Talk:Blaise Pascal

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There are two many images, and it's making this page crowded. I say we remove the stamp image, and develop a caption for the staue image. -- Removed this passage: "Following an accident in 1654 at the Neuilly bridge where the horses plunged over the parapet but the carriage miraculously survived, Pascal abandoned mathematics and physics for philosophy and theology." Source? Pascal's turn toward religion is commonly attributed to his mystical experience of Nov. 23, 1654. Mark K. Jensen 09:47, Jan 25, 2005 (UTC)

Found a source placing the accident in question 15 days before Pascal's mystical experience. [1] Mark K. Jensen 01:25, Jan 26, 2005 (UTC)

Add a quotations section?

Would it be appropriate to add a quotations section, or does this deserve a separate article, a list perhaps? Pascal has many famous quotes, and Wikipedia would benefit from the added content. Forgive me if such a list exists already, I am still learning the ropes around here. Joy Schoenberger 08:51 19 August, 2005 (EST)

Yeah, he has some awesome quotes. I listed a bunch in the Pensees article just to keep the Pascal article as lean as possible when I was working on it. There's also the wikiquote link at the bottom. David Bergan 16:15, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Other info to add

Chris, just some extra things about Pascal that I read in Will Durant's excellent account of him in The Story of Civilization. I don't have the book with me, so I'm just jotting down things from memory. When I get to the book, I'll give you more specific info and sources. But to whatever extent you know of these things, you can add them in.

• Part of Pascal's religious conversion had to do with his niece's miraculous recovery from a fistula in her eye. Seven doctors examined the fistula and pronounced the situation hopeless. Then his niece was taken to a monestary where a group of nuns took a supposed thorn from the crown of Christ and each kissed it in turn. They touched the fistula with the thorn and it was healed. However, it wasn't the nuns that proclaimed it a miracle, but the seven doctors. Pascal did something (like the coat-note) to always remember the occasion.
• Provincial Letters: From a literary point of view I remember that Durant quoted two or three notable people saying that these letters were among the finest things ever written in the French language. I'll obviously have to dig these up before we can include them.
• Pascal's skepticism was largely a result of reading Montaigne. Thus when he gets to his existential-like thoughts in Pensees, he largely distrusts reason as being able to lead one to God. Ergo, the Wager. I wouldn't consider Pensees an "attack on skepticism" as it is written in the article, since they are laden with distrust in reason (ie. #72 [2]). But the Wager arises as the only common-sense answer once a person is skeptical toward both reason and revelation.
• Durant had another quote of someone saying that Pascal's picture of humans being between infinities (in the linked reference above) was "the greatest prose written in the French language."
• Descartes was a friend of Pascal's father. One of Blaise's prodigal works in mathematics was noticed by Descartes and wrongly attributed by the great mathematician to his father.
• Attitude: Durant describes Pascal as being always conflicted with pain and never smiling. He had frequent migraines, a grumpy temperment and sour disposition.
• Autopsy: Durant details what the doctors found in the autopsy... rotted intestines, and other things that lead to the stomach cancer theory. But also they found two depressions in his brain the size of fingers... which might have explained the headaches.

That's all I can think of right now. I'll flesh these out when I get to my book. David Bergan 18:04, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

• Thanks for mentioning the Miracle of the Holy Thorn; I had completely neglected that which was a pretty important moment.
• I mentioned the influence of Montaigne on Pascal's questioning on human certainty; I also incorporated the story about Descartes, which I've seen in a couple places, as evidence of his precociousness.
• I've actually been looking for a good source to which I could attribute the claim that Pascal's was the greatest prose author; the French literature article makes a claim like this but it's unsourced. I've added something like that to the article, but it would be nice to get a quote especially from someone famous. Christopher Parham (talk) 21:17, 2005 July 30 (UTC)

Comment on Pascal's Wager

Edit [3] by 65.151.179.217, removed the sentences: Indeed, Pascal's Wager is only respectable after the Excalibur of his mind shreds the foundations of reason. Out of this context, the Wager smells like a tactic to scare children to go to Sunday School. I wrote the sentences, so obviously I kind of like them. I think they encapsulate what most people think when they first hear of Pascal's Wager ("childish scare tactic for Sunday School") and lets the reader know that it really isn't fair to judge the Wager outside of Pascal's immensely skeptical context. So I'd like to hear the reasons from the other side and see what people feel about this edit. David Bergan 14:28, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

I had heard of Pascal's Wager that he did not expect to "scare" people into belief in God, but rather challenged them to live for a year as if they believed, in the hope that if God does exist, he would during that year, or by the end of it, instill the challenger with real faith. I thought the wager itself was just an introduction to this challeng. Has anyone else heard this? Joy Schoenberger 8:48, 19 August, 2005 (EST)

That would be great info, especially for the Pascal's Wager or Pensees article, too. Find us a source and we'll put it in somewhere. But no, I haven't heard of that before. David Bergan 16:17, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Many people mistakenly assume Pascal is arguing for belief in God, but belief, or faith, is not a simple matter of will. He is arguing, rather, that one should wager for the existence of God. Pascal, when discussing his Wager in Pensées, states an objection by an imaginary skeptic: "[I] am so made that I cannot believe. What, then, would you have me do?" He advises those who accept his Wager to act like a believer, and suppress those passions that are obstacles to becoming a believer:

• You would like to attain faith, and do not know the way; you would like to cure yourself of unbelief, and ask the remedy for it. Learn of those who have been bound like you, and who now stake all their possessions. These are people who know the way which you would follow, and who are cured of an ill of which you would be cured. Follow the way by which they began; by acting as if they believed, taking the holy water, having masses said, etc...
• But to show you that this leads you there, it is this which will lessen the passions, which are your stumbling-blocks.

I could not find any evidence the "one-year challenge" I spoke of. That's probably just a rumor. Pascal did expect faith to come with action, though, as evidenced by his own words. Joy Schoenberger 12:55, 19 August 2005 (EST)

Newton or Leibniz?

User 129.55.200.20 made the following edit [4]:

The work done by Fermat and Pascal into the calculus of probabilities laid important groundwork for Leibniz's formulation of the infinitesimal calculus.

to

The work done by Fermat and Pascal into the calculus of probabilities laid important groundwork for Isaac Newton's formulation of the infinitesimal calculus.

I believe that the phrase is correct using Leibniz, based on this web site. If someone has additional material pointing to Newton as being similarly influenced we can have them both up there. David Bergan 14:51, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Roulette

It seems funny to me that Pascal's invention of the roulette wheel isn't mentioned in the article. Or is it just a myth? If so, it is a common myth perpetuated by Wikipedia's article on Roulette and is at least worth a sentence.

• The sources I can find online suggest that his invention of the wheel is disputed; I at least wouldn't be comfortable adding it without some sort of more conclusive source. It wasn't mentioned by any of the sources I used to write the article, but if you find something that seems reliable please add it in. Christopher Parham (talk) 04:47, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Catholic Philosopher?

ErikNorvelle added the category of "Catholic Philosopher" to the article. I'm pretty sure Pascal wasn't a "Catholic Philosopher". His Provincial Letters were scathing toward the Jesuits, and he identified himself as a Jansenist, which the popes declared heresy. I removed the label, but feel free to present a case if you think I'm wrong. David Bergan 16:52, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Greetings David... obviously I'm treading on controversial ground. I think I'm right on this one, though. First, Pascal never dissociated himself from the Roman Catholic Church, nor was he ever excommunicated. Therefore, it can be said that he died a Catholic. His attacks against the Jesuits were an attack against *one* of many varieties of spirituality within the Catholic Church, not against Catholicism per se. I think the term "Catholic Philosopher" can be used in two senses. First, in the sense of being a philosopher who is defending Catholic Christianity in a direct way. Second, in the sense of being a Catholic who practices philosophy. Pascal is certainly a "Catholic Philosopher" in the second sense, even though he'll never be a "Doctor of the Church". Cheers... ErikNorvelle 18:53, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Hi Erik. Sorry if I seemed to come a little over the top on this. I can see where you're coming from. How are we going to determine whether or not the label Catholic Philosopher means "Defender of Catholic Philosophy" or "Philosopher who happened to (officially) be a Catholic"? Voltaire could probably even be considered a Catholic Philosopher in the second sense.

To me, "Catholic Philosopher" sounds like Thomas Aquinas, Augustine, or Erasmus... not a man who directly confronted (a significant aspect of) Catholicism in one of his greatest literary works. As you pointed out the confusion is due to the ambiguity of the label... so how should we resolve it? David Bergan 20:37, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Leibniz

Chris, I reinstated the part about Leibniz, because from what I've read Leibniz was the one who studied Pascal/Fermat and built his approach to the calculus on their work. Newton, I think, came to it more from Descartes's work, but I am less certain of that. David Bergan 14:21, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

• Okay, good call. Christopher Parham (talk) 20:29, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Article Direction

When searching for Pascal I was brought to an article about the Pascal physics unit. It seems obvious that the biography of a man should come before an article about a connotation in the mans honor, so I think it should direct here first.

Cultural depictions of Blaise Pascal

I've started an approach that may apply to Wikipedia's Core Biography articles: creating a branching list page based on in popular culture information. I started that last year while I raised Joan of Arc to featured article when I created Cultural depictions of Joan of Arc, which has become a featured list. Recently I also created Cultural depictions of Alexander the Great out of material that had been deleted from the biography article. Since cultural references sometimes get deleted without discussion, I'd like to suggest this approach as a model for the editors here. Regards, Durova 16:30, 18 October 2006 (UTC)