Bob Nystrom and Talk:Arab states of the Persian Gulf: Difference between pages
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{{Infobox Ice Hockey Player |
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[[Arab Gulf States]] seems like a much more common name from google.--[[User:Pharos|Pharos]] 04:23, 20 July 2006 (UTC) |
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| position = [[Winger (ice hockey)|right wing]] |
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| played_for = [[New York Islanders]] |
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| shot = Right |
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| height_ft = 6 |
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| height_in = 1 |
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| weight_lb = 200 |
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| nickname = Thor, Bobby Ny, Mr. Islander |
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| nationality = Sweden |
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| birth_date = {{Birth date and age|1952|10|10|mf=y}} |
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| birth_place = [[Stockholm]], [[Sweden|SWE]] |
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| draft = 33rd overall |
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| draft_year = 1972 |
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| draft_team = [[New York Islanders]] |
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| career_start = 1972 |
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| career_end = 1986 |
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}} |
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*i agree, [[Arab Gulf States]] seems more logical and simpler... <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Arab League|Arab League]] ([[User talk:Arab League|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Arab League|contribs]]) 03:06, 26 January 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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'''Thore Robert "Bob" Nystrom''' (born [[October 10]], [[1952]] in [[Stockholm, Sweden]]), is a retired professional [[ice hockey]] [[winger (ice hockey)|right-winger]]. He played for the [[New York Islanders]] from [[1972–73 NHL season|1972]] to [[1985–86 NHL season|1986]]. |
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== Requested move == |
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Born '''Thore Robert Nyström''' in [[Stockholm, Sweden]], Nystrom came to [[Canada]] as a four-year-old and starred for the BCJHL's [[Kamloops Rockets]] in 1969–70. He was an emotional sparkplug on the [[Calgary Centennials]] of the [[WCJHL]] for two seasons and was claimed 33rd overall by the Islanders in 1972. He played half a season for minor league affiliate [[New Haven Nighthawks]] of the American Hockey league before being promoted to the Islanders in March [[1973]]. |
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the {{{type|proposal}}}. <font color="red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</font> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. '' |
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{{{result|The result of the debate was}}} '''moved'''. [[User:Enochlau|enochlau]] ([[User talk:Enochlau|talk]]) 11:52, 25 November 2006 (UTC) |
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Nystrom's first full season with the Islanders was 1973–74, where he tallied 41 points as a rookie, garnering [[Calder Trophy]] consideration as Rookie of the Year (the award eventually went to teammate [[Denis Potvin]]). |
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[[Persian Gulf Arab States]] → [[Arab Gulf states]] — "Arab Gulf states" is the more correct term. It does NOT imply that the "Persian Gulf" is called the "Arab Gulf", but points to the Arab countries of the Persian Gulf. Google produces far more results for "Arab Gulf states" (88,000 vs 600). There are also several scholarly books by experts (eg Gregory Gause [http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0876091516]) who refer to them as "Arab Gulf states" (see [[Persian Gulf Arab States#Further reading]]) [[User:Jungli|Jungli]] 19:16, 19 November 2006 (UTC) |
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Over the next four seasons, as the Islander team improved, Nystrom became one of the steadiest two way forwards in the league. In each his first five seasons he collected over 20 goals, including a career high 30 in [[1977]]-78, while playing a strong checking and defensive game as well. He was also selected to play in the [[1977 NHL All-Star Game]]. |
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===Survey=== |
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== The Stanley Cups and "Mr. Islander" == |
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:''Add <tt><big><nowiki>* '''Support'''</nowiki></big></tt> or <tt><big><nowiki>* '''Oppose'''</nowiki></big></tt> on a new line followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>. |
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* '''Support''' as nominator. Compare the number of Google results produced by [http://www.google.com/search?q=%22arab%20gulf%20states%22 Arab Gulf states] (88,600), with the number for [http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Persian%20Gulf%20Arab%20States%22 Persian Gulf Arab States] (637) --[[User:Jungli|Jungli]] 19:21, 19 November 2006 (UTC) |
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Thore Robert Nystrom was born on October 10, 1952 in Stockholm Sweden, the second child of Thor and Gunnel Nystrom. His parents immigrated to Canada in 1957, when Bobby was five; eventually settling in a small pulp and paper town nestled at the foothills of the beautiful Canadian Rockies. Hinton, Alberta was a new town and the Nystrom family would have a great impact on it for many years to come. Bob’s Father Thor had left a secure position with the Stockholm Police Force to join his brother Stephen in Canada. When the Nystroms arrived in Hinton, they found that life was a struggle. “We built our own house" Bobby remembers. "My father worked at tearing down buildings and my mother picked strawberries. Bobby can recall helping his mom to bed at night because she was so tired. But the family persisted and, finally prospered. Bob's dad worked at North West Pulp and Power and was active in the new town’s minor sport programs, Bob’s mother worked at the Eaton’s store in the Valley Shopping Center. Bob and his sister Annika spent their childhood in Hinton and have many fond remembrances of small town life. Bobby believes growing up in a small town is something best appreciated when one gets older, and presumably wiser. He talks often about the outdoor hockey rinks, walks and parties in the bush and tells anyone who has returned from a holiday in Jasper National Park that they were near his hometown! |
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*'''Support''' per nom. [[User:Akhilleus|--Akhilleus]] ([[User talk:Akhilleus|talk]]) 03:41, 20 November 2006 (UTC) |
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===Discussion=== |
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In an Alberta town where winter temperatures regularly dipped below zero, cold-weather sports dominated the landscape. It was while growing up on Sunwapta Drive and wearing his Toronto Maple Leafs jersey that Bob first dreamed of playing in the NHL. He idolized the likes of Norm Ullman and Vic Hadfield and often pretended to be them on the outdoor rinks of Hinton. Bob loved hockey and all its trappings. After practicing or playing games, he could be seen helping Mr. Favro to scrape and flood the arena for the next day. A star defenceman for Hinton, Bob often looked like a man among boys. He would weave his way through the opponents’ line-up just to pass off to a team-mate on an open net. Bobby led his small town Midget team to their first ever Provincial final against Bentley in 1967. |
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:Why should this not be merged (under either name) into [[Cooperation Council for the Arab States of the Gulf]], as the simplest ''clearly correct'' name? — [[User:Arthur Rubin|Arthur Rubin]] | [[User_talk:Arthur_Rubin|(talk)]] 20:04, 20 November 2006 (UTC) |
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::Because the [[Cooperation Council for the Arab States of the Gulf]] (GCC) is an organization, where the [[Arab Gulf states]] is a cultural/geographical region. This is in the same way that the European Union is an organization, whereas Europe is a cultural/geographical region. The two are very different. --[[User:Jungli|Jungli]] 02:05, 21 November 2006 (UTC) |
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:::But they cover the same area. (And it's a political/geographical region, as it consists of countries, rather than a cultural/geographical region.) |
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:''Add any additional comments: |
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:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <font color="red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</font> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.</div><!-- Template:pollbottom --> |
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Already, at seventeen, he was the elite player in the Pembina Minor Hockey League and Bob and a friend decided to try Junior Hockey in British Columbia, as none was available near home. Bob developed an offensive style quickly and was moved to a forward position to help the Rockets anemic offence. Bob also had his first of many hockey fights one night while playing in the small town of Vernon. Some one broke his new $40.00 glasses and only earning 100.00 a month of which more than half went to room and board, the Vernon player was the first of many Nystrom conquests. Bob stayed two years with the B.C.J.H.L. Kamloops Rockets under the guidance of Coach Joe Tennant; before being selected by the grizzly and bombastic coach of the Tier I Calgary Centennials Scotty Munro. |
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== Geographical Specifications of PERSIAN GULF == |
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Geographical Specifications of PERSIAN GULF |
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In Calgary, Bob enjoyed playing alongside Jim McMasters, Danny Gare and future Ranger goaltender John Davidson. In his final year Bob totaled 52 points in 64 games and amassed over 170 penalty minutes. Despite these solid statistics, Coach Munro thought Bob would probably be a very successful minor league player but did not see a bright future in the National Hockey League. Bobby recalls "One game, he benched me; I mean he pulled me right off the ice and called me a coward. Well, one thing I never was is a coward. So the next day I went into Scotty's office and told him I wanted my skates and my paycheque because I was going home and going back to school." Munro called him a quitter and told Bobby that he would never go anywhere. Bob challenged him. I said “Give me a chance to play and I'll show you." So in the next twenty games Bob scored 15 goals and was the most dominant player on the Centennials. |
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Geographical Specifications of PERSIAN GULF The Persian Gulf is located in the southwest of the Asian Continent at 23 to 30 degrees northern latitude and 48 to 56 degrees longitude on the south side of the vast country of Iran, with a length of 1259 kilometer. Karoun, Zohreh, Jarrahi Mond, Dalki, Hendijan, Kol and Minab are the largest and the most watery rivers that flow into the PERSIAN GULF from the Iranian Plateau. The PERSIAN GULF is a projection of water from the Indian Ocean into a part of the Iranian Plateau. The whole northern part of it is covered by the Fars Province in Iran. T hus, if we were to presume that the sea did not have a name during history and those geographers and specialists were to select a name for this gulf, doubtlessly, they would find no better name than PERSIAN GULF, because Iran (PERSIA) is the largest country adjacent to this water body which possesses the longest coast. Besides, with a population of more than 70 million it is larger than any country located at the south margin of Fars. |
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'''http://pejman.azadi.googlepages.com/Iran''' |
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'''Historical, Geographical and Legal Validity of the Name: PERSIAN GULF''' |
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Geography, as the most ancient human knowledge is an applied science which has different aspects. It studies the reciprocal relation of man and nature and provides the results to the users in the form of documents in writing, books and maps. The names of features and phenomena including natural or man made ones have been considered by geographers for a long time, therefore similar features are distinguished by it. The name of a feature can not be observed on the land like the feature itself. Thus, by mentioning the case on maps, Atlases, and books, it will be protected during different eras as a part of historical, cultural identity and saved as mans heritage. For the same reason, any change, destruction, or alteration of the names registered in historical deeds and maps is like the destruction of ancient works and is considered as an improper action. Therefore, the names of geographical features profiting from a unique historical identity, should not be utilized as political instruments in reaching a political, tribal, and racial objective, or in any clash with national interests and other's values. This paper provides a short study of the historical background of the name PERSIAN GULF so that it might cast light on realities. |
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'''Persian Gulf's name in UN: http://www.un.org/Depts/Cartographic/map/profile/mideastr.pdf''' |
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''' |
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http://pejman.azadi.googlepages.com/thepersiangulf&itsname''' <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/87.247.189.210|87.247.189.210]] ([[User talk:87.247.189.210|talk]]) 11:07, 10 January 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned --> |
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::Okay, yes we know its called the Persian Gulf. But this is about the Arab states of the Persian Gulf. That's why it says '''Arab''' Gulf states and not '''Arabian''' Gulf states. --[[User:Jungli|Jungli]] 13:55, 10 January 2007 (UTC) |
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== Page move == |
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The page move was done unilaterally and without much discussion or a proper consensus. "Persian Gulf States" generates 138,000 google hits, while "Arab Gulf States" only generates 97,000 google hits, therefore "Persian Gulf States" is the more common name and should be used as the title in Wikipedia. I am reverting the the unilateral page move, if you want a page move, propose it and let there be a long discussion to reach a consensus. --[[User:Mardavich|Mardavich]] 11:21, 10 January 2007 (UTC) |
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:Google gives more hits for 'Persian Gulf states' than 'Arab Gulf states', so what?? They are different things. Persian Gulf states includes Iran, whereas Arab Gulf states only includes the Arab states of the Persian Gulf. However, there are far higher google hights for "Arab Gulf states" than "Persian Gulf Arab states" which is why this was selected. Plus, there are plenty academic works which refer to it as the "Arab Gulf states" (see Further Reading section of aricle). --[[User:Jungli|Jungli]] 13:53, 10 January 2007 (UTC) |
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:There was a formal process that led to the page move; it was not unilateral at all. Jungli is right about the difference between "Persian Gulf States" and "Arab Gulf States". BTW, this issue has nothing to do with the name of the Persian Gulf.--[[User:Pharos|Pharos]] 11:15, 8 February 2007 (UTC) |
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:No, Jungli is incorrect about that. Iran is not included in the Persian Gulf States, <ref> "Persian Gulf Sates: Country studies" by [[Federal Research Division]], [[Library of Congress]] (1995) </ref> {{reflist}} --[[User:Rayis|Rayis]] 00:21, 6 April 2007 (UTC) |
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:Page name is correct as it is "The Arab Gulf" states, not the Persian Gulf states! is Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, UAE, Qatar and Oman are Persian states or calling this sea as Persian Gulf? No! They are Arab States and calling this sea as the Arabian Gluf... that's why it makes logic in keeping the name of this page as it is and not politicalizing it as other pages related to this area. [[User:Ralhazzaa|Ralhazzaa]] 04:12, 24 May 2007 (UTC) |
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In the 1972 Amateur Draft, Bob was chosen 33rd overall by the expansion New York Islanders. "It was quite a bit different than the draft is today," says Bob of his draft experience. "I was actually framing houses out in Kamloops and didn't go home right afterwards because I stopped over with a couple of buddies. I was paged by my Dad and he told me I had been drafted by the New York Islanders and I said: 'Who?' The WHA Philadelphia Blazers also drafted Bob, but it was to be with the NHL and the Islanders that he chose to make his mark. His choice of the NHL was felt by many in the Hinton community and soon a junior ‘B’ hockey team The Hinton North-West Cardinals was formed. Unlike Bobby, young Hinton players no longer had to leave home and a legacy of future NHL players like Dave Scatchard, Dean McAmmond, Brian Pellerin, Mark Rooneem and others followed his example of hard work and determination at the Hinton Centennial Arena. |
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Nystrom played eleven games for the woeful expansion club in 1972-73 making his debut November 8th at the Chicago Stadium holding his assignment Dennis Hull pointless, but spent the majority of his time gaining valuable experience with the New Haven Nighthawks of the AHL. Bobby scored 21 goals as a rookie in 1973-74 and was a key part of the more competitive performance put forth by the Islanders. Bob came second in Islander Calder Trophy voting to, team-mate and eventual winner, Denis Potvin. |
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::the NPOV name of this article is "Arab states of Persian Gulf", when ever I have time, I will propose the move. --[[User:Pejman47|Pejman47]] 12:18, 25 May 2007 (UTC) |
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:::"Arab states of Persian Gulf"!! I think it is ponitless and obvious way to politicalize the article in total and start new Edit War here... Maybe someone else will come to say: "Arab states of Eastern part of the Persian Gulf of the Middle East of the Earth of the Solar System.....". We are here talking about the Arab Gulf States.. not about the Persian Gulf! There is already a Wikilinke to that sea within the article, if u mean geography should be mentioned. Cool down buddy [[User:Ralhazzaa|Ralhazzaa]] 05:12, 2 June 2007 (UTC) |
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::::That is the correct neutral name. Arab States of the Persian Gulf or Persian Gulf Arab States. I believe it should be moved. ''Arab Gulf'' can be intrepreted as ''Arabian Gulf'' and that is not neutral. Either way Persian Gulf states gets more hit. It seems the original people who moved the page by two votes casted did not consider this issue. --[[User:Ali doostzadeh|alidoostzadeh]] 17:48, 3 June 2007 (UTC) |
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:::::'''Oppose'''--[[User:Ahwaz|الأهواز | Hamid | Ahwaz]] 17:51, 3 June 2007 (UTC) |
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::::::It is not vote yet, so keep your opinions till then. --[[User:Ali doostzadeh|alidoostzadeh]] 19:00, 3 June 2007 (UTC) |
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:::::::Self-generated POVs are not ''neutral''! Sorry to say that your "suggestion" is not logical, basically. [[User:Ralhazzaa|Ralhazzaa]] 20:10, 3 June 2007 (UTC) |
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:::::::::There is no self-generating POV here and you will not be the only one voting on the issue. I can cite a good amount of books that use this term. It is fact. "Arab States" of the "Persian Gulf". And sure enough it has been used in academia. It is easy to find a great deal of books using this neutral name. All three "Arab Gulf States", "Persian Gulf Arab States" and "Arab States of the Persian Gulf" have been used in academia. The current name was changed by just two votes casted by two people. I was not part of that consensus as many other users weren't. So now it needs to be changed. So basically ''Sorry to say that your "opposition" is not logical, basically''. --[[User:Ali doostzadeh|alidoostzadeh]] 20:18, 3 June 2007 (UTC) |
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:this something else if u want to throw the table! But if u was talking with me regarding doing resource search, then I want to tell u that it is not here the palce for your original researches. Better you post it in your blog. [[User:Ralhazzaa|Ralhazzaa]] 06:38, 4 June 2007 (UTC) |
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::It is not a place for your original research either. For example claiming "Persian Gulf Arab States" or "Arab States of the Persian Gulf" are not used in academia is definitely OR by you. --[[User:Ali doostzadeh|alidoostzadeh]] 00:20, 5 June 2007 (UTC) |
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"Arab Gulf" States? Excuse me, but where is the "Arab Gulf"? Are we talking about the [[Arabian Sea]]? Or the [[Gulf of Oman]]? I cannot locate an "Arab Gulf" on any standard map. Please clarify. Thank You.--[[User:129.111.64.135|129.111.64.135]] 23:24, 3 June 2007 (UTC) |
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The Islanders, like Scotty Munro, were not always certain in the beginning either. “The Hammer of Thore’ they called him during those shaky expansion years; Nystrom may have been an awesome fighter and possessed a booming shot, but he had not earned a full roster spot. He couldn't skate at NHL speed and needed help with some mechanics. Islander General Manager Bill Torrey was friends with former world champion pairs skaters Otto and Maria Jelinek, Czechoslovakians who had joined the Ice Capades. “Otto was always joking with me that figure skaters were stronger and better skaters than hockey players." Torrey said. “If you watch them, you'll see their stride is in perfect balance; and the better the balance the better you're going to skate and the better you are going to be able to shoot a puck or handle a puck". Bill Torrey loved Nystrom's heart and told him he had a plan. He said " I want to bring you back early before training camp during the summer, and I want you to take some power skating lessons. The Islanders finally hired skating instructor Laura Stamm to work with Bob during the summer. Stamm contends that Bob would have made it on sheer determination alone, but with some stride and speed pointers and lots of practice he became the influential player he was. |
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:Then read the article and u will know.. or even ask someone wise enough if u don't trust here! (u r invited to be a real Wikipedian.. not only setting in [[San Antonio]] and post useless comments.. this is not a blog) [[User:Ralhazzaa|Ralhazzaa]] 06:38, 4 June 2007 (UTC) |
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::*Perhaps that's an abbreviation! The correct and/or complete name is Arabian Persian Gulf States or Arabian states of Persian Gulf.--[[User:Alborz Fallah|Alborz Fallah]] 06:41, 4 June 2007 (UTC) |
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:If you are really here to read and acquire knowledge, then you can find that what u r looking for [[Persian Gulf States|here]]. But if some readers are coming to here fight, just for the sake of fighting, then this is not the right place for them. All the Best, [[User:Ralhazzaa|Ralhazzaa]] 13:46, 4 June 2007 (UTC) |
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==Requested move== |
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The team became loved and followed closely by the Long Island community. The first captain Ed Westfall remembers that it was very gratifying to see the team and community come together. In the mid 1970's, Bobby and Yankee Bucky Dent were the matinee idols of the New York sport scene. He was the skater with the devious dark eyebrows, the windblown blond hair and the decisive masculinity that made him his team's own Marlboro man. On the ice the Islanders were beginning to gel also. ``There was a pattern to it all,'' Westfall said, referring to the step-by-step additions of draftees Billy Harris, Denis Potvin and Clark Gillies; coach Al Arbour and role players such as Andre St. Laurent, Bob Bourne, Dave Lewis. Long Islanders followed the team closely and most players became residents and active community members as well. |
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One of the most watched and celebrated love affairs in Long Island was that of Bob Nystrom and Michele. Bob remembers that in 1975, he and Billy Paultz of the New York Nets made a trip to the Roosevelt Field Mall to do a Dr. Pepper Clinic; teaching local youth how to shoot hoops and fire pucks, when Nystrom spotted a woman in the crowd. I thought she was beautiful, he said. She was turning to leave, so I approached her and asked if she would wait until after I was done with the clinic. She did, and 11 months later, they were married. |
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:''The following discussion is an archived discussion of the {{{type|proposal}}}. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</font> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. '' |
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Adding move tag per [[WP:RM]]. '''Please discuss. This is not necessarily a poll'''--[[User:Zereshk|Zereshk]] 00:27, 5 June 2007 (UTC) |
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In Bob's last year in the Western Hockey League they added a clause to the player's standard contract that gave Calgary " the exclusive right to appoint a mutually agreed upon person to be the sole representative and negotiator for the player" This legality was supposed to protect the players from irresponsible agents, but instead it opened the door for some agents approved by the league to take advantage. One of these agents was Richard Sorkin, who represented many Western league players and six New York Islanders, Bobby included. Sorkin started losing the players money in risky ventures and then tried to make it back through gambling at the Race Track. Sorkin lost $ 125,000 of Bob's money. Sorkin had been the best man at Bob and Michele's wedding. Richard Sorkin pleaded guilty to grand larceny and was convicted in 1978. This setback spoiled a promising season that had Bobby scoring over 20 goals before the Christmas break. |
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*The article specifically mentions "Arab Gulf" in capitalized letters, which is meant to imply that a body of water by that name exists, ''which does not.'' Please refrain from politicizing Wikipedia articles.--[[User:Zereshk|Zereshk]] 23:40, 4 June 2007 (UTC) |
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Nystrom, the most congenial of men off the ice, was the meanest of competitors on it. Bob surpassed the 40-point mark eight times, and often led the team in penalty minutes. In 157 career playoff games, Bob tallied 39 goals and 44 assists, and remains sixth on the all-time Islander playoff scoring list. Perhaps Bobby’s greatest contribution to the Islanders was his extraordinary talent at raising the level of his team-mates play through his own hard work. Scoring a goal, he assures, wasn't the only way a player could help his team. Fighting for control of the puck, delivering a hard check or simply riling the opposition, he notes, were equally successful methods to turn the tide of a game in your team's favor. Islander great Mike Bossy told me that Bob never took a moment of his NHL career for granted and played each game as if it was his last. |
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*I did various searches. I think the best term is "Arab States of the Persian Gulf". Persian Gulf States or Arab Gulf States or Arab Persian Gulf States and etc.. all seem a little POV'ish for the name. The term "Arab States of the Persian Gulf" has been used by hundreds of Academic books and it doesn't cause any sort of controversy. I'll mention some of these books: A) Countries of the World and Their Leaders - Page 851- United States Dept. of State. Office of Media Services - 1977 |
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A) (The Gulf War and the New World Order: International Relations of the Middle East - Page 308 by by Ismael, Tareq Y., Jacqueline S. Ismael ) 1994 C) The Empire of the Raj: India, Eastern Africa and the Middle East, 1858-1947 by Robert J. Blyth -2003 - Page 248 D) The Reckoning: Iraq and the legacy of Saddam Hussein - Page 360- by Mackey, Sandra - 2002 - E) The Persian Gulf in the Twentieth Century - Page 204-by John Marlowe - 1962 F) Handbook Of The Middle East by Michael G. Kort - 2002 |
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- Page 39 G) Soviet Naval Diplomacy - Page 375 by James M. McConnell, Bradford Dismukes - 1979 H)A Present of Things Past - Page 90 by Theodore Draper - 2002 I) Islamism and Secularism in North Africa - Page 191 by Douglas Ruedy - 1996 J) Diplomacy in the Middle East: The International Relations of Regional and Outside Powers - Page xxvii by Leon Carl Brown - 2004 K) Diplomacy of Power: Soviet Armed Forces as a Political Instrument - Page 501 by Stephen S. Kaplan - L) Towards the Conceptualisation of Maritime Development: Legal and Technical Aspects of a ... - Page 18 by Nuno Sergio Marques Antunes - 2003 M) .. There are many more. |
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--[[User:Ali doostzadeh|alidoostzadeh]] 03:31, 7 June 2007 (UTC) |
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* I agree that the best term is '''Arab States of the Persian Gulf''' for the same reasons mentioned above. [[User:Houshyar|Houshyar]] 04:11, 7 June 2007 (UTC) |
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::It is different, in difinition. The two articles talk about something different, that's why I oppose the merging. [[User:Ralhazzaa|Ralhazzaa]] 05:44, 7 June 2007 (UTC) |
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*"'''Arab states of Persian Gulf'''" is more informative ! If Arabic states themselves use this title as "Arab Gulf States", that's an internal terminology and there is no need to write a different Wiki-page for that: by merging or moving it with the international name, the informative mission of wikipedia is being fulfilled.--[[User:Alborz Fallah|Alborz Fallah]] 08:12, 7 June 2007 (UTC) |
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::::What is proposed by others is more disordered and politicalized title. If u don't like this tilte, then go and enjoy in the [[Persian Gulf States]] that should be including Iran and Iraq. This article here is entitled as used in the Arab world and widely used by other nations. By the way, what do u mean by ''"internal terminology"'' and where did u find this term in WP? Anyway, there is a [[Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names)|policy]] in WP related with this issue telling how we shold use the common name that some users here want to make it fuzzy. This policy requires to use the most common name of a person or thing that does not conflict with the names of other people or things. In this article, it is a name has a specisifc background of countries similar in economy, culture, traditions, state's system that is unique in that area. Even closest neighbouring countries admit this. Moreover, it is a common name and more conventional and widely used in Arab countries and many other nations. Including Iran and Iraq will take out the focus of this articel and the title will become without weight. If u want to politicalize this issue then go to mass-media, the UN, parliaments of the world, lobby groups...etc. but not in WP as it is [[Wp:not#Wikipedia_is_not_a_democracy|not Political System]]. regards, [[User:Ralhazzaa|Ralhazzaa]] 14:53, 7 June 2007 (UTC) |
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::::::The original name was something else. Two users (one of them a sock probably) can not change the name by themselves. Also the name suggests something else. Your reasoning is not sound. Of course wikipedia is not a democracy, but 2 people changing it without any consensus is dictatorial. The other terminologies brought so far are widely used as well, and they have no political overtone. --[[User:Ali doostzadeh|alidoostzadeh]] 16:26, 7 June 2007 (UTC) |
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:No politics?! OK! Then, drop it here and go develop the page [[Persian Gulf States]] if you want to project on Iran and Persian-related issues. [[User:Ralhazzaa|Ralhazzaa]] 17:11, 7 June 2007 (UTC) |
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:::::::That's a [[Misnomer]] to call the known entity of "Persian gulf" as "The Gulf" ! When we are speaking about the ''Arab states of the Persian gulf'' it's abbreviation may became "Arab states of the Gulf " and that to the "Arab Gulf states" : all of this is only using vulgar terminology . That's just as using the word '''''Xerox''''' as an alternative for '''''Photocopy''''': no problem is mentioning that in Wikipedia , but no new page ! --[[User:Alborz Fallah|Alborz Fallah]] 17:32, 7 June 2007 (UTC) |
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:Yeah! hope others can reach this point and not direct it to where it shouldn't go. Best, |
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[[User:Ralhazzaa|Ralhazzaa]] 17:38, 7 June 2007 (UTC) |
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:: If "where it shouldn't go " means not to merge , I'm advocating to move it , but to mention that (Arab Gulf states)is equivalent to Arabian states of Persian Gulf والسلام. --[[User:Alborz Fallah|Alborz Fallah]] 20:08, 7 June 2007 (UTC) |
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::::: This is the best solution actually. Since there is no POV here. It seems the page was moved from it's original name by two people. One of the people definitely had a POV (the one who proposed it). --[[User:Ali doostzadeh|alidoostzadeh]] 01:16, 8 June 2007 (UTC) |
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:I meant it should stay like this as it is not exactly what is included in the other article. The naming is not disputing as the article text is clarifying this with no doubts. Oppose to move as it against WP rules shown above. [[User:Ralhazzaa|Ralhazzaa]] 04:17, 8 June 2007 (UTC) |
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Note to alidoostzadeh: if the system here is not going with your POV, you can't easily charge the editors being sock-puppets. It is better for you not to be a conspiracy theorist but to assume good faith. While in the same time being a defender for IP/Pejman.Azadi double edits. [[User:Ralhazzaa|Ralhazzaa]] 04:21, 8 June 2007 (UTC) |
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:::The only one opposing name change right now is you. Furthermore, it is obvious the person who proposed the name change was not neutral and only one person voted for it. Unless there is a new consensus, the page should go back to it's original name.--[[User:Ali doostzadeh|alidoostzadeh]] 11:38, 8 June 2007 (UTC) |
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::::It is clear that some users are opposing your proposed changes as it is smells for political reasons. Those editors showed their opinion and go to build -not destroy- in other places through WP. Please save your efforts and don't try to go over WP rules shown above. [[User:Ralhazzaa|Ralhazzaa]] 07:49, 9 June 2007 (UTC) |
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:::::Actually I support Ali's decision to rename the page and I think you misunderstood me:we have to rename the page , but also to mention "Arab Gulf States" in the body of the text.--[[User:Alborz Fallah|Alborz Fallah]] 17:49, 9 June 2007 (UTC) |
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::::::It is much better for you to avoid dictating words through your comments in WP. Here, we are not receiving orders! Words like ''We have to'' doesn't work here and doesn't help your history profile too much. This encyclopedia is not owned by u or any Iranian body/organization/government to extend your POV here and keep ignoring the rules of WP shown above. If you want to violate the rules of WP, I'm not sure what will happen for your account, but there are legal process anyway u can read it in your Welcome message posted in your Personal Page. If your motivation in WP is to develop articles related to Iran, then go and develop [[Persian Gulf States]] that is widely different from here. Thanks for your understanding. [[User:Ralhazzaa|Ralhazzaa]] 07:16, 10 June 2007 (UTC) |
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*These 2 artickles are about the same thing, [[Persian Gulf States]] doesn't invlude [[Iran]] and [[Irak]] either. [[User:Kermanshahi|The Honorable Kermanshahi]] 09:18, 9 June 2007 (UTC) |
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* Move to '''Arab States of the Persian Gulf''' or merge with '''Persian Gulf States''' as the common English name of the region is Persian Gulf. [[User:AlexanderPar|AlexanderPar]] 07:48, 10 June 2007 (UTC) |
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:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the {{{type|proposal}}}. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.</div><!-- Template:pollbottom --> |
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"I was always very competitive so I always played hard, whether it was scoring or playing a defensive role," said Bobby. "Winning was always the bottom line." Throughout his rock-solid professional career, Bobby was reputed for his deft touch around the net and his bruising style of play. In all, he would reach the 20-goal plateau seven times and once had a 60 point season. Bobby scored a personal high of 30 goals in 1977-78 playing with Bob Bourne, but had 25 before Christmas. Many believe if personal circumstances that fall had been different, Bobby had a shot at a 50 goal season. But, perhaps somewhat unfairly, Bobby will always be associated with one goal, the tally that ignited the Islanders' Stanley Cup dynasty in the 1980s. But what a goal it was. After two frustrating playoff runs, the Islanders had an opportunity to clinch the Stanley Cup on home ice and wanted no part of returning to Philadelphia for Game seven. |
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''This article has been renamed {{{{{subst|}}}#if:Arab Gulf States|from [[Arab Gulf States]] to [[Arab states of the Persian Gulf]]}} as the result of a [[wikipedia:requested moves|move request]].'' --[[User:Stemonitis|Stemonitis]] 09:59, 10 June 2007 (UTC) |
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When Lorne Henning, Bobby and John Tonelli took the ice, it seemed as though it would be another checking shift. Instead, it would become a moment that would be etched in the annals of Long Island .Then; it was all about 7:11. That's when Bobby redirected home Tonelli's centering feed past Pete Peeters sending all Islander fans into delirium. Fittingly, two original Islanders, Nystrom and Lorne Henning figured in on the play. It was a beautiful goal. Not only did it remove the "jinxed" tag from the Islanders, it gave Long Island an identity-a championship one. "I'm glad we beat Philadelphia," said Nystrom, "because we feel we beat the best. They were the best team in the regular season and no one can call them losers. This was a win for all of Long Island and our fans." |
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== Iraq == |
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Bobby remembers that he “really didn't think it was going to go in. I had not scored a goal on my backhand all year. I had to get it high and, sure enough, it went high." "I really wasn't sure what I was going to do with the puck because it came soft enough where I could hold on to it and deke, but then I decided I'd just deflect it." |
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I'd like to talk about this, This article is about the Arab states of the Gulf not the [[GCC]] ([[Cooperation Council for the Arab States of the Persian Gulf]]) so here we are talking about a geography facts which is Iraq have a shore on the Golf so here by i added Iraq to the list. --{{User:Mjkubba/sig}} 00:40, 11 September 2008 (UTC) |
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::Okay but you've just added the phrase "And Iraq" at the end, and at the moment it doesn't form a proper sentence. [[User:Ordinary Person|Ordinary Person]] ([[User talk:Ordinary Person|talk]]) 02:54, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
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If you look at his stats sheet it tells you Bobby was more than just a one trick pony - he was the complete all-round player. Don Cherry, the C.B.C. analyst, agrees. He believed Bob was one of the best all round players of the 70's and 80's and always chose him as a game star. |
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By the 1984-85 season, his vigorous style of play had finally caught up with him. His body paid the price for those Herculean efforts. Bob suffered two retina tears in his left eye when accidentally high-sticked by teammate Gerald Diduck during a game of "keep-away" following a Sunday afternoon practice on January 5, 1986. The injury required surgery on January 15, 1986, and ended his glorious playing career. He did, however, play one more game on April 5, 1986, when he was put into the starting lineup against New Jersey and left the ice after the opening face off, enabling him to finish his career with a milestone 900 games played. Bob remembers “My lens was dislocated and the specialists told me that to continue playing might dislocate it completely". “They thought it best for me to retire". Although Long Island is a far cry from traditional hockey hotbeds, local junior hockey programs have created some talented players of late. One of the most successful junior programs has been the Junior Islanders, created and led by Bobby Nystrom and teammate Gerry Hart. Christopher Higgins, Mike Komisarek and Eric Nystrom (drafted 10th overall in 2002 by Calgary) are all products of this program, which operates out of Hart's vast ice skating and sports complex, The Rinx in Hauppauge. This legacy of Long Island players is one thing Bobby and Gerry Hart are very proud of. |
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Bobby served as the Isles' assistant coach under Terry Simpson for two years which proved to be a difficult adjustment. Bob was distraught that players were not going full out on every second of each shift during the course of game. The Islanders allowed him to play one last game and achieve the 900 games played mark. Nystrom had played in 899 regular season games at the time. Islander's coach, Al Arbour, who considered Nystrom one of his favorites, approached Nystrom prior to the Islander's last home game of the 1985-86 season on April 5, and asked him if he would like to dress one more game, in order to make it an even 900 games played; more importantly, it would give Islander fans a chance to say a proper good-bye. Nystrom accepted, and was added to the starting lineup. He took the opening face-off to a surprised and appreciative home crowd's roar. After skating around for about five seconds, he returned to the bench, never to play again.But when he reminisces about his playing career, there is no trace of bitterness, only fond recollections of great triumphs and glorious Cup victories. "The one thing I remember from the playoffs was everyone playing really hard," Nystrom said. "Everyone had to step up their game. If you wanted to advance, the team really had to get it to together." At his 2002 induction into the Hockey Hall of Fame, Clark Gillies said |
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Nine-hundred games after his NHL career was born during the infamous expansion year of 1972 making him a true "original Islander," his name and famous No. 23 were retired to the Nassau Coliseum rafters in what was an emotional retirement ceremony. Emotional for Bobby, his family, the team, and his legions of fans. Coach Al Arbour said it best at the ceremony in 1995; “ As a player we all remember him for scoring that overtime goal, but let’s not forget what he represented; dedication, grit, heart and leadership. That was Bobby Nystrom and that is what won us three more Stanley Cups.” Bob was also honored in his hometown, Hinton, Alberta, on their Sports Wall of Fame. He was the first athlete to be so honored. In 2003, both the Long Island and US Jewish Sports Halls of Fame inducted Bobby into their ranks. |
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After his coaching stint, Bob served the Islander organization in many capacities. He was named Islanders Director of Community Relations in 1991 and remained in that position through 1991-92 and followed that by becoming the Islanders Director of Amateur Hockey Development and Alumni Relations in 1992 and remained in that position until 1997. Bob remains the Islanders Director of Corporate Relations and is, of course, ‘Mr. Islander’ to everyone. |
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== Later years == |
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Nystrom continued to be an effective winger through the Islander's [[Stanley Cup]] run, but by [[1985]], his rugged, aggressive play began to wear his body down. He played only 36 games in 1984–85, managing only two goals, though he matched that total in only ten postseason games. |
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After playing sparingly through the first three months of the [[1985–86 season]], Nystrom was accidentally struck in the eye by a high stick from teammate [[Gerald Diduck]] in practice on [[January 5]]. Unable to play due to the severity of the injury (he suffered two tears of the retina, which later required surgery), he was thought to have retired, and he served as an assistant coach for the remainder of the season. |
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Nystrom had played in 899 regular season games at the time. Islander's coach, [[Al Arbour]], who considered Nystrom one of his favorites, approached Nystrom prior to the Islander's last home game of the 1985–86 season on April 5, and asked him if he would like to dress one more game, in order to make it an even 900 games played; more importantly, it would give Islander fans a chance to say a proper good-bye. Nystrom accepted, and was added to the starting lineup. He took the opening face-off to a surprised and appreciative home crowd's roar. After skating around for about five seconds, he returned to the bench, never to play again. |
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Nystrom remained an assistant coach the next two seasons, then served as radio analyst for the Islanders. He was named Islanders Director of Corporate Affairs in 1988 and remained in that position through 1988–89 season, when he took a position as Islanders Director of Special Projects in 1989 and remained in that position through 1990–91 season. He was named Islanders Director of Community Relations in 1991 and Director of Amateur Hockey Development & Alumni Relations in 1992. In 1997 he added the title Director of Corporate Relations remained in that position through 2001–02 season. |
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The Islanders retired his No. 23 on April 1, 1995, although three other players had worn it after Nystrom. |
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Nystrom has a son [[Eric Nystrom|Eric]], who was drafted by the Calgary Flames as the number ten pick in the first round of the 2002 NHL Draft. |
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In 2003, he was inducted into the [[Nassau County Sports Hall of Fame]]. |
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== Bob Nystrom Award == |
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In [[1991]], the Islanders began presenting the Bob Nystrom Award to the player on the team "who best exemplifies leadership, hustle and dedication." Past winners: |
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*[[1991]] - [[Brent Sutter]] |
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*[[1992]] - [[Ray Ferraro]] |
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*[[1993]] - [[Benoit Hogue]] |
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*[[1994]] - [[Steve Thomas (ice hockey)|Steve Thomas]] |
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*[[1996]] - [[Dan Plante]] |
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*[[1997]] - [[Claude Lapointe]] |
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*[[1998]] - [[Rich Pilon]] |
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*[[1999]] - [[Claude Lapointe]] |
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*[[2000]] - [[Claude Lapointe]] |
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*[[2001]] - [[Dave Scatchard]] |
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*[[2002]] - [[Steve Webb (hockey player)|Steve Webb]] |
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*[[2003]] - [[Jason Blake (ice hockey)|Jason Blake]], [[Garth Snow]] |
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*[[2004]] - [[Adrian Aucoin]] |
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*[[2005]] - No winner due to NHL lockout |
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*[[2006]] - [[Kevin Colley]] |
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*[[2007]] - [[Trent Hunter]] |
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*[[2008]] - [[Richard Park]] |
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==Career Statistics== |
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<pre> |
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Regular Season |
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Season Team Lge GP G A Pts PIM |
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1972-73 New York Islanders NHL 11 1 1 2 10 |
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1973-74 New York Islanders NHL 77 21 20 41 118 |
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1974-75 New York Islanders NHL 76 27 28 55 122 |
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1975-76 New York Islanders NHL 80 23 25 48 106 |
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1976-77 New York Islanders NHL 80 29 27 56 91 |
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1977-78 New York Islanders NHL 80 30 29 59 94 |
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1978-79 New York Islanders NHL 78 19 20 39 113 |
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1979-80 New York Islanders NHL 67 21 18 39 94 |
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1980-81 New York Islanders NHL 79 14 30 44 145 |
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1981-82 New York Islanders NHL 74 22 25 47 103 |
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1982-83 New York Islanders NHL 74 10 20 30 98 |
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1983-84 New York Islanders NHL 74 15 29 44 80 |
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1984-85 New York Islanders NHL 36 2 5 7 58 |
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1985-86 New York Islanders NHL 14 1 1 2 16 |
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NHL Totals 900 235 278 513 1248</pre> |
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==External links== |
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*{{hockeydb|4021}} |
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*[http://www.bobnystrom.net Bob Nystrom fan site] |
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{{DEFAULTSORT:Nystrom, Bob}} |
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[[Category:1952 births]] |
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[[Category:Calgary Centennials alumni]] |
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[[Category:Canadian expatriate sportspeople in the United States]] |
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[[Category:Canadian ice hockey left wingers]] |
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[[Category:Converts to Judaism]] |
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[[Category:Ice hockey personnel from British Columbia]] |
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[[Category:Jewish ice hockey players]] |
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[[Category:National Hockey League players with retired numbers]] |
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[[Category:New York Islanders players]] |
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[[Category:Stanley Cup champions]] |
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[[Category:Superstars competitors]] |
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[[Category:Swedish immigrants to Canada]] |
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[[Category:Living people]] |
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Revision as of 02:54, 10 October 2008
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Title
Arab Gulf States seems like a much more common name from google.--Pharos 04:23, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
- i agree, Arab Gulf States seems more logical and simpler... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arab League (talk • contribs) 03:06, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
Requested move
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the debate was moved. enochlau (talk) 11:52, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
Persian Gulf Arab States → Arab Gulf states — "Arab Gulf states" is the more correct term. It does NOT imply that the "Persian Gulf" is called the "Arab Gulf", but points to the Arab countries of the Persian Gulf. Google produces far more results for "Arab Gulf states" (88,000 vs 600). There are also several scholarly books by experts (eg Gregory Gause [1]) who refer to them as "Arab Gulf states" (see Persian Gulf Arab States#Further reading) Jungli 19:16, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
Survey
- Add * '''Support''' or * '''Oppose''' on a new line followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~.
- Support as nominator. Compare the number of Google results produced by Arab Gulf states (88,600), with the number for Persian Gulf Arab States (637) --Jungli 19:21, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
- Support per nom. --Akhilleus (talk) 03:41, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
Discussion
- Why should this not be merged (under either name) into Cooperation Council for the Arab States of the Gulf, as the simplest clearly correct name? — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 20:04, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
- Because the Cooperation Council for the Arab States of the Gulf (GCC) is an organization, where the Arab Gulf states is a cultural/geographical region. This is in the same way that the European Union is an organization, whereas Europe is a cultural/geographical region. The two are very different. --Jungli 02:05, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
- But they cover the same area. (And it's a political/geographical region, as it consists of countries, rather than a cultural/geographical region.)
- Because the Cooperation Council for the Arab States of the Gulf (GCC) is an organization, where the Arab Gulf states is a cultural/geographical region. This is in the same way that the European Union is an organization, whereas Europe is a cultural/geographical region. The two are very different. --Jungli 02:05, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
- Add any additional comments:
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Geographical Specifications of PERSIAN GULF
Geographical Specifications of PERSIAN GULF Geographical Specifications of PERSIAN GULF The Persian Gulf is located in the southwest of the Asian Continent at 23 to 30 degrees northern latitude and 48 to 56 degrees longitude on the south side of the vast country of Iran, with a length of 1259 kilometer. Karoun, Zohreh, Jarrahi Mond, Dalki, Hendijan, Kol and Minab are the largest and the most watery rivers that flow into the PERSIAN GULF from the Iranian Plateau. The PERSIAN GULF is a projection of water from the Indian Ocean into a part of the Iranian Plateau. The whole northern part of it is covered by the Fars Province in Iran. T hus, if we were to presume that the sea did not have a name during history and those geographers and specialists were to select a name for this gulf, doubtlessly, they would find no better name than PERSIAN GULF, because Iran (PERSIA) is the largest country adjacent to this water body which possesses the longest coast. Besides, with a population of more than 70 million it is larger than any country located at the south margin of Fars.
http://pejman.azadi.googlepages.com/Iran
Historical, Geographical and Legal Validity of the Name: PERSIAN GULF
Geography, as the most ancient human knowledge is an applied science which has different aspects. It studies the reciprocal relation of man and nature and provides the results to the users in the form of documents in writing, books and maps. The names of features and phenomena including natural or man made ones have been considered by geographers for a long time, therefore similar features are distinguished by it. The name of a feature can not be observed on the land like the feature itself. Thus, by mentioning the case on maps, Atlases, and books, it will be protected during different eras as a part of historical, cultural identity and saved as mans heritage. For the same reason, any change, destruction, or alteration of the names registered in historical deeds and maps is like the destruction of ancient works and is considered as an improper action. Therefore, the names of geographical features profiting from a unique historical identity, should not be utilized as political instruments in reaching a political, tribal, and racial objective, or in any clash with national interests and other's values. This paper provides a short study of the historical background of the name PERSIAN GULF so that it might cast light on realities.
Persian Gulf's name in UN: http://www.un.org/Depts/Cartographic/map/profile/mideastr.pdf
http://pejman.azadi.googlepages.com/thepersiangulf&itsname —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.247.189.210 (talk) 11:07, 10 January 2007 (UTC).
- Okay, yes we know its called the Persian Gulf. But this is about the Arab states of the Persian Gulf. That's why it says Arab Gulf states and not Arabian Gulf states. --Jungli 13:55, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
Page move
The page move was done unilaterally and without much discussion or a proper consensus. "Persian Gulf States" generates 138,000 google hits, while "Arab Gulf States" only generates 97,000 google hits, therefore "Persian Gulf States" is the more common name and should be used as the title in Wikipedia. I am reverting the the unilateral page move, if you want a page move, propose it and let there be a long discussion to reach a consensus. --Mardavich 11:21, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
- Google gives more hits for 'Persian Gulf states' than 'Arab Gulf states', so what?? They are different things. Persian Gulf states includes Iran, whereas Arab Gulf states only includes the Arab states of the Persian Gulf. However, there are far higher google hights for "Arab Gulf states" than "Persian Gulf Arab states" which is why this was selected. Plus, there are plenty academic works which refer to it as the "Arab Gulf states" (see Further Reading section of aricle). --Jungli 13:53, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
- There was a formal process that led to the page move; it was not unilateral at all. Jungli is right about the difference between "Persian Gulf States" and "Arab Gulf States". BTW, this issue has nothing to do with the name of the Persian Gulf.--Pharos 11:15, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
- No, Jungli is incorrect about that. Iran is not included in the Persian Gulf States, [1]
- ^ "Persian Gulf Sates: Country studies" by Federal Research Division, Library of Congress (1995)
--Rayis 00:21, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
- Page name is correct as it is "The Arab Gulf" states, not the Persian Gulf states! is Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, UAE, Qatar and Oman are Persian states or calling this sea as Persian Gulf? No! They are Arab States and calling this sea as the Arabian Gluf... that's why it makes logic in keeping the name of this page as it is and not politicalizing it as other pages related to this area. Ralhazzaa 04:12, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
- the NPOV name of this article is "Arab states of Persian Gulf", when ever I have time, I will propose the move. --Pejman47 12:18, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
- "Arab states of Persian Gulf"!! I think it is ponitless and obvious way to politicalize the article in total and start new Edit War here... Maybe someone else will come to say: "Arab states of Eastern part of the Persian Gulf of the Middle East of the Earth of the Solar System.....". We are here talking about the Arab Gulf States.. not about the Persian Gulf! There is already a Wikilinke to that sea within the article, if u mean geography should be mentioned. Cool down buddy Ralhazzaa 05:12, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
- That is the correct neutral name. Arab States of the Persian Gulf or Persian Gulf Arab States. I believe it should be moved. Arab Gulf can be intrepreted as Arabian Gulf and that is not neutral. Either way Persian Gulf states gets more hit. It seems the original people who moved the page by two votes casted did not consider this issue. --alidoostzadeh 17:48, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
- Oppose--الأهواز | Hamid | Ahwaz 17:51, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
- It is not vote yet, so keep your opinions till then. --alidoostzadeh 19:00, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
- Self-generated POVs are not neutral! Sorry to say that your "suggestion" is not logical, basically. Ralhazzaa 20:10, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
- There is no self-generating POV here and you will not be the only one voting on the issue. I can cite a good amount of books that use this term. It is fact. "Arab States" of the "Persian Gulf". And sure enough it has been used in academia. It is easy to find a great deal of books using this neutral name. All three "Arab Gulf States", "Persian Gulf Arab States" and "Arab States of the Persian Gulf" have been used in academia. The current name was changed by just two votes casted by two people. I was not part of that consensus as many other users weren't. So now it needs to be changed. So basically Sorry to say that your "opposition" is not logical, basically. --alidoostzadeh 20:18, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
- Self-generated POVs are not neutral! Sorry to say that your "suggestion" is not logical, basically. Ralhazzaa 20:10, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
- It is not vote yet, so keep your opinions till then. --alidoostzadeh 19:00, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
- Oppose--الأهواز | Hamid | Ahwaz 17:51, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
- That is the correct neutral name. Arab States of the Persian Gulf or Persian Gulf Arab States. I believe it should be moved. Arab Gulf can be intrepreted as Arabian Gulf and that is not neutral. Either way Persian Gulf states gets more hit. It seems the original people who moved the page by two votes casted did not consider this issue. --alidoostzadeh 17:48, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
- "Arab states of Persian Gulf"!! I think it is ponitless and obvious way to politicalize the article in total and start new Edit War here... Maybe someone else will come to say: "Arab states of Eastern part of the Persian Gulf of the Middle East of the Earth of the Solar System.....". We are here talking about the Arab Gulf States.. not about the Persian Gulf! There is already a Wikilinke to that sea within the article, if u mean geography should be mentioned. Cool down buddy Ralhazzaa 05:12, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
- the NPOV name of this article is "Arab states of Persian Gulf", when ever I have time, I will propose the move. --Pejman47 12:18, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
- this something else if u want to throw the table! But if u was talking with me regarding doing resource search, then I want to tell u that it is not here the palce for your original researches. Better you post it in your blog. Ralhazzaa 06:38, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
- It is not a place for your original research either. For example claiming "Persian Gulf Arab States" or "Arab States of the Persian Gulf" are not used in academia is definitely OR by you. --alidoostzadeh 00:20, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
"Arab Gulf" States? Excuse me, but where is the "Arab Gulf"? Are we talking about the Arabian Sea? Or the Gulf of Oman? I cannot locate an "Arab Gulf" on any standard map. Please clarify. Thank You.--129.111.64.135 23:24, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
- Then read the article and u will know.. or even ask someone wise enough if u don't trust here! (u r invited to be a real Wikipedian.. not only setting in San Antonio and post useless comments.. this is not a blog) Ralhazzaa 06:38, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
- Perhaps that's an abbreviation! The correct and/or complete name is Arabian Persian Gulf States or Arabian states of Persian Gulf.--Alborz Fallah 06:41, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
- If you are really here to read and acquire knowledge, then you can find that what u r looking for here. But if some readers are coming to here fight, just for the sake of fighting, then this is not the right place for them. All the Best, Ralhazzaa 13:46, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
Requested move
- The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Adding move tag per WP:RM. Please discuss. This is not necessarily a poll--Zereshk 00:27, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
- The article specifically mentions "Arab Gulf" in capitalized letters, which is meant to imply that a body of water by that name exists, which does not. Please refrain from politicizing Wikipedia articles.--Zereshk 23:40, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
- I did various searches. I think the best term is "Arab States of the Persian Gulf". Persian Gulf States or Arab Gulf States or Arab Persian Gulf States and etc.. all seem a little POV'ish for the name. The term "Arab States of the Persian Gulf" has been used by hundreds of Academic books and it doesn't cause any sort of controversy. I'll mention some of these books: A) Countries of the World and Their Leaders - Page 851- United States Dept. of State. Office of Media Services - 1977
A) (The Gulf War and the New World Order: International Relations of the Middle East - Page 308 by by Ismael, Tareq Y., Jacqueline S. Ismael ) 1994 C) The Empire of the Raj: India, Eastern Africa and the Middle East, 1858-1947 by Robert J. Blyth -2003 - Page 248 D) The Reckoning: Iraq and the legacy of Saddam Hussein - Page 360- by Mackey, Sandra - 2002 - E) The Persian Gulf in the Twentieth Century - Page 204-by John Marlowe - 1962 F) Handbook Of The Middle East by Michael G. Kort - 2002 - Page 39 G) Soviet Naval Diplomacy - Page 375 by James M. McConnell, Bradford Dismukes - 1979 H)A Present of Things Past - Page 90 by Theodore Draper - 2002 I) Islamism and Secularism in North Africa - Page 191 by Douglas Ruedy - 1996 J) Diplomacy in the Middle East: The International Relations of Regional and Outside Powers - Page xxvii by Leon Carl Brown - 2004 K) Diplomacy of Power: Soviet Armed Forces as a Political Instrument - Page 501 by Stephen S. Kaplan - L) Towards the Conceptualisation of Maritime Development: Legal and Technical Aspects of a ... - Page 18 by Nuno Sergio Marques Antunes - 2003 M) .. There are many more.
--alidoostzadeh 03:31, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
- I agree that the best term is Arab States of the Persian Gulf for the same reasons mentioned above. Houshyar 04:11, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
- It is different, in difinition. The two articles talk about something different, that's why I oppose the merging. Ralhazzaa 05:44, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
- "Arab states of Persian Gulf" is more informative ! If Arabic states themselves use this title as "Arab Gulf States", that's an internal terminology and there is no need to write a different Wiki-page for that: by merging or moving it with the international name, the informative mission of wikipedia is being fulfilled.--Alborz Fallah 08:12, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
- What is proposed by others is more disordered and politicalized title. If u don't like this tilte, then go and enjoy in the Persian Gulf States that should be including Iran and Iraq. This article here is entitled as used in the Arab world and widely used by other nations. By the way, what do u mean by "internal terminology" and where did u find this term in WP? Anyway, there is a policy in WP related with this issue telling how we shold use the common name that some users here want to make it fuzzy. This policy requires to use the most common name of a person or thing that does not conflict with the names of other people or things. In this article, it is a name has a specisifc background of countries similar in economy, culture, traditions, state's system that is unique in that area. Even closest neighbouring countries admit this. Moreover, it is a common name and more conventional and widely used in Arab countries and many other nations. Including Iran and Iraq will take out the focus of this articel and the title will become without weight. If u want to politicalize this issue then go to mass-media, the UN, parliaments of the world, lobby groups...etc. but not in WP as it is not Political System. regards, Ralhazzaa 14:53, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
- The original name was something else. Two users (one of them a sock probably) can not change the name by themselves. Also the name suggests something else. Your reasoning is not sound. Of course wikipedia is not a democracy, but 2 people changing it without any consensus is dictatorial. The other terminologies brought so far are widely used as well, and they have no political overtone. --alidoostzadeh 16:26, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
- What is proposed by others is more disordered and politicalized title. If u don't like this tilte, then go and enjoy in the Persian Gulf States that should be including Iran and Iraq. This article here is entitled as used in the Arab world and widely used by other nations. By the way, what do u mean by "internal terminology" and where did u find this term in WP? Anyway, there is a policy in WP related with this issue telling how we shold use the common name that some users here want to make it fuzzy. This policy requires to use the most common name of a person or thing that does not conflict with the names of other people or things. In this article, it is a name has a specisifc background of countries similar in economy, culture, traditions, state's system that is unique in that area. Even closest neighbouring countries admit this. Moreover, it is a common name and more conventional and widely used in Arab countries and many other nations. Including Iran and Iraq will take out the focus of this articel and the title will become without weight. If u want to politicalize this issue then go to mass-media, the UN, parliaments of the world, lobby groups...etc. but not in WP as it is not Political System. regards, Ralhazzaa 14:53, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
- No politics?! OK! Then, drop it here and go develop the page Persian Gulf States if you want to project on Iran and Persian-related issues. Ralhazzaa 17:11, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
- That's a Misnomer to call the known entity of "Persian gulf" as "The Gulf" ! When we are speaking about the Arab states of the Persian gulf it's abbreviation may became "Arab states of the Gulf " and that to the "Arab Gulf states" : all of this is only using vulgar terminology . That's just as using the word Xerox as an alternative for Photocopy: no problem is mentioning that in Wikipedia , but no new page ! --Alborz Fallah 17:32, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
- Yeah! hope others can reach this point and not direct it to where it shouldn't go. Best,
Ralhazzaa 17:38, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
- If "where it shouldn't go " means not to merge , I'm advocating to move it , but to mention that (Arab Gulf states)is equivalent to Arabian states of Persian Gulf والسلام. --Alborz Fallah 20:08, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
- This is the best solution actually. Since there is no POV here. It seems the page was moved from it's original name by two people. One of the people definitely had a POV (the one who proposed it). --alidoostzadeh 01:16, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
- If "where it shouldn't go " means not to merge , I'm advocating to move it , but to mention that (Arab Gulf states)is equivalent to Arabian states of Persian Gulf والسلام. --Alborz Fallah 20:08, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
- I meant it should stay like this as it is not exactly what is included in the other article. The naming is not disputing as the article text is clarifying this with no doubts. Oppose to move as it against WP rules shown above. Ralhazzaa 04:17, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
Note to alidoostzadeh: if the system here is not going with your POV, you can't easily charge the editors being sock-puppets. It is better for you not to be a conspiracy theorist but to assume good faith. While in the same time being a defender for IP/Pejman.Azadi double edits. Ralhazzaa 04:21, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
- The only one opposing name change right now is you. Furthermore, it is obvious the person who proposed the name change was not neutral and only one person voted for it. Unless there is a new consensus, the page should go back to it's original name.--alidoostzadeh 11:38, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
- It is clear that some users are opposing your proposed changes as it is smells for political reasons. Those editors showed their opinion and go to build -not destroy- in other places through WP. Please save your efforts and don't try to go over WP rules shown above. Ralhazzaa 07:49, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
- Actually I support Ali's decision to rename the page and I think you misunderstood me:we have to rename the page , but also to mention "Arab Gulf States" in the body of the text.--Alborz Fallah 17:49, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
- It is much better for you to avoid dictating words through your comments in WP. Here, we are not receiving orders! Words like We have to doesn't work here and doesn't help your history profile too much. This encyclopedia is not owned by u or any Iranian body/organization/government to extend your POV here and keep ignoring the rules of WP shown above. If you want to violate the rules of WP, I'm not sure what will happen for your account, but there are legal process anyway u can read it in your Welcome message posted in your Personal Page. If your motivation in WP is to develop articles related to Iran, then go and develop Persian Gulf States that is widely different from here. Thanks for your understanding. Ralhazzaa 07:16, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
- Actually I support Ali's decision to rename the page and I think you misunderstood me:we have to rename the page , but also to mention "Arab Gulf States" in the body of the text.--Alborz Fallah 17:49, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
- It is clear that some users are opposing your proposed changes as it is smells for political reasons. Those editors showed their opinion and go to build -not destroy- in other places through WP. Please save your efforts and don't try to go over WP rules shown above. Ralhazzaa 07:49, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
- These 2 artickles are about the same thing, Persian Gulf States doesn't invlude Iran and Irak either. The Honorable Kermanshahi 09:18, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
- Move to Arab States of the Persian Gulf or merge with Persian Gulf States as the common English name of the region is Persian Gulf. AlexanderPar 07:48, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
This article has been renamed from Arab Gulf States to Arab states of the Persian Gulf as the result of a move request. --Stemonitis 09:59, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
Iraq
I'd like to talk about this, This article is about the Arab states of the Gulf not the GCC (Cooperation Council for the Arab States of the Persian Gulf) so here we are talking about a geography facts which is Iraq have a shore on the Golf so here by i added Iraq to the list. --MJKubba|talk|contributions 00:40, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
- Okay but you've just added the phrase "And Iraq" at the end, and at the moment it doesn't form a proper sentence. Ordinary Person (talk) 02:54, 10 October 2008 (UTC)