José Miguel Alemán

Lead Belly or Leadbelly?

Ok, for once and for all: is it Lead Belly or Leadbelly? -- Face 18:53, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Who ever said it was "Lead Belly"? If they did I missed it. Leadbelly has about 6 times as many ghits. Leadbelly vs. Lead belly. Mak (talk) 18:58, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, this article is named Leadbelly, the infobox lists him as Leadbelly, but the rest of the article calls him Lead Belly. Most people and AMG may call him Leadbelly, but his grave says Lead Belly. -- Face 19:26, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

He called himself Lead Belly. The Lead Belly Foundation insist on the name Lead Belly, not Leadbelly. As with all nicknames I suppose spelling is open to interpretation. 26-09-06. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.2.152.143 (talk • contribs) at 14:35, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Ok, shouldn't we just call him "Lead Belly"? Even though most people call him "Leadbelly"? I will mail the Lead Belly foundation and ask their opinion about this. -- Face 12:09, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry for my slow reaction, but it seems that the e-mail adres (mailto:leadbellymusic@leadbelly.org) on the Lead Belly Foundation isn't reachable anymore. Still, I think it should be "Lead Belly", because of his grave and because the foundation calls him that way. Is there more evidence? -- Face 19:21, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't know. "Leadbelly" is much more common, and used on the albums an whatnot. -- Cúchullain ^t/c 22:02, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

According to the liner notes of the various Smithsonian/Folkways CDs, the proper spelling is "Lead Belly". The original Folkways releases also had this spelling, and all subsequent Smithsonian/Folkways CDs also feature this spelling. I don't personally think that an encyclopedia should boast an incorrect spelling for an article's title simply because of public perception (should an article on Marven Gardens be titled Marvin Gardens simply because of Monopoly boards?). With this in mind, shouldn't the article be retitled in recognition of this? -- Kevinloy 01:29, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Looking at my albums, you're correct. We definitely should move it.--Cúchullain ^t/c 19:45, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

I've moved the page and changed the spelling from "Leadbelly" to "Lead Belly" throughout (except in reference to the film title), as well as adding a passage about the debate. I don't have time to check for double redirects, though. Can somebody else handle at least part of that? (If so, thanks in advance) Kevinloy 17:57, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Agree. I have gone through the listed songs and all redirects and changed what I can. That was some work. I hope it is worth it, cause I am still not entirely sure about this. The foundation insists on Lead Belly, and his grave calls him that. But isn't Elvis' grave misspelled too? Some of his records call him Lead Belly, but the majority says Leadbelly. But ofcourse, the majority isn't always right. -- Face 10:24, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! As far as his name goes, if it were only on his grave, I would understand your concern. However, here is the compiler's note from one of the Smithsonian/Folkways CDs, which should (hopefully) put this to rest -- "Lead Belly's name has been frequently spelled Leadbelly over the years. We have spelled it Lead Belly at the request of the Ledbetter family. This is the way Lead Belly wanted it. Moses Asch spelled it that way on his earliest recordings of Lead Belly." -- Kevinloy 16:06, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I think I've taken care of the rest of the redirects. I think this is definitely the appropriate title; despite it seeming less known on the internet (for now, anyway), "Lead Belly" is preferred by his estate as well as major releasers of his works, and apparently the artist himself. Either way, the spellings are only slight variations that aren't different enough to really matter. This is similar to Sacagawea/Sacajawea; until a few years ago the latter spelling was best known, though it is clearly an error, and now almost all authorities on her use the "g" spelling.--Cúchullain ^t/c 07:36, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Whew, I'm glad that it's clear now. Thanks for the good help guys! Oh btw the category Leadbelly songs still needs to be moved. -- Face 13:03, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

"Where Did You Sleep Last Night"

I think "Where Did You Sleep Last Night" was originally written by Lead Belly. Can anyone else confirm or deny this?

Did you consider checking the article Where Did You Sleep Last Night? It addresses this question.

It is good form to sign your contributions, by concluding it with four tildes ~~~~. -- Geo Swan 23:37, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Date of Birth

The paragraph of date of birth should list his date of birth as the first sentance rather then the last. A reader wants to know the birth date before they want to know the debate (which the article says is now setteled).

The New Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians gives Lead Belly's DOB as January 21, 1885. I'm not sure if there is or can be an accepted DOB for him, but I usually look to this source for the "official line" on such matters.Makemi 06:16, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Date of Birth #2

I'm not sure why Wiki keeps listing Lead Belly's birthday as January 21, 1885, but according to the Lead Belly Foundation [1] he was born on January 20, 1889. His tombstone says 1889, so 1885 is definitely wrong. See photo here: http://www.deltablues.net/lead3.jpg

Because the New Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians lists it as January 21, 1885, and I usually take the New Grove as authoritative. The fact is, probably Leadbelly didn't even know his own birthdate, so it wouldn't be surprising if his tombstone was wrong. I have no idea how to judge which is correct, since neither source gives its source for the birthdate, that I know of. Mak (talk) 00:36, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

One problem, though; leadbelly.lanl.gov/leadbelly.html and The Leadbelly Web list his birthdate as January 29, 1885, and others list it as the year 1888 or 1889. So apparently his birthdate is a matter of debate, not on the accuracy of your source. Like Mak said, Leadbelly himself probably didn't know when he was born. --Kschwerdt514 20:30, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

I can settle this, once and for all, beyond any shadow of a doubt. "Hudy" Ledbetter, son of Wes and Sallie Ledbetter, is listed in the 1900 census in Harrison County, Texas. That census lists Hudy Ledbetter as being born on January, 1888, and being twelve years old. The 1910 census has Hudy Ledbetter married to Aletha. His age is listed as 22 which is consistent with 1888. The census of 1930, which finds him as an inmate,lists him as 42 (1888). There is no reason to doubt three census takers. The myths that Huddie helped create in order to spice up the details of a life that required no spicing up because he lived quite a life, may have created confusion about his birthdate. Confusion in remembering one's age or in calculating one's age occurred more frequently before ID's and Driver's Licenses. What evidence do you know of that suggests other years? What evidence does anyone offer that Leadbelly didn't know his own birthday. Who actually has evidence of a birthday differing from the date Leadbelly gave on his World War II draft registration? I am Daviddaniel37 (Family Quest), genealogist in Los Angeles. User_talk:Daviddaniel37

Impressive geneological information about Lead Belly, but I think it falls under WP:NOR (no original research) because there is not an outside publication cited -- true, you are citing primary documents, but there is no easy way for the average person to find the census documents - see the NOR guidelines. I would suggest publishing the information in a journal and then it could be cited from Wikipedia. There is a lot of what you wrote, for instance about people not forgetting their birthdates, which sounds like opinions. Also, by the way, to sign comments you can use the 10th button in the edit menu, the one that looks like a signature. I also re-edited to make it clearer that the February date is his parents' wedding date, as someone else already misinterpreted that in an edit.--Larrybob 19:53, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Photos

It would be better to include a picture of Lead Belly in which he is holding a guitar. This, not the accordion, was his primary instrument. -- takthemud, 8:10, 29 Jan 2006 (UTC)

I wholeheartedly agree. Surely there is something in the public domain more appropriate? OldDaedalus 02:50, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Just so you know, I have changed the picture of Lead Belly from the one of him holding his accordion to the one of him holding his guitar. --Kschwerdt514 20:26, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

O.K. Allen Pardon

This, like many aspects of Lead Belly's legend, is disputed; there is no evidence to prove that Allen ever listened to Leadbelly's song. The "pardon" was in fact in response to a petition for release on good behavior, as budgetary restraints due to the Depression were causing prisons to look for ways to cut costs. I'd be more than happy to rework it, but I won't have opportunity to do so for a few weeks. If someone else wanted to fix it up in the meantime, that'd sure be swell.  :) OldDaedalus 08:44, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Midnight Special

Im going to remove the part which says Leadbelly wrote Midnight Special, it cites a Lomax book which is probably just a load of bs, (especially considering the fact that Sam Collins commertially recorded the song in 1929, years before Leadbelly was even recorded by Lomax) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.151.44.47 (talk) 10:42, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

I thought pete seeger's Incompleat Folksinger book mentiones this song, Likely, if anything, it was a song built onto by leadbelly since several of the verses detail life in the texas prison. --Dannygutters (talk · contribs) 18:40, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia's article on "Midnight Special" says that it was transcribed by sociologist Howard Odum in 1905. It was recorded commercially in 1927. Leadbelly did not write the words or the tune; he appears to have learned it while in Sugarland Prison in Texas. His version, with its own verses and variations, is the one that is best known, however, and he can be said to have created it. Mballen (talk) 11:33, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Russian Speakers

Does anyone speak russian? there's probably a lot of good info on the russian leadbelly page that could be translated. --[[::User:Dannygutters|Dannygutters]] ([[::User talk:Dannygutters|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Dannygutters|contribs]]) 16:18, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Australia Carr??

Was his step-sister really named Australia? That's an extraordinarily uncommon name, even in Australia, let alone the deep south of the USA in the 1880s, when Australia wasn't even a nation but a collection of separate British colonies. Is it just some idle vandalism? -- JackofOz (talk) 07:54, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

According to this, really her name. Hertz1888 (talk) 10:46, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, I never. Thank you. -- JackofOz (talk) 15:06, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

That passage highlights some of the difficulties of researching leadbelly (or any other black american blues musician from this era), when researching these books many of the key figures are overlooked, dead or uninterviewed. In fact the most recent bio they didn't even interview leadbelly's surviving family cousin in nashville(and executior of his estate). It's frustrating when you look at someone like Woody Guthrie, where he came from, where he was and what he was doing for most of his life. Thank goodness for Alan Lomax I guess. --[[::User:Dannygutters|Dannygutters]] ([[::User talk:Dannygutters|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Dannygutters|contribs]]) 19:06, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

According to Wolf and Lornell's Life and Legend of Leadbelly, Australia was Lead Belly's adopted older sister. He was his parents adored only biological child, whom they had when they were in their thirties. They managed to save enough to purchase their own farm and to give Huddy a good, stable childhood and even his own pony, but tragically, they lost their land when they had to raise money for his legal expenses. That is the story, but it should also be remembered that many other black families were losing their land right and left on one pretext or another during this period. Just as black families succeeded in playing by the rules and pulling themselves up by their bootstraps in approved fashion, there was a veritable rush among whites on their lives and property. The law was quick to throw blacks into jail and tended to look the other way when it came to protecting their rights, including property rights. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.39.129.178 (talk) 17:58, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

I added a small fact about Pearl Jam "Yellow Ledbetter"

{I know people have conflicting stories about the song. Even Eddie Vedder himself changes the story behind the meaning quite often.

However it is believed that the original explanation should be used.

That song was written as a combination story about his friend that lost his brother in the first gulf war and received a "Yellow" letter in the mail talking about the death. Later on while walking with his "Alternative" looking friend, his friend went to salute and American Flag on someones front porch, while they were on it. But due to his "Alternative" look, the people mocked/looked at him with disapproval and prejudice.

As well as a song about Lead Belly and his life in general. That indicates the cause of the mixture of the two words in the title of the song.

You are welcome to include what you wish, but I just wanted to at least mention the fact on the main site. -The Cyndicate} —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.108.188.154 (talk) 14:06, 5 October 2008 (UTC)