop blanking the article; it doesn't help. rewinn 23:18, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

You wanted to say that editor didn't know (and don't know now) that Hansen was on Heinz foundation's payroll (received $250 000 grant from them)? Just compare silence about this fact with extensive coverage of Lindzen's ties with fossil fuel industry. NPOV? It took me less than two minuts of googling to find the link for this http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=%5CPolitics%5Carchive%5C200603%5CPOL20060323a.html. If you request, I could provide you with much more material to correct this highly biased article on Hansen.--Trapatoni 08:27, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

In the very same article I linked you had one more interesting citation, showing Hansen agreed with Schneider in justifying political misuse of science in order to improve "political awareness" of the public: "Emphasis on extreme scenarios may have been appropriate at one time, when the public and decision-makers were relatively unaware of the global warming issue." "Now, however, the need is for demonstrably objective climate-forcing scenarios consistent with what is realistic under current conditions." It is possible to insert additional sentence or paragraph in th earticle, noting that oponents charge that Hansen justifies political misuse of science, adding above citation in main text. It is also possible to add a link towards some of the Michaels' papers or articles claiming Hansens's inconsistencies about scientifical issues. If you say that you have no sources I shall again provide you with links.--Trapatoni 09:20, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

You raise a number of points

• A Heinz foundation grant.
  • You have offered no reputable link for the claim; "cnsnews.com" appears to be a blog. If the grant really exists, please find a link to it; best of course would be the foundation's own site.
  • What is notable about such a grant? If you are going to list every grant the fellow won, the article will probably be very long
  • How would mentioning such a grant improve the article, and where would you put the content? Please specify.
• Political misuse of science.
  • Again, please supply a reputable link.
  • The entire quote supports the concept that Hansen supports "demonstrably objective climate-forcing scenarios consistent with what is realistic under current conditions". How is that political misuse of science?
  • Please note that the word "may" in the first part of the quote does not support your claim that Hansen agrees with Schneider. When a scientist uses "may" in such a context, it means that the scientist is not in that sentence offering an opinion on the issue. The quote does not support "political misuse of science"
• Since you wish to edit the article, it really is up to you to find reputable sources. Blanking the article is never a good idea rewinn 01:42, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Hansen received an award from the Heinz foundation. This is not a grant. It was in the late 90s. You could google it. [User:Eli Rabett]

Hansen said>Emphasis on extreme scenarios may have been appropriate at one time, when the public and decision-makers were relatively unaware of the global warming issue." "Now, however, the need is for demonstrably objective climate-forcing scenarios consistent with what is realistic under current conditions He admitted in first centence that previous scenarios were misuse of science. In the second centence he warns that now its time for more realistic models since politicians and public accepted agenda. So, maybe (this is your scientific "may") it was justified to use flawed and alarmists scenarios in the past, but not anymore because people already bought our story in the meantime.

Oh, how you are uniformed. You even don't know if Hansen received that grant from Heinz foundation. In the text that I linked he himself conceded that! Read careffully. HE HIMSELF CONCEDED. But, ok, you don't believe him. So, I again googled for a minute and voila, what I found. Acceptance speach of James Hansen, posted on official website of Heinz foundation. http://www.heinzawards.net/speechDetail.asp?speechID=6. Award was received, as you can see.

Mentioning this grant would improve the article in the same manner in which mentioning Lindzen's ties for fossil fluel industry improved article on him. Further, Hansen sharply critisized Bush, in capmaign 2004 and later accused his administration for censoring, and this controversy was covered in the article. Wouldn't be interesting and informing for readers to know that Hansen has a very close ties with democrats, and that even received $250 000 from them? Without this part, the story would not be complete (maybe this could undermine Hansen's moral posture, but we sloudn't care about this, I hope...).

I didn't know that blogs are not reputable sources. I have found on climate topics on wiki a large number of blogs linked as reputable sources, specially realclimate.org. Maybe you want to suggerst that some blogs are reputable while the other ones are not?--Trapatoni 16:17, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

• Concerning the grant: you now say you have sourced to the website of the grantor. Congratulations! That would be the sort of scholarship that wikipedia intends! Now, how would you put it into the article in a useful way? Remember, top scientists get a lot of grants from a lot of people, so you will want to review the policy on undue weight
• Concerning blogs, please read at the top of this talk page the following:

This article must adhere to the policy on biographies of living persons. Controversial material of any kind that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately,

If you follow the link "poorly sourced" you will learn why blogs are not appropriate sources in general.

• Concerning the "Emphasis" quote: your characterization of Hansen's attitudes flies in the face of the plain text; it is not an admission of anything.
• Concerning your ad hominem remarks: they don't improve the article. I have treated you with respect, and hope you would do the same if you wish the respect to continue. rewinn 03:20, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

JR2020 comments

I agree with Trapatoni. This article strikes me as very biased. I agree that the section “Opposing Greenhouse Skeptics” would be better named “Greenhouse Opponents”. Though it is true that skepticism is part and parcel of good science, the global warming debate has, unfortunately, become highly politicized. Proponents of the anthropogenic GHG global warming theory routinely use the terms ‘skeptic’ and ‘denier’ as pejoratives when speaking to less scientifically literate political adherents as a way of attacking and marginalizing opponents.

This bias is also clearly present in the block quote from Hansen. The quote would be equally true, but oppositely biased, if the term “skeptics” was replaced by “proponents”. It is suggested that this quote block be removed entirely.

Furthermore, in reading the above discussion I get the impression that Trapatoni has been very “respectful”. Rewinn’s suggestion that he has behaved otherwise is undeserved. JR2020 18:58, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

• Concerning article bias: you offer no evidence. An editor's opinion is not evidence
• Concerning "Skeptics": the word is not perjorative
• Concerning "respectfulness": the phrase "Oh, how you are uniformed" is but one example of an ad hominem attack, since it concerns an editor rather than the article or the subject of the article. If I were to point out that the above is your only contribution to wikipedia so far, and that the only link on your talk page is to a singularly idiotic blog propounding the widely discreditted theory of the solar cycle theory of catatrophic global warming, that too would be an ad hominem attack. So I won't. rewinn 21:16, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Whoa!! Now there’s a rude introduction to the wild world of Wikipedia discussions! A few mild comments yield a nasty ad hominem outburst (cute denial notwithstanding.) Trapatoni’s 'disrespectful' remarks were the model of benign politeness by comparison.

But I suppose this is just one more example of how politicized global warming advocacy is doing damage to discourse on the subject not to mention damage to science in general.

But you’re right that “skeptic” is ordinarily not pejorative. In its proper scientific context skepticism is an indispensable virtue - every good scientist is a skeptic by nature and training. However, it is pejorative if the user intends it to be, as is all too common in the current highly politicized AGW debate. It’s kind of like “lawyer” isn’t pejorative - that is, unless it’s intended that way (Eg. “expletive expletive lawyer” - which those hostile to lawyers take to be triply redundant.)

You want evidence? Well, there’s lots of it, as I’m sure you’re aware. For example:

- Ellen Goodman’s recent piece in the Boston Globe (“...Let's just say that global warming deniers are now on a par with Holocaust deniers...”) epitomizes the ‘skeptic as pejorative’ mentality. I hardly think she would consider AGW skepticism a scientific virtue.

- The Hansen quote is another, much less extreme example. But then Hansen is a scientist and Goodman is just a demagogic journalist.

- Then, there’s your own obvious bias, made even clearer with your casual dismissal of the entire solar research community (including those at the Danish Centre for Sun Climate Research, The Max Planck Institute and CERN) as “widely discredited.” These scientists are attacked by AGW zealots simply for the sin of doing science that could lead to an ‘undesirable’ conclusion - that solar variation and not AGW is the primary driver of climate change - an intuitively reasonable idea from the get-go. Though much of their work is very promising, none of them would be so arrogant as to suggest any of climate science is “settled.”

JR2020 03:52, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

• I'm glad to see that my example has taught you how inappropriate ad hominem attacks may be. I hope you and Traptone will refrain in the future
• You may wish to use indenting to facilitate discussion threading
• Your Goodman quote does not use the word "skeptic" and therefore does not support your claim about the word "skeptic"
• Your claim about "my" obvious bias rests solely upon a purported dismisal of MPI and CERN data; however you don't point out where I have done so nor do you point out where MPI and CERN claim the solar cycle is more important than anthropogenic factor. To save you a little time, I will point out that of course there is data that the solar cycle impacts the earth's temparture (we would inhabit a chilly little ball without the Sun) but that cycle's impact on GCC is much much smaller than human-induced factors: neither MPI nor CERN dispute that.
• It's important to remember this is the James Hansen article, not the Global Warming article. Discussion of the latter topic belongs on the latter page. rewinn 16:09, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Your example. So, I point out your over-reaction to Trapatoni’s gentle tap and you assault me with a two-by-four to ‘teach me a lesson’. Nice.

Goodman quote. Please. Both you and I know that ‘skeptic’ and ‘denier’ are routinely conflated by AGW zealots. Again, do you really think Goodman’s ‘deniers’ excludes ‘skeptics’? Anyway, examples are plentiful - see here, here, here and here.

Science vs hype. I recommend that both you and Dr. Hansen view the documentary “The Great Global Warming Swindle” at YouTube. It’s full of scientifically credible ‘skeptics’ / ‘deniers’ / ‘heretics’ from the round the world (the IPCC too) concerned about the global warming hysteria being pumped by Al Gore, environmentalists and the media. Despite the inflammatory title it’s well done. JR2020 19:36, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Traptoni Comments

Concerning the grant - what we concluded? In the context of Hansen-Bush relationship you think the fact that Hansen have close ties with Bush's political oponents, including receiving $250 000 grant from them, is not important for your readers. So much about NPOV.

I described in my previous post how I think it could be possible and appropriate to include in the article materials I provided for you. Please read againg. If you don't want to include them because they crush your hagiography of Hansen, say that openly and we shall not waste our time anymore.

I apologize if you thought my remarks were ad hominem. I just was puzzled that you hadn't enough time to google half a minute to find out interesting data about Hansen's ties with democrats. All of that was commonly known and widely commented in the public, so I concluded that you intentionally omitted "inconvinient truth" in order to preserve your hagiographic picture of Hansen. If the articles on every single "sceptic" on wikipedia 9such as Lindzen include their funding, and most often their ties with fossil fuel industry, why article on Hansen shouldn't include similar information. Or you think that climate alrmists are people of "special kind"?

Your extreme bias is obvious also in refusing to quote Hasen about adopting "more realistic climate models" (since in the past we used to promote extreme scenarios and alarmist agenda).

Concerning poorly sourced claims you objected to me, in the Lindzen article on wiki there is only one newpaper text as a "source" for his alegged FF ties. What's the difference? Did you, per Lindzen's analogiam, would think I found reliable source if I cite some newspaper article on Hansen's Heinz connection? --Trapatoni 14:36, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

• About the grant: you haven't proposed how to update the article. It's not my job to do edits you think are important. If you want to list all Hansen's awards and grants, go ahead; just be NPOV about it
• As to googling: it is not my job to do research you think is important
• About "extreme bias": you have to distinguish between the article, which you claim is biased, and the individual contributors. If by "your extreme bias" you are referring to a particular contributor, whose only crime is to decline to make contributions you want, I'm afraid you need to reexam the edit history, and to re-read ad hominem
• As to the Hansen quote: you misquote him; as has been discussed above, he did not in that quote say he ever promoted extreme scenarios. This Talk page is not a blog; it is about improving the article; repeating an unsupported and near-libelous claim does not improve the article.
• As for a purported Lindzen article: (a) if you want that article to be considered in discussing this article, you need to link the article (again, it's not my job to do your citation work), and (b) if you don't like that article, go edit that article. rewinn 15:22, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Grant - I propose following: In the section Rewriting the science, you can include information that opponents say Hansen was motivated to confront Bush by his close ties with Democratic party officials, for example Al Gore and Jhon Kerry. Hansen critisized Bush many times, including presidential campaign 2004, three years after he received $250 000 grant from Heinz foundation run by Sernator Kerry's wife Tereza. In New York Times Hansen himself conceded that endorsing Kerry in that circumstances could harm his reputation reference my first link). You can link his speach on official website of Heinz foundation, and include first link I provided into external links. If I correctly understood, none of those you posted is not critical on Hansen. Isn't it litle biased? Further, I don't know why do you constantly talk about "all awards" Hansen received? We are talking about one specific award granted by foundation of Bush's main political opponents' wife. And we debate aboout this award in the context of his crititique of Bush. Conflict of interests, similar of one other climate scientists probably ahve that are funded by fossil fuel industry. Why it is not interesting and relevant for you is beyond me. Your silence only strenghten my doubts that political reasons are in question.

Quote - I challenge you to explain how I "misquoted" Hasnen? He doesn't say he promoted extreme scenarios, but praises scientific community for doing that, noting that that is not necessary anymore. If you choose to ignore elementary rules of logic and common sense and to deny obvious facts in order to preserve your hagiography of Hansen - go ahead, I cannot force you to show more intelectual honesty.

Extreme bias - how would you describe an article on controversial public person in which there is not one single critical note or reference or link, and in which some very inconvinient but publicly widely known and hotly debated facts are simply hidden? I thought you were author so I addressed to you personally. --Trapatoni 22:04, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

• Grant. You propose adding a claim that Hansen "confronted" Bush critics due to money from a grant, and to support this claim by evidencing the grant. This gives undue weight to the grant since (a) Hansen's attitude on global warming long preceeding the grant, (b) there is no evidence that Hansen has changed his attitude due to any grant, (c) mentioning one grant without mentioning at least the quantity of others he has received is a type specimen of undo weight.
• My motivations. Are not relevant to the article. Please use this Talk page to discuss the article
• Quote. Your ad hominem attack on me is duly noted. As to the quote itself, please quote where Hansen "praises scientific community" for having "promoted extreme scenarios". There is no such language there.
• Article Bias: See policy on biography of living persons, above. The mere fact that libelous charges are levelled against a person is insufficient reason to repeat them here. rewinn 19:38, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

OK. I achieve my goal. You clearly demonstrated bias and refuse to include any material that would endanger your hagiography of Hansen. I think it is sufficent for neutral observer to see how wikipedia in this context is completely partisan and unreliable source of information.

I wonder, whether you, as an author, have an obligation to defend some universal criteria held of authors in writing articles on wiki. If in many other cases of climate scientisits their funding or alegged funding is often cited as a reason to doubt their motives to hold peculiar scientific attitudes, why it would be any different with Hansen? Aren't many "sceptics" were sceptical long before they received any money from oil or other industries, just as Hansen was alarmist even before he received $250 000 from John Kerry's wife? Or you here are state within the state on wikipedia and have noting to do with standards that otherwise are paramount?

Citation> Emphasis on extreme scenarios may have been appropriate at one time, when the public and decision-makers were relatively unaware of the global warming issue." "Now, however, the need is for demonstrably objective climate-forcing scenarios consistent with what is realistic under current conditions' said Hansen. Why "emphasis on extreme scenarios" was justified when "public and decision makers" were not aware of global warming problem but not anymore? And what he meant by such an "emphasis", if not scientifically dishonest fabrication of unsound scary stories in order to indoctrinate public and politicians (Schneiderian "combination of honesty and efficiency")? I am very curious to see your esoteric interpretation of those two sentences which will show what he really wanted to say, and why my exoteric, commonsensial understanding was not correct. You failed thus far to give any different interpretaion.

I think that dialogue with religious fanatics writing hagiographies of saints and not biographies od living persons is not possible. Only problem is that such medieval fanatism here is dressed up in scientific neutrality. --Trapatoni 08:10, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I propose that you be more polite and give up this "medieval fanaticism" nonsense. Otherwise you're too unpleasant to talk to William M. Connolley 12:18, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. The poor fellow is just trolling now and I shan't feed it. rewinn 21:11, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Article on Hansen is hagiography, and his hagiographer refuse to include any facts, even they being in full accordance with NPOV, that undermine saints' noble posture. I am sorry if hearing that simple fact is so "unpleasant".--Trapatoni 15:55, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Ooh, you included information about Heinz prize. But without any link or explanation why that could be interesting or even worth of mentioning. You critisized me for pointing this particular award while he received many other. Why did you made the same mystake?

Aditionally, I have one citation to propose for inclusion in the section with Hansen citaions.Future global warming can be predicted much more accurately than is generally realized…we predict additional warming in the next 50 years of ¾ +/- 1/4ºC, a warming rate of 0.15ºC +/- 0.05ºC per decade. This is from publication Hansen, J.E., and M. Sato, 2001. Trends of measures climate forcing agents. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 98, 14778-14783. Isn't this interesting - Hansen thinks that even low end of IPCC projected temperature rise may be exaggerated? To add salt on injury, Hnsen in other article criticises IPCC for being "undully pesimistic" about future global warming and confirms his low projections of T rise of 0,75 degrees C in next 50 years! Link towards Hansen's article is here: http://www.sciam.com/media/pdf/hansen.pdf.

Those two citations and links I provided show that Hansen in science is not as alarmist as in the public and in ideological arena. I think that including this citation will improve the article by pointing out complexity of Hansen's attitude towards global warming. I can propose you link with usefull comments http://www.worldclimatereport.com/index.php/2004/10/28/blowing-your-own-whistle/, which covers some of the issues I discussed earlier on here, and you dealt with in the article - "censoring" and so on. --89.216.167.216 16:02, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Nothing should surprise the reader from our editor. After he vigourosly defended Hansen's support to scientific lying in public interest denying it was any disputable, he suddenly included note on this topic, but without citation, in the very same paragraph where citations of Hansen's alarmist mantras are given, from the very same paper in which he wrote sentence on lying. If that sentence doesn't mean what I asserted it meant and what every reasonable person could see easily, why our editor failed to provide us with this 'benign' citation directly, instead via link toward 30-page paper in which reader must find on his own some sentence or paragraph (he doesn't know actually what to look for) that substantiate phrase from the article that "HAnsen wrote on past usefullness of climete models" blah blah. Why such an effort is made to hide this citation, specially if we take into account that five or six other citations are given from the same Hansen's paper? I propose to editor not to be so affraid. If he really believes that I wasn't right in saying that by that sentence Hansen supported lying in public interest let him simply share this sentence with readership. Go ahead - give to readers the chance to read directly how professor Hansen sees calling of scientist.

Apart from this strange maneuver to hide the sentence on lying, it is interesting also that editor doesn't cite from the very same Hansen's paper forcast of very small future warming I reffered to in my previous post.

So, reader should be aware that his article is highly biased and even deceptive in many ways unless serious changes are made. --89.216.167.216 21:22, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Comments on Clean Up

Although James Hansen's views are a part of the controversy about global warming, this page should is not the global warming controversy page. This page should give the reader a better understanding of James Hansen and not the areas of disagreement between him and his critics. The comparing of views of global warming skeptics and James Hansen should be moved to the global warming controversy page.

Also there should be a quotation section with James Hansen's quotes and a citation for the source. Not only will this allow the reader to determine the source of these comments, but also the date as climate science is changing quickly as well as the truth of his comments.

--Id447 23:15, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Response to "An editor has expressed concern that this article or section may be unencyclopedic and should be deleted."

Dr. Hansen is not only a climate scientist but a public figure who has his critics, such as, Richard Lindzen and Michael Crichton, Patrick Michaels as noted on this page. This section addresses those concerns in way that does not require a scientific background.

The heading 'Opposing Greenhouse Skeptics' is incorrect since that section has nothing to indicate opposition to greenhouses. Does the author mean 'Opposing Global Warming Skeptics'? The 'Opposing Greenhouse Skeptics' section does very little to illuminate the life and works of James Hansen and should be deleted.

66.81.160.5 23:20, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Please see Wikipedia:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions

66.81.160.172 15:20, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Hocomd's additions

I don't believe this [1] is reasonable. If anywhere, it should go on global warming controversy William M. Connolley 17:24, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Article cleanup

Hello - this article was one suggested for cleanup. I've started fixing the references, but there are a few other things I would like to do. The 'publications' section and 'who is responsible...' sections should not be just large quotes - if no one minds, I'll change that.Hal peridol 02:08, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

...or I can just wait until someone else does it while I'm on the talk page :) Hal peridol 02:10, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

heh... Somebody needs to get rid of those butt-ugly boxed quotes, too. Raymond Arritt 02:33, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Usufruct & the Gorilla

Raymond says that there's no evidence that Hansen discovered usufruct in August 2007. Sure there is. In the referenced PDF of August 2007, he thanks a Jim Wine for schooling him in usufruct. By all means delete the quote as irrelevant or snide or misplaced but get yer facts straight. Vinny Burgoo 22:44, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Right you are. I didn't notice the acknowledgment at the end. As for irrelevant or snide, well... Raymond Arritt 22:54, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Might I suggest that if this is left in, some context is needed? I can't understand what point is being made here. Hal peridol 23:19, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Me neither. I doubt if one person in a hundred knows what "usufruct" is so context is necessary if it's to be left in. The tone of the material suggests its originator was poking fun at Hansen, which is not appropriate for a biographical article. Raymond Arritt 00:08, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree. The snippet either needs expanding or dumping. It doesn't serve any legitimate purpose as it stands. (Sorry about that. It was, er, late.) An expanded version would mention that in the last year or so Hansen has become more overtly political, his pronouncements on global warming have become more extreme, and his behaviour and language have been somewhat unusual for someone who is both a senior civil servant and a senior scientist (at least by British standards). In a public e-mail about the discovery of errors in the US temperature record, Hansen apologized for the language he had used in a private e-mail sent a few days earlier to journalists: it was "immoderate. It was not ad hominem, though." A few days later he used strange and immoderate language in a second public e-mail, complaining about "the infamy, the infamy of the captains of industry" (they've all got it in for me), "big fish, really big fish" who employ "court jesters" to "serve as a distraction, a distraction from usufruct" - so godnose what the language in the private e-mail was like. And this week he claimed that the temperature records for South America and Africa (which, for the first time, he acknowledged are "regions of exceptionally poor data") are all but irrelevant to the big picture of global warming: Hansen made his name incorporating the southern hemisphere into the global record and now he says that most of the land in that hemisphere is irrelevant. He really does seem to be going off the rails. Not that Wikipedia should say that. But something should perhaps be said about the politicization of US climatology under his leadership. I also reckon there should be some mention of the US temperature errors, of this week's forced (should have been automatic) disclosure of GISS's method of adjusting global surface-station records and of Hansen's, at best, undignified responses to these events. But that's just me. Perhaps that would be too political or personal for Wikipedia. Something does need to be done to the article, though. Hansen is both quoted as saying that climate alarmism is no longer justified and reported to have become more extreme in his predictions in recent months. That apparent contradiction needs explaining somehow. Can it be explained without mentioning the alleged worthlessness of the African and South American data? The slight errors in the US record? The inappropriate reluctance to release the adjustment code? Hansen's loathing of public scrutiny and of big business? His increasingly odd language? Dunno. Vinny Burgoo 13:31, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Most of that stuff would belong, if it does, under global warming or gossip. It may all be true, but it's not necessarily notable in re bio James Hansen rewinn 15:32, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Djovani thinks that...

I think that in the section Statements must be included a critique of IPCC scenario prof Hansen developed in article that is already linked http://naturalscience.com/ns/articles/01-16/ns_jeh.html. In that article Hansen among other things, says that "There are reasons to believe that the IPCC scenarios are unduly pessimistic. First, they ignore changes in emissions, some already underway, due to concerns about global warming. Second, they assume that true air pollution will continue to get worse, with O3 and CH4 and black carbon all greater in 2050 than in 2000. Third, they give short shrift to technology advances that can reduce emissions in the next 50 years…" and add that "current trends” growth rate of climate forcings…is at the low end of the IPCC range of 2-4W/m2. The IPCC scenario of 4 W/m2 requires a 4% per year exponential growth rate of CO2 emissions for 50 years and large growth of air pollution. The 4 W/m2 scenario yields dramatic climate change for the media to fixate upon, but it is implausible."

Such citations show that Hansen thinks the low end of IPCC projections is only justified. --Djovani 22:06, 12 September 2007 (UTC) F

Hansen's work on Global Cooling

I see several of you are fighting about including information on Dr. Hansen's possible support of Global Cooling back in the 70's. I agree that writing a program does not imply support. However, I have a problem with simply deleting the info because an "editorial in Investors Business Daily" isn't reliable enough - I agree that that is a bad reference, but a simple search found this September 19, 2007, Washington Times article which appears to be a reliable source. Unfortunately, I was not able to locate and read the original Science article - Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide and Aerosols: Effects of Large Increases on Global Climate - (because they want money to read it). Note that there is already a reference to it in Global cooling. At any rate, I think it is better to discuss the issue here than simply deleting edits. Q Science 00:57, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

You don't need to read the article -- all you need to do is to notice who the authors are (it's the old Rasool and Schneider article, for those who want to save a click). Notice especially who isn't an author of that article. Raymond Arritt 01:16, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Indeed. The latest version, apart from unfortunate grammar and lacking souce, tells us that Hansen's software was used to predict global cooling. This is about as relevant as "Gates's software was used bei the Hussein regime to prepare execution orders" in an article on Microsoft. Unless a stronger connection can be made, this is simply pointless. --Stephan Schulz 19:44, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

One source says that Hansen wrote a Washington Post article on the topic: "Global Warming Scientist Once Warned Of 'Ice Age'" Doug Ware - KUTV, Sep 22, 2007. There's no question that climate science has grown enormously in the last 36 years. And even modern scientists assert that aerosols have offset some of the warming that would have occurred otherwise. I think it would be better to include what we can find out about the 1971 or article to put it into context. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 19:47, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

...and the reliability of that source is about nil. They cannot even keep apart CO2 and aerosols. Having access to the alleged WaPo article (if it exists) would be useful indeed. And looking again at the WaTimes article above that may be the ultimate cause of all this: That article does not claim that the 1971 article is by Hansen, only that he "appears" in it - apparently a program he wrote for Venusian atmosphere analysis was taken by someone else and applied to Earth. Hum....--Stephan Schulz 19:51, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

The archive of WP issues that I have access to only goes back to 1987, so I can't track it down. If the work Hansen did was actually concerning Venus then we should mention that. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 20:39, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Hopefully this one will quietly die the death it deserves. Repeat after me "I must not believe things about science I read in newspapers unless corroborated by a reliable source". See http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2007/09/to_rasool.php for the gory details William M. Connolley 21:50, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

From my experience with matters like this, it is better to debunk an incorrect idea then to simply omit all reference to it. If omitted, helpful editors will keep trying to replace it. If it's more accurate, we should say something like, "An early climate model created by Hansen was used by other researchers in a 1971 paper that described the action of aerosols in atmospheric cooling." That would be better than igonoring the issue entirely. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 22:21, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, this is a totally non-notable issue that some partisans are trying to use to tar Hansen with. If its still around in a months time (which I don't believe and will put money on if you like) then we can debunk it in the article. This isn't wikinews William M. Connolley 22:27, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Either a month or five re-insertions, whichever comes first. Regardless of this recent editorial-page controversy, I'd be nice to get more info on his life and work prior to 2000. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 22:34, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Simply deleting references to Hansen's earlier work focusing on global cooling does not make this previous work disappear. Wiki community will keep working to stop this censorship. ObdediumObedium 02:03, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

As far as we could find out, Hansen's early work dealt with the amosphere of Venus. If you have useful sources showing something else, please present them. --Stephan Schulz 04:05, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

The first paper I'm aware of where he works on Earth's atmosphere is the 1974 Lacis and Hansen shortwave parameterization. As for the accusation of censorship, see Arritt's First Axiom here. Raymond Arritt 05:01, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

• I have been following this story via Anthony Watt's blog. I must say that as a scientist, I find Hansen's behavior in many ways to be questionable...refusing to make the details of his calculations public, making unannounced and undocumented changes to datasets that are relied on by other scientists, and so forth. However, on the issue of global cooling, he seems to be in the clear. I have uploaded the 1971 Wash Post story under fair use for the purpose of scholarly review and discussion at Image:Hansen Wash Post.pdf. It makes clear that Mansool used an atmosphere software model that Hansen developed for study of Venus and applied it to atmospheric aerosols on Earth. Thatcher131 21:17, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Rasool? If you're only reading AW you're probably getting a rather biased version. Updating of the T series is done constantly (obviously; otherwise people would complain it was out of date). The RC view is [2]. But for present purposes it seems we agree William M. Connolley 21:30, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Right, Rasool. Sure, datasets change all the time, and I can't really get excercised over a change that was documented a week later, that seems NBD mostly. I am more concerned that McIntyre had to reverse-engineer the adjustment calculation because Hansen, a publicly funded scientist who has chosen to expound in a very public way, would not divulge it. And it turned out to have at least one error, of course. Thatcher131 21:39, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

My version of Acrobat complains that the file is corrupted. I'd like to read the article, so could you give it another try? Thanks - Raymond Arritt 23:50, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm. It works with Apple Preview, Adobe 8.0.0 (Apple) and ghostview. Are you sure your download was ok? --Stephan Schulz 23:54, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

It comes up OK in my Acrobat Reader v.7, but some of the text appears to overlap. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 23:58, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

This does not look like a problem with the PDF, but with the original scan or even like a misprint of the newspaper. If you zoom in enough, you can make out most of the text (starting with the last good line):"in scattering or absorbing radiation from the sun or the earth". To overcome this difficulty Rasool and Schneider turned on (?) one of the world's largest and fastest computer at the NASA Goddard Space Flight Centers' Institute for Space Studies at Columbia University. --Stephan Schulz 00:27, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

OK, tomorrow I'll try reading it on a real (i.e., non-Windows) computer. Raymond Arritt 00:47, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

I can mail you a GIF version (136k) if you want it now. --Stephan Schulz 00:51, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

It's a short article, and only a portion concerns Hansen. I'm about to step away from my computer, but maybe someone can simply transcribe the relevant portions? Stephan Schulz has already started us off. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 00:57, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

I had an extra minute so here are a couple of paragraphs:

• "The area of greatest uncertainty," that study concluded, is "our current lack of knowledge" of the optical properties of man-made dust "in scattering or absorbing radiation from the sun or the earth". To overcome this difficulty Rasool and Schneider turned on (?) one of the world's largest and fastest computer at the NASA Goddard Space Flight Centers' Institute for Space Studies at Columbia University.
• They also had available a computer program devoloped by Dr. James Hansen there to study the optical properties of the clouds of Venus. They applied the same program to make what Rasool called the first sphisticated calculations of fuel dust's sunlight scattering properties.

The latter paragraph is the only mention of Hansen. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 01:27, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for providing the Washington Post article. Did anyone else notice the following (in column 3)? Where did it come from? I know newspapers are lousy sources, but I don't believe the reporter just made it up.

A new ice age would flood the world's coastal cities ...

Does this mean that both global warming and global cooling will flood our cities? Q Science 05:23, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

My guess is it's just your typical scientifically-illiterate reporter. At the last glacial maximum sea level was 120 meters lower than present. Raymond Arritt 05:29, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Jim Hansen's earlier prediction of coming Ice Age

Interesting opinion piece in the Investor's Business Daily based on a story in the Washington Post in 1971. [3] Recently, global warming alarmists have tried to distance themselves from the prediction of a coming Ice Age back in the 70s. But it is hard to distance your camp when one of the leaders of the current alarmism was a leader of the Ice Age alarmism. I think this deserves to be in the article.RonCram 13:23, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

• Wake up Ron, read the section above William M. Connolley 13:51, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
• (edit conflict)Read the section just before this and weep. This tells you something about the quality of IBD as a source on science, not about Hansen. A simple sanity check also helps: In 1971 Hansen was a 30 year old postdoc. That is an achievement by itself (I never managed that ;-), but it also makes it rather unlikely that he was a leader of anything. --Stephan Schulz 13:56, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

The Real Deal: Usufruct & the Gorilla

This heading is just silly. It's not explained in the text and will mean nothing to most readers. Iceage77 18:58, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

It is, though, the title Hansen choose to discuss this matter under. Hansens chief involvement in this is his response, which is the document we've linked to. You might have chosen a different header, but you're not Hansen William M. Connolley 21:15, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

I think that using for the title of the section Hansen's response to his critics violates NPOV and Undue Weight (not to mention being incomprehensible to 99% of our "Customers"). They are legitimate criticisms, even though he has offered a strong defense. Thatcher131 21:35, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Well maybe. I think the section needs to make clear that Hansen has never claimed anything sig over the 1934/98 matter - as far as I can tell he isn't changing his mind now. When it swapped from 34 to 98 sometime after 2001 no-one seemed to care much, or even notice William M. Connolley 21:54, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

No, that's a problem with the popular press et al. Since this is his bio, coverage of this issue should be limited. More thorough coverage in Instrumental temperature record or Global warming controversies or some such. Thatcher131 22:24, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

The Investor's Business Daily provides more information on the funding behind the so-called 'lonely "NASA whistleblower" standing up to the mighty U.S. government' in The Soros Threat To Democracy. Asteriks 13:49, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

We might give that more weight if IBD had been more careful in reporting on Hansen's 1971 work (see above). ·:· Will Beback ·:· 16:26, 26 September 2007 (UTC)